More Documents Released by WikiLeaks

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
edited December 2010 in A Moving Train
interesting....i wonder what is going to come out of this latest release of information...

NYT: Cables shine light into secret diplomatic channels


The confidential material was obtained by WikiLeaks and released despite requests by the U.S. government not to do so

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40405218/ns ... ork_times/

WASHINGTON — A cache of a quarter-million confidential American diplomatic cables, most of them from the past three years, provides an unprecedented look at backroom bargaining by embassies around the world, brutally candid views of foreign leaders and frank assessments of nuclear and terrorist threats.

Some of the cables, made available to The New York Times and several other news organizations, were written as recently as late February, revealing the Obama administration’s exchanges over crises and conflicts. The material was originally obtained by WikiLeaks, an organization devoted to revealing secret documents. WikiLeaks intends to make the archive public on its Web site in batches, beginning Sunday.

The anticipated disclosure of the cables is already sending shudders through the diplomatic establishment, and could conceivably strain relations with some countries, influencing international affairs in ways that are impossible to predict.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and American ambassadors around the world have been contacting foreign officials in recent days to alert them to the expected disclosures. On Saturday, the State Department’s legal adviser, Harold Hongju Koh, wrote to a lawyer for WikiLeaks informing the organization that the distribution of the cables was illegal and could endanger lives, disrupt military and counterterrorism operations and undermine international cooperation against nuclear proliferation and other threats.

The cables, a huge sampling of the daily traffic between the State Department and some 270 embassies and consulates, amount to a secret chronicle of the United States’ relations with the world in an age of war and terrorism. Among their revelations, to be detailed in The Times in coming days:

— A dangerous standoff with Pakistan over nuclear fuel: Since 2007, the United States has mounted a highly secret effort, so far unsuccessful, to remove from a Pakistani research reactor highly enriched uranium that American officials fear could be diverted for use in an illicit nuclear device. In May 2009, Ambassador Anne W. Patterson reported that Pakistan was refusing to schedule a visit by American technical experts because, as a Pakistani official said, “if the local media got word of the fuel removal, ‘they certainly would portray it as the United States taking Pakistan’s nuclear weapons,’ he argued.”

— Gaming out an eventual collapse of North Korea: American and South Korean officials have discussed the prospects for a unified Korea, should the North’s economic troubles and political transition lead the state to implode. The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.

— Bargaining to empty the Guantánamo Bay prison: When American diplomats pressed other countries to resettle detainees, they became reluctant players in a State Department version of “Let’s Make a Deal.” Slovenia was told to take a prisoner if it wanted to meet with President Obama, while the island nation of Kiribati was offered incentives worth millions of dollars to take in a group of detainees, cables from diplomats recounted. The Americans, meanwhile, suggested that accepting more prisoners would be “a low-cost way for Belgium to attain prominence in Europe.”

— Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government: When Afghanistan’s vice president visited the United Arab Emirates last year, local authorities working with the Drug Enforcement Administration discovered that he was carrying $52 million in cash. With wry understatement, a cable from the American Embassy in Kabul called the money “a significant amount” that the official, Ahmed Zia Massoud, “was ultimately allowed to keep without revealing the money’s origin or destination.” (Mr. Massoud denies taking any money out of Afghanistan.)

— A global computer hacking effort: China’s Politburo directed the intrusion into Google’s computer systems in that country, a Chinese contact told the American Embassy in Beijing in January, one cable reported. The Google hacking was part of a coordinated campaign of computer sabotage carried out by government operatives, private security experts and Internet outlaws recruited by the Chinese government. They have broken into American government computers and those of Western allies, the Dalai Lama and American businesses since 2002, cables said.

— Mixed records against terrorism: Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups like Al Qaeda, and the tiny Persian Gulf state of Qatar, a generous host to the American military for years, was the “worst in the region” in counterterrorism efforts, according to a State Department cable last December. Qatar’s security service was “hesitant to act against known terrorists out of concern for appearing to be aligned with the U.S. and provoking reprisals,” the cable said.

— An intriguing alliance: American diplomats in Rome reported in 2009 on what their Italian contacts described as an extraordinarily close relationship between Vladimir V. Putin, the Russian prime minister, and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister and business magnate, including “lavish gifts,” lucrative energy contracts and a “shadowy” Russian-speaking Italian go-between. They wrote that Mr. Berlusconi “appears increasingly to be the mouthpiece of Putin” in Europe. The diplomats also noted that while Mr. Putin enjoys supremacy over all other public figures in Russia, he is undermined by an unmanageable bureaucracy that often ignores his edicts.

— Arms deliveries to militants: Cables describe the United States’ failing struggle to prevent Syria from supplying arms to Hezbollah in Lebanon, which has amassed a huge stockpile since its 2006 war with Israel. One week after President Bashar al-Assad promised a top State Department official that he would not send “new” arms to Hezbollah, the United States complained that it had information that Syria was providing increasingly sophisticated weapons to the group.

