Are the people who wave the Confederate Battle Flag... the Stars and Bars... Proud to be Americans? If so, then why all the fuss about the flag that sought to divide the Union?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I must say dont feel too comfortable around people that are "proud to be whatever nationality". To use such phrases indicates a certain mindset in many cases that i dont particularly like.
America is a sepcial case cause "proud american" would to me have to mean "proud european" in some way. I am european of course, and several of the tags associated with it is to my liking. But proud?
Being a bit patriotic about your home town and region is something else entirely. I am European, then Norwegian, then a "Westerner", then more specifically a "Southwesterner, and then a "Haugalending" (region), and then a resident of the island I come from whcih is it's own municipality. I am slightly patriotic about being a Norwegian, but I dont think it's anything to beat my chest about. I am a bit more dedicated as a "Westerner" as it has associations to the nature here, a bit more rugged way of life and very independent minded people. (could also be that since I have moved to the big city of the west and have a girlfriend from yet another part of the "West, I am compromising a bit subconsciously) Less patriotic about my specific hometown, cause I'm not really that fond of it, apart from having my childhood memories tied to it and family living there. A bit more about the region "Haugalandet" in general, in that the people are very thrifty and practically minded. Also supporting the football team from the nearest city of course.
Point is, patriotism is complicated stuff. It can be a rough cover for "tribal my people's dicks are bigger than yours's" bigotism, or it can be about a genuine care for a specific place and the people in it. This rough draft of my loyalties should illustrate that. The "Proud american" seems to me to be mostly "we are the greatest" trash talk, cause it encompasses far too many people and places to have any real meaning for people. As I outlined, my patriotism runs a lot more local than that, and it's that kind of patriotism I think can be a good thing. (at least less bad)
Anywho.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
A little story that's semi-related . . . I bought a flag this weekend for the house (unrelated to this thread) and it added a nice visual touch to my place. Unfortunately, the cheap mount had some tiny screws that didn't look like they could provide the adequate support. I was skeptical but figured they had engineered this to at least withstand 30 mph wind. Sure enough, three days later I find the flag in my flower garden with some minor damage to my siding.
Time to use some american ingenuity and fix this sucker myself. By the time I get done, this thing will survive hurricane force winds. In the meantime, I need to figure out where this flag was manufactured . . .
Are the people who wave the Confederate Battle Flag... the Stars and Bars... Proud to be Americans? If so, then why all the fuss about the flag that sought to divide the Union?
The Duke brothers get an obvious pass . . . everyone else needs to pull their heads out of their butts.
In the meantime, I need to figure out where this flag was manufactured . . .
Probably China.
Byrnzie, I have an unrelated question for you. I was at my old man's place last night and he had Glen Beck on in the background and Beck was trying to argue that China wasn't communist, but instead a socialist society. I would argue that China is a capitalistic country, only run by mafia-type government and businesses. What are your thoughts?
In the meantime, I need to figure out where this flag was manufactured . . .
Probably China.
Byrnzie, I have an unrelated question for you. I was at my old man's place last night and he had Glen Beck on in the background and Beck was trying to argue that China wasn't communist, but instead a socialist society. I would argue that China is a capitalistic country, only run by mafia-type government and businesses. What are your thoughts?
I'm with you on this one. It's a capitalist country run by a bunch of gangsters who use a totalitarian system to protect themselves. I've not seen anything communist about it in the three years I've been here. It's every man for himself. There's not even any national welfare or national health system here.
Are the people who wave the Confederate Battle Flag... the Stars and Bars... Proud to be Americans? If so, then why all the fuss about the flag that sought to divide the Union?
Funny you should mention that... there seem to be a lot of people down here who think the Civil War isn't over, it's just taking a break. They're not retreating, they're reloading. It isn't that unusual to see trucks with "The South Will Rise Again" bumper stickers, and when Ole Miss shortened a certain song at football games to avoid playing the line "The South Will Rise Again," it ticked off a few people.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
i live in sydney. i just dont see any of what you mentioned as being disrespectful. but then again i find it very difficult to be respectful of my nations flag when it has the flag of another country so prominent within it.
How's the discussion about becoming a republic going on your side of the ditch? Most of the under-50 crowd in NZ are very much in favour of it, but at the end of the day we'll probably end up waiting until you guys do it and then follow suit. The New Zealand Herald ran a competition earlier this year to come up with a new flag, and some of the suggestions were pretty cool - not a single Union Jack in sight.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
I must say dont feel too comfortable around people that are "proud to be whatever nationality". To use such phrases indicates a certain mindset in many cases that i dont particularly like.
America is a sepcial case cause "proud american" would to me have to mean "proud european" in some way. I am european of course, and several of the tags associated with it is to my liking. But proud?
