Really? So you're telling me, all the dereguliation that took place under Bush, wasn't that big a deal? The Enron's and Lehman Brothers and Citigroups and Bush being the President who originally bailed out the banks and car companies, wasn't that big a deal? The massive spending Bush did while taxing less therefore spending more and bringing in less, wasn't that big a deal? The Eight years that he was President did not cause any of the problems, right? But Obama took office in January of 2009, didn't really get to enact any sort of laws or budgets of much significance until probably the spring of that year, so two years at most, one and a half more realistically, and it's all his fault? I'll go read my history books, why don't you go read your economic books, and realize things don't happen over night. Bush's policies (as well as Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, etc.) are still effecting this country probably more so that what has happened in the last two years. If there were an easy fix, Obama would have done it by now. It took years and years to get us in this mess, and it will take awhile to get out. But... it's all the new guy's fault. Right?
Never did I saw that everything bush did was right, and everything is Obama’s fault. In fact I specifically refer to problems starting back in the days of FDR and slowly growing over the years. You obviously didn’t take the time to read my post, yet still felt the need to respond. I’ve been critical of Bush; I think the first stimulus (approved by a democrat majority in congress) was a bad idea. But Obama continued to pass stimulus bills. What does have an effect over night is when your government is spending like a drunken sailor. I do agree with you though, most of the damage he has done (i.e. Obamacare) will take years to really screw us and our kids.
This is priceless. "Life was pretty damn good from 2001-2009."
Let's see: $1 trillion war started on false premises, totally incompetent response to a natural disaster, gutting of the EPA, creation of a new entitlement benefit pandering to senior citizens & rX companies (that cost more than pretty much all Obama spending so far), complete collapse of the economy...
Yeah, it was fucking awesome. :roll:
Bush wasn't perfect, but your response reeks of main stream media drivel. You are grossly misinformed on Obama's spending vs all other presidents combined. I could spend all day correcting you, but I don't think you will listen. But one thing really gets me is the natural disasters. I can't believe anyone out there still spouts this stuff. Which natural disaster were you referring to? The one where the people had days of warning and refused to leave, then the Democrat governor of the state, who was responsible for the disaster botched the aftermath, and the federal government had to swing in to help? Or are you talking Obama's response to the much worse Iowa floods or the gulf oil spill? How about Obama's response to the Ft Hood terrorist attack? Bush's Katrina response was light years faster than Obama's response to the much worse disasters.
I think we'll just let you stay in your fantasies. Sources like Congressional Budget Office don't mean anything to people like you unless the numbers support your surreal arguments. (but Part D cost more than the Bush/Obama Bailouts, Healthcare Reform and the Recovery Act combined)
Oh by the way, Obamacare is a right-wing term gleefully picked up by the Liberal Media. The biggest problem with Healthcare Reform is that it didn't go far enough, in a lame attempt to placate right-wingers who were never going to vote for it anyway.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
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I would love to see this become a reality even though I know it never will. Imagine getting an itemized receipt each year letting you know what your tax dollars were spent on? No one on either of the side of the aisle would be happy.
"Life was pretty damn good from 2001-2009"? Dude, what are you smoking?
The Patriot Act, the neverending war in Iraq, the failed response to Hurricane Katrina...I could go on, but if you think we're worse off now than we were under Bush, you're seriously mistaken.
Funny, some of your liberal friends were arguing how we needed more laws like the patriot act to prevent tragedies like the Arizona shooting. I don't see the problem with the patriot act. I am totally against growing government power, unless it directly benefits me, and this does. Who cares if they tap your phone, unless you have something to hide? Maybe if Clinton would have enacted something like the patriot act, 9-11 would have been avoided, and we wouldn't have ever gone to Iraq? Katrina... you can't be serious?
