guns and bullets

g under p

HeidiJam wrote:

Another way to reduce violent crime is to not allow welfare recipients to have children. I read a study a while back where, when violent crime was at its lowest, abortion (in inner cities, welfare families) was at its highest. But I am sure many of you here would argue that its against their rights...

Wow....OMGoodness I gather from this only welfare recipients are destined to violent crimes so THIS porposal is a viable deterrant. Yeah Right!

Peace

ed243421

Godfather. wrote:

quote from emmi; "Wanting to change the world is a bad thing now? Fair enough, not everyone wants to change it for the better, but some (dare I say most) people do! People want to puts laws in place that could save lives and you (not specifically only you) just sit there and dismiss it with a simple "bad guys are gonna do bad stuff" or "don't take away my rights!".

Unbe-fucking-lievable!
*****************************************************************************************

you have no idea what you're talking about(not specifically only you)this ain't the high school student council.
it's (not specifically only you) people with your way of thinking that choke this country with dumb-ass laws that do little to solve any problem and you(not specifically only you) sit there and say "we will be safe from bad guys if we make another law" or "please make another law to limit my rights a little more"

ub-un-fucking-be-liev-aaable-yo-dam-self !......

emmi
please do not listen to old people who are afraid of change
you do have an idea of what you are talking about
stricter gun laws would not "choke this country" like the gun-worshipers seem to think it would
some people do not seem to realize that some laws have made us safer from "bad guys"
some people, who fear change, believe that if they had been born in a different country,
they would not be able to own a gun,
but because they were born in america,
it is their "god"-given right

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

People are attacking guns and are failing to realize and taking guns away will not reduce violent crime. It will reduce gun crime yes, but not violent crime. So my question is, if guns are out of the question and other tools are used to do the killings, will you have issue and want regulation on that tool say a knife? If not why?

thanks.

it will reduce gun crime but not violent crime? isnt a gun crime a violent crime? those bodies lying on the ground in Tucson looked like they were victims of a pretty violent crime.

I've already highlighted your Japan statistic 3 times... even without gun crime being included you have 3 times the murder rate of Japan... add in the gun deaths and its 16 times higher than Japan.

simply study that fact...

here's some more.

In 2003, there were 30,136 firearm-related deaths in the United States; 16,907 (56%) suicides, 11,920 (40%) homicides (including 347 deaths due to legal intervention/war), and 962 (3%) undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths.

CDC/National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports 1999-2003 http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars



* The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.



* The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.



* The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children: 26 industrialized countries.
MMWR. 1997;46:101-105.

Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q. 1996;49:230-235.

So what you are syaing is that you only care about gun crime, you don't care about other violent crime. Which per capita is higher in the UK than in the US.

ed243421

Byrnzie wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Another way to reduce violent crime is to not allow welfare recipients to have children.

wow... I am speechless...

byrnzie
could you help answer this question?
who else, other than heidi, believed forcing the extinction of millions of people
from the face of the earth
would be a good idea?

Blockhead

ed243421 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Another way to reduce violent crime is to not allow welfare recipients to have children.

wow... I am speechless...

byrnzie
could you help answer this question?
who else, other than heidi, believed forcing the extinction of millions of people
from the face of the earth
would be a good idea?

Why do you think its fine to have children that you can't take care of or afford??? I think from you next answer you will be able to see where I am going with this.

g under p

usamamasan1 wrote:

the whako that shot up Tucson could have done it from a safe distance with a good hunting rifle, from cover, from 200 yards using more lethal rounds than a handgun. So even if handguns were outlawed, a crazy man could still accomplish their end game.

If he shot from 200 yards the number nof people would likely to be less. Being from that sniper like distance after the first shot people would head for cover. Therefore the body count would likely be less. A hand with that number in the magazine would likely be a higher body count.

Peace

dunkman

HeidiJam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

People are attacking guns and are failing to realize and taking guns away will not reduce violent crime. It will reduce gun crime yes, but not violent crime. So my question is, if guns are out of the question and other tools are used to do the killings, will you have issue and want regulation on that tool say a knife? If not why?

thanks.

it will reduce gun crime but not violent crime? isnt a gun crime a violent crime? those bodies lying on the ground in Tucson looked like they were victims of a pretty violent crime.