Being a bit patriotic about your home town and region is something else entirely. I am European, then Norwegian, then a "Westerner", then more specifically a "Southwesterner, and then a "Haugalending" (region), and then a resident of the island I come from whcih is it's own municipality. I am slightly patriotic about being a Norwegian, but I dont think it's anything to beat my chest about. I am a bit more dedicated as a "Westerner" as it has associations to the nature here, a bit more rugged way of life and very independent minded people. (could also be that since I have moved to the big city of the west and have a girlfriend from yet another part of the "West, I am compromising a bit subconsciously) Less patriotic about my specific hometown, cause I'm not really that fond of it, apart from having my childhood memories tied to it and family living there. A bit more about the region "Haugalandet" in general, in that the people are very thrifty and practically minded. Also supporting the football team from the nearest city of course.
Point is, patriotism is complicated stuff. It can be a rough cover for "tribal my people's dicks are bigger than yours's" bigotism, or it can be about a genuine care for a specific place and the people in it. This rough draft of my loyalties should illustrate that. The "Proud american" seems to me to be mostly "we are the greatest" trash talk, cause it encompasses far too many people and places to have any real meaning for people. As I outlined, my patriotism runs a lot more local than that, and it's that kind of patriotism I think can be a good thing. (at least less bad)
Anywho.
Peace
Dan
On the subject of patriotism and European sport, what do you think is behind football hooliganism? Isn't that patriotism just taken to a violent extreme?
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
That's not what it says on the front of the Backspacer cd.
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) & people I knew die at the WTC. At least we hear less about their views at the shows now :roll: .
Post edited by cfbd68 on
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder, to find an approach and a way to live
Constant Recoil..Sometimes life, Don't leave you alone
When the anxious is the present, unwrap your gifts, take your time
i live in sydney. i just dont see any of what you mentioned as being disrespectful. but then again i find it very difficult to be respectful of my nations flag when it has the flag of another country so prominent within it.
How's the discussion about becoming a republic going on your side of the ditch? Most of the under-50 crowd in NZ are very much in favour of it, but at the end of the day we'll probably end up waiting until you guys do it and then follow suit. The New Zealand Herald ran a competition earlier this year to come up with a new flag, and some of the suggestions were pretty cool - not a single Union Jack in sight.
what discussion? everytime its brought up the old people freak out.. so were waiting for them to all die.. shouldnt be too long now.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's not what it says on the front of the Backspacer cd.
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) die at the WTC. At least we hear less about this shit at the shows now :roll: .
What does it say on the front of the Backspacer CD?
That's not what it says on the front of the Backspacer cd.
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) die at the WTC. At least we hear less about this shit at the shows now :roll: .
What does it say on the front of the Backspacer CD?
And what 'shit' are you referring to?
actually it is the small print on the back of the cd.....at the bottom.
confuses me......why would pj "exclude The United States of America"
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
That's not what it says on the front of the Backspacer cd.
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) die at the WTC. At least we hear less about this shit at the shows now :roll: .
What does it say on the front of the Backspacer CD?
And what 'shit' are you referring to?
actually it is the small print on the back of the cd.....at the bottom.
confuses me......why would pj "exclude The United States of America"
its not on my copy.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's not what it says on the front of the Backspacer cd.
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) die at the WTC. At least we hear less about this shit at the shows now :roll: .
What does it say on the front of the Backspacer CD?
And what 'shit' are you referring to?
actually it is the small print on the back of the cd.....at the bottom.
confuses me......why would pj "exclude The United States of America"
Holy crap! It is a legal disclaimer saying certain rights apply internationally. It is not a political statement. :roll:
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Byrnzie, edited my original post, don't mean to offend but I do find this statement a bit disrepectful :oops:
Had to double check the Backspacer cd which was purchased at Target in Florida( may make a difference). It's on the print side of my Backspacer cd on the 3rd ring in very small print. You may need to angle a light to actually see it (no kidding). Starting from the widest ring, 1st silver, 2nd black, 3rd beige & tan combo which reads
2009 Monkeywrench, Inc/ With respect to the World except the United States of America, distributed by Universal Music Group under license from Monkeywrench UK ltd./ WARNING ect......
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder, to find an approach and a way to live
Constant Recoil..Sometimes life, Don't leave you alone
When the anxious is the present, unwrap your gifts, take your time
Byrnzie, edited my original post, don't mean to offend but I do find this statement a bit disrepectful :oops:
Had to double check the Backspacer cd which was purchased at Target in Florida( may make a difference). It's on the print side of my Backspacer cd on the 3rd ring in very small print. You may need to angle a light to actually see it (no kidding). Starting from the widest ring, 1st silver, 2nd black, 3rd beige & tan combo which reads
2009 Monkeywrench, Inc/ With respect to the World except the United States of America, distributed by Universal Music Group under license from Monkeywrench UK ltd./ WARNING ect......