— Clashes with Europe over human rights: American officials sharply warned Germany in 2007 not to enforce arrest warrants for Central Intelligence Agency officers involved in a bungled operation in which an innocent German citizen with the same name as a suspected militant was mistakenly kidnapped and held for months in Afghanistan. A senior American diplomat told a German official “that our intention was not to threaten Germany, but rather to urge that the German government weigh carefully at every step of the way the implications for relations with the U.S.”

The 251,287 cables, first acquired by WikiLeaks, were provided to The Times by an intermediary on the condition of anonymity. Many are unclassified, and none are marked “top secret,” the government’s most secure communications status. But some 11,000 are classified “secret,” 9,000 are labeled “noforn,” shorthand for material considered too delicate to be shared with any foreign government, and 4,000 are designated both secret and noforn.

Many more cables name diplomats’ confidential sources, from foreign legislators and military officers to human rights activists and journalists, often with a warning to Washington: “Please protect” or “Strictly protect.”

The Times has withheld from articles and removed from documents it is posting online the names of some people who spoke privately to diplomats and might be at risk if they were publicly identified. The Times is also withholding some passages or entire cables whose disclosure could compromise American intelligence efforts.

Terrorism’s shadow
The cables show that nearly a decade after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the dark shadow of terrorism still dominates the United States’ relations with the world. They depict the Obama administration struggling to sort out which Pakistanis are trustworthy partners against Al Qaeda, adding Australians who have disappeared in the Middle East to terrorist watch lists, and assessing whether a lurking rickshaw driver in Lahore, Pakistan, was awaiting fares or conducting surveillance of the road to the American Consulate.

They show American officials managing relations with a China on the rise and a Russia retreating from democracy. They document years of painstaking effort to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon — and of worry about a possible Israeli strike on Iran with the same goal.

Even when they recount events that are already known, the cables offer remarkable details.

For instance, it has been previously reported that the Yemeni government has sought to cover up the American role in missile strikes against the local branch of Al Qaeda. But a cable’s fly-on-the-wall account of a January meeting between the Yemeni president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, and Gen. David H. Petraeus, then the American commander in the Middle East, is nonetheless breathtaking.

“We’ll continue saying the bombs are ours, not yours,” Mr. Saleh said, according to the cable sent by the American ambassador, prompting Yemen’s deputy prime minister to “joke that he had just ‘lied’ by telling Parliament” that Yemeni forces had carried out the strikes.

Mr. Saleh, who at other times resisted American counterterrorism requests, was in a lighthearted mood. The authoritarian ruler of a conservative Muslim country, Mr. Saleh complains of smuggling from nearby Djibouti, but tells General Petraeus that his concerns are drugs and weapons, not whiskey, “provided it’s good whiskey.”

Likewise, press reports detailed the unhappiness of the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, when he was not permitted to set up his tent in Manhattan or to visit ground zero during a United Nations session last year

But the cables add to the tale a touch of scandal and alarm. They describe the volatile Libyan leader as rarely without the companionship of “his senior Ukrainian nurse,” described as “a voluptuous blonde.” They reveal that Colonel Qaddafi was so upset by his reception in New York that he balked at carrying out a promise to return dangerous enriched uranium to Russia. The American ambassador to Libya told Colonel Qaddafi’s son “that the Libyan government had chosen a very dangerous venue to express its pique,” a cable reported to Washington.

The cables also disclose frank comments behind closed doors. Dispatches from early this year, for instance, quote the aging monarch of Saudi Arabia, King Abdullah, as speaking scathingly about the leaders of Iraq and Pakistan.

Speaking to another Iraqi official about Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, the Iraqi prime minister, King Abdullah said, “You and Iraq are in my heart, but that man is not.” The king called President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan the greatest obstacle to that country’s progress. “When the head is rotten,” he said, “it affects the whole body.”

The American ambassador to Eritrea reported last year that “Eritrean officials are ignorant or lying” in denying that they were supporting the Shabab, a militant Islamist group in Somalia. The cable then mused about which seemed more likely.

As he left Zimbabwe in 2007 after three years as ambassador, Christopher W. Dell wrote a sardonic account of Robert Mugabe, that country’s aging and erratic leader. The cable called Mr. Mugabe “a brilliant tactician” but mocked “his deep ignorance on economic issues (coupled with the belief that his 18 doctorates give him the authority to suspend the laws of economics).”

The possibility that a large number of diplomatic cables might become public has been discussed in government and media circles since May. That was when, in an online chat, an Army intelligence analyst, Pfc. Bradley Manning, described having downloaded from a military computer system many classified documents, including “260,000 State Department cables from embassies and consulates all over the world.” In an online discussion with Adrian Lamo, a computer hacker, Private Manning said he had delivered the cables and other documents to WikiLeaks.

Mr. Lamo reported Private Manning’s disclosures to federal authorities, and Private Manning was arrested. He has been charged with illegally leaking classified information and faces a possible court-martial and, if convicted, a lengthy prison term.

