So will Walkerl be voted out come next election along with all those Senators ...
probably not, he had enough votes to win the first time when he said he was going to do stuff like this, Unless the governor's term in wisconsin is only two years, this will be long forgotten by everyone but the unions in about a month when the next big controversy hits the nation
Policemen cannot strike, we should take to the streets until they have every right every other union member has...people have different jobs and different unions should and do fall under different rules and this shouldn't be any different...different
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
So will Walkerl be voted out come next election along with all those Senators ...
probably not, he had enough votes to win the first time when he said he was going to do stuff like this, Unless the governor's term in wisconsin is only two years, this will be long forgotten by everyone but the unions in about a month when the next big controversy hits the nation
Policemen cannot strike, we should take to the streets until they have every right every other union member has...people have different jobs and different unions should and do fall under different rules and this shouldn't be any different...different
But he didn't campaign on these points there is no way he ran telling everybody that he had this up hi's sleeve ..
So will Walkerl be voted out come next election along with all those Senators ...
probably not, he had enough votes to win the first time when he said he was going to do stuff like this, Unless the governor's term in wisconsin is only two years, this will be long forgotten by everyone but the unions in about a month when the next big controversy hits the nation
Policemen cannot strike, we should take to the streets until they have every right every other union member has...people have different jobs and different unions should and do fall under different rules and this shouldn't be any different...different
But he didn't campaign on these points there is no way he ran telling everybody that he had this up hi's sleeve ..
Indiana's governor did the exact same thing Walker did but back in '05. He ended state employee collective bargaining when the state was $1.5B in the hole. Six years later the state has close to $1B in surplus and he is one of the most popular governors in the states history. The only difference was the lack of a media frenzy.
So basically Walker needs to pull the State out of debt. If he fails, his ass will be on the line ... although as mentioned by others, four years is a very long time for the collective memory of people.
There are recall efforts underway for 5 Democrat and 8 Republican Senators, as well as Gov. Walker. Recalls are very difficult to accomplish and can take a long time. I don't know if any will be a success, but they are definitely trying. Only 3 Repubs would be needed to overturn the vote. I think this situation isn't going to get any better anytime soon, as over 100,000 are expected to be at the Capitol tomorrow again protesting the bill. 1000's of farmers are expected as well, for a Tractorcade that's going to parade around the Capitol Square at 10a.m. Now that's a Wisconsin-style protest...
"In certain trying circumstances...profanity furnishes a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain
Any chance Gov. Walker would be willing to pay for his own car, home, or take a salary cut? Didn't think so.
Or maybe pay for any of his utilities? Still don't think so, but then again he's wealthy, not like those of us on the front lines actually facing over 100 high school students a day, getting dirty, sick, having to pay out of pocket for supplies, etc. As per history, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class suffers the most.
The WI governor's salary is $137,092, a car, and a home - according to the Council of State Governments, The Book of States 2010 (Table 4.3).
Here is a real look at a teacher's personal life, and sums up 98% of all teachers I know, it's interesting to see that the most accurate portrayal comes from a news satire.
So will Walkerl be voted out come next election along with all those Senators ...
probably not, he had enough votes to win the first time when he said he was going to do stuff like this, Unless the governor's term in wisconsin is only two years, this will be long forgotten by everyone but the unions in about a month when the next big controversy hits the nation
Policemen cannot strike, we should take to the streets until they have every right every other union member has...people have different jobs and different unions should and do fall under different rules and this shouldn't be any different...different
But he didn't campaign on these points there is no way he ran telling everybody that he had this up hi's sleeve ..
Yes he's doing what he said he would do when he ran. And the ones protesting are the people that didn't vote for him, big shocker there.
Any chance Gov. Walker would be willing to pay for his own car, home, or take a salary cut? Didn't think so.
Or maybe pay for any of his utilities? Still don't think so, but then again he's wealthy, not like those of us on the front lines actually facing over 100 high school students a day, getting dirty, sick, having to pay out of pocket for supplies, etc. As per history, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class suffers the most.
The WI governor's salary is $137,092, a car, and a home - according to the Council of State Governments, The Book of States 2010 (Table 4.3).
Here is a real look at a teacher's personal life, and sums up 98% of all teachers I know, it's interesting to see that the most accurate portrayal comes from a news satire.
Does any state governor pay for any of their utilities? I'm thinking not so whats your point?
