I don't think they have ever killed off a main character in the mid-season premiere. I thought the ep was different. In a good way. I paused it at 43 minutes in to get a drink, and I honestly thought I had watched 10 minutes. that tells me it was good.
sucks to see him gone, i enjoyed his character on the show.
I hated his character in the show. he was so weak he couldn't even kill walkers and just cuddled babies. he was lame, IMO. I kept waiting for the tyrese of the comics to come out. I don't read them, but a buddy tells me he just walks around hitting people in the head with his hammer, a total psycho. he apparently was a badass in the comics, and in the show he was a sensitive child.
I really don't understand the hate on this show. I mean, I get it with Lost. I watched Lost till the end, hating it/loving it from season 2's finale on, hoping hoping hoping for SOMETHING. But this show doesn't have a shitload of questions that go unanswered like polar bears in the tropics (except how they can travel 1000 miles on one tank of gas without any worries), it's just action and drama. I don't see the problem.
why was Tyrese so stupid? he saw the shadow and heard the growling, yet he just turned his back anyway. did he want to die? was that the whole point? he knew that Noah had twin brothers. Duh. that means TWO. one was eaten. so the other one was in the other room.
If you would have read my post you had quoted you would see I didn't watch it, I read a review on the episode.
Sorry, I'll be more careful in my wording from now on. I guess I don't see the point of hate watching shows - or hate reading reviews of them
For me I am keeping an eye on it hoping it turns around, but until ratings drop I don't see the show-runners changing anything, so I won't give them ratings in the meantime. If enough bored fans would stop hate watching and ratings dropped we might get a great show again...
If you would have read my post you had quoted you would see I didn't watch it, I read a review on the episode.
Sorry, I'll be more careful in my wording from now on. I guess I don't see the point of hate watching shows - or hate reading reviews of them
For me I am keeping an eye on it hoping it turns around, but until ratings drop I don't see the show-runners changing anything, so I won't give them ratings in the meantime. If enough bored fans would stop hate watching and ratings dropped we might get a great show again...
so what is wrong with the show currently in your eyes? I'm honestly curious.
why was Tyrese so stupid? he saw the shadow and heard the growling, yet he just turned his back anyway. did he want to die? was that the whole point? he knew that Noah had twin brothers. Duh. that means TWO. one was eaten. so the other one was in the other room.
from what i remember it was too late when he turned around the lil bastard had chomped down on him atm. will have to watch again though.
i looked at tyrese as being pretty badass. soft side but when he needed to kick ass a light went off.
Hamilton 9-13-05; Toronto 5-9-06, Toronto 8-21-09, Toronto 9-12-11, Hamilton 9-15-11....
I don't think they have ever killed off a main character in the mid-season premiere. I thought the ep was different. In a good way. I paused it at 43 minutes in to get a drink, and I honestly thought I had watched 10 minutes. that tells me it was good.
I liked the episode. I thought it was interesting to see the first person take on what a dying person may be seeing or going through just before death. I thought they did a good job with it--very eerie and chilling. And I liked how he fought against death for a bit--like the poem..."I will not go quiet into that good-night...I will not vanish without a fight...rage, rage against the dying of the light".
I don't have cable, so I bought WD season 5 through iTunes, so they have a short cast and crew thing also for download, and the actor who plays Tyrese seemed to hint that Tyrese had realized he had done all he could do, his time had come. I don't know if that was in reference to him no longer fighting to live after being bitten, or being careless before being bitten.
next week should be interesting.
why does everyone think that the show kills off people just for shock value? every show has a cliffhanger for their finales, so this show is no different. if they didn't have the mid-season break, they still would have killed Beth. they used to do that all the time.
I'd rather this show went 16 weeks straight instead of the big break. that's really my only complaint. well, that and not knowing where they keep filling up with gas and bullets. LOL
I don't have cable, so I bought WD season 5 through iTunes, so they have a short cast and crew thing also for download, and the actor who plays Tyrese seemed to hint that Tyrese had realized he had done all he could do, his time had come. I don't know if that was in reference to him no longer fighting to live after being bitten, or being careless before being bitten.
next week should be interesting.
why does everyone think that the show kills off people just for shock value? every show has a cliffhanger for their finales, so this show is no different. if they didn't have the mid-season break, they still would have killed Beth. they used to do that all the time.
