Westboro Baptist Chuch continues the Devil’s work

Chip McFlennigan

I give this group a ton of credit for standing up for what the Bible ACTUALLY predominately preaches (hatred, discrimination, passing judgment, etc.). They have the courage to be true Christians in a society concerned about convenience and aesthetics and charades. They're more consistent with the God of Moses than 99% of Christians are.

That being said, I think they're scientifically illiterate, intellectual dwarfs who are sick in the head and completely useless as human beings. But, the more religious people generally are, the more mentally weak they tend to be. These guys are the cream of the crap.

Chip McFlennigan

Godfather. wrote:

Littell has notified the Pima County Sheriff's Department and has reached out to several other biker groups notifying them of their planned presence at Green's funeral. He crossed his fingers that the Hells Angels would join them.

"Nothing says stand back and be silent like a Hells Angels presence," he said.

Should we be happy that a known criminal organization is coming to terrorize a mostly law-abiding family which will no doubt have children present?

I don't see how this is a good thing at all.

Chip McFlennigan

Cosmo wrote:

I have a question...
Regarding the term, 'Real Christian'. Who gets to decide who is a 'real' Christian... and who isn't?
I ask this because I read statements condemning the Phelps Clan as not 'representing Christianity' from the very same people who say Al Qaeda speaks for all of Islam. Why can't the Westboro Baptist Church represent all of Christianity?
I mean, they quote from the Bible... right there, in Leviticus... homosexuality is an abomination, right? Don't Christians believe the Bible is the truth? And God judgement upon us is because we are so tolerant towards homosexuality... or, at least, it might be, right?
I remember when AIDS first hit the scene and there were bumperstickers that said, 'Hooray For AIDS' becuase 'Real Christians' thought God was punishing them for being gay by giving them GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency). It wasn't just the fanatical Phelps types... it was a lot of 'average Americans'. I saw this in the liberal Sodom of The West (a.k.a. Los Angeles, CA.). What was it like in East Dumfuk, Alabama?
...
Anyway... I detest the Phelps people and all of the hatred they spew. But, I don't know if I can say whether or not they are or aren't 'Real Christians'. What is a 'Real Christian', anyway?

+1. Brilliantly stated.

mikepegg44

johnny america wrote:

I give this group a ton of credit for standing up for what the Bible ACTUALLY predominately preaches (hatred, discrimination, passing judgment, etc.). They have the courage to be true Christians in a society concerned about convenience and aesthetics and charades. They're more consistent with the God of Moses than 99% of Christians are.

That being said, I think they're scientifically illiterate, intellectual dwarfs who are sick in the head and completely useless as human beings. But, the more religious people generally are, the more mentally weak they tend to be. These guys are the cream of the crap.

the god of moses and the past laws were then superceded by christ's teachings (christians), at least that is my understanding of christianity. The old testament gave way to the new. So to be true christians is not to act like the WBC. In stead they are almost denying that Christ was the son of God by their actions. Not saying other sects of christianity are better, but they certainly shouldn't be teaching this type of behavior.

Godfather.

johnny america wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Littell has notified the Pima County Sheriff's Department and has reached out to several other biker groups notifying them of their planned presence at Green's funeral. He crossed his fingers that the Hells Angels would join them.

"Nothing says stand back and be silent like a Hells Angels presence," he said.

Should we be happy that a known criminal organization is coming to terrorize a mostly law-abiding family which will no doubt have children present?

I don't see how this is a good thing at all.

I love it !...crime and politics are one in the same.

Godfather.

Chip McFlennigan

mikepegg44 wrote:

johnny america wrote:

I give this group a ton of credit for standing up for what the Bible ACTUALLY predominately preaches (hatred, discrimination, passing judgment, etc.). They have the courage to be true Christians in a society concerned about convenience and aesthetics and charades. They're more consistent with the God of Moses than 99% of Christians are.