And since your a teacher or claim to be one let me ask you a couple questions. Did you go to school to become a teacher? Or did you decide on becoming a teacher after things didn't work out and you had to make another career choice? Maybe you thought well I'll have the summers off and that will be great. Or well if I become a teacher I can retire at age 55 and have a sweet pension. I wish I had a job where I knew once I retire at a younger age then most that I will have a awesome pension and I barley had to pay anything to get it . I don't feel sorry for teachers in the state of Wisconsin. And yes I have family members that are teachers and some make over $76,000 a year. And they have the nerve to complain that everything is being taken away from them by Walker.
I have no problem with any union member being forced to contribute to their own retirement or health benefits package. To me that is just common sense. But taking away collective bargaining rights after never having campaigned on it is out of line.
I have no problem with any union member being forced to contribute to their own retirement or health benefits package. To me that is just common sense. But taking away collective bargaining rights after never having campaigned on it is out of line.
Yes I am a teacher who chose my profession. I'm proud of the job that I do every day and love going to work.
How dare you accuse teachers of "taking the summer off"! I have never taken a summer off in 15 years, and I have never met a teacher who has retired at the age of 55, but then again I teach in WV, where the average salary is barely $40K a year and I pay nearly 1/3 of my retirement with insurance that my doctors regularly tell me is worse than public assistance. The fact is the majority of teachers attend professional development, or continuing education courses, or additional training certification courses in the summer, many times on their own dime and as a requirement by their county. The teachers who "have summers off" are the shitty teachers who should be fired for not taking the responsibility of their profession as they should. I am not a fan of tenure after 3 years, with the mind set of milking the taxpayer's teet. Rather, I think teachers should be made to justify their merit on a regular basis. How that is accomplished is the national debate I have become part of along with other collegues of mine.
As for governors not paying bills, they all should, but since Walker ws the focus of the thread, he's the recepient of the remark.
And once collective bargaining is taken away from workers, then what rights do the workers have? That is not to say they need to demand more than they deserve, but at least maintain the cost of modern expenses. In WV teachers receive an across the board cost of living increase, but it doesn't take into account the vast economic differences within the state. I live in the most expensive part of the state, with the highest tax rate, highest growth in population, ect, and the "cost of living increase" does not cover the actual cost increase. But I moved to this area because it was the only area hiring teachers 15 years ago, and to this day still is one of the few that actually hires teachers on a regular basis.
So in conclusion to this, please don't accuse teachers of being over paid and underworked. When you compare average pay salaries between educators and other professionals there is tsill a major descrepancy between the pay rates. I am tired of people who have never set foot as a teacher in a classroom thinking they understand what it is we do. Because I now have to ask, what doyou do? I make a difference how about you?
Wow...to be making THAT much money!! I am in the wrong district!!
I also wish that the majority of my co-workers got into teaching because of summers off. I'd also like to find a job where we have 100% highly efficient, highly skilled, willing to put in more than 40 hours a week while being a public figure for the rest of their lives and not worry about burn out because they work 365 days a year.
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"Indiana's governor did the exact same thing Walker did but back in '05. He ended state employee collective bargaining when the state was $1.5B in the hole. Six years later the state has close to $1B in surplus and he is one of the most popular governors in the states history. The only difference was the lack of a media frenzy.
So basically Walker needs to pull the State out of debt. If he fails, his ass will be on the line ... although as mentioned by others, four years is a very long time for the collective memory of people.[/quote]"
Indiana's gov did the same without media frenzy because Indiana has a long history of not being supportive of unions and the state is filled with largely apathetic Republicans. People can praise the current gov. Daniels and hint at a prez run for him, but it should be noted that it's not too hard to run your agenda with a republican house and senate. Also, the state is a dump and scores lower on many indicators when compared to other states.
Wisconsin is definitely not Indiana and Walker will be gone in the next election.
I was watching Bill Maher friday night and he made a great point...
The Conservatives and Teabaggers in this country continue to preach that they want government to stay out of their lives and stop infringing on their rights. Am I correct? That is pretty much what I've been hearing.
Yet when a government figure such as Walker steps in and strips rights from hard working Americans, I hear no such protest from teabaggers or Republicans. I hear the opposite from them. Supoporting this act.
I bet if Obama tried to do this exact same thing, Walker and all other Republicans and teabaggers would be up in arms.
I didn't hear them complain too much when he extended the Bush era tax cuts.
Indiana's gov did the same without media frenzy because Indiana has a long history of not being supportive of unions and the state is filled with largely apathetic Republicans. People can praise the current gov. Daniels and hint at a prez run for him, but it should be noted that it's not too hard to run your agenda with a republican house and senate. Also, the state is a dump and scores lower on many indicators when compared to other states.
Wisconsin is definitely not Indiana and Walker will be gone in the next election.