I'd rather this show went 16 weeks straight instead of the big break. that's really my only complaint. well, that and not knowing where they keep filling up with gas and bullets. LOL
I think it's the mid-season break that leads to complaints about shock value as far as killing off characters. With the way they have it set up, there are 2 premiers and 2 finales for each season. Like you said, I wish they would just got 16 weeks straight so they didn't feel like they had to have something huge happen for every mid-season finale.
so what is wrong with the show currently in your eyes? I'm honestly curious.
I think the writing has become sloppy, in short. If you care for my long winded opinion...
They drag out the plot, whether they are short on ideas I don't know. Look at everything that happened in season one, six episodes. The first episodes of season 5 seemed to go back to a decent pace, but then fizzled. The show has it's moments still. You can create drama and suspense without pulling out every detail and have a moving story without making it feel frantic. Breaking Bad was fantastic at this, so much happened in one episode, yet it never felt rushed. Walking Dead had this once. Now they stretch out one plot element to 3-4 episodes.
Characters are another area. I complained about here before, about dragging out characters and after 2 seasons with a character the need for character development should be over, tell the story let the character live in the story but details shouldn't be force feed to the audience anymore. We know who these characters are, now tell the story.
The other part is characters acting out of character to force a plot point. Recently Beth going Rambo. Or the redemption of Merle just to kill him for the shock value, which they pretty much rehashed with the Governor. Rick being all about group decisions until he's not, but then when it is convenient for the story he is back for group support. I like Rick, mostly because Lincoln is such an awesome actor but Rick is all over the place, aside from his changing as a person, growth is good. One scene "we don't kill people" the next scene he just starts shooting people because "we can't trust anyone but us" then it is back to "let's see who they are." Rick is either Bi-Polar or poorly written.
One of the golden rules in fantasy is it doesn't have to hold true to our world but it must stay consistent in the one created. Walking Dead breaks this rule all the time and it is just sad. I think we are lead to assume other than zombies all other aspects of the world are equal to ours. So Daryl uses a crossbow to be quiet but drives around a motorcycle, a firetruck that doesn't run still has a hose with pressure, the van off the bridge, suddenly a swarm of zombies appear in the wide open and not one person in the group hears or sees this before hand, you get the idea. A few missteps ok, can't catch everything, but this many is again sloppy writing.
I think a lot of this comes down to how inconsistent the writing team is and no end goal insight. You have this many creative people on the same thing, they will all have different ideas on what the primary traits are for each character. What makes Michonne Michonne probably varies between every writer, it would be near impossible to have the character remain one. Imagine if Stephen King wrote Harry Potter, or Brad Meltzer. You'd get a very different story. Now imagine Rowling, King and Meltzer wrote different chapters for the same book... At least if they could sit down and say one day Rick will be a Congressmen when the US rebuilds, or Carl will start a new religion because of the never ending apocalypse. You'd have something, everything that character does would have to lead to that end point. I'd be willing to bet back in season 4 that didn't even know when Tyrese was going to die. They probably felt ok it his time for him to die when they started writing the current batch of episodes.
Obviously this show entertains a lot of people, so it is doing something very right for them, but to me it feels like a story blowing in the wind. Up until Walking Dead I didn't even watch TV shows, I felt they were a waste of time. Better stories could be found in books, but a friend convinced me to give Walking Dead a shot, and he was right...for a time.
so what is wrong with the show currently in your eyes? I'm honestly curious.
I think the writing has become sloppy, in short. If you care for my long winded opinion...
