Religious Beliefs

catefrances

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Details... to the tee, that happen 48 hours after in real life ... doesn't sound like auto suggestion

The conscious nor subconscious could not know these details because they have not happened

unless
time is not what we think it is or it is indeed divine intervention

Then one may be looking at biaised memories and other psychological occurrences (which have 'proper' names but I can't think of them). Quantum mechanics might also offer an explanation. Even space-time tunnels, which, maybe in the very, very distant future, might become reality.

But if you wish to call it divine intervention even if there are numerous proven scientific causes for these 'interventions', that's fine if that's what makes you tick.

Seeking the truth as all of us

this can not be based in memory ...not in this lifetime

Quantum mechanics ....

just read that but where's the smilie that has something wiz over her head :?

Did not get that at all until I read this

'The Everett many-worlds interpretation, formulated in 1956, holds that all the possibilities described by quantum theory simultaneously occur in a multiverse composed of mostly independent parallel universes.'


If something happens in a parallel universe a period of time before....

that can be grasped in a different universe, say mine....

then that could explain it.

Time tunnel would have to mean the subconscious could the travel without the body

but that could explain it

parallel universe...time tunnels ....it all seems far fetched but I guess could be

and even with those possibilities ....

God can be the why

could parallel universes also explain deja vu?

gimmesometruth27

catefrances wrote:

last night i was sitting on the sofa nd the toddlermonster came to me and asked if she could sit on my lap. after she climbed up she snuggled into me and said, i love you. i often wonder if a small child can grasp this concept of love.. do they know what it is.. what it means.. or do they have this overwhelming sense of feeling that they just label love? i find small children fascinating... especially the one that lives in the room next to mine.

i think that a large majority of childen that age know only the good side of love and trust. they have not been burned by any of it yet. they see it as the good thing that it is. i envy their innocence and purity. it is a shame that we lose that as we grow up.

catefrances

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

last night i was sitting on the sofa nd the toddlermonster came to me and asked if she could sit on my lap. after she climbed up she snuggled into me and said, i love you. i often wonder if a small child can grasp this concept of love.. do they know what it is.. what it means.. or do they have this overwhelming sense of feeling that they just label love? i find small children fascinating... especially the one that lives in the room next to mine.

i think that a large majority of childen that age know only the good side of love and trust. they have not been burned by any of it yet. they see it as the good thing that it is. i envy their innocence and purity. it is a shame that we lose that as we grow up.

yeah i agree.. tis as if its beaten out of us as we get older so that we can conform to what they want of us.

ShimmyMommy

MrAbraham wrote:

You know, I typed a few posts about 'returning to innocence', a time before our ego, children are in that pure state, then things start to happen to them, and they start to lose that pure reality and fall into this matrix we all call life. When in reality, this world, is just a cover. And the TV, our leaders, the entire system is built to keep us away from the truth, the reality, all these machines, watching us, controlling. Turning us into machines. Bar coded and shipped out.

Children (like you know) are out of the matrix, they are in a true realm, a true state of mind or consciousness, but they are pulled out of it, by us, adults, our lies,our egos, or material creations, this world is all transitory. Here today, gone tomorrow.

Like the Rumi quote posted earlier, we create barriers/ego and we need to break them down, returning to the state of the true reality. Before the ego (like when we were children in a pure state of mind), but the greatest thing of all is when we are able to understand why we have those barriers/ego, not just being able to identify them, but to truly understand them and what created them. Connect the dots, see that algorithm of life. Then, touch the earth and 'awake' as the Buddha once said.

I do not deny my barriers/ego a place in my life. However, in having fully identified and understood my barriers/ego, acceptance of all things were revealed to me. I have learned I cannot deny the past's existence, no matter how much I analyze it. Even if an event happened 5 minutes ago, I cannot deny its existence...I can only accept it, or rectify it (which does not undo the event), and accept what happens next. It's the only way to move forward to enlightenment. The only reality I can only choose is how I act in the present moment. I am responsible for that because I accept my part, no matter how small it is.

"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." ~ Buddha

Strange that you omitted where I stated:
Whatever I choose to do, I have to accept my own actions. I am responsible for my life here, so I might as well use my energy to its fullest potential, regardless of who gave the energy initially.

To depend on the discovery of an IS to take ownership for my actions in my life is irresponsible.
“Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others.” ~ Buddha

To touch on catefrances's point...I feel we are beaten into submission...once we accept that, only then can we see a way to rise up and rectify ourselves. We have to accept it as it is. When we don't, we stay in submission through denial, and our very own denial then holds us down, long after the oppression leaves us.

BinauralJam

catefrances wrote:

God can be the why

could parallel universes also explain deja vu?[/quote]

how about a combo?

ShimmyMommy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i think that a large majority of children that age know only the good side of love and trust.