The only part of Indiana that is a dump is the Gary region near Chicago. The rest of the state is quite pleasant.
And you are also right that it is easy to run your agenda and be successful with a republican house and senate ... although this is something that Obama had trouble figuring out when the cards were stacked in his favor.
The Conservatives and Teabaggers in this country continue to preach that they want government to stay out of their lives and stop infringing on their rights. Am I correct? That is pretty much what I've been hearing.
Yet when a government figure such as Walker steps in and strips rights from hard working Americans, I hear no such protest from teabaggers or Republicans. I hear the opposite from them. Supoporting this act.
Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
The problem is your news source. You are watching a left wing nutjob who wants to distort the true purpose of unions in this day and age. They are purely political in nature, and have no actual need these days. Eliminating unions can actually be viewed as reducing government involvement in our economy. Unions (and other liberal ideas) are responsible for the downfall of this country. The auto industry is a great example of how unions ruined an industry. True hardworking employees don't need a union, because if you were a true hardworking valuable employee, you can bargain for yourself. I guess you are referring to the hard working people of the auto industry who sit in the break room all day and can't be fired because the union, yet make six figures. Plus, most conservatives aren't in a union, so even if you viewed it as interfering, it doesn't affect conservatives. Lastly, don't forget about the rights of the many to not be unfairly taxed for a few.
I've tried to keep this short and only hit a few high points, I could write pages. I'm guessing that if you get your news from Bill Maher, your mind is not open to the short or long version. But if you don't understand why unions are bad, you're never going to understand the rest of the argument.
I am not spending my hard earned dollars on Wisconsin Tourism
I hope the band will put their money where Ed's mouth is... And choose a different locale as well...
Hopefully this gets worked out before ticket sales, because I would rather go to Canada if it doesn't
Yes, Canada. Actually, you would all rather come to Canada. You just don't know it yet ...
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But if you don't understand why unions are bad, you're never going to understand the rest of the argument.
I am on your side but unions aren't inherently bad.
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Indiana's gov did the same without media frenzy because Indiana has a long history of not being supportive of unions and the state is filled with largely apathetic Republicans. People can praise the current gov. Daniels and hint at a prez run for him, but it should be noted that it's not too hard to run your agenda with a republican house and senate. Also, the state is a dump and scores lower on many indicators when compared to other states.
Wisconsin is definitely not Indiana and Walker will be gone in the next election.
The only part of Indiana that is a dump is the Gary region near Chicago. The rest of the state is quite pleasant.
And you are also right that it is easy to run your agenda and be successful with a republican house and senate ... although this is something that Obama had trouble figuring out when the cards were stacked in his favor.
Maybe I should clarify "dump". Some areas might be pleasing to the eye, which Gary is not. But I mean dump, like literally dump your toxins and waste. It ranks at the bottom or near the bottom when compared to other states on many environmental rankings. It's interesting to have grown up there and now live somewhere just the opposite. And the whole argument that environmental regulations stifles business doesn't really fly, as the Northwest ranks high in environmental quality as well as being business friendly.
Indiana cities are so sprawling and car-centric, it's sad really. It's woven into the culture there. I do still love my home state, I just couldn't live there.
The Conservatives and Teabaggers in this country continue to preach that they want government to stay out of their lives and stop infringing on their rights. Am I correct? That is pretty much what I've been hearing.
Yet when a government figure such as Walker steps in and strips rights from hard working Americans, I hear no such protest from teabaggers or Republicans. I hear the opposite from them. Supoporting this act.
Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
The problem is your news source. You are watching a left wing nutjob who wants to distort the true purpose of unions in this day and age. They are purely political in nature, and have no actual need these days. Eliminating unions can actually be viewed as reducing government involvement in our economy. Unions (and other liberal ideas) are responsible for the downfall of this country. The auto industry is a great example of how unions ruined an industry. True hardworking employees don't need a union, because if you were a true hardworking valuable employee, you can bargain for yourself. I guess you are referring to the hard working people of the auto industry who sit in the break room all day and can't be fired because the union, yet make six figures. Plus, most conservatives aren't in a union, so even if you viewed it as interfering, it doesn't affect conservatives. Lastly, don't forget about the rights of the many to not be unfairly taxed for a few.
I've tried to keep this short and only hit a few high points, I could write pages. I'm guessing that if you get your news from Bill Maher, your mind is not open to the short or long version. But if you don't understand why unions are bad, you're never going to understand the rest of the argument.
It absolutely scares the shit out of me that anyone could construe Michele Bachmann as "trying to keep my freedom" (whatever the sam-fuck that means). She is an absolute lunatic.