I don't get how people think life is good now. Obama is weakening our position in the world. I've never been so worried about the future of my kids. What is possibly going well now? Maybe it's because I am surrounded solely by well educated, hard working, responsible people. But no one I know is happy about the state of this country. No one likes Obamacare. Everyone feels like they are getting squeezed to fund democrat entitlement programs, that they offer in exchange for votes. I guess if you are one of the non-productive members of society, you might think it is pretty awesome that Obama wants to give you so much free stuff? I just don't get it? Even still, his spending, and his foreign policy should still scare the crap out of you.
is that you Rush? Bill? Sean? Glen??
or Maybe you're Dick Cheney or Karl Rove??
Must be one of you or maybe you're Sarah Palin because certainly no one else would believe what you said.
Here's a free tip, while this board may be populated mostly be sheep who believe whatever their favorite singer says, that is not indicative of the rest of the country. In fact, America in general is slightly right of center.
"Life was pretty damn good from 2001-2009"? Dude, what are you smoking? The Patriot Act, the neverending war in Iraq, the failed response to Hurricane Katrina...I could go on, but if you think we're worse off now than we were under Bush, you're seriously mistaken.
I think we'll just let you stay in your fantasies. Sources like Congressional Budget Office don't mean anything to people like you unless the numbers support your surreal arguments. (but Part D cost more than the Bush/Obama Bailouts, Healthcare Reform and the Recovery Act combined)
Oh by the way, Obamacare is a right-wing term gleefully picked up by the Liberal Media. The biggest problem with Healthcare Reform is that it didn't go far enough, in a lame attempt to placate right-wingers who were never going to vote for it anyway.
Ok, provide links and numbers. Don’t just dump a link and run. The burden of proof is on you. Make a case, let's see what you got.
At least they didn't flee to avoid a vote. The problem is that health care is not a right.... It's a luxury. If you want it, work hard so that you can afford it. That’s the problem these days, what incentive does anyone have to better their situation when the government will take care of you? Government ruins everything it tries to run, and government health care is a massive failure everywhere it has been tried. The democrats are only onboard because they don't care about tomorrow; they only want to offer it for votes today. That's all they ever do, offer entitlements that I have to pay for, in exchange for votes. If their plan is so good, why doesn't it apply to them and their families?
The people of Wisconsin overwhelmingly voted in a Republican Governor and Republican majorities in both houses in 2010. They are getting what they voted for. Just like the United States overwhelmingly voted in a Democratic President and Democratic majorities in both houses in 2008, and we got what "we" voted for.
Elections have consequences.
Isn't there a board for this crap?
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I think there is a solution here. Pearl Jam gives 10 dollars from every ticket to various unions from Wisconsin (yah, this probably means our prices will go up but thats ok). This would allow them to move the concert to make a political statement, while still benefiting the good people of Wisconsin without supporting that moronic government
This is probably the worst idea I have read in regards to ticket sales.
There's no way I would pay that "tax" :evil: . :? I'll just sneak in if that's the case
So, What you Giving ?........ (Thanks Speedy, Alesek, & Arq+friends)
What You Giving
I suggest you step out on your Porch.
Run away my son. See it all. Oh, See the World!
Shouldn't the band 'not' tour in states where abortion is illegal then?
Knowing some members past views/stance on the topic?
Or not tour in states that clearly voted Bush, not once but twice? And then vow to never play in those republican-laden states ever again?
And what about their views on pollution and earth conservation? Shouldn't they vow never to play in CA then?
Really?
I understand the debate, but don't understand the 'need' to make WI's union shitstorm influence where pj plays a show....
Do not lose focus!
I am a teacher of 11 years, PJ fan since 94, ten club member since 96, Union member since 2000.
O yeah tax payer and home owner, in which I have not had to foreclose on my house or haven't had either of my two cars repo'd!
I am functioning as a good old middle class american, unlike others in the media these days. I would love to make more money to help pay off the 230+ we payed for three education degrees (B,B,M), like the 65 million the Kardashians made in 2010?
My wife, pearl jam fan, is also an educator. If we have the ability to work at a high level, for the public, which includes those not only us, of Pa., for 35 years our union bill will have topped over $63,000 american dollars.
