Maybe it's been said at some point in this thread but I think re-issuing it would destroy it's legacy. No one would care anymore. It's such a unique part of PJ collecting history that it's better off being so special and elusive. Makes it much more special then it otherwise would be.
It reminds me of when the Cubs finally won the word series after 108 years. That uniqueness about them is gone now since they won. I think they were actually better of not winning the WS. It's much less exciting now that that story, that chase and elusiveness is over.
Maybe it's been said at some point in this thread but I think re-issuing it would destroy it's legacy. No one would care anymore. It's such a unique part of PJ collecting history that it's better off being so special and elusive. Makes it much more special then it otherwise would be.
It reminds me of when the Cubs finally won the word series after 108 years. That uniqueness about them is gone now since they won. I think they were actually better of not winning the WS. It's much less exciting now that that story, that chase and elusiveness is over.
ABSOLUTELY THE F**K NOT!!!!!
Yeah, that line of thinking is so ridiculously dumb. Lol.
Dallas, TX (November 15, 2013) Chicago 1 (August 20, 2016) Chicago 2 (August 22, 2016) Ft. Worth 1 (September 13, 2023) Ft. Worth 2 (September 15, 2023)
After 20 years, even owners of the OG would want another to spin , right?
Another? Still sealed.
Well if there is a reissue, you can finally spin it on your turntable.
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
Special care and attention -way more than flipping the wax.
Lots of people own Lost Dogs. Great sounding record. Love to spin it. Priceless.
The flip phone probably isn’t old enough to be cool again and that’s probably why you are mocked. Rather enigmatic for someone arguing so vehemently against old technology to buy one.
Some things never become cool again, some things do. It seems pretty irrelevant to lump all consumer goods under one umbrella.
A great vinyl record isn’t a flip phone or automatic windows. Nether of those things have ever elicited an emotional response from me. I never got shivers opening up a flip phone or brought to tears by how special it was to roll down a car window manually.
Again, what special care and attention are you talking about other than a thing you've created in your mind? You determine what attention you give to things. There is no difference between putting the record on and sitting down and listening to it with full attention or putting the CD on and sitting down and listening to it with full attention, other than the fact that you'll have to stand up and turn the record over. Someone made a comment about "you could put on a 70-minute CD and leave the house"? Well, you could put on a 20-minute LP side and leave the house. But why the hell would you do either of those things? You either put the music on and listen to it, or you leave the house. You control your actions.
The reason the Lost Dogs LP sells for a premium is that, in fact, lots of people do not own it. Lots of people do not own it because, when it came out, the number of people who were buying records was very small because the format had been phased out fifteen years earlier and had not yet become fashionable again. People used to react to seeing new records in my house like they react now to seeing me pull a flip phone out of my pocket. The premium on Lost Dogs has nothing to do with it sounding more special than other Pearl Jam LPs. It has to do with supply. If you look at the secondary-market sales prices of all of Pearl Jam's records, their value is in directly correlated with scarcity.
I'm not arguing against old technology, vehemently or otherwise. I drive a 2004-model car, have a satellite dish, listen to terrestrial radio, and don't have Wifi or a smartphone... and I have a record collection, including everything Pearl Jam has released except Benaroya Hall. I'm not dissing records; I'm commenting about the weird fetishization of them, to the point where someone can convince themselves that they can't pay attention to a CD the same way they pay attention to a record when that it is a completely self-created limitation. It's like people who say they don't carry cash because they're more likely to spend it than to charge something on a card. Why? Either way, it's an affirmative act. You choose to spend cash or not, just as you choose to use your debit or credit card, just as you choose whether to pay attention to music you just put on.
The reason the flip phone has not come back into vogue has little to do with coolness. It has to do with the fact that most people want smartphones. They want to able to have the Internet, including social media, at their fingertips at every moment. They want the other features that smartphones offer, like instant access to a library of digital entertainment. People moved away from the old technology because they prefer the new technology.
The other difference here is that I have never owned a smartphone, so these conveniences are not anything I have any experience with, and thus I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, whereas the majority of people who now swoon over records actually had the experience of abandoning that format because of the conveniences they thought that CDs provided. If these people loved records so much, they would have supported the format and we wouldn't have had a situation where there were hardly any record plants left by the 2000s. In this case, unlike with smartphones, people moved away from the old technology because they preferred the new technology, and then at some point they decided the new technology was actually lame and the old technology they abandoned was cool again.