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Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
Do you even know what the Boston Tea Party was about? The modern day Tea Party has nothing to do with the plight of the people who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation, not taxation as a whole.
Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
Do you even know what the Boston Tea Party was about? The modern day Tea Party has nothing to do with the plight of the people who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation, not taxation as a whole.
+1
Tea Party members are often also the same people who claim that this country was founded by Christians as a "Christian" nation. No doubt there were Christians or religious men integral to the founding of this nation, but spend a little time researching the origins, biographies and political philosophy of the founding band of brothers and you see its simply not true.
Anyway...good points. I'm sure there will be some self-righteous, pompous response about how I just don't know anything and I've been brainwashed by Keith Olbermann...that seems to be the general response from conservatives in this thread...
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Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
Do you even know what the Boston Tea Party was about? The modern day Tea Party has nothing to do with the plight of the people who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation, not taxation as a whole.
Reminds me of a guy on TV that was interviewed during a Tea Party demonstration... he said this was taxation without representation, because his views weren't being represented in Washington because the guy he voted for didn't win
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
Do you even know what the Boston Tea Party was about? The modern day Tea Party has nothing to do with the plight of the people who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation, not taxation as a whole.
+1
Tea Party members are often also the same people who claim that this country was founded by Christians as a "Christian" nation. No doubt there were Christians or religious men integral to the founding of this nation, but spend a little time researching the origins, biographies and political philosophy of the founding band of brothers and you see its simply not true.
Anyway...good points. I'm sure there will be some self-righteous, pompous response about how I just don't know anything and I've been brainwashed by Keith Olbermann...that seems to be the general response from conservatives in this thread...
That's a very narrow view of history, conveniently chosen to fit your argument. In general the tea partiers in 1773 reacted to growing government intervention in their lives, I guess you can't see the parallel? I guess you don’t want to?
You bring up the Christian aspect out of the blue; I guess you have an axe to grind? I'm not going to take the bait, all I'll say is that you are not helping your crediblity.
I am totally against growing government power, unless it directly benefits all citizens.
Way to be firm in your beliefs
Growing government to cater to a special interest group is bad, growing government for the betterment of all citizens is good. There is nothing "un-firm" about that statement. Maybe I should have said "all citizens", instead of "me", but an educated person would get the point. This is clear if you leave that quote in context about the patriot act. The funny thing is, you liberals keep nit picking the insignificant issues to avoid the significant issues. What you pulled from that paragraph is a perfect example.
Reminds me of a guy on TV that was interviewed during a Tea Party demonstration... he said this was taxation without representation, because his views weren't being represented in Washington because the guy he voted for didn't win
Wow, isn’t the daily show just great! Gotta love the FAKE news. I’m sure that one guy represented the entire movement. FYI, the majority of people's views are not being represented in Washington. Anyone remember healthcare being rammed down our throats without regard the will of the people?
I am totally against growing government power, unless it directly benefits all citizens.
Way to be firm in your beliefs
Growing government to cater to a special interest group is bad, growing government for the betterment of all citizens is good. There is nothing "un-firm" about that statement. Maybe I should have said "all citizens", instead of "me", but an educated person would get the point. This is clear if you leave that quote in context about the patriot act. The funny thing is, you liberals keep nit picking the insignificant issues to avoid the significant issues. What you pulled from that paragraph is a perfect example.
Reminds me of a guy on TV that was interviewed during a Tea Party demonstration... he said this was taxation without representation, because his views weren't being represented in Washington because the guy he voted for didn't win
Wow, isn’t the daily show just great! Gotta love the FAKE news. I’m sure that one guy represented the entire movement. FYI, the majority of people's views are not being represented in Washington. Anyone remember healthcare being rammed down our throats without regard the will of the people?
I'm not educated? I guess that means my alma mater owes me a good chunk of change for the money I paid them in fees to get the degree I have hanging on the wall. My apologies that my college education wasn't thorough enough to teach me that "me" = "everyone." If only I attended the same English classes you did, then I would know that micro and macro are synonyms. Unless of course your own education was so super duper fantastic that you are so smart that you actually do represent "all citizens" - which, you know, is perfectly fine because it's really quite easy to get all 300 million Americans to agree on what exactly benefits them.
Except... to go back to your quote in its context... you say the PATRIOT Act benefits all citizens... if that's the case, then shouldn't it be a popular act? I mean, it stands to reason that if the PATRIOT Act is a good thing for everyone, then everyone should love it - right? Except... they don't love it. It's fairly unpopular. There are even plenty of Democrats pissed off that Obama wanted to extend it.