To this I say privatize all public servant jobs! This would not only save us union dues but it would also save us from placing our money into a system that is governed by, well, the government so we can someday retire, again after 35 years?
To those in the non-union sector, be happy, you can complain, because it costs 1,313 dollars a month to educate a 4th grader in public school, in which if we privatized education, I would make more money and it would cost over 13,000 just to send one child to school for one year! Now I am sure if you had multiple students you might get a little discount, like when you go to Costco and buy in bulk?
As for the Cheeseheads!
IF all you want is the "Truth" my cheesehead brothers and sisters, DO NOT GO TO WORK! Send a true message, deunionize, like our NFL brothers???? Ask the public for your worth take the amount and go back to work!
Agreed the citizens of Cheeseville elected who they did and now must lay in those beds for 4 years, however you cannot give your friend an item and immediately ask for it back, aka. Gov. Walker. It does not work like that. Be creative make a stance!!! GO all 1969 on the state of cheesheads!!!!
Good Luck to all Americans
Maybe we should just listen to more PJ, chillax, go surfing, and vest our time and energy in raising our youth to be better than us!
Because when all the smoke has cleared it is "All About the Kids!"
I am in a trade union in Boston since 2004 and I am proud to be in the union. Lots of hate for the unions these days but for me, the union is great. Here is a few reasons why I think unions aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
1) In the local I am in, there are 32 different companies affiliated with the local. If I am working for one and get laid off, I don't have to take a pay cut to go back to work with another company. I don't have to go back to school to further my education and get deeper in debt. My health benefits, annuity, and pension all pick up where they left off. I don't have to get a severence package and start all over with a different company in that aspect.
2) Everyone's biggest bitch seems to be about having to pay union dues. To me I don't see what the big deal is. By being in a union you are guaranteed a fair wage for the work you do. My union dues get deducted out of my paycheck so it's not like I have to write a check every week. After union dues, taxes, annuity, pension, and healthcare taken out, I still take home more than $1,000/week. And that is for 40 hours. Our union hall isn't free, neither are the taxes, utilities and the cost to run it day to day. Our dues pay to keep the union running.
3) Overtime. Unions still have it. By being in the union, I get paid by the hour. Every hour over 40 is time and a half. Sundays are double time unless the job we are on has a maintenance agreement which means everything over 40 hrs is time and a half. I have a friend who is an enviornmentalist and he works 60-70 hrs a week for salary and doesn't get a dime more if he works an extra 20 hrs.
4) Sure we contribute to Democratic candidates campaign funds. Why wouldn't we? Most Democrats support unions and vote with us in mind on certain topics. How is that different than lobbyists contributing to Republicans coffers to get them to vote in their favor? I guess it all depends on which side of the fence you are on.
5) Teachers, construction workers, police, fire and many more jobs are union. There is a reason for this. Everyone should be able to have a say in their future. How many jobs a year get outsourced to other countries? Chances are those people who get told to move to another country to work or be fired aren't part of a union. Unions prevent this type of occurence from happening. These fat cat CEO's that have brought their company's and this country to it's knees did it all so they could line their pockets at the expense of the working man and woman. They care only about their own bottom line and that is it. Those union dues I noted earlier.... I look at them as insurance. They buy me a little bit of peace of mind knowing that I have an organization willing to stand up for me and my fellow workers if this were to ever happen to us.
I did my time when I was in college working in a union plant. Had to pay my money every month, and all I got different from my friends who worked in non-union jobs was about $1 more an hour. Oh yeah, they got holiday pay right out of the gate, when I had to work about half the summer to hope I didn't get forced to work on the 4th of July due to low seniority, and was forced to take off shift and swing shifts for vacation relief.
I have friends back in IN who are teachers and pilots (both union) who started out making about 25k per year. Most just have recently made a decent jump after acquiring "tenure", which is a load of crap, just job protection for sub-par teachers (not all are sub-par, there are plenty of good and even great ones out there).