They drag out the plot, whether they are short on ideas I don't know. Look at everything that happened in season one, six episodes. The first episodes of season 5 seemed to go back to a decent pace, but then fizzled. The show has it's moments still. You can create drama and suspense without pulling out every detail and have a moving story without making it feel frantic. Breaking Bad was fantastic at this, so much happened in one episode, yet it never felt rushed. Walking Dead had this once. Now they stretch out one plot element to 3-4 episodes.
Characters are another area. I complained about here before, about dragging out characters and after 2 seasons with a character the need for character development should be over, tell the story let the character live in the story but details shouldn't be force feed to the audience anymore. We know who these characters are, now tell the story.
The other part is characters acting out of character to force a plot point. Recently Beth going Rambo. Or the redemption of Merle just to kill him for the shock value, which they pretty much rehashed with the Governor. Rick being all about group decisions until he's not, but then when it is convenient for the story he is back for group support. I like Rick, mostly because Lincoln is such an awesome actor but Rick is all over the place, aside from his changing as a person, growth is good. One scene "we don't kill people" the next scene he just starts shooting people because "we can't trust anyone but us" then it is back to "let's see who they are." Rick is either Bi-Polar or poorly written.
One of the golden rules in fantasy is it doesn't have to hold true to our world but it must stay consistent in the one created. Walking Dead breaks this rule all the time and it is just sad. I think we are lead to assume other than zombies all other aspects of the world are equal to ours. So Daryl uses a crossbow to be quiet but drives around a motorcycle, a firetruck that doesn't run still has a hose with pressure, the van off the bridge, suddenly a swarm of zombies appear in the wide open and not one person in the group hears or sees this before hand, you get the idea. A few missteps ok, can't catch everything, but this many is again sloppy writing.
I think a lot of this comes down to how inconsistent the writing team is and no end goal insight. You have this many creative people on the same thing, they will all have different ideas on what the primary traits are for each character. What makes Michonne Michonne probably varies between every writer, it would be near impossible to have the character remain one. Imagine if Stephen King wrote Harry Potter, or Brad Meltzer. You'd get a very different story. Now imagine Rowling, King and Meltzer wrote different chapters for the same book... At least if they could sit down and say one day Rick will be a Congressmen when the US rebuilds, or Carl will start a new religion because of the never ending apocalypse. You'd have something, everything that character does would have to lead to that end point. I'd be willing to bet back in season 4 that didn't even know when Tyrese was going to die. They probably felt ok it his time for him to die when they started writing the current batch of episodes.
Obviously this show entertains a lot of people, so it is doing something very right for them, but to me it feels like a story blowing in the wind. Up until Walking Dead I didn't even watch TV shows, I felt they were a waste of time. Better stories could be found in books, but a friend convinced me to give Walking Dead a shot, and he was right...for a time.
season 1 is an anomaly. they had no choice but to pake so much into so little. they were only granted 6 episodes with no guarantee of a pickup for season 2.
I totally agree about any plot (no matter how implausible) needs to remain consistent, as you said. I can suspend belief about a zombie apocalypse happening, but as I mentioned before, the "where do they get enough gas to go on a 1000 mile road trip?" is a small detail yet a little bit of a problem for me. and yes, the motorcycle thing is a bit odd to me too.
I think the points you bring up about characters not remaining consistent, though, I disagree with slightly. I think in any real world situation, yes, most people stay the same. But these characters are forced to evolve at an alarming rate given their constantly changing circumstances. what you may do one minute, you may not the next. context is everything. daryl stopped carol from killing noah, if you recall, and then looked like, in the same day, he was going to leave him for dead. in any normal situation, yes, that seems weird and inconsistent, but the circumstances dramatically changed during the course of the episode as well.
one day the group isn't going to slaughter a group of people, but with the terminus folks, a different story altogether with what they put them through.