Incidentally, if the flip phone ever does come back into fashion, it will be along the lines of the preceding sentence: because a significant number of people get tired of being constantly distracted by their devices and/or start to long for more real-world face-to-face interaction with other people. There was actually a story in the N.Y. Times recently-- in the Style section, notably-- about a group of high-school kids who have basically done this, getting rid of their smartphones. See https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/style/teens-social-media.html.
Special care and attention -way more than flipping the wax.
Lots of people own Lost Dogs. Great sounding record. Love to spin it. Priceless.
The flip phone probably isn’t old enough to be cool again and that’s probably why you are mocked. Rather enigmatic for someone arguing so vehemently against old technology to buy one.
Some things never become cool again, some things do. It seems pretty irrelevant to lump all consumer goods under one umbrella.
A great vinyl record isn’t a flip phone or automatic windows. Nether of those things have ever elicited an emotional response from me. I never got shivers opening up a flip phone or brought to tears by how special it was to roll down a car window manually.
Again, what special care and attention are you talking about other than a thing you've created in your mind? You determine what attention you give to things. There is no difference between putting the record on and sitting down and listening to it with full attention or putting the CD on and sitting down and listening to it with full attention, other than the fact that you'll have to stand up and turn the record over. Someone made a comment about "you could put on a 70-minute CD and leave the house"? Well, you could put on a 20-minute LP side and leave the house. But why the hell would you do either of those things? You either put the music on and listen to it, or you leave the house. You control your actions.
The reason the Lost Dogs LP sells for a premium is that, in fact, lots of people do not own it. Lots of people do not own it because, when it came out, the number of people who were buying records was very small because the format had been phased out fifteen years earlier and had not yet become fashionable again. People used to react to seeing new records in my house like they react now to seeing me pull a flip phone out of my pocket. The premium on Lost Dogs has nothing to do with it sounding more special than other Pearl Jam LPs. It has to do with supply. If you look at the secondary-market sales prices of all of Pearl Jam's records, their value is in directly correlated with scarcity.
I'm not arguing against old technology, vehemently or otherwise. I drive a 2004-model car, have a satellite dish, listen to terrestrial radio, and don't have Wifi or a smartphone... and I have a record collection, including everything Pearl Jam has released except Benaroya Hall. I'm not dissing records; I'm commenting about the weird fetishization of them, to the point where someone can convince themselves that they can't pay attention to a CD the same way they pay attention to a record when that it is a completely self-created limitation. It's like people who say they don't carry cash because they're more likely to spend it than to charge something on a card. Why? Either way, it's an affirmative act. You choose to spend cash or not, just as you choose to use your debit or credit card, just as you choose whether to pay attention to music you just put on.
The reason the flip phone has not come back into vogue has little to do with coolness. It has to do with the fact that most people want smartphones. They want to able to have the Internet, including social media, at their fingertips at every moment. They want the other features that smartphones offer, like instant access to a library of digital entertainment. People moved away from the old technology because they prefer the new technology.
The other difference here is that I have never owned a smartphone, so these conveniences are not anything I have any experience with, and thus I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, whereas the majority of people who now swoon over records actually had the experience of abandoning that format because of the conveniences they thought that CDs provided. If these people loved records so much, they would have supported the format and we wouldn't have had a situation where there were hardly any record plants left by the 2000s. In this case, unlike with smartphones, people moved away from the old technology because they preferred the new technology, and then at some point they decided the new technology was actually lame and the old technology they abandoned was cool again.
Incidentally, if the flip phone ever does come back into fashion, it will be along the lines of the preceding sentence: because a significant number of people get tired of being constantly distracted by their devices and/or start to long for more real-world face-to-face interaction with other people. There was actually a story in the N.Y. Times recently-- in the Style section, notably-- about a group of high-school kids who have basically done this, getting rid of their smartphones. See https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/style/teens-social-media.html.
People like records and give them special care and attention. Geek right out on them. Lots of people own Lost Dogs. I think it’s only scarce in the wild (in good condition) which drives up the price.
People wonder why I own records, collect posters, travel to shows, cheer for the Canucks, take longevity supplements, occasionally fast for several days, eat a low-carb diet, own a Ford pickup etc. etc. etc. and I could care less.
My last post clearly stated that flip phones have nothing to do with music format preference but you wrote 3 paragraphs on the topic. Allrighty then.
I don’t read the NY Times. It’s a rag. Kids should spend more time face to face, perhaps they could get together and spin records and talk about music. Hell they could even get up in the middle of Side B and leave the house.