To those who chose a salaried position (like I have chosen to take), I would wager that most understood the rules when they signed on.
As far has having a choice in one's future, there is no one who works for/with me who doesn't have a choice. If they wish, they can switch jobs in the company when one is available without losing pay, benefits, or seniority. Hell, even I can move if I want. If I choose to leave and go to a different company, it's my decision. By doing so, I totally understand that will lose some benefits (maybe, depends on how well I negotiate) and generally will have to start over. It's part of the job, to get it you have to earn it.
I don't want a bunch of fat cat union leaders spending my money on union halls, secretaries, personal automobiles, company planes, or political contributions. Which is why if the band were to give ANY portion of a ticket to ANY union, I would refrain from purchasing said ticket. It's my choice, and I would choose to keep my money instead of giving it over to a union who doesn't care about or would do anything with the money to help me.
This is what makes the good ol' US of A great. We all have the right to choose and are free to express our beliefs.
"Then the Spirit of God hovered over the water, and God said, Let there be music, and there was Pearl Jam."
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?
Obama is weakening our position in the world. I've never been so worried about the future of my kids.
Exactly how has this happened? Please give me specifics. It's all in your head. It's my understanding that Obama sharply increased the number of droid killings of al qaeda operatives in Afghanistan & Pakistan.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Lock the thread? because we're actually having an intelligent discussion instead of saying whether or not ed looks hot in a photo? if you don't like the thread then don't read it.
as far as the discussion, i've been teaching in public schools for ten years. i'm a damn good teacher and well respected amongst my peers, administration and most importantly my students. i honestly think unions are good and bad. i get really pissed when unions protect lazy people (my union is not only teachers but bus drivers, aides for special needs childrens, custodial and cafeteria staff) or people that don't do their job effictively. people make it out that schools should run like a business; it's not a business but that's another discussion for another time.
i think unions are good because they do protect your job against the board of education for firing you because you make too much or they want to get a job for their niece or nephew. the thing is no matter what, you are going to have lazy and inefficient people in all jobs and careers. a lot of teachers do get let go or go under administrator review when they are ineffective. i myself with ten years experience is mentoring a teacher of 25 years because she is one of those "ditto" passing out educators. but this type of teaching is definitely the exception and not the norm.
as far as health care, my wife is an adult nurse practioner in the oncology field. she sees a lot of sick sick sick sick people and far as healthcare goes, a hospital isn't going to deny you just because you dont have healthcare. one of the reasons that prcies in hospitals is so high is to cover the uninsured. just another perspective.
obama, awesome president that inherited an awful lot of shit. probably the most since fdr took office in 1932. i don't see how any person could be objective and say president bush was a good president that was beneficial to the world. just my two cents.
If the PJ20 celebration turns into a political event, I'm out. I just want to go and rock out to some great live music and not have to think about the state of anything. It's a party, so let it just be that...
Monday on face the nation, Gov. Christie was asked if he though the unions should be able to bargain collectively. Here is his answer. He seems pretty spot on from what I have followed. Why is he an A-hole exactly? :roll:
GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE: What I’ve said in New Jersey is, as long as it’s fair and reasonable collective bargaining. You know, we can’t have what we’ve had before. You know, Bob, public sector workers, state workers in New Jersey, this past year, were working under a contract from my predecessor Jon Corzine, got seven percent salary increases in a zero percent inflation world. I don’t think the people who are paying the bills think that’s the result of fair adversarial collective bargaining. They want someone in the room representing the taxpayers. And that’s what I’ll be this June, when that contract expires.
Obama cannot be blamed for the mess the USA is in right now. He took over a sinking ship.
People who blame Obama for the state of the US are about as simple as the person in a long line of traffic- honking their horn and cursing at the person directly in front of them as if they were to blame.
i would love to know what public employees in new jersey got on average an 8% raise. i dropped by 1.5% because the state has no money. tons of teachers across the state took a pay freeze in order to save jobs (that's why unions rock!). there's no way that teachers, police, or firemen got that big a raise. teachers no way because it's a state law that says you can't increase a school budget by mroe than 2%.
maybe it was people in his own staff that got huge raises. who knows.