In July and October, The Times, the British newspaper The Guardian and the German magazine Der Spiegel published articles based on documents about Afghanistan and Iraq. Those collections of dispatches were placed online by WikiLeaks, with selective redactions of the Afghan documents and much heavier redactions of the Iraq reports. The group has said it intends to post the documents in the current trove as well, after editing to remove the names of confidential sources and other details.

Fodder for historians
Traditionally, most diplomatic cables remain secret for decades, providing fodder for historians only when the participants are long retired or dead. The State Department’s unclassified history series, entitled “Foreign Relations of the United States,” has reached only the year 1972.

While an overwhelming majority of the quarter-million cables provided to The Times are from the post-9/11 era, several hundred date from 1966 to the 1990s. Some show diplomats struggling to make sense of major events whose future course they could not guess.

In a 1979 cable to Washington, Bruce Laingen, an American diplomat in Teheran, mused with a knowing tone about the Iranian revolution that had just occurred: “Perhaps the single dominant aspect of the Persian psyche is an overriding egoism,” Mr. Laingen wrote, offering tips on exploiting this psyche in negotiations with the new government. Less than three months later, Mr. Laingen and his colleagues would be taken hostage by radical Iranian students, hurling the Carter administration into crisis and, perhaps, demonstrating the hazards of diplomatic hubris.

In 1989, an American diplomat in Panama City mulled over the options open to Gen. Manuel Noriega, the Panamanian leader, who was facing narcotics charges in the United States and intense domestic and international political pressure to step down. The cable called General Noriega “a master of survival”; its author appeared to have no inkling that one week later, the United States would invade Panama to unseat General Noriega and arrest him.

In 1990, an American diplomat sent an excited dispatch from Cape Town: he had just learned from a lawyer for Nelson Mandela that Mr. Mandela’s 27-year imprisonment was to end. The cable conveys the momentous changes about to begin for South Africa, even as it discusses preparations for an impending visit from the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson.

The voluminous traffic of more recent years — well over half of the quarter-million cables date from 2007 or later — show American officials struggling with events whose outcomes are far from sure. To read through them is to become a global voyeur, immersed in the jawboning, inducements and penalties the United States wields in trying to have its way with a recalcitrant world.

In an era of satellites and fiber-optic links, the diplomatic cable retains the archaic name of an earlier technological era. It has long been the tool for the secretary of state to dispatch orders to the field and for ambassadors and political officers to send their analyses back to Washington.

The cables come with their own lexicon: “codel,” for a visiting Congressional delegation; “visas viper,” for a report on a person considered dangerous; “démarche,” an official message to a foreign government, often a protest or warning.

Diplomatic drama
But the drama in the cables often comes from diplomats’ narratives of meetings with foreign figures, games of diplomatic poker in which each side is sizing up the other and neither is showing all its cards.

Among the most fascinating examples recount American officials’ meetings in September 2009 and February 2010 with Ahmed Wali Karzai, the half brother of the Afghan president and a power broker in the Taliban’s home turf of Kandahar.

They describe Mr. Karzai, “dressed in a crisp white shalwar kameez,” the traditional dress of loose tunic and trousers, appearing “nervous, though eager to express his views on the international presence in Kandahar,” and trying to win over the Americans with nostalgic tales about his years running a Chicago restaurant near Wrigley Field.

But in midnarrative there is a stark alert for anyone reading the cable in Washington: “Note: While we must deal with AWK as the head of the Provincial Council, he is widely understood to be corrupt and a narcotics trafficker.” (Mr. Karzai has repeatedly denied such charges.) And the cables note statements by Mr. Karzai that the Americans, informed by a steady flow of eavesdropping and agents’ reports, believe to be false.

A cable written after the February meeting coolly took note of the deceit on both sides.

Mr. Karzai “demonstrated that he will dissemble when it suits his needs,” the cable said. “He appears not to understand the level of our knowledge of his activities. We will need to monitor his activity closely, and deliver a recurring, transparent message to him” about the limits of American tolerance.

Not all business
Even in places far from war zones and international crises, where the stakes for the United States are not as high, curious diplomats can turn out to be accomplished reporters, sending vivid dispatches to deepen the government’s understanding of exotic places.

In a 2006 account, a wide-eyed American diplomat describes the lavish wedding of a well-connected couple in Dagestan, in Russia’s Caucasus, where one guest is the strongman who runs the war-ravaged Russian republic of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov.

The diplomat tells of drunken guests throwing $100 bills at child dancers, and nighttime water-scooter jaunts on the Caspian Sea.

“The dancers probably picked upwards of USD 5000 off the cobblestones,” the diplomat wrote. The host later tells him that Ramzan Kadyrov “had brought the happy couple ‘a five-kilo lump of gold’ as his wedding present.”