Aw, this is still alive. I found it crazy to see that Qotsa did a re-reissue of their first album and people were excited about it. I still think the Benny deserves a reissue. It sounds so beautiful on vinyl.
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
Maybe it's been said at some point in this thread but I think re-issuing it would destroy it's legacy. No one would care anymore. It's such a unique part of PJ collecting history that it's better off being so special and elusive. Makes it much more special then it otherwise would be.
It reminds me of when the Cubs finally won the word series after 108 years. That uniqueness about them is gone now since they won. I think they were actually better of not winning the WS. It's much less exciting now that that story, that chase and elusiveness is over.
Aw, this is still alive. I found it crazy to see that Qotsa did a re-reissue of their first album and people were excited about it. I still think the Benny deserves a reissue. It sounds so beautiful on vinyl.
Standard black LP's so those complaining about their $10,000 sealed LP boxset losing value will hold its value. Doesn't even have be a boxset. Mind boggling why this hasn't been rereleased.
Standard black LP's so those complaining about their $10,000 sealed LP boxset losing value will hold its value. Doesn't even have be a boxset. Mind boggling why this hasn't been rereleased.
Standard black LP's so those complaining about their $10,000 sealed LP boxset losing value will hold its value. Doesn't even have be a boxset. Mind boggling why this hasn't been rereleased.
lol, it doesn't really matter, the original will lose it's lustre and value upon a rerelease. LO2L has dropped quite a bit now that the market is flooded with copies. I bet the Give Way CD drops considerably in value after RSD. It's the way it goes.
I'm ok with a re-release, but at the same time I don't think it's mind boggling. It was a limited edition release to begin with, maybe the band/10c intend to keep it that way. It was pretty clear in the announcement for it, that it was a limited run. It's possible they never reissue it. On the other hand, they could change their minds, but as it stands, they've done exactly what they said they would do. One time limited edition release. It's not mind boggling they did what they said they were going to do
After 20 years, even owners of the OG would want another to spin , right?
Yep. Have it, and I was at the show, so when I spin it, it's an experience for me and it takes me back. I only spin it on very rare occasions now and when I do, I'm always afraid I'll mess it up. It never happens, but the thought is still there. As long a a reissue sounded as good I'd spin that much more frequently and would be glad to have it.
Listening to the cd works of coarse, but for me when I listen to a record that's all I'm doing and I'm in the moment. A cd I easily get distracted and do other things.
I don't understand this. Why would the format make a difference? How is a CD more distracting than a record?
It's not more distracting, but it's easier to get distracted. When I listen to a record for me personally, I sit down and that's what I'm doing because I have to be there to change sides. I don't listen to records every day, so when I do, I make sure I'm more in the moment and focused on it. Listening to something as a cd or digitally I do all the time, it's easier to just start doing other stuff at the same time because I don't have to focus on it as much, or I want something in the background. I don't put records on for background music. But that's just me.
Exactly. It’s simple math. You can throw on a 70 min cd and leave the house if you want. The cd will stop playing when it’s done.
Vinyl takes special care and attention, it’s kind of a pain in the ass, and it’s why I love it.
But this is entirely a self-created thing. Music takes special care and attention, not the format it's on. You either choose to actively listen or you don't, whether it's a CD or an LP. I sit down and listen to CDs and records from start to finish literally every day. Just because you have to turn a record over after 20 minutes, it's a bit of a stretch to call that "special care and attention." It's a bug, not a feature. It's one of the reasons why records became obsolete in the first place.
It's funny that for 30 years after vinyl was phased out, people didn't seem to have this problem with CDs. Records were obsolete for the vast majority of the listening public. Then they became fashionable for some reason* and a bunch of people convinced themselves that they can't do without this technology that they did perfectly well without for decades. I guess I shouldn't complain about this since it means that the Lost Dogs record I bought for $20.00 when it came out in 2003 because hardly anybody cared about records anymore is now worth $500.00 (and something similar for every other Pearl Jam record I own from that interregnum between the phaseout and resurgence of vinyl).
Another thing about this phenomenon that I find funny is that I have a flip phone that I bought new in 2019. I am regularly mocked (in a friendly way) for using this "20th-century technology" by people who swear by a technology that Thomas Edison pioneered in the 19th century. Is there any other example of an outdated technology coming back around into vogue like this? Are people going to start bringing back the VCR? The brick-sized cell phone? Car windows that you have to roll down manually?