His idea of fair and reasonable is to change all the rules of collective bargaining so that they favor the state. He has already passed a law capping the maximum raise for public workers at 2%.
Do a little reading on the guy's history. It's a little scary that he went from a guy who couldn't get elected in a local election to becoming GWB's no. 1 fund raiser in NJ which led to him being appointed US Attorney as a payback by W.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
Meet GWB's little brother. Coming soon to a White House near you.
Oh I know all about my Governor... it's unfortunate that Corzine was such an ass-hat that it gave the state house to a very scary individual.
have read through the posts here and obviously my intent was not a debate about the Bush Doctrine, but in fact a call to arms on a very hot topic and something that is being covered by all the news outlets. I understand every State in the Union has an issue you could protest about if your convictions went the other way. But no other issue currently is leading headlines around the entire country.
If I make the assumption that the information about the Alpine Valley PJ WEEKEND is true, which would attract fans from all over the world, I would think a strong statement would be the following... "Dear Wisconsin Governor... We have been in serious negotiations about having a 20th Anniversary Weekend Bash at your facility Alpine Valley. However, based on current events concerning the removal of collective bargaining arrangements with your public employees, we have decided to move our event to (pick another state and site in another state in the "middle" of the country)."
Obama cannot be blamed for the mess the USA is in right now. He took over a sinking ship.
People who blame Obama for the state of the US are about as simple as the person in a long line of traffic- honking their horn and cursing at the person directly in front of them as if they were to blame.
There are actually people who defend Bush? Yikes.
Obama has done PLENTY on his own to help fuck this country up even more......Most of you need to wake up to the fact that Bush & Obama BOTH SUCK!!! Dems & Repubs are both liars and douchebags....FUCK THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comments
Never did I saw that everything bush did was right, and everything is Obama’s fault. In fact I specifically refer to problems starting back in the days of FDR and slowly growing over the years. You obviously didn’t take the time to read my post, yet still felt the need to respond. I’ve been critical of Bush; I think the first stimulus (approved by a democrat majority in congress) was a bad idea. But Obama continued to pass stimulus bills. What does have an effect over night is when your government is spending like a drunken sailor. I do agree with you though, most of the damage he has done (i.e. Obamacare) will take years to really screw us and our kids.
I think we'll just let you stay in your fantasies. Sources like Congressional Budget Office don't mean anything to people like you unless the numbers support your surreal arguments. (but Part D cost more than the Bush/Obama Bailouts, Healthcare Reform and the Recovery Act combined)
Oh by the way, Obamacare is a right-wing term gleefully picked up by the Liberal Media. The biggest problem with Healthcare Reform is that it didn't go far enough, in a lame attempt to placate right-wingers who were never going to vote for it anyway.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I would love to see this become a reality even though I know it never will. Imagine getting an itemized receipt each year letting you know what your tax dollars were spent on? No one on either of the side of the aisle would be happy.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Funny, some of your liberal friends were arguing how we needed more laws like the patriot act to prevent tragedies like the Arizona shooting. I don't see the problem with the patriot act. I am totally against growing government power, unless it directly benefits me, and this does. Who cares if they tap your phone, unless you have something to hide? Maybe if Clinton would have enacted something like the patriot act, 9-11 would have been avoided, and we wouldn't have ever gone to Iraq? Katrina... you can't be serious?
I don't get how people think life is good now. Obama is weakening our position in the world. I've never been so worried about the future of my kids. What is possibly going well now? Maybe it's because I am surrounded solely by well educated, hard working, responsible people. But no one I know is happy about the state of this country. No one likes Obamacare. Everyone feels like they are getting squeezed to fund democrat entitlement programs, that they offer in exchange for votes. I guess if you are one of the non-productive members of society, you might think it is pretty awesome that Obama wants to give you so much free stuff? I just don't get it? Even still, his spending, and his foreign policy should still scare the crap out of you.