I know it's already been said, but you now know it is a legal disclaimer right?
Byrnzie, edited my original post, don't mean to offend but I do find this statement a bit disrepectful :oops:
Had to double check the Backspacer cd which was purchased at Target in Florida( may make a difference). It's on the print side of my Backspacer cd on the 3rd ring in very small print. You may need to angle a light to actually see it (no kidding). Starting from the widest ring, 1st silver, 2nd black, 3rd beige & tan combo which reads
2009 Monkeywrench, Inc/ With respect to the World except the United States of America, distributed by Universal Music Group under license from Monkeywrench UK ltd./ WARNING ect......
Check Smellyman's post. It refers to subsidiary distributors of the album within the U.S.
On the subject of patriotism and European sport, what do you think is behind football hooliganism? Isn't that patriotism just taken to a violent extreme?
When it comes to hooliganism UK/Italy style, I think frankly football is just a convenient cover for people spoiling for a fight. The disaffected crowd, basically, that use it as an outlet. Which I suppose can be likened to the bad kind of patriotism I mentioned earlier.
But when it comes to disaffected, antsy people that dont have much, history do show that if there aren't a difference we can attach to to define the us and them for a fight for food resources etc (religion is always a favorite line to use, and the last century ethnicity), then we make that line somehow. If there are no external enemies, some might jump at the chance of dividing into City/United gangs or whatever.
That would be bad patriotism. For football, good patriotism is supporting your team, and then gloat a bit to the supporters of teams you beat and take a gloat in return vice versa. To attack people for wearing the wrong color shirt seems just stupid to me.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That's not what it says on the front of the Backspacer cd.
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) die at the WTC. At least we hear less about this shit at the shows now :roll: .
What does it say on the front of the Backspacer CD?
And what 'shit' are you referring to?
mine says peal jam. and backspacer. with some pictures.
Byrnzie, edited my original post, don't mean to offend but I do find this statement a bit disrepectful :oops:
Had to double check the Backspacer cd which was purchased at Target in Florida( may make a difference). It's on the print side of my Backspacer cd on the 3rd ring in very small print. You may need to angle a light to actually see it (no kidding). Starting from the widest ring, 1st silver, 2nd black, 3rd beige & tan combo which reads
2009 Monkeywrench, Inc/ With respect to the World except the United States of America, distributed by Universal Music Group under license from Monkeywrench UK ltd./ WARNING ect......
I know it's already been said, but you now know it is a legal disclaimer right?
I'll have to check this out, but how would this qualify as a legal disclaimer? Are there any other examples where products have been sold with this exact language as the purpose of a legal disclaimer?
I googled the phrase and tried to mix it with a variety of key words to see if anything came up. The only thing I got back was links to this thread and some facebook post from a year ago that claimed the phrase was a protest of Gitmo.
oh yeah...........hide behind the old "legal disclaimer" fascade.
i do not think so.......simply stated, it is a political statement. you can roll your eyes, but it will not change the fact.
And if it is a political statement, why not clarify it with, "With respect to the world, except those agents and politicians that keep Gitmo open" instead of an open-ended statement that will be interpreted negatively by the core group that buys their product ... you know, the Americans?
Who know if the members of PJ even know this wording exists, but to those in charge of packaging I would ask to use better reasoning in the future.
"2009 Monkeywrench, Inc/ With respect to the World except the United States of America, distributed by Universal Music Group under license from Monkeywrench UK ltd."
Surely it just means in the US it is distributed by Monkeywrench Inc (ie Pearl Jam themselves) ... but in the rest of the world (except the USA) it is being distributed by Universal under licence from PJ ... as the whole world distribution was too much for PJ to take on themselves :?
I just read it as a statement of fact about the distribution.
Post edited by chime on
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
Comments
Hail, Hail!!!
America is a sepcial case cause "proud american" would to me have to mean "proud european" in some way. I am european of course, and several of the tags associated with it is to my liking. But proud?
Being a bit patriotic about your home town and region is something else entirely. I am European, then Norwegian, then a "Westerner", then more specifically a "Southwesterner, and then a "Haugalending" (region), and then a resident of the island I come from whcih is it's own municipality. I am slightly patriotic about being a Norwegian, but I dont think it's anything to beat my chest about. I am a bit more dedicated as a "Westerner" as it has associations to the nature here, a bit more rugged way of life and very independent minded people. (could also be that since I have moved to the big city of the west and have a girlfriend from yet another part of the "West, I am compromising a bit subconsciously) Less patriotic about my specific hometown, cause I'm not really that fond of it, apart from having my childhood memories tied to it and family living there. A bit more about the region "Haugalandet" in general, in that the people are very thrifty and practically minded. Also supporting the football team from the nearest city of course.