I've already highlighted your Japan statistic 3 times... even without gun crime being included you have 3 times the murder rate of Japan... add in the gun deaths and its 16 times higher than Japan.

simply study that fact...

here's some more.

In 2003, there were 30,136 firearm-related deaths in the United States; 16,907 (56%) suicides, 11,920 (40%) homicides (including 347 deaths due to legal intervention/war), and 962 (3%) undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths.

CDC/National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports 1999-2003 http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars



* The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.



* The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.



* The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children: 26 industrialized countries.
MMWR. 1997;46:101-105.

Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q. 1996;49:230-235.

So what you are syaing is that you only care about gun crime, you don't care about other violent crime. Which per capita is higher in the UK than in the US.

ummmmmm.. the thread is titled "guns and bullets"

I acknowledge, and have already acknowledged, our crime rate is per capita higher than yours... it disturbs me, i hope we can tackle it head on... I think kids today have no respect for law and have no fear of any punishment. Something needs to change.

now i've answered your point answer mine... doesnt the US gun death rates concern you? that they are so vast in relation to other countries around the world? are you completely opposed to even acknowledging there is a problem and that perhaps there might have to be a societal and political push to rectify the horrific figures?

Godfather.

ed243421 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

quote from emmi; "Wanting to change the world is a bad thing now? Fair enough, not everyone wants to change it for the better, but some (dare I say most) people do! People want to puts laws in place that could save lives and you (not specifically only you) just sit there and dismiss it with a simple "bad guys are gonna do bad stuff" or "don't take away my rights!".

Unbe-fucking-lievable!
*****************************************************************************************

you have no idea what you're talking about(not specifically only you)this ain't the high school student council.
it's (not specifically only you) people with your way of thinking that choke this country with dumb-ass laws that do little to solve any problem and you(not specifically only you) sit there and say "we will be safe from bad guys if we make another law" or "please make another law to limit my rights a little more"

ub-un-fucking-be-liev-aaable-yo-dam-self !......

emmi
please do not listen to old people who are afraid of change
you do have an idea of what you are talking about
stricter gun laws would not "choke this country" like the gun-worshipers seem to think it would
some people do not seem to realize that some laws have made us safer from "bad guys"
some people, who fear change, believe that if they had been born in a different country,
they would not be able to own a gun,
but because they were born in america,
it is their "god"-given right

ed to the rescue !.......good boy ed.
now run along.
p.s...having fun yet ?

Godfather.

mikepegg44

dunkman wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

can anyone tell me why its not ok to own those? cos they'd be mighty fucking handy in the inevitable and glorious uprising of the future militia? I don't think the US Army is scared of citizens with a handgun... but they might be concerned if Chubby Brookstein from Oklahama has 24 surface to air missiles in his garage... legally obtained of course.

if you follow that beloved line of "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"...

arent howitzers arms? tanks? grenades?

i also like the use of the word 'regulated'... it implies some form of regulation...

I should let you know that you are talking to a libertarian, so it shouldn't surprise you that I would say until someone/something else's rights are violated, I should be allowed to own just about anything I want. howitzer, big giant vats of acid, thousands of drums of oil, whatever I want to spend my money on I should be able to do it, again as long as it doesn't violate someone else's rights what is the problem?

and your stance on North Korea and Iran having nuclear weapons?

I have said it quite a few times on here, I could care less who has nuclear weapons...I have very little faith in the idea that any country leader would want to jeopardize his position in the world by blowing it all up...

dunkman

* Firearm-associated family and intimate assaults are 12 times more likely to be fatal than those not associated with firearms.