“After the dancing and a quick tour of the premises, Ramzan and his army drove off back to Chechnya,” the diplomat reported to Washington. “We asked why Ramzan did not spend the night in Makhachkala, and were told, ‘Ramzan never spends the night anywhere.’ ”

Scott Shane reported from Washington, and Andrew W. Lehren from New York. Reporting was contributed by Jo Becker, C. J. Chivers and James Glanz from New York; Eric Lichtblau, Michael R. Gordon, David E. Sanger, Charlie Savage, Eric Schmitt and Ginger Thompson from Washington; and Jane Perlez from Islamabad, Pakistan.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Boxes&BooksBoxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672
    Iran 'must be stopped': Arab leaders pushed U.S. to attack, WikiLeaks disclosures show


    Reporting from Beirut —
    Leaders of the oil-rich Arabian Peninsula monarchies repeatedly have beseeched the United States to attack Iran and take out its nuclear facilities, according to a series of classified diplomatic cables released to news organizations by the website Wikileaks.

    King Abdallah of Saudi Arabia and King Hamad bin Isa al Khalifa of Bahrain, which hosts the U.S. Fifth Fleet, were among the Arab leaders lobbying the U.S. for an attack on Iran. One Saudi official reminded Americans that the king had repeatedly asked them to "cut off the head of the snake" before it was too late.

    "That program must be stopped," one Nov. 4, 2009, cable quotes Khalifa as telling Gen. David H. Petraeus, then head of U.S. Central Command. "The danger of letting it go is greater than the danger of stopping it."

    In a May 2005 meeting, Abu Dhabi crown prince Mohamed bin Zayed, deputy supreme commander of the United Arab Emirates armed forces, urged a U.S. general to use "ground forces" against Iran even though, another cable notes, the federation did not abide by U.S. requests to interdict suspicious shipments transiting from its shores to Iran. A February 2010 document attributes Bin Zayed's "near-obsessive" arms buildup to his fears about Iran.

    "I believe this guy is going to take us to war," Mohamed bin Zayed told a U.S. delegation in April 2006 of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "It's a matter of time. Personally, I cannot risk it with a guy like Ahmadinejad. He is young and aggressive."

    In December 2009, the crown prince told a U.S. official: "We know your priority is Al Qaeda, but don't forget Iran. Al Qaeda is not going to get a nuclear bomb."

    The trove of cables contained few startling revelations about Iran. But they show how frightened the Arab world is of Iran's rising regional ambitions and nuclear program and how much Iran has become the center of atttention in capitals around the world. At a June 2009 meeting with U.S. lawmakers, Israeli defense Secretary Ehud Barak argued that attacking Iran any later than late 2010 "would result in unacceptable collateral damage."

    During an April 2008 visit to Saudi Arabia, Petraeus and former U.S. envoy to Baghdad Ryan Crocker got an earful from officials and the king about the need to confront Iran about its nuclear program and its ambitions in Iraq. And during an April 2009 meeting, Saudi Prince Turki al Kabeer warned American, Russian and Dutch diplomats that Riyadh could not stomach Iran's continued enrichment of uranium. "We are OK with nuclear electrical power and desalinization but not with enrichment," he was quoted as saying.

    Still, passages in several cables suggested splits within the Arab leadership over what to do with Iran. One Saudi diplomat urged Americans in 2008 to avoid war and launch talks with the Iranians. An Omani official urged Americans to take a more nuanced view of the Iranian issue and to question whether other Arab leaders' entreaties for war were based on logic or emotion.

    Several documents showed the extent to which the U.S. had been attempting to obtain detailed information on Iran's political scene and economy by interviewing sources at American diplomatic outposts in Dubai and Azerbaijan.

    The U.S., which has not had diplomatic relations with Iran for decades, relied on European allies with embassies in Tehran to gain understanding of the Islamic Republic. According to one cable, former British envoy Geoffrey Adams advised Americans to be "steady and firm, tough but not aggressive," in negotations between Iranian and American officials in late 2007 over the security situation in Iraq.

    "The current Iranian regime is effectively a fascist state, and the time has come to decide on next steps," French diplomat Jean-David Levitte advised U.S. officials in September 2009.

    The cables detail Iran's alleged breaches of law and protocol under Ahmadinejad and his hardline entourage. A source at the U.S. consulate in Dubai alleged that Iran used the Red Crescent society to funnel weapons and militants into Iraq and Lebanon.

    The documents also reveal U.S. frustration with some countries that refuse to break off ties with Iran. U.S. officials in December 2008 threatened Armenia with sanctions for allowing the transfer of arms to Iran, "which resulted in the death and injury of U.S. soldiers in Iraq." Another cable details unsuccessful U.S. diplomatic attempts to dissuade Turkey in November 2009 from attempting to resolve the standoff over Iran's nuclear program.

    Despite doubts that sanctions or war would curb Iran's nuclear program, one Turkish official noted with dismay in February to U.S. Ambassador James Jeffrey that everyone in the region, including Iran's ally Syria, was worried about Iran. "Alarm bells are ringing even in Damascus," Feridun Sinirlioglu, a Turkish diplomat, was quoted as saying.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 8707.story
  • Not good
  • Boxes&BooksBoxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672
    I just hope I don't wake up tomorrow to news reports stating that the US has just Blown the F' out of Iran!!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    i find this part interesting...