* It actually makes more sense to me that Generation Z would gravitate to records because they don't really have any experience with physical media, including CDs, and the novelty and tangibility of a record would have a certain appeal to them as a totem. It makes less sense to me that Generation X, which grew up with records and willingly abandoned them in favor of CDs, now turns around and pretends like none of it ever happened. If the average 50-year-old vinyl enthusiast had been a little more loyal to the format in the mid-1980s, maybe they could have sustained a market for it instead of allowing it to be phased out.
Special care and attention -way more than flipping the wax.
Lots of people own Lost Dogs. Great sounding record. Love to spin it. Priceless.
The flip phone probably isn’t old enough to be cool again and that’s probably why you are mocked. Rather enigmatic for someone arguing so vehemently against old technology to buy one.
Some things never become cool again, some things do. It seems pretty irrelevant to lump all consumer goods under one umbrella.
A great vinyl record isn’t a flip phone or automatic windows. Nether of those things have ever elicited an emotional response from me. I never got shivers opening up a flip phone or brought to tears by how special it was to roll down a car window manually.
I have a Jeep Patriot with a manual transmission, roll up windows and manually locked doors. My kids call it the Amish Jeep.
My Wrangler is the same. Power steering and brakes is about all I need. When I drive my wife's car, I find myself pressing the invisible clutch every time.
After 20 years, even owners of the OG would want another to spin , right?
Yep. Have it, and I was at the show, so when I spin it, it's an experience for me and it takes me back. I only spin it on very rare occasions now and when I do, I'm always afraid I'll mess it up. It never happens, but the thought is still there. As long a a reissue sounded as good I'd spin that much more frequently and would be glad to have it.
Listening to the cd works of coarse, but for me when I listen to a record that's all I'm doing and I'm in the moment. A cd I easily get distracted and do other things.
I don't understand this. Why would the format make a difference? How is a CD more distracting than a record?
It's not more distracting, but it's easier to get distracted. When I listen to a record for me personally, I sit down and that's what I'm doing because I have to be there to change sides. I don't listen to records every day, so when I do, I make sure I'm more in the moment and focused on it. Listening to something as a cd or digitally I do all the time, it's easier to just start doing other stuff at the same time because I don't have to focus on it as much, or I want something in the background. I don't put records on for background music. But that's just me.
Exactly. It’s simple math. You can throw on a 70 min cd and leave the house if you want. The cd will stop playing when it’s done.
Vinyl takes special care and attention, it’s kind of a pain in the ass, and it’s why I love it.
But this is entirely a self-created thing. Music takes special care and attention, not the format it's on. You either choose to actively listen or you don't, whether it's a CD or an LP. I sit down and listen to CDs and records from start to finish literally every day. Just because you have to turn a record over after 20 minutes, it's a bit of a stretch to call that "special care and attention." It's a bug, not a feature. It's one of the reasons why records became obsolete in the first place.
It's funny that for 30 years after vinyl was phased out, people didn't seem to have this problem with CDs. Records were obsolete for the vast majority of the listening public. Then they became fashionable for some reason* and a bunch of people convinced themselves that they can't do without this technology that they did perfectly well without for decades. I guess I shouldn't complain about this since it means that the Lost Dogs record I bought for $20.00 when it came out in 2003 because hardly anybody cared about records anymore is now worth $500.00 (and something similar for every other Pearl Jam record I own from that interregnum between the phaseout and resurgence of vinyl).
Another thing about this phenomenon that I find funny is that I have a flip phone that I bought new in 2019. I am regularly mocked (in a friendly way) for using this "20th-century technology" by people who swear by a technology that Thomas Edison pioneered in the 19th century. Is there any other example of an outdated technology coming back around into vogue like this? Are people going to start bringing back the VCR? The brick-sized cell phone? Car windows that you have to roll down manually?
* It actually makes more sense to me that Generation Z would gravitate to records because they don't really have any experience with physical media, including CDs, and the novelty and tangibility of a record would have a certain appeal to them as a totem. It makes less sense to me that Generation X, which grew up with records and willingly abandoned them in favor of CDs, now turns around and pretends like none of it ever happened. If the average 50-year-old vinyl enthusiast had been a little more loyal to the format in the mid-1980s, maybe they could have sustained a market for it instead of allowing it to be phased out.
Special care and attention -way more than flipping the wax.
Lots of people own Lost Dogs. Great sounding record. Love to spin it. Priceless.