Saltzman LE. Weapon involvement and injury outcomes in family and intimate assaults.
Journal of the American Medical Association 1992; 267:3043 .

dunkman

mikepegg44 wrote:

I have said it quite a few times on here, I could care less who has nuclear weapons...I have very little faith in the idea that any country leader would want to jeopardize his position in the world by blowing it all up...

you could care less? that means you do care

mikepegg44

dunkman wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I have said it quite a few times on here, I could care less who has nuclear weapons...I have very little faith in the idea that any country leader would want to jeopardize his position in the world by blowing it all up...

you could care less? that means you do care

right, and while at work it behooves me to careful proof read every single thing...nice catch...would you like a cookie

dunkman

Godfather. wrote:

quote from emmi; "Wanting to change the world is a bad thing now? Fair enough, not everyone wants to change it for the better, but some (dare I say most) people do! People want to puts laws in place that could save lives and you (not specifically only you) just sit there and dismiss it with a simple "bad guys are gonna do bad stuff" or "don't take away my rights!".

Unbe-fucking-lievable!
*****************************************************************************************

you have no idea what you're talking about(not specifically only you)this ain't the high school student council.
it's (not specifically only you) people with your way of thinking that choke this country with dumb-ass laws that do little to solve any problem and you(not specifically only you) sit there and say "we will be safe from bad guys if we make another law" or "please make another law to limit my rights a little more"

ub-un-fucking-be-liev-aaable-yo-dam-self !......

Godfather.

this highlights my point... if someone can't even use the basic fucking quote function on a forum then they certainly shouldnt be allowed to own a gun.

mikepegg44

dunkman wrote:

* Firearm-associated family and intimate assaults are 12 times more likely to be fatal than those not associated with firearms.

Saltzman LE. Weapon involvement and injury outcomes in family and intimate assaults.
Journal of the American Medical Association 1992; 267:3043 .

you still haven't pointed out why I should be punished because some other idiot cannot handle things

dunkman

mikepegg44 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I have said it quite a few times on here, I could care less who has nuclear weapons...I have very little faith in the idea that any country leader would want to jeopardize his position in the world by blowing it all up...

you could care less? that means you do care

right, and while at work it behooves me to careful proof read every single thing...nice catch...would you like a cookie

it's nothing to do with proof-reading... it's an Americanism that's crept into your language and makes zero sense... a lot of your countrymen do it... it annoys the fuck out of me... thankfully i can't access a gun as it annoys me that much i might have went on a rampage.

have a helpful reminder on me...

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

ummmmmm.. the thread is titled "guns and bullets"

I acknowledge, and have already acknowledged, our crime rate is per capita higher than yours... it disturbs me, i hope we can tackle it head on... I think kids today have no respect for law and have no fear of any punishment. Something needs to change.

now i've answered your point answer mine... doesnt the US gun death rates concern you? that they are so vast in relation to other countries around the world? are you completely opposed to even acknowledging there is a problem and that perhaps there might have to be a societal and political push to rectify the horrific figures?

Yes the gun death rate concerns me, and I am also for regulation and annual renewals ( i have said before) But I think the way the culture is here (especially inner city) is the real issue. Its not so much that they are crazy nut murders, its their lifestyle, and the blatant disregard for other peoples lives. And I think most if not all of it stems from prenting. Most are welfare families, with 80% being single parent, and that parent has mulitple kids. My wife works for in an innercity school in Cincinnati, Ohio, she teaches 6th grade english, and some of the 6th graders have brought in guns. Its more of a culture and lifestyle than anything else. I am not sure how you tackle that social issue, when political parties exploit the poor for their gain, and keeps them poor.

dunkman

mikepegg44 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

* Firearm-associated family and intimate assaults are 12 times more likely to be fatal than those not associated with firearms.

Saltzman LE. Weapon involvement and injury outcomes in family and intimate assaults.
Journal of the American Medical Association 1992; 267:3043 .

you still haven't pointed out why I should be punished because some other idiot cannot handle things

who is punishing you? You might have to go through some more rigourous checks, some medical examination, fill in more forms, perhaps sign up to a gun register somewhere with the govt... hardly punishment.

and you havent responded to these:-

The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.


* The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.