I was not one of those kids. Truth. A reality I have accepted, and cannot deny. Right now, I have chosen that I can be an adult who knows, and gives, the good side of love and trust.

catefrances

BinauralJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

could parallel universes also explain deja vu?

how about a combo?

im an atheist... God never enters the equation. so, no.

Idris

ShimmyMommy wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

You know, I typed a few posts about 'returning to innocence', a time before our ego, children are in that pure state, then things start to happen to them, and they start to lose that pure reality and fall into this matrix we all call life. When in reality, this world, is just a cover. And the TV, our leaders, the entire system is built to keep us away from the truth, the reality, all these machines, watching us, controlling. Turning us into machines. Bar coded and shipped out.

Children (like you know) are out of the matrix, they are in a true realm, a true state of mind or consciousness, but they are pulled out of it, by us, adults, our lies,our egos, or material creations, this world is all transitory. Here today, gone tomorrow.

Like the Rumi quote posted earlier, we create barriers/ego and we need to break them down, returning to the state of the true reality. Before the ego (like when we were children in a pure state of mind), but the greatest thing of all is when we are able to understand why we have those barriers/ego, not just being able to identify them, but to truly understand them and what created them. Connect the dots, see that algorithm of life. Then, touch the earth and 'awake' as the Buddha once said.

I do not deny my barriers/ego a place in my life. However, in having fully identified and understood my barriers/ego, acceptance of all things were revealed to me. I have learned I cannot deny the past's existence, no matter how much I analyze it. Even if an event happened 5 minutes ago, I cannot deny its existence...I can only accept it, or rectify it (which does not undo the event), and accept what happens next. It's the only way to move forward to enlightenment. The only reality I can only choose is how I act in the present moment. I am responsible for that because I accept my part, no matter how small it is.

"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." ~ Buddha

Strange that you omitted where I stated:
Whatever I choose to do, I have to accept my own actions. I am responsible for my life here, so I might as well use my energy to its fullest potential, regardless of who gave the energy initially.

To depend on the discovery of an IS to take ownership for my actions in my life is irresponsible.
“Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others.” ~ Buddha

To touch on catefrances's point...I feel we are beaten into submission...once we accept that, only then can we see a way to rise up and rectify ourselves. We have to accept it as it is. When we don't, we stay in submission through denial, and our very own denial then holds us down, long after the oppression leaves us.

Continue to enjoy your path to enlightenment, as it is said, Out beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing, there is a field, I'll meet you there.

.

arq

catefrances wrote:

im an atheist... God never enters the equation. so, no.

:shock: A W E S O M E!

The times a god enters into the equation is just as a troll or to close the case and leave ignorance live a little longer.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I love, therefore I am.

catefrances

arq wrote:

catefrances wrote:

im an atheist... God never enters the equation. so, no.

:shock: A W E S O M E!

The times a god enters into the equation is just as a troll or to close the case and leave ignorance live a little longer.

heres the thing.. we are entertained by tales of the greek Gods... so why is this singular God treated differently? why are the Greek myths just that, but the judeo-christian God is expected to be treated as something more. to me theyre all the same.. very very entertaining but not anything id swear to as fact. nor anything i could put my faith in as something other than a neat story. same goes for islam and buddhism. supernatural themes are filed away in the basement of the hoover building.

arq

catefrances wrote:

arq wrote:

catefrances wrote:

im an atheist... God never enters the equation. so, no.

:shock: A W E S O M E!

The times a god enters into the equation is just as a troll or to close the case and leave ignorance live a little longer.

heres the thing.. we are entertained by tales of the greek Gods... so why is this singular God treated differently? why are the Greek myths just that, but the judeo-christian God is expected to be treated as something more. to me theyre all the same.. very very entertaining but not anything id swear to as fact. nor anything i could put my faith in as something other than a neat story. same goes for islam and buddhism. supernatural themes are filed away in the basement of the hoover building.

The only difference between greek gods and the judeo-xtian-muslin god is that some myths are more fun to read than other; a lot of stories of the greek/roman gods are 100 times more useful as moral lessons than the boring and jealous and always pissed j-x-m god, but some people don't want to hear that

catefrances

arq wrote:

catefrances wrote:

arq wrote:

:shock: A W E S O M E!

The times a god enters into the equation is just as a troll or to close the case and leave ignorance live a little longer.

heres the thing.. we are entertained by tales of the greek Gods... so why is this singular God treated differently? why are the Greek myths just that, but the judeo-christian God is expected to be treated as something more. to me theyre all the same.. very very entertaining but not anything id swear to as fact. nor anything i could put my faith in as something other than a neat story. same goes for islam and buddhism. supernatural themes are filed away in the basement of the hoover building.