That being said, I think they're scientifically illiterate, intellectual dwarfs who are sick in the head and completely useless as human beings. But, the more religious people generally are, the more mentally weak they tend to be. These guys are the cream of the crap.

the god of moses and the past laws were then superceded by christ's teachings (christians), at least that is my understanding of christianity. The old testament gave way to the new. So to be true christians is not to act like the WBC. In stead they are almost denying that Christ was the son of God by their actions. Not saying other sects of christianity are better, but they certainly shouldn't be teaching this type of behavior.

The New Testament is pretty tame compared to the Old (it's still kinda ridiculous, though). But, that leads me to wonder why anyone would follow such a ridiculous book then. You either have to ignore the God of the OT, which would mean that you clearly don't find Him to be infallible, OR, you'd have to accept him in both incarnations, which means you'd, by pure definition, be fine with things like murder and rape and selling your daughter into slavery. Pretty fucking stupid either way, in my opinion.

Your point is well said, though.

Chip McFlennigan

Godfather. wrote:

johnny america wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Littell has notified the Pima County Sheriff's Department and has reached out to several other biker groups notifying them of their planned presence at Green's funeral. He crossed his fingers that the Hells Angels would join them.

"Nothing says stand back and be silent like a Hells Angels presence," he said.

Should we be happy that a known criminal organization is coming to terrorize a mostly law-abiding family which will no doubt have children present?

I don't see how this is a good thing at all.

I love it !...crime and politics are one in the same.

Godfather.

Politics? I'm talking about small children potentially being assaulted or killed by a notoriously vile and hateful gang of criminals. What does that have to do with politics?

If we, as a society, are to look at something of that nature as a good thing, then what makes us any different than these sick fucks in the WBC that we're so ready to detest?

Some of the children in that family are too young to know that they've been indoctrinated into an insane cult. Don't put it past the chipper, quality individuals of Hell's Angels to attack a small child, either.

mikepegg44

johnny america wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

johnny america wrote:

I give this group a ton of credit for standing up for what the Bible ACTUALLY predominately preaches (hatred, discrimination, passing judgment, etc.). They have the courage to be true Christians in a society concerned about convenience and aesthetics and charades. They're more consistent with the God of Moses than 99% of Christians are.

That being said, I think they're scientifically illiterate, intellectual dwarfs who are sick in the head and completely useless as human beings. But, the more religious people generally are, the more mentally weak they tend to be. These guys are the cream of the crap.

the god of moses and the past laws were then superceded by christ's teachings (christians), at least that is my understanding of christianity. The old testament gave way to the new. So to be true christians is not to act like the WBC. In stead they are almost denying that Christ was the son of God by their actions. Not saying other sects of christianity are better, but they certainly shouldn't be teaching this type of behavior.

The New Testament is pretty tame compared to the Old (it's still kinda ridiculous, though). But, that leads me to wonder why anyone would follow such a ridiculous book then. You either have to ignore the God of the OT, which would mean that you clearly don't find Him to be infallible, OR, you'd have to accept him in both incarnations, which means you'd, by pure definition, be fine with things like murder and rape and selling your daughter into slavery. Pretty fucking stupid either way, in my opinion.

Your point is well said, though.

I agree to a point, however, I think that instead of saying that God is fallible you could simply assert he(?) decided to go a different path. Not necessarily that the first was "wrong" but that he decided to choose another path...hard to say...I mean, that certainly cannot be the only issue you have with christianity or any religion in general, they all seem like following magic, however that is what separates them and their followers, is the belief in the unknown, or faith.

JOEJOEJOE

If I can be blunt here, perhaps "security" being handled by an outlaw group that isn't bound by the limits of law enforcement is a good idea.

Chip McFlennigan

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

If I can be blunt here, perhaps "security" being handled by an outlaw group that isn't bound by the limits of law enforcement is a good idea.

Then you're no better than the members of the WBC.