    "— Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government: When Afghanistan’s vice president visited the United Arab Emirates last year, local authorities working with the Drug Enforcement Administration discovered that he was carrying $52 million in cash. With wry understatement, a cable from the American Embassy in Kabul called the money “a significant amount” that the official, Ahmed Zia Massoud, “was ultimately allowed to keep without revealing the money’s origin or destination.” (Mr. Massoud denies taking any money out of Afghanistan.) "

    carrying $52 million in cash.
    no questions asked...no investigation done..

    the DEA shakes down people for having an ounce of pot or a few plants, but $52 million in cash is unworthy of serious attention..

    shocking...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    tonifig8 wrote:
    I just hope I don't wake up tomorrow to news reports stating that the US has just Blown the F' out of Iran!!


    me too! Millions of innocent people dying rules!
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    i find this part interesting...

    "— Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government: When Afghanistan’s vice president visited the United Arab Emirates last year, local authorities working with the Drug Enforcement Administration discovered that he was carrying $52 million in cash. With wry understatement, a cable from the American Embassy in Kabul called the money “a significant amount” that the official, Ahmed Zia Massoud, “was ultimately allowed to keep without revealing the money’s origin or destination.” (Mr. Massoud denies taking any money out of Afghanistan.) "

    carrying $52 million in cash.
    no questions asked...no investigation done..

    the DEA shakes down people for having an ounce of pot or a few plants, but $52 million in cash is unworthy of serious attention..

    shocking...

    I am surprised a little but not shocked....not sure I'm even surprised, these are thing's I have suspected and thought about and as far as the WMD Bush talked about may not have been there at the time but after reading all this I believe he had to know something was in progress to create these WMD, this article gives some light to what I have said in the past about we here on the train not really knowing what really goes on in the White House and other governments and dirty deals that spark conflicts and war
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    i find this part interesting...

    "— Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government: When Afghanistan’s vice president visited the United Arab Emirates last year, local authorities working with the Drug Enforcement Administration discovered that he was carrying $52 million in cash. With wry understatement, a cable from the American Embassy in Kabul called the money “a significant amount” that the official, Ahmed Zia Massoud, “was ultimately allowed to keep without revealing the money’s origin or destination.” (Mr. Massoud denies taking any money out of Afghanistan.) "

    carrying $52 million in cash.
    no questions asked...no investigation done..

    the DEA shakes down people for having an ounce of pot or a few plants, but $52 million in cash is unworthy of serious attention..

    shocking...
    Where is Mel Gibson when you need him...

    Sketchy badguy with stereotypical british accent meant to indicate non-americanness: "Diplomatic immunity..."

    Riggs: "...Has just been revoked."
  • I love it! Now the US government is calling wikileaks terrorist. Lol. So if I make a donation to wiki am I supporting terrorist?? Lmao.
    I'll be back
  • MK1980MK1980 Nottingham, UK Posts: 291
    Here's todays NY times article about Iran

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/middleeast/29iran.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2

    It's a bit more in-depth than the LA times article.
    How I choose to feel is how I am...I will not lose my faith, It's an inside job today.
    Manchester Aug 17th 2009
    Hyde Park June 25th 2010
    Manchester June 20th & 21st 2012
    Leeds July 14th 2014
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    this is bad.

    our government and diplomats look like a bunch of pricks with all of this insulting of other world leaders...

    hopefully the founder of wikileaks does not have some sort of "accident" or "heart attack" befall him....because you know that people are going to want and possibly seek revenge..
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • this is bad.

    our government and diplomats look like a bunch of pricks with all of this insulting of other world leaders...

    hopefully the founder of wikileaks does not have some sort of "accident" or "heart attack" befall him....because you know that people are going to want and possibly seek revenge..


    Are you saying that you don't want to know the truth about what goes on behind our backs? I'm 95% sure the US has a secrect hit on this guy.
    I'll be back
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    no i want to know the truth. hence my screen name...

    i am pretty sure that there is a hit on him by someone, either my government or another one...the CIA has offed people for much much less....IMO the only reason this guy is alive right now is because he keeps releasing things and staying in the news cycle. i believe that the rape allegations in sweden (or switzerland ( i can't remember which one) is an effort to silence him and keep him alive. i have a bad feeling that something bad will happen to him..like once he is out of the news cycle for a few months he might fall ill from a mysterious illness or something. i wish i had a brighter outlook on things, but if history is any indicator, i have a good idea of how our governments operate...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    no i want to know the truth. hence my screen name...

    i am pretty sure that there is a hit on him by someone, either my government or another one...the CIA has offed people for much much less....IMO the only reason this guy is alive right now is because he keeps releasing things and staying in the news cycle. i believe that the rape allegations in sweden (or switzerland ( i can't remember which one) is an effort to silence him and keep him alive. i have a bad feeling that something bad will happen to him..like once he is out of the news cycle for a few months he might fall ill from a mysterious illness or something. i wish i had a brighter outlook on things, but if history is any indicator, i have a good idea of how our governments operate...

    before the governments wackes him they will discredit him first and show the world that he fabricated all this
    to gain some kind of noterity....then he'll die in a accident of some kind.
    didn't the JFK assassination teach us anything.LOL!!