The flip phone probably isn’t old enough to be cool again and that’s probably why you are mocked. Rather enigmatic for someone arguing so vehemently against old technology to buy one.
Some things never become cool again, some things do. It seems pretty irrelevant to lump all consumer goods under one umbrella.
A great vinyl record isn’t a flip phone or automatic windows. Nether of those things have ever elicited an emotional response from me. I never got shivers opening up a flip phone or brought to tears by how special it was to roll down a car window manually.
I have a Jeep Patriot with a manual transmission, roll up windows and manually locked doors. My kids call it the Amish Jeep.
My Wrangler is the same. Power steering and brakes is about all I need. When I drive my wife's car, I find myself pressing the invisible clutch every time.
My favourite was an old 80's Honda Civic I bought in my university days. We called it a Hondamatic. You shifted years, it had no clutch, but it didn't automatically change the gears, so you had to shift it. The problem being they made the brake pedal abnormally wide. So if you were going to change the gear, and used to driving a standard, you'd accidently stomp on the brake. Scared the crap out of one of my best friends a few times. Took me a few weeks to get used to not going for a clutch.
Comments
ABSOLUTELY THE F**K NOT!!!!!
Chicago 1 (August 20, 2016)
Chicago 2 (August 22, 2016)
Ft. Worth 1 (September 13, 2023)
Ft. Worth 2 (September 15, 2023)
The reason the Lost Dogs LP sells for a premium is that, in fact, lots of people do not own it. Lots of people do not own it because, when it came out, the number of people who were buying records was very small because the format had been phased out fifteen years earlier and had not yet become fashionable again. People used to react to seeing new records in my house like they react now to seeing me pull a flip phone out of my pocket. The premium on Lost Dogs has nothing to do with it sounding more special than other Pearl Jam LPs. It has to do with supply. If you look at the secondary-market sales prices of all of Pearl Jam's records, their value is in directly correlated with scarcity.
I'm not arguing against old technology, vehemently or otherwise. I drive a 2004-model car, have a satellite dish, listen to terrestrial radio, and don't have Wifi or a smartphone... and I have a record collection, including everything Pearl Jam has released except Benaroya Hall. I'm not dissing records; I'm commenting about the weird fetishization of them, to the point where someone can convince themselves that they can't pay attention to a CD the same way they pay attention to a record when that it is a completely self-created limitation. It's like people who say they don't carry cash because they're more likely to spend it than to charge something on a card. Why? Either way, it's an affirmative act. You choose to spend cash or not, just as you choose to use your debit or credit card, just as you choose whether to pay attention to music you just put on.
The reason the flip phone has not come back into vogue has little to do with coolness. It has to do with the fact that most people want smartphones. They want to able to have the Internet, including social media, at their fingertips at every moment. They want the other features that smartphones offer, like instant access to a library of digital entertainment. People moved away from the old technology because they prefer the new technology.
The other difference here is that I have never owned a smartphone, so these conveniences are not anything I have any experience with, and thus I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, whereas the majority of people who now swoon over records actually had the experience of abandoning that format because of the conveniences they thought that CDs provided. If these people loved records so much, they would have supported the format and we wouldn't have had a situation where there were hardly any record plants left by the 2000s. In this case, unlike with smartphones, people moved away from the old technology because they preferred the new technology, and then at some point they decided the new technology was actually lame and the old technology they abandoned was cool again.
Incidentally, if the flip phone ever does come back into fashion, it will be along the lines of the preceding sentence: because a significant number of people get tired of being constantly distracted by their devices and/or start to long for more real-world face-to-face interaction with other people. There was actually a story in the N.Y. Times recently-- in the Style section, notably-- about a group of high-school kids who have basically done this, getting rid of their smartphones. See https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/style/teens-social-media.html.
Lots of people own Lost Dogs. I think it’s only scarce in the wild (in good condition) which drives up the price.
Kids should spend more time face to face, perhaps they could get together and spin records and talk about music. Hell they could even get up in the middle of Side B and leave the house.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Yes please!
I'm ok with a re-release, but at the same time I don't think it's mind boggling. It was a limited edition release to begin with, maybe the band/10c intend to keep it that way. It was pretty clear in the announcement for it, that it was a limited run. It's possible they never reissue it. On the other hand, they could change their minds, but as it stands, they've done exactly what they said they would do. One time limited edition release. It's not mind boggling they did what they said they were going to do
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
When I drive my wife's car, I find myself pressing the invisible clutch every time.