Though one could argue that something that benefits the people isn't necessarily popular. Maybe a lot of the people who are against the PATRIOT Act are protesting it simply because they don't like the government that passed it. Maybe they don't actually understand the act because they haven't read it. Maybe they're getting their information about the act from a biased news source that picks and chooses what it reports on to slant things with an angle. Maybe that news source is "nit picking the insignificant issues to avoid the significant issues." Maybe these people have been told things are in the act when they aren't and never were, and their belief that those certain things are in the act are what's causing them to be against it.
Wait... are we talking about the PATRIOT Act or the healthcare bill?
Since we're on the topic of the healthcare bill (thanks to my rough segue), it's not anywhere near as unpopular as you claim it is. While it's true that most polls show more people are opposed to the bill than support it, when the individual elements of the bill are broken up and presented to people on their own, between 60%-70% of the people support almost all of it (the only thing the public truly doesn't like is the individual coverage mandate, which is only one part of the bill). A large number of the people who say in polls they don't like the bill as a whole are the same people who think death panels are a real thing, so they clearly don't actually understand the bill at all... which is confirmed when the individual aspects are presented to them on their own and they say they support them (again, with the exception of the individual coverage mandate, which is unpopular on both sides of the aisle). So the bill was, as you put it, "rammed" down the throats of people who don't understand what's in it.
Those people may have been a little more educated about the bill had they tuned into that one show that had on as a guest a prominent Republican who helpfully bookmarked the pages of the bill that referred to the death panels... only to be completely unable to find any mention of anything resembling death panels when the host of the show asked her to point them out. Then again, since the show was The Daily Show and they only deal in "FAKE news" I assume they weren't watching it; they were instead watching the real journalists on a real news network like Fox News sit around and discuss how the death panels in Obamacare were going to kill off America's elderly.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
The only part of Indiana that is a dump is the Gary region near Chicago. The rest of the state is quite pleasant.
And you are also right that it is easy to run your agenda and be successful with a republican house and senate ... although this is something that Obama had trouble figuring out when the cards were stacked in his favor.
Maybe I should clarify "dump". Some areas might be pleasing to the eye, which Gary is not. But I mean dump, like literally dump your toxins and waste. It ranks at the bottom or near the bottom when compared to other states on many environmental rankings. It's interesting to have grown up there and now live somewhere just the opposite. And the whole argument that environmental regulations stifles business doesn't really fly, as the Northwest ranks high in environmental quality as well as being business friendly.
Indiana cities are so sprawling and car-centric, it's sad really. It's woven into the culture there. I do still love my home state, I just couldn't live there.
Hmm, interesting. Forbes has Indiana ranked 49th out of 50 for the greenest states.
Not much you can do about the car travel. Indy and Ft. Wayne don't suffer traffic congestion to the point that public transit is given much thought thanks to good roadway layout. Ft. Wayne is adding a network of bike and walk paths that may encourage leg power over horsepower so that's a start. Plus, with the hundreds and hundreds of small towns spread out throughout the state, the automobile will be the main source of transportation for some time to come. Plus, as you well know, most Hoosiers are not open to change ... hell, they are still complaining about the daylight savings switch.
Do you even know what the Boston Tea Party was about? The modern day Tea Party has nothing to do with the plight of the people who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation, not taxation as a whole.
+1
Tea Party members are often also the same people who claim that this country was founded by Christians as a "Christian" nation. No doubt there were Christians or religious men integral to the founding of this nation, but spend a little time researching the origins, biographies and political philosophy of the founding band of brothers and you see its simply not true.
That's a very narrow view of history, conveniently chosen to fit your argument. In general the tea partiers in 1773 reacted to growing government intervention in their lives, I guess you can't see the parallel? I guess you don’t want to?
You bring up the Christian aspect out of the blue; I guess you have an axe to grind? I'm not going to take the bait, all I'll say is that you are not helping your crediblity.
No what he is saying is that they believe in bullshit, and that them believing that this country was founded by Christians as a Christian nation is just as much a crock of shit as comparing themselves with the Boston Tea Party.
The Tea Party people are the ones making a stretch to compare their movement to the Boston Tea Party. They're the ones who have to prove how our nation is in a state that is comparable to a time when we were being ruled by a monarchy across the ocean with a Parliament that didn't have any representatives from the colonies.
Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller said Walker and Republicans' push to enact the law instead cost the state money, resulting in "months of legal wrangling, unprecedented political divisiveness and millions of dollars of lost budget savings."