    Godfather.
  • no i want to know the truth. hence my screen name...

    i am pretty sure that there is a hit on him by someone, either my government or another one...the CIA has offed people for much much less....IMO the only reason this guy is alive right now is because he keeps releasing things and staying in the news cycle. i believe that the rape allegations in sweden (or switzerland ( i can't remember which one) is an effort to silence him and keep him alive. i have a bad feeling that something bad will happen to him..like once he is out of the news cycle for a few months he might fall ill from a mysterious illness or something. i wish i had a brighter outlook on things, but if history is any indicator, i have a good idea of how our governments operate...

    I bet it's hard for him to sleep at night if he does sleep at all. Watching behind him as he walks. Moving from place to place. Scary life to live.
    I'll be back
  • Great! Let's find a way to make people terrorist.



    A top Republican congressman is calling on the State Department to designate WikiLeaks a "foreign terrorist organization," as he and several other lawmakers demand the Obama administration find a way to prosecute founder Julian Assange in the wake of the group's latest document dump. 

    WikiLeaks' weekend release of more than 250,000 classified State Department documents has outraged Washington officials. The spilling of secrets this time deals with a trove of candid diplomatic cables and other missives spanning everything from Pakistan to Iran to North Korea and could jeopardize the United States' sensitive foreign policy dealings. 

    Combined with the organization's prior mega-leaks of Iraq and Afghanistan war documents, the latest release is putting American lives in danger and breaking down the trust between the United States and its allies, lawmakers said. They urged the Obama administration to treat Assange and his operation severely. 

    Rep. Peter King, ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, urged Attorney General Eric Holder to prosecute Assange and urged Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to designate his group a foreign terrorist organization, in letters sent out over the weekend. 

    "This is extremely damaging to U.S. troops, U.S. interests and U.S. intelligence," King told MyFox New York on Monday. 

    He said that labeling the group a foreign terrorist organization would allow the United States to seize its assets and stop other entities from cooperating with it. 

    "They are engaged in terrorist activity. What they're doing is clearly aiding and abetting terrorist groups," King said. "Either we're serious about this or we're not." 

    Though Army Pfc. Bradley Manning is already being held in connection with a prior leak, King urged Holder in a letter Sunday to prosecute Assange under the Espionage Act. 

    Holder said Monday that the Justice Department is conducting an "active, ongoing, criminal investigation" into the situation. He condemned the leak and said it put national security at risk. 

    "To the extent that we can find anybody who was involved in the breaking of American law and who has put at risk the assets and the people that I have described they will be held responsible, they will be held accountable," Holder said. 

    Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle joined the call for tough legal action to be taken, though it's unclear whether the United States could win the cooperation of foreign governments to pull that off. 

    Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, called the release "an attack on the national security of the United States." In a written statement released Monday, he said those behind the leak will have "blood on their hands" and recommended legal action. 

    "I also urge the Obama administration -- both on its own and in cooperation with other responsible governments around the world -- to use all legal means necessary to shut down WikiLeaks before it can do more damage by releasing additional cables," he said. 

    Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., speaking on "Fox News Sunday," urged the administration to go after the leakers "with the force of law." 

    "If you can prosecute them, let's try," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said. 

    The State Department document leak has triggered an administration review of how classified documents are kept and accessed. The leaked information did not so much drop any single bombshell as it did lay out in agonizing detail the behind-the-scenes discussions and observations beneath U.S. foreign policy. The documents showed U.S. allies speaking bluntly about the threat posed by Iran's nuclear program as well as some trash talk about German Chancellor Angela Merkel.



    Per Joe Lieberman " blood on their hands". Don't feed us that bullshit Joe. God only knows how much blood is on obama, bush, Clinton, bush hands.
    I'll be back
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    these recent document releases proves one thing to me...

    the pen, the keyboard, the scanner, and the server all appear to be mightier than the sword...or in our case guns, planes, bombs, money, bribes, or sanctions...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Great! Let's find a way to make people terrorist.



    A top Republican congressman is calling on the State Department to designate WikiLeaks a "foreign terrorist organization," as he and several other lawmakers demand the Obama administration find a way to prosecute founder Julian Assange in the wake of the group's latest document dump. 

    WikiLeaks' weekend release of more than 250,000 classified State Department documents has outraged Washington officials. The spilling of secrets this time deals with a trove of candid diplomatic cables and other missives spanning everything from Pakistan to Iran to North Korea and could jeopardize the United States' sensitive foreign policy dealings. 

    Combined with the organization's prior mega-leaks of Iraq and Afghanistan war documents, the latest release is putting American lives in danger and breaking down the trust between the United States and its allies, lawmakers said. They urged the Obama administration to treat Assange and his operation severely. 

    Rep. Peter King, ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, urged Attorney General Eric Holder to prosecute Assange and urged Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to designate his group a foreign terrorist organization, in letters sent out over the weekend. 

    "This is extremely damaging to U.S. troops, U.S. interests and U.S. intelligence," King told MyFox New York on Monday. 