They should be put in harm's way because their opinions offend people who harbor different opinions. What kind of people who feel that way can call themselves civilized with a straight face?

Chip McFlennigan

mikepegg44 wrote:

I agree to a point, however, I think that instead of saying that God is fallible you could simply assert he(?) decided to go a different path. Not necessarily that the first was "wrong" but that he decided to choose another path...hard to say...I mean, that certainly cannot be the only issue you have with christianity or any religion in general, they all seem like following magic, however that is what separates them and their followers, is the belief in the unknown, or faith.

Your thoughts are in the right place, but look at it like this: God, despite changing His mind, is still infallible. You live your life following what God currently wants, and then, mere moments before you die, God decides to switch directions and rules up again. So now, you spent an entire lifetime serving God, but, hey, now you're not serving His will anymore, and given His track record, He's probably not having it. Thus, you're going to be eternally punished. But hey, He still loves you.

Doesn't seem to make any sense. In fact, the idea of an invisible guy who controls everything doesn't really have much logic behind it to begin with.

JOEJOEJOE

johnny america wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

If I can be blunt here, perhaps "security" being handled by an outlaw group that isn't bound by the limits of law enforcement is a good idea.

Then you're no better than the members of the WBC.

They should be put in harm's way because their opinions offend people who harbor different opinions. What kind of people who feel that way can call themselves civilized with a straight face?

1. They are doing more then offering their opinions (which they have the right to do)...they are disrupting a somber event that represents a huge tragedy.

2. They shouldn't be put in harms way, but they should be put on notice that their actions are inappropriate, and won't be tolerated.

samsonite

johnny america wrote:

I give this group a ton of credit for standing up for what the Bible ACTUALLY predominately preaches (hatred, discrimination, passing judgment, etc.). They have the courage to be true Christians in a society concerned about convenience and aesthetics and charades. They're more consistent with the God of Moses than 99% of Christians are.

That being said, I think they're scientifically illiterate, intellectual dwarfs who are sick in the head and completely useless as human beings. But, the more religious people generally are, the more mentally weak they tend to be. These guys are the cream of the crap.

this "religious people are ignorant" argument is... well, ignorant. it's a classic "you don't agree with me so you must be dumb" argument which is completely useless. there are plenty of people who are ignorant; religious, atheist, agnostic, etc. at the same time, there are plenty of people who are intellectual giants; religious, atheist, agnostic, etc.

Godfather.

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

If I can be blunt here, perhaps "security" being handled by an outlaw group that isn't bound by the limits of law enforcement is a good idea.

Godfather.

norm

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/arizon ... index.html

Cosmo

MotoDC wrote:

Would you ever challenge the assertion (or at least its implications) that suicide bombers and arab terrorists in general were not "real Muslims"? Then why do you feel the need to challenge this assertion about "real Christians"?

...
I am not qualified to make that judgement call... to who is a good Muslim and who is a bad one. If I fully understood the diety that underlies that religion, then, I'd be able to tell you.
I can tell you that terrorists display horrible behaviour and they are horrible examples of Human Beings... but, I am not tasked to grade the validity of religious followers.

MotoDC wrote:

That aside, I'll attempt to answer some of your questions...

Yes, "real Christians" consider homosexuality to be a sin. However, the extent to which homosexuals have been vilified is not necessarily a "real Christian" theme. I mean, it's not even in the 10 Commandments, so I'm not real sure about how "bad" (to put it mundanely) a sin homosexuality is.

I may not have many posts, but I've been on this board a long time. I can't remember a single post where anyone said al Quaeda speaks for all of Islam. I'm sure there are people here who are less tolerant of Islam than you, but that's not quite the same thing.

Anyhow, we can at least agree that Phelps is a moron and a sonofabitch..