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probably not, he had enough votes to win the first time when he said he was going to do stuff like this, Unless the governor's term in wisconsin is only two years, this will be long forgotten by everyone but the unions in about a month when the next big controversy hits the nation
Policemen cannot strike, we should take to the streets until they have every right every other union member has...people have different jobs and different unions should and do fall under different rules and this shouldn't be any different...different
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
But he didn't campaign on these points there is no way he ran telling everybody that he had this up hi's sleeve ..
So basically Walker needs to pull the State out of debt. If he fails, his ass will be on the line ... although as mentioned by others, four years is a very long time for the collective memory of people.
Or maybe pay for any of his utilities? Still don't think so, but then again he's wealthy, not like those of us on the front lines actually facing over 100 high school students a day, getting dirty, sick, having to pay out of pocket for supplies, etc. As per history, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class suffers the most.
The WI governor's salary is $137,092, a car, and a home - according to the Council of State Governments, The Book of States 2010 (Table 4.3).
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Scott ... z1GLg9vvq6
Here is a real look at a teacher's personal life, and sums up 98% of all teachers I know, it's interesting to see that the most accurate portrayal comes from a news satire.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer ... -rips.html
http://boe.jeff.k12.wv.us/education/staff/staff.php?sectionid=948&
Yes he's doing what he said he would do when he ran. And the ones protesting are the people that didn't vote for him, big shocker there.
Does any state governor pay for any of their utilities? I'm thinking not so whats your point?
And since your a teacher or claim to be one let me ask you a couple questions. Did you go to school to become a teacher? Or did you decide on becoming a teacher after things didn't work out and you had to make another career choice? Maybe you thought well I'll have the summers off and that will be great. Or well if I become a teacher I can retire at age 55 and have a sweet pension. I wish I had a job where I knew once I retire at a younger age then most that I will have a awesome pension and I barley had to pay anything to get it . I don't feel sorry for teachers in the state of Wisconsin. And yes I have family members that are teachers and some make over $76,000 a year. And they have the nerve to complain that everything is being taken away from them by Walker.
I'm not convinced this argument rings true.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... gn-on.html
I have no problem with any union member being forced to contribute to their own retirement or health benefits package. To me that is just common sense. But taking away collective bargaining rights after never having campaigned on it is out of line.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Well at least we agree on something.
How dare you accuse teachers of "taking the summer off"! I have never taken a summer off in 15 years, and I have never met a teacher who has retired at the age of 55, but then again I teach in WV, where the average salary is barely $40K a year and I pay nearly 1/3 of my retirement with insurance that my doctors regularly tell me is worse than public assistance. The fact is the majority of teachers attend professional development, or continuing education courses, or additional training certification courses in the summer, many times on their own dime and as a requirement by their county. The teachers who "have summers off" are the shitty teachers who should be fired for not taking the responsibility of their profession as they should. I am not a fan of tenure after 3 years, with the mind set of milking the taxpayer's teet. Rather, I think teachers should be made to justify their merit on a regular basis. How that is accomplished is the national debate I have become part of along with other collegues of mine.
As for governors not paying bills, they all should, but since Walker ws the focus of the thread, he's the recepient of the remark.
And once collective bargaining is taken away from workers, then what rights do the workers have? That is not to say they need to demand more than they deserve, but at least maintain the cost of modern expenses. In WV teachers receive an across the board cost of living increase, but it doesn't take into account the vast economic differences within the state. I live in the most expensive part of the state, with the highest tax rate, highest growth in population, ect, and the "cost of living increase" does not cover the actual cost increase. But I moved to this area because it was the only area hiring teachers 15 years ago, and to this day still is one of the few that actually hires teachers on a regular basis.
So in conclusion to this, please don't accuse teachers of being over paid and underworked. When you compare average pay salaries between educators and other professionals there is tsill a major descrepancy between the pay rates. I am tired of people who have never set foot as a teacher in a classroom thinking they understand what it is we do. Because I now have to ask, what doyou do? I make a difference how about you?
http://boe.jeff.k12.wv.us/education/staff/staff.php?sectionid=948&
I also wish that the majority of my co-workers got into teaching because of summers off. I'd also like to find a job where we have 100% highly efficient, highly skilled, willing to put in more than 40 hours a week while being a public figure for the rest of their lives and not worry about burn out because they work 365 days a year.