    He said that labeling the group a foreign terrorist organization would allow the United States to seize its assets and stop other entities from cooperating with it. 

    "They are engaged in terrorist activity. What they're doing is clearly aiding and abetting terrorist groups," King said. "Either we're serious about this or we're not." 

    Though Army Pfc. Bradley Manning is already being held in connection with a prior leak, King urged Holder in a letter Sunday to prosecute Assange under the Espionage Act. 

    Holder said Monday that the Justice Department is conducting an "active, ongoing, criminal investigation" into the situation. He condemned the leak and said it put national security at risk. 

    "To the extent that we can find anybody who was involved in the breaking of American law and who has put at risk the assets and the people that I have described they will be held responsible, they will be held accountable," Holder said. 

    Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle joined the call for tough legal action to be taken, though it's unclear whether the United States could win the cooperation of foreign governments to pull that off. 

    Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, called the release "an attack on the national security of the United States." In a written statement released Monday, he said those behind the leak will have "blood on their hands" and recommended legal action. 

    "I also urge the Obama administration -- both on its own and in cooperation with other responsible governments around the world -- to use all legal means necessary to shut down WikiLeaks before it can do more damage by releasing additional cables," he said. 

    Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., speaking on "Fox News Sunday," urged the administration to go after the leakers "with the force of law." 

    "If you can prosecute them, let's try," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said. 

    The State Department document leak has triggered an administration review of how classified documents are kept and accessed. The leaked information did not so much drop any single bombshell as it did lay out in agonizing detail the behind-the-scenes discussions and observations beneath U.S. foreign policy. The documents showed U.S. allies speaking bluntly about the threat posed by Iran's nuclear program as well as some trash talk about German Chancellor Angela Merkel.



    Per Joe Lieberman " blood on their hands". Don't feed us that bullshit Joe. God only knows how much blood is on obama, bush, Clinton, bush hands.


    If he's suspected of terrorism, he still might get off scott free... since the leaks also showed that US forces kidnapped a German citizen they suspected of being a terrorist and kept him in a secret prison for an extended period of time before dumping him in a different location, and when the German government came after the US for it they were told to back off if they valued their relationship with the US.
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    no i want to know the truth. hence my screen name...

    i am pretty sure that there is a hit on him by someone, either my government or another one...the CIA has offed people for much much less....IMO the only reason this guy is alive right now is because he keeps releasing things and staying in the news cycle. i believe that the rape allegations in sweden (or switzerland ( i can't remember which one) is an effort to silence him and keep him alive. i have a bad feeling that something bad will happen to him..like once he is out of the news cycle for a few months he might fall ill from a mysterious illness or something. i wish i had a brighter outlook on things, but if history is any indicator, i have a good idea of how our governments operate...
    He must know the personal risk he is taking by releasing this information. I don't think a "hit" we be placed, but I imagine the hammer is going to come down very hard on him. Obama and Clinton used language today that indicated he will soon be known as an enemy to the state.

    From my viewpoint, the bummer about this latest release is that it has less to do with uncovering human rights abuse and more to do with upsetting diplomatic relations and creating more tension in the mid-east (at least from what is being presented by the media).
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • It's amazing how upset those in government are over this. When it is their information that is obtained and revealed it is associated with being criminal, terroristic even. Yet when it is the citizens' information being requested by these very people, they are more than ready to feel they are entitled to it.
  • It's amazing how upset those in government are over this. When it is their information that is obtained and revealed it is associated with being criminal, terroristic even. Yet when it is the citizens' information being requested by these very people, they are more than ready to feel they are entitled to it.

    Agree. This guy is a threat to national security because he exposed the fact that the government is trying to get hold of the UN Sec Gen's credit card numbers and frequent flier mile status. Yet Bush implemented the PATRIOT Act which makes it legal for government agencies to wiretap citizens without obtaining permits... an act that was such a disgrace that Obama... continued it.
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    i love how this has opened up a serious dialogue, not only on the train, but in the country and the world at large, about the power of government, the cia, how we manipulate information secret or otherwise, and how we manipulate foreign leaders. i think people might finally be waking up to the fact that we might be the bullies or even the terrorists and not the victims we claim to be.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    i love how this has opened up a serious dialogue, not only on the train, but in the country and the world at large, about the power of government, the cia, how we manipulate information secret or otherwise, and how we manipulate foreign leaders. i think people might finally be waking up to the fact that we might be the bullies or even the terrorists and not the victims we claim to be.

    I have to ask you (with no disrespect intended) if this bullie jacket you say we have is opened for the world to see what good will it do for us or anybody else involved ?
    I don't doubt that we are the biggest bullie on the block but do you think that's why we are not fighting wars on our land like other countries ?
    is it possible that American citizens have become complacent ? the fact that we don't have to deal with air attacks on or in our neighborhoods and cities,we all seem to have the "oh it wont happen her" attitude.
    I'm not saying that this is the case but just asking your thought on it.

    "is safty one of the rewards of being the biggest bullie on the block?"