Here's a free tip, while this board may be populated mostly be sheep who believe whatever their favorite singer says, that is not indicative of the rest of the country. In fact, America in general is slightly right of center.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05562.html
oh and about the unions and pearl jam, they broke a picket line to play a show 7/10/06 if memory serves.
Ok, provide links and numbers. Don’t just dump a link and run. The burden of proof is on you. Make a case, let's see what you got.
At least they didn't flee to avoid a vote. The problem is that health care is not a right.... It's a luxury. If you want it, work hard so that you can afford it. That’s the problem these days, what incentive does anyone have to better their situation when the government will take care of you? Government ruins everything it tries to run, and government health care is a massive failure everywhere it has been tried. The democrats are only onboard because they don't care about tomorrow; they only want to offer it for votes today. That's all they ever do, offer entitlements that I have to pay for, in exchange for votes. If their plan is so good, why doesn't it apply to them and their families?
Elections have consequences.
Isn't there a board for this crap?
~ Kansas City 5/3/10 ~ Alpine Valley 9/3/11 ~ Alpine Valley 9/4/11 ~
~ Wrigley Field 7/19/13 ~ Oklahoma City 11/16/13 ~ St. Louis 10/3/14 ~
~ Wrigley Field 8/20/16 ~ Wrigley Field 8/18/18 ~ Wrigley Field 8/20/18 ~
~ Fenway Park 9/4/18 ~ Denver 9/22/22 ~ Ft. Worth 9/12/23 ~ Wrigley Field 8/29/24 ~
If there isn't, there should be. Let me summarize what has happend thus far: "I'm right. You're wrong. Go fuck yourself."
People overly involved in their own political opinion and those of others are frustrating as hell on both sides.
Edit: Also, those who constantly refer to people who don't follow their beliefs as sheep please get off your high horse.
There's no way I would pay that "tax" :evil: . :? I'll just sneak in if that's the case
What You Giving
I suggest you step out on your Porch.
Run away my son. See it all. Oh, See the World!
Knowing some members past views/stance on the topic?
Or not tour in states that clearly voted Bush, not once but twice? And then vow to never play in those republican-laden states ever again?
And what about their views on pollution and earth conservation? Shouldn't they vow never to play in CA then?
Really?
I understand the debate, but don't understand the 'need' to make WI's union shitstorm influence where pj plays a show....
I am a teacher of 11 years, PJ fan since 94, ten club member since 96, Union member since 2000.
O yeah tax payer and home owner, in which I have not had to foreclose on my house or haven't had either of my two cars repo'd!
I am functioning as a good old middle class american, unlike others in the media these days. I would love to make more money to help pay off the 230+ we payed for three education degrees (B,B,M), like the 65 million the Kardashians made in 2010?
My wife, pearl jam fan, is also an educator. If we have the ability to work at a high level, for the public, which includes those not only us, of Pa., for 35 years our union bill will have topped over $63,000 american dollars.
To this I say privatize all public servant jobs! This would not only save us union dues but it would also save us from placing our money into a system that is governed by, well, the government so we can someday retire, again after 35 years?
To those in the non-union sector, be happy, you can complain, because it costs 1,313 dollars a month to educate a 4th grader in public school, in which if we privatized education, I would make more money and it would cost over 13,000 just to send one child to school for one year! Now I am sure if you had multiple students you might get a little discount, like when you go to Costco and buy in bulk?
As for the Cheeseheads!
IF all you want is the "Truth" my cheesehead brothers and sisters, DO NOT GO TO WORK! Send a true message, deunionize, like our NFL brothers???? Ask the public for your worth take the amount and go back to work!
Agreed the citizens of Cheeseville elected who they did and now must lay in those beds for 4 years, however you cannot give your friend an item and immediately ask for it back, aka. Gov. Walker. It does not work like that. Be creative make a stance!!! GO all 1969 on the state of cheesheads!!!!