Point is, patriotism is complicated stuff. It can be a rough cover for "tribal my people's dicks are bigger than yours's" bigotism, or it can be about a genuine care for a specific place and the people in it. This rough draft of my loyalties should illustrate that. The "Proud american" seems to me to be mostly "we are the greatest" trash talk, cause it encompasses far too many people and places to have any real meaning for people. As I outlined, my patriotism runs a lot more local than that, and it's that kind of patriotism I think can be a good thing. (at least less bad)
Anywho.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Time to use some american ingenuity and fix this sucker myself. By the time I get done, this thing will survive hurricane force winds. In the meantime, I need to figure out where this flag was manufactured . . .
Probably China.
I'm with you on this one. It's a capitalist country run by a bunch of gangsters who use a totalitarian system to protect themselves. I've not seen anything communist about it in the three years I've been here. It's every man for himself. There's not even any national welfare or national health system here.
it is interesting to see where crosses are manufactured.......from what i have seen, it is usually china.
cha ching....china.
Funny you should mention that... there seem to be a lot of people down here who think the Civil War isn't over, it's just taking a break. They're not retreating, they're reloading. It isn't that unusual to see trucks with "The South Will Rise Again" bumper stickers, and when Ole Miss shortened a certain song at football games to avoid playing the line "The South Will Rise Again," it ticked off a few people.
How's the discussion about becoming a republic going on your side of the ditch? Most of the under-50 crowd in NZ are very much in favour of it, but at the end of the day we'll probably end up waiting until you guys do it and then follow suit. The New Zealand Herald ran a competition earlier this year to come up with a new flag, and some of the suggestions were pretty cool - not a single Union Jack in sight.
On the subject of patriotism and European sport, what do you think is behind football hooliganism? Isn't that patriotism just taken to a violent extreme?
:? With respect to the World "excluding" the United States of America. :evil: WTF?
I'm a NY fireman & had 343 brothers (co-workers) & people I knew die at the WTC. At least we hear less about their views at the shows now :roll: .
Constant Recoil..Sometimes life, Don't leave you alone
When the anxious is the present, unwrap your gifts, take your time
what discussion? everytime its brought up the old people freak out.. so were waiting for them to all die.. shouldnt be too long now.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
What does it say on the front of the Backspacer CD?
And what 'shit' are you referring to?
confuses me......why would pj "exclude The United States of America"
its not on my copy.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Holy crap! It is a legal disclaimer saying certain rights apply internationally. It is not a political statement. :roll:
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Had to double check the Backspacer cd which was purchased at Target in Florida( may make a difference). It's on the print side of my Backspacer cd on the 3rd ring in very small print. You may need to angle a light to actually see it (no kidding). Starting from the widest ring, 1st silver, 2nd black, 3rd beige & tan combo which reads
2009 Monkeywrench, Inc/ With respect to the World except the United States of America, distributed by Universal Music Group under license from Monkeywrench UK ltd./ WARNING ect......
Constant Recoil..Sometimes life, Don't leave you alone
When the anxious is the present, unwrap your gifts, take your time
I know it's already been said, but you now know it is a legal disclaimer right?
Check Smellyman's post. It refers to subsidiary distributors of the album within the U.S.
i embrace them too
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
When it comes to hooliganism UK/Italy style, I think frankly football is just a convenient cover for people spoiling for a fight. The disaffected crowd, basically, that use it as an outlet. Which I suppose can be likened to the bad kind of patriotism I mentioned earlier.
But when it comes to disaffected, antsy people that dont have much, history do show that if there aren't a difference we can attach to to define the us and them for a fight for food resources etc (religion is always a favorite line to use, and the last century ethnicity), then we make that line somehow. If there are no external enemies, some might jump at the chance of dividing into City/United gangs or whatever.
That would be bad patriotism. For football, good patriotism is supporting your team, and then gloat a bit to the supporters of teams you beat and take a gloat in return vice versa. To attack people for wearing the wrong color shirt seems just stupid to me.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
mine says peal jam. and backspacer. with some pictures.
I googled the phrase and tried to mix it with a variety of key words to see if anything came up. The only thing I got back was links to this thread and some facebook post from a year ago that claimed the phrase was a protest of Gitmo.
i do not think so.......simply stated, it is a political statement. you can roll your eyes, but it will not change the fact.
Who know if the members of PJ even know this wording exists, but to those in charge of packaging I would ask to use better reasoning in the future.
Surely it just means in the US it is distributed by Monkeywrench Inc (ie Pearl Jam themselves) ... but in the rest of the world (except the USA) it is being distributed by Universal under licence from PJ ... as the whole world distribution was too much for PJ to take on themselves :?
I just read it as a statement of fact about the distribution.
jeez, do we not have better things to be concerned with?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."