    Godfather.
  • i love how this has opened up a serious dialogue, not only on the train, but in the country and the world at large, about the power of government, the cia, how we manipulate information secret or otherwise, and how we manipulate foreign leaders. i think people might finally be waking up to the fact that we might be the bullies or even the terrorists and not the victims we claim to be.

    Agreed. I love to see the govenerment frantic over this.
    I'll be back
  • China ready to abandon North Korea

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/no ... fied-korea

    Very interesting...
  • Godfather. wrote:
    i love how this has opened up a serious dialogue, not only on the train, but in the country and the world at large, about the power of government, the cia, how we manipulate information secret or otherwise, and how we manipulate foreign leaders. i think people might finally be waking up to the fact that we might be the bullies or even the terrorists and not the victims we claim to be.

    I have to ask you (with no disrespect intended) if this bullie jacket you say we have is opened for the world to see what good will it do for us or anybody else involved ?
    I don't doubt that we are the biggest bullie on the block but do you think that's why we are not fighting wars on our land like other countries ?
    is it possible that American citizens have become complacent ? the fact that we don't have to deal with air attacks on or in our neighborhoods and cities,we all seem to have the "oh it wont happen her" attitude.
    I'm not saying that this is the case but just asking your thought on it.

    "is safty one of the rewards of being the biggest bullie on the block?"


    Godfather.

    While your question wasn't directed towards me, I feel compelled to say something. There might be an aspect of safety that we realize by being the biggest bully in that no country is overtly going to start something with us, but what isn't taken into account is what the CIA terms "blowback". We have already experienced this when some terrorists flew a couple airplanes into the twin towers on account of our big bully status. So, in my opinion, safety isn't necessarily a reward. When you are a bully, eventually enough people who have been bullied by you will gather to usurp you, be it physically or through other means.
  • Was it an American who has been leaking the information? If it is I don't think they will have to put out a hit. Can't they just hang him for treason? I'm gonna be super paranoid and say that it was the government that leaks the info to take everyone's mind off other things....Really though, does the average american really care about any of this or is it just another story. Other countries...they already know it. No big eye opener here. ;)
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    MotoDC wrote:
    i find this part interesting...

    "— Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government: When Afghanistan’s vice president visited the United Arab Emirates last year, local authorities working with the Drug Enforcement Administration discovered that he was carrying $52 million in cash. With wry understatement, a cable from the American Embassy in Kabul called the money “a significant amount” that the official, Ahmed Zia Massoud, “was ultimately allowed to keep without revealing the money’s origin or destination.” (Mr. Massoud denies taking any money out of Afghanistan.) "

    carrying $52 million in cash.
    no questions asked...no investigation done..

    the DEA shakes down people for having an ounce of pot or a few plants, but $52 million in cash is unworthy of serious attention..

    shocking...
    Where is Mel Gibson when you need him...

    Sketchy badguy with stereotypical british accent meant to indicate non-americanness: "Diplomatic immunity..."

    Riggs: "...Has just been revoked."


    ok first off... that sketchy bad guy with stereotypical british accent was in fact south african not british. and secondly it was murtaugh not riggs. so youll be wanting danny glover not mad mel. 8-)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jason P wrote:
    no i want to know the truth. hence my screen name...

    i am pretty sure that there is a hit on him by someone, either my government or another one...the CIA has offed people for much much less....IMO the only reason this guy is alive right now is because he keeps releasing things and staying in the news cycle. i believe that the rape allegations in sweden (or switzerland ( i can't remember which one) is an effort to silence him and keep him alive. i have a bad feeling that something bad will happen to him..like once he is out of the news cycle for a few months he might fall ill from a mysterious illness or something. i wish i had a brighter outlook on things, but if history is any indicator, i have a good idea of how our governments operate...
    He must know the personal risk he is taking by releasing this information. I don't think a "hit" we be placed, but I imagine the hammer is going to come down very hard on him. Obama and Clinton used language today that indicated he will soon be known as an enemy to the state.

    From my viewpoint, the bummer about this latest release is that it has less to do with uncovering human rights abuse and more to do with upsetting diplomatic relations and creating more tension in the mid-east (at least from what is being presented by the media).

    of course hes aware of the danger hes put himself in. but i guess he feels that this is stuff the world needs to know about. that when the US runs around waving the democracy flag the bullshit level rises ever higher. and that theres a higher cost than we have ever been allowed to be aware of. and im in assanges corner with this. i want to know whats being done in my name so i can disown the actions of my government. democracy isnt what the US and friends espouse by their actions. democracy is people rule. how many of us feel as if were in charge of our democratic styled countries? and if you dont, why dont you? do you feel as if your govt doesnt care what your opinion is? does your country feel that simply cause you have the right to vote that thats what its all about? that we should be grateful cause theres some countries where the people dont even get to vote? well thats just bullshit. dont try and tell me that cause i vote i live in a democracy. its disrespectful and treats the populace as if theyre stupid.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    I have cables on all of you!
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I have cables on all of you!


    not me babe.. not me. ;)8-)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
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