* The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children: 26 industrialized countries.MMWR. 1997;46:101-105.Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q. 1996;49:230-235.

dunkman

HeidiJam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

ummmmmm.. the thread is titled "guns and bullets"

I acknowledge, and have already acknowledged, our crime rate is per capita higher than yours... it disturbs me, i hope we can tackle it head on... I think kids today have no respect for law and have no fear of any punishment. Something needs to change.

now i've answered your point answer mine... doesnt the US gun death rates concern you? that they are so vast in relation to other countries around the world? are you completely opposed to even acknowledging there is a problem and that perhaps there might have to be a societal and political push to rectify the horrific figures?

Yes the gun death rate concerns me, and I am also for regulation and annual renewals ( i have said before) But I think the way the culture is here (especially inner city) is the real issue. Its not so much that they are crazy nut murders, its their lifestyle, and the blatant disregard for other peoples lives. And I think most if not all of it stems from prenting. Most are welfare families, with 80% being single parent, and that parent has mulitple kids. My wife works for in an innercity school in Cincinnati, Ohio, she teaches 6th grade english, and some of the 6th graders have brought in guns. Its more of a culture and lifestyle than anything else. I am not sure how you tackle that social issue, when political parties exploit the poor for their gain, and keeps them poor.

yeah, i would agree... your culture will play a huge part of the death rates... it doesnt explains statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that, on average, one child every three days died in accidental firearm incidents in the United States from 2000 to 2005.

but at least we have recognised each others countries have certain issues and problems.

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

yeah, i would agree... your culture will play a huge part of the death rates... it doesnt explains statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that, on average, one child every three days died in accidental firearm incidents in the United States from 2000 to 2005.

but at least we have recognised each others countries have certain issues and problems.

Agree, Its hard for me to believe how irresponsible a parent could be, to not take every percaution necessary locking up a gun (trigger lock, Safe, etc.) with children in a house. Hell my shot gun is in pieces in my safe, so even if anybody did get in there, they would have to put it together. I think the reason I value owning a gun so much, is that I live in an area that is very close to innercity areas, college hill, and section 8 housing. The culture by where I live is violence by gun, I have two beautiful daughter and wife, I want to make sure that I am at least even with criminals.

mikepegg44

dunkman wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

* Firearm-associated family and intimate assaults are 12 times more likely to be fatal than those not associated with firearms.

Saltzman LE. Weapon involvement and injury outcomes in family and intimate assaults.
Journal of the American Medical Association 1992; 267:3043 .

you still haven't pointed out why I should be punished because some other idiot cannot handle things

who is punishing you? You might have to go through some more rigourous checks, some medical examination, fill in more forms, perhaps sign up to a gun register somewhere with the govt... hardly punishment.

and you havent responded to these:-

The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.[/size][/b]

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.


* The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.

* The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

I have responded...we have a violence problem on a societal level here that goes much deeper than access to fire arms. I don't believe that attempting to make it a little more difficult for people to buy fire arms is the solution to that problem. I suggest you head on down to lake and chicago in minneapolis and go drinking for a night and tell me that guns are the problem and the only reason why violent acts are committed. Quite frankly I don't care if gang members kill each other everyday...I wish we could make it easier for them to do so without endangering other peoples lives.

Having to do anything extra is a punishment, all that stuff may seem like a very simple process to you, but I can tell you as a government employee, nothing is easy and painless when it comes to dealing with our government...it is a response to what a minority of people cannot handle that makes it harder for law abiding citizens to go through life. Anything that makes my life harder as a result of someone else's idiocy is bad policy. If someone else commits murder it shouldn't affect my life. Sucks they did it, sucks for the victims, but if someone gets shot in arizona it should not effect my life in minnesota. Plain and simple. You may think that is harsh or whatever, but LAWS ARE NOT THE ANSWER every time something like this happens. The government cannot and will not stop our violent society. That is a socio-economic issue, one that they have proven time and time again they are incapable of handling...or maybe it is because laws will never change it, only the people can do that.
I don't know, it is clear to me that you are not listening to the answers you get, just throwing out facts that have been conceded. Are we a violent nation, yes, do I think that all things evil can be stopped by the government...hell no. If you cannot understand me by now I don't know what to tell you. We have a different philosophy on what life should be like...