Chicago 8/23/09 Chicago 8/24/09 PJ 20 9/3/11 PJ 20 9/4/11 Milwaukee 10/20/14 Chicago 8/20/16 Chicago 8/22/16 Chicago 8/18/18 Chicago 8/20/18
So basically Walker needs to pull the State out of debt. If he fails, his ass will be on the line ... although as mentioned by others, four years is a very long time for the collective memory of people.[/quote]"
Indiana's gov did the same without media frenzy because Indiana has a long history of not being supportive of unions and the state is filled with largely apathetic Republicans. People can praise the current gov. Daniels and hint at a prez run for him, but it should be noted that it's not too hard to run your agenda with a republican house and senate. Also, the state is a dump and scores lower on many indicators when compared to other states.
Wisconsin is definitely not Indiana and Walker will be gone in the next election.
The Conservatives and Teabaggers in this country continue to preach that they want government to stay out of their lives and stop infringing on their rights. Am I correct? That is pretty much what I've been hearing.
Yet when a government figure such as Walker steps in and strips rights from hard working Americans, I hear no such protest from teabaggers or Republicans. I hear the opposite from them. Supoporting this act.
I bet if Obama tried to do this exact same thing, Walker and all other Republicans and teabaggers would be up in arms.
I didn't hear them complain too much when he extended the Bush era tax cuts.
9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
And you are also right that it is easy to run your agenda and be successful with a republican house and senate ... although this is something that Obama had trouble figuring out when the cards were stacked in his favor.
Which "teabaggers" are you refering to? The ones that helped get your freedom in 1773 or the modern day ones trying to keep it?
The problem is your news source. You are watching a left wing nutjob who wants to distort the true purpose of unions in this day and age. They are purely political in nature, and have no actual need these days. Eliminating unions can actually be viewed as reducing government involvement in our economy. Unions (and other liberal ideas) are responsible for the downfall of this country. The auto industry is a great example of how unions ruined an industry. True hardworking employees don't need a union, because if you were a true hardworking valuable employee, you can bargain for yourself. I guess you are referring to the hard working people of the auto industry who sit in the break room all day and can't be fired because the union, yet make six figures. Plus, most conservatives aren't in a union, so even if you viewed it as interfering, it doesn't affect conservatives. Lastly, don't forget about the rights of the many to not be unfairly taxed for a few.
I've tried to keep this short and only hit a few high points, I could write pages. I'm guessing that if you get your news from Bill Maher, your mind is not open to the short or long version. But if you don't understand why unions are bad, you're never going to understand the rest of the argument.
Way to be firm in your beliefs
I disagree that what MG79478 said is the only good thing in this thread
Yes, Canada. Actually, you would all rather come to Canada. You just don't know it yet ...
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
I am on your side but unions aren't inherently bad.
Maybe I should clarify "dump". Some areas might be pleasing to the eye, which Gary is not. But I mean dump, like literally dump your toxins and waste. It ranks at the bottom or near the bottom when compared to other states on many environmental rankings. It's interesting to have grown up there and now live somewhere just the opposite. And the whole argument that environmental regulations stifles business doesn't really fly, as the Northwest ranks high in environmental quality as well as being business friendly.
Indiana cities are so sprawling and car-centric, it's sad really. It's woven into the culture there. I do still love my home state, I just couldn't live there.
It absolutely scares the shit out of me that anyone could construe Michele Bachmann as "trying to keep my freedom" (whatever the sam-fuck that means). She is an absolute lunatic.
2003-06-16 St. Paul
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2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
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2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2024-08-31 Wrigley 2
2024-09-15 Fenway 1
2024-09-27 Ohana 1
2024-09-29 Ohana 2
Do you even know what the Boston Tea Party was about? The modern day Tea Party has nothing to do with the plight of the people who dumped tea into the Boston Harbor. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation, not taxation as a whole.
+1
Tea Party members are often also the same people who claim that this country was founded by Christians as a "Christian" nation. No doubt there were Christians or religious men integral to the founding of this nation, but spend a little time researching the origins, biographies and political philosophy of the founding band of brothers and you see its simply not true.
Anyway...good points. I'm sure there will be some self-righteous, pompous response about how I just don't know anything and I've been brainwashed by Keith Olbermann...that seems to be the general response from conservatives in this thread...
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2024-08-31 Wrigley 2
2024-09-15 Fenway 1
2024-09-27 Ohana 1
2024-09-29 Ohana 2
Reminds me of a guy on TV that was interviewed during a Tea Party demonstration... he said this was taxation without representation, because his views weren't being represented in Washington because the guy he voted for didn't win
You bring up the Christian aspect out of the blue; I guess you have an axe to grind? I'm not going to take the bait, all I'll say is that you are not helping your crediblity.