Good Luck to all Americans
Maybe we should just listen to more PJ, chillax, go surfing, and vest our time and energy in raising our youth to be better than us!
Because when all the smoke has cleared it is "All About the Kids!"
Peace
Airblue!
I refer to those in front...
1) In the local I am in, there are 32 different companies affiliated with the local. If I am working for one and get laid off, I don't have to take a pay cut to go back to work with another company. I don't have to go back to school to further my education and get deeper in debt. My health benefits, annuity, and pension all pick up where they left off. I don't have to get a severence package and start all over with a different company in that aspect.
2) Everyone's biggest bitch seems to be about having to pay union dues. To me I don't see what the big deal is. By being in a union you are guaranteed a fair wage for the work you do. My union dues get deducted out of my paycheck so it's not like I have to write a check every week. After union dues, taxes, annuity, pension, and healthcare taken out, I still take home more than $1,000/week. And that is for 40 hours. Our union hall isn't free, neither are the taxes, utilities and the cost to run it day to day. Our dues pay to keep the union running.
3) Overtime. Unions still have it. By being in the union, I get paid by the hour. Every hour over 40 is time and a half. Sundays are double time unless the job we are on has a maintenance agreement which means everything over 40 hrs is time and a half. I have a friend who is an enviornmentalist and he works 60-70 hrs a week for salary and doesn't get a dime more if he works an extra 20 hrs.
4) Sure we contribute to Democratic candidates campaign funds. Why wouldn't we? Most Democrats support unions and vote with us in mind on certain topics. How is that different than lobbyists contributing to Republicans coffers to get them to vote in their favor? I guess it all depends on which side of the fence you are on.
5) Teachers, construction workers, police, fire and many more jobs are union. There is a reason for this. Everyone should be able to have a say in their future. How many jobs a year get outsourced to other countries? Chances are those people who get told to move to another country to work or be fired aren't part of a union. Unions prevent this type of occurence from happening. These fat cat CEO's that have brought their company's and this country to it's knees did it all so they could line their pockets at the expense of the working man and woman. They care only about their own bottom line and that is it. Those union dues I noted earlier.... I look at them as insurance. They buy me a little bit of peace of mind knowing that I have an organization willing to stand up for me and my fellow workers if this were to ever happen to us.
9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
I did my time when I was in college working in a union plant. Had to pay my money every month, and all I got different from my friends who worked in non-union jobs was about $1 more an hour. Oh yeah, they got holiday pay right out of the gate, when I had to work about half the summer to hope I didn't get forced to work on the 4th of July due to low seniority, and was forced to take off shift and swing shifts for vacation relief.
I have friends back in IN who are teachers and pilots (both union) who started out making about 25k per year. Most just have recently made a decent jump after acquiring "tenure", which is a load of crap, just job protection for sub-par teachers (not all are sub-par, there are plenty of good and even great ones out there).
To those who chose a salaried position (like I have chosen to take), I would wager that most understood the rules when they signed on.
As far has having a choice in one's future, there is no one who works for/with me who doesn't have a choice. If they wish, they can switch jobs in the company when one is available without losing pay, benefits, or seniority. Hell, even I can move if I want. If I choose to leave and go to a different company, it's my decision. By doing so, I totally understand that will lose some benefits (maybe, depends on how well I negotiate) and generally will have to start over. It's part of the job, to get it you have to earn it.
I don't want a bunch of fat cat union leaders spending my money on union halls, secretaries, personal automobiles, company planes, or political contributions. Which is why if the band were to give ANY portion of a ticket to ANY union, I would refrain from purchasing said ticket. It's my choice, and I would choose to keep my money instead of giving it over to a union who doesn't care about or would do anything with the money to help me.
This is what makes the good ol' US of A great. We all have the right to choose and are free to express our beliefs.
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?