The only difference between greek gods and the judeo-xtian-muslin god is that some myths are more fun to read than other; a lot of stories of the greek/roman gods are 100 times more useful as moral lessons than the boring and jealous and always pissed j-x-m god, but some people don't want to hear that

when we go into war now we do so with the knowledge/hope/presumptive arrogance that God is on our side where in ancient greece, the Gods actively interfered.. waaaaaaaaay more fun. hey trojans!

arq

catefrances wrote:

when we go into war now we do so with the knowledge/hope/presumptive arrogance that God is on our side where in ancient greece, the Gods actively interfered.. waaaaaaaaay more fun. hey trojans!

pandora

People make war...not God

People share love .... through God

redrock

pandora wrote:

People make war...not God

I can google quotes too (and I'm sure one can google some that are completely contradictory but as the bible is a work of fiction, it doesn't really matter.)

"Exodus 17:16

He said, "For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation."

Numbers 31:3

So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.

But then, it would seem, God declared a 'just' war. Is that OK then? Of course, one could argue that god doesn't 'make' war as he doesn't participate in battle, but he can sure initiate it.

pandora wrote:

People share love .... through God

Some do. A lot don't need a god to love and share their love.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

People make war...not God

I can google quotes too (and I'm sure one can google some that are completely contradictory but as the bible is a work of fiction, it doesn't really matter.)

"Exodus 17:16

He said, "For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation."

Numbers 31:3

So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.

But then, it would seem, God declared a 'just' war. Is that OK then? Of course, one could argue that god doesn't 'make' war as he doesn't participate in battle, but he can sure initiate it.

pandora wrote:

People share love .... through God

Some do. A lot don't need a god to love and share their love.

very true, I meant some people ... of course not atheists

God, through a shared belief system brings many together in love...
a real plus for the religions of the world.

I was going to my belief that it is not God who makes wars it is people who hate...
believers or nonbelievers

that people have freedom of choice and some choose to hate others
and judge them unfairly for their beliefs.... non believers or believers

A sign of ignorance and lack of compassion

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

People make war...not God

I can google quotes too (and I'm sure one can google some that are completely contradictory but as the bible is a work of fiction, it doesn't really matter.)

"Exodus 17:16

He said, "For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation."

Numbers 31:3

So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.

But then, it would seem, God declared a 'just' war. Is that OK then? Of course, one could argue that god doesn't 'make' war as he doesn't participate in battle, but he can sure initiate it.

I was going to my belief that it is not God who makes wars it is people who hate...

...A sign of ignorance and lack of compassion

I think you have just completely overlooked that these two passages of the bible (whether one believes in the 'good book' or not, it is the source reference for god) that it is written that god DID initiate war.. 'the LORD will be at war...', with revenge... As you say, a lack of compassion.

Also, there are many reasons people go to war, not just hate.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

I was going to my belief that it is not God who makes wars it is people who hate...

...A sign of ignorance and lack of compassion

I think you have just completely overlooked that these two passages of the bible (whether one believes in the 'good book' or not, it is the source reference for god) that it is written that god DID initiate war.. 'the LORD will be at war...', with revenge... As you say, a lack of compassion.

Also, there are many reasons people go to war, not just hate.

I have never said I follow a religion nor believe in the bible as the word of God...
I believe in God

why can atheists not separate the two?
perhaps because they want to attack religion not God.

God is too abstract for them to attempt to discredit.
Too much unanswered unknown in the universes even for science.

of course there are many reasons people go to war.... not just religion

I can not prove He is there ..... you must have faith

you can not prove he is not there ..... nor can science

But we can love each other and not hate

God is Love .... God loves us all whether we believe or not

This is the concrete...it is Love for all not just those who believe as we do.

redrock

pandora wrote:

I have never said I follow a religion nor believe in the bible as the word of God...
I believe in God

why can atheists not separate the two?
perhaps because they want to attack religion not God.

God is too abstract for them to attempt to discredit...

Atheists can separate the two. Don't kid yourself, 'we' can understand too, you know. You said you believe in a christian god. The one and only source material that could show us there is a christian god (with his teachings and the afterlife) is this book. When the old testament (all about god, not jesus) was written, the christian 'worship' (for lack of better word) was not organised in a religion.

God is not an 'abstract' concept that atheists can't grasp. Really, god isn't even 'abstract'. On the contrary, god as you seem to refer to him in your posts has some very specific attributes (which seem to be just projections of one's desires/wants).

pandora wrote:

God is Love .... God loves us all whether we believe or not

This is the concrete...it is Love for all not just those who believe as we do.

Your desire for god's love is yours and yours only. Other theists may share this, but what you perceive as god's 'love' (a very human emotion) is totally irrelevant for atheists. There is nothing 'concrete' for those who do not believe all benevolent deity exists (as it would seem you do not wish to take the 'bad' with the good when it comes to god). Zero + zero still equals to zero. Again, quite patronising and preachy for atheists.