Growing government to cater to a special interest group is bad, growing government for the betterment of all citizens is good. There is nothing "un-firm" about that statement. Maybe I should have said "all citizens", instead of "me", but an educated person would get the point. This is clear if you leave that quote in context about the patriot act. The funny thing is, you liberals keep nit picking the insignificant issues to avoid the significant issues. What you pulled from that paragraph is a perfect example.
Wow, isn’t the daily show just great! Gotta love the FAKE news. I’m sure that one guy represented the entire movement. FYI, the majority of people's views are not being represented in Washington. Anyone remember healthcare being rammed down our throats without regard the will of the people?
I'm not educated? I guess that means my alma mater owes me a good chunk of change for the money I paid them in fees to get the degree I have hanging on the wall. My apologies that my college education wasn't thorough enough to teach me that "me" = "everyone." If only I attended the same English classes you did, then I would know that micro and macro are synonyms. Unless of course your own education was so super duper fantastic that you are so smart that you actually do represent "all citizens" - which, you know, is perfectly fine because it's really quite easy to get all 300 million Americans to agree on what exactly benefits them.
Except... to go back to your quote in its context... you say the PATRIOT Act benefits all citizens... if that's the case, then shouldn't it be a popular act? I mean, it stands to reason that if the PATRIOT Act is a good thing for everyone, then everyone should love it - right? Except... they don't love it. It's fairly unpopular. There are even plenty of Democrats pissed off that Obama wanted to extend it.
Though one could argue that something that benefits the people isn't necessarily popular. Maybe a lot of the people who are against the PATRIOT Act are protesting it simply because they don't like the government that passed it. Maybe they don't actually understand the act because they haven't read it. Maybe they're getting their information about the act from a biased news source that picks and chooses what it reports on to slant things with an angle. Maybe that news source is "nit picking the insignificant issues to avoid the significant issues." Maybe these people have been told things are in the act when they aren't and never were, and their belief that those certain things are in the act are what's causing them to be against it.
Wait... are we talking about the PATRIOT Act or the healthcare bill?
Since we're on the topic of the healthcare bill (thanks to my rough segue), it's not anywhere near as unpopular as you claim it is. While it's true that most polls show more people are opposed to the bill than support it, when the individual elements of the bill are broken up and presented to people on their own, between 60%-70% of the people support almost all of it (the only thing the public truly doesn't like is the individual coverage mandate, which is only one part of the bill). A large number of the people who say in polls they don't like the bill as a whole are the same people who think death panels are a real thing, so they clearly don't actually understand the bill at all... which is confirmed when the individual aspects are presented to them on their own and they say they support them (again, with the exception of the individual coverage mandate, which is unpopular on both sides of the aisle). So the bill was, as you put it, "rammed" down the throats of people who don't understand what's in it.
Those people may have been a little more educated about the bill had they tuned into that one show that had on as a guest a prominent Republican who helpfully bookmarked the pages of the bill that referred to the death panels... only to be completely unable to find any mention of anything resembling death panels when the host of the show asked her to point them out. Then again, since the show was The Daily Show and they only deal in "FAKE news" I assume they weren't watching it; they were instead watching the real journalists on a real news network like Fox News sit around and discuss how the death panels in Obamacare were going to kill off America's elderly.
Suck it, West Virginia!
http://www.forbes.com/2007/10/16/environment-energy-vermont-biz-beltway-cx_bw_mm_1017greenstates.html
Not much you can do about the car travel. Indy and Ft. Wayne don't suffer traffic congestion to the point that public transit is given much thought thanks to good roadway layout. Ft. Wayne is adding a network of bike and walk paths that may encourage leg power over horsepower so that's a start. Plus, with the hundreds and hundreds of small towns spread out throughout the state, the automobile will be the main source of transportation for some time to come. Plus, as you well know, most Hoosiers are not open to change ... hell, they are still complaining about the daylight savings switch.
No what he is saying is that they believe in bullshit, and that them believing that this country was founded by Christians as a Christian nation is just as much a crock of shit as comparing themselves with the Boston Tea Party.
The Tea Party people are the ones making a stretch to compare their movement to the Boston Tea Party. They're the ones who have to prove how our nation is in a state that is comparable to a time when we were being ruled by a monarchy across the ocean with a Parliament that didn't have any representatives from the colonies.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110615/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions;_ylt=AgC_tVI1LsA9rvLpFGLJmkis0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlZW1oNTRmBHBvcwM1MgRzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX3Vfc19uZXdzBHNsawN3aXNzdXByZW1lY28-
I found this quote interesting:
Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller said Walker and Republicans' push to enact the law instead cost the state money, resulting in "months of legal wrangling, unprecedented political divisiveness and millions of dollars of lost budget savings."