...
Again... my point is... who gets to decide who is a 'Real Christian' and who is not? From one standpoint, Rev. Phelps is said to be a bad Christian, but from his point of view, he is following fundamental teachings of the Christian church. I think people feel better when they try to distance the ones on the extreme ends of the religious scales from their own personal beliefs... it makes people feel better the say Rev. Phelps is not a Christian... even though they harbor similar, yet not so vile, viewpoints. That way, it makes it easier to say you are against Gay Marriage because homosexuality is an abomination, according to the Bible... and pretend not be a distant relative to Rev. Phelps.
And what is the criteria of a 'Real Christian'? Do real Christians follow the 10 Commandments? What about that one about working on Sunday? And on homosexuality... what is the stance of Real Christians?
Point being... unless you are Jesus... you can't be the one who decides who is Real or Good and who is not, right?

JOEJOEJOE

I am surprised this Phelps fella doesn't protest against gay businesses that are open on Sunday!

samsonite

Cosmo wrote:

Again... my point is... who gets to decide who is a 'Real Christian' and who is not? From one standpoint, Rev. Phelps is said to be a bad Christian, but from his point of view, he is following fundamental teachings of the Christian church. I think people feel better when they try to distance the ones on the extreme ends of the religious scales from their own personal beliefs... it makes people feel better the say Rev. Phelps is not a Christian... even though they harbor similar, yet not so vile, viewpoints. That way, it makes it easier to say you are against Gay Marriage because homosexuality is an abomination, according to the Bible... and pretend not be a distant relative to Rev. Phelps.
And what is the criteria of a 'Real Christian'? Do real Christians follow the 10 Commandments? What about that one about working on Sunday? And on homosexuality... what is the stance of Real Christians?
Point being... unless you are Jesus... you can't be the one who decides who is Real or Good and who is not, right?

the trouble with this "from his point of view" reasoning is it can be applied to loughner (the shooter)... from his point of view he was doing the right thing. same with terrorists, or anyone else for that matter.

the trouble with saying rev phelps actions are in line with Christian teachings is that in the entire Bible there are 3 passages which address homosexuality. on the other hand there are COUNTLESS passages which instruct us to LOVE one another, so in my estimation God (and Christianity) is far more concerned with how we treat and love one another than anyone's homosexual lifestyle. what rev phelps is doing is not done in or out of love for people, that makes his actions less than Christian, in my book.

Cosmo

spamsonite wrote:

the trouble with this "from his point of view" reasoning is it can be applied to loughner (the shooter)... from his point of view he was doing the right thing. same with terrorists, or anyone else for that matter.

the trouble with saying rev phelps actions are in line with Christian teachings is that in the entire Bible there are 3 passages which address homosexuality. on the other hand there are COUNTLESS passages which instruct us to LOVE one another, so in my estimation God (and Christianity) is far more concerned with how we treat and love one another than anyone's homosexual lifestyle. what rev phelps is doing is not done in or out of love for people, that makes his actions less than Christian, in my book.

...
The trouble with it is this... there is no authority who gets to be the one who says what is good and what is bad. Yes, Phelps and Loughner may see themselves and their actions in the 'right', but that does not make it true... and conversely, you seeing is as wrong is not the absolute truth. Phelps and Loughner are wrong when applied within the boundaries of human descency and laws against murder... but, when 'faith' and 'belief' are the only constraints... all bets are off.
Even though Homosexuality is only mentioned in the Bible 3 times... God creating Adam only appears once. What does that mean? It has nothing to do with the number of times something is mentioned... is it? Christians STILL do not approve of homosexuality, otherwise, they would not be quoting Biblical scripture as points in the debate. They disapprove of homosexuality, same as Phelps... for the same REASONS as Phelps... they just disapprove at a much lower volume.
...
And yes... 'In your book'... according to you. Are you the authority and the one tasked to define who is a Real Christian and who is not? My guess is, your answer will be 'No'.
That is the point I am trying to make.

Cosmo

P.S.
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020xbBC1Nv ... _1280.jpeg