Exactly how has this happened? Please give me specifics. It's all in your head. It's my understanding that Obama sharply increased the number of droid killings of al qaeda operatives in Afghanistan & Pakistan.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
this thread still sucks
Seattle, 12.7.93
Salt Lake, 6.21.98
Mountain View, 10.30.99
Mountain View, 10.31.99
Boise, 11.3.00
Portland, 9.26.09
as far as the discussion, i've been teaching in public schools for ten years. i'm a damn good teacher and well respected amongst my peers, administration and most importantly my students. i honestly think unions are good and bad. i get really pissed when unions protect lazy people (my union is not only teachers but bus drivers, aides for special needs childrens, custodial and cafeteria staff) or people that don't do their job effictively. people make it out that schools should run like a business; it's not a business but that's another discussion for another time.
i think unions are good because they do protect your job against the board of education for firing you because you make too much or they want to get a job for their niece or nephew. the thing is no matter what, you are going to have lazy and inefficient people in all jobs and careers. a lot of teachers do get let go or go under administrator review when they are ineffective. i myself with ten years experience is mentoring a teacher of 25 years because she is one of those "ditto" passing out educators. but this type of teaching is definitely the exception and not the norm.
as far as health care, my wife is an adult nurse practioner in the oncology field. she sees a lot of sick sick sick sick people and far as healthcare goes, a hospital isn't going to deny you just because you dont have healthcare. one of the reasons that prcies in hospitals is so high is to cover the uninsured. just another perspective.
obama, awesome president that inherited an awful lot of shit. probably the most since fdr took office in 1932. i don't see how any person could be objective and say president bush was a good president that was beneficial to the world. just my two cents.
You may not want to go to WI., but wouldn't you rather keep your money in the U.S.A.? I know i would.
Don't forget NJ's own a-hole.
Meet GWB's little brother. Coming soon to a White House near you.
GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE: What I’ve said in New Jersey is, as long as it’s fair and reasonable collective bargaining. You know, we can’t have what we’ve had before. You know, Bob, public sector workers, state workers in New Jersey, this past year, were working under a contract from my predecessor Jon Corzine, got seven percent salary increases in a zero percent inflation world. I don’t think the people who are paying the bills think that’s the result of fair adversarial collective bargaining. They want someone in the room representing the taxpayers. And that’s what I’ll be this June, when that contract expires.
This thread still sucks
I'll chime in even though I probably shouldn't.
Obama cannot be blamed for the mess the USA is in right now. He took over a sinking ship.
People who blame Obama for the state of the US are about as simple as the person in a long line of traffic- honking their horn and cursing at the person directly in front of them as if they were to blame.
There are actually people who defend Bush? Yikes.
maybe it was people in his own staff that got huge raises. who knows.
His idea of fair and reasonable is to change all the rules of collective bargaining so that they favor the state. He has already passed a law capping the maximum raise for public workers at 2%.
Do a little reading on the guy's history. It's a little scary that he went from a guy who couldn't get elected in a local election to becoming GWB's no. 1 fund raiser in NJ which led to him being appointed US Attorney as a payback by W.
have read through the posts here and obviously my intent was not a debate about the Bush Doctrine, but in fact a call to arms on a very hot topic and something that is being covered by all the news outlets. I understand every State in the Union has an issue you could protest about if your convictions went the other way. But no other issue currently is leading headlines around the entire country.
If I make the assumption that the information about the Alpine Valley PJ WEEKEND is true, which would attract fans from all over the world, I would think a strong statement would be the following... "Dear Wisconsin Governor... We have been in serious negotiations about having a 20th Anniversary Weekend Bash at your facility Alpine Valley. However, based on current events concerning the removal of collective bargaining arrangements with your public employees, we have decided to move our event to (pick another state and site in another state in the "middle" of the country)."
Obviously I am not a speech writer
nice
Obama has done PLENTY on his own to help fuck this country up even more......Most of you need to wake up to the fact that Bush & Obama BOTH SUCK!!! Dems & Repubs are both liars and douchebags....FUCK THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!