I don't find they spend too much time on character development, then again, no show could be as terrible at that as Lost was. entire episodes, for weeks at a fucking time, with nothing but showing who Hurley was before the crash, or Party of Five guy in the hospital with his dad and shit. it was maddening. I don't see that in TWD. I didn't like the one episode with just Beth and Daryl in the cabin, but beyond that, I don't have an issue with that. I do recall, however, one 2 or 3 episode stretch in Season 4 I believe without so much as a mention of Rick and the main group. to me that was as huge mistake. You don't have 3 episodes of Seinfeld with just Kramer and George.
and I'm just not buying into all this "shock value" stuff. if they didn't kill Merle, it's unrealistic. if they do, it's for shock value. Merle redeemed himself for the sake of his brother. Merle was an ass. But they wanted to show that everyone has a redeeming quality. Even the guvnah. or so it seemed. if they kill during the finale, "it's for shock value". but when they turn around and do it in the premiere, people also cry "shock value". so when can they kill someone off? the second last episode? the third last? but then it's anti-climactic!
I can't imagine it would be very easy for the writers to decide at ANY point to kill off a major character. Bob wasn't major. Beth and Tyrese were. Two main characters in two episodes. That's huge.
the only way the writing of this show would be set from the beginning were if they were to follow the comics to the letter. and that would be boring as hell. no show is written like that. of course they don't know yet where they are going to end up. they are talking about seasons 11 and 12 and where that's going to go. so I think they have a good idea where they are headed, but the individual plot twists will be ever changing along the way, depending what works and what doesn't. sometimes you don't know what works on tv until it airs and you hear feedback.
anyway, I appreciate your "long winded" response. that's what I was hoping for.
11 or 12 seasons?? I'd be surprised if they can keep up ratings that long, and not because of the show but attention spans of the audience. When will zombie fatigue kick in or the next drama craze...
I don't get it, it's the same thing every show- kill zombies, walk for a while, run for a little while, almost die, and repeat.. what's the appeal for you?
I don't get it, it's the same thing every show- kill zombies, walk for a while, run for a little while, almost die, and repeat.. what's the appeal for you?
if that's what you think it is, there's really no answer that I can give you.
I don't get it, it's the same thing every show- kill zombies, walk for a while, run for a little while, almost die, and repeat.. what's the appeal for you?
At it's best it is an interpretation of how humans would live in the setting. How would humans handle being forced to fight for their basic necessities, how that would affect them, all the while being hunted by a untiring predator. Zombies are supposed to be more a setting than an antagonist. At it's worst to falls into a lot of zombie horror cliches.
I don't get it, it's the same thing every show- kill zombies, walk for a while, run for a little while, almost die, and repeat.. what's the appeal for you?
did you/do you like breaking bad? or was that just a show about a guy who made some drugs, shaved his head, had some doctor appointments, killed a few rival drug dealers, and repeat?
as pearljamaholic stated, the show isn't about zombies. it's about survival. the walking dead title refers to the people, not the zombies. the zombies are just the modern vehicle to write the story of an apocalypse and everything that would/may go along with that.
I don't watch zombie movies (except one: 28 Days Later). Never have. I watch this show for the show, not the zombies. I have found some of the biggest critics of the show are zombie-genre fans. not enough zombies. not enough zombie kills. blah blah blah.
Dont tell me if you have read the comics but what is up with "aaron"?? Clean doesnt look to be starving?? Wonder what he is up to!
"I'll ride the wave,Where it takes me, I'll hold the pain, Release me"
"I'm not about to give thanks or appologize"
"Caught a bolt of lighting, cursed the day he let it go"
Dont tell me if you have read the comics but what is up with "aaron"?? Clean doesnt look to be starving?? Wonder what he is up to!
I was kinda wanting Sasha or Maggie to shoot him. I guess because of their past experience. But maybe he is ok. If the writers want to surprise us I guess he will be ok. (I have not read the comics).
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
Well that episode was a complete waste of time. Besides that guy appearing at the end, pretty much nothing happened. Kinda a rough start to this half of the season.
Well that episode was a complete waste of time. Besides that guy appearing at the end, pretty much nothing happened. Kinda a rough start to this half of the season.
agreed. Actually was thinking/hoping another major character was gonna die, Maggie or Sasha.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Jesus, you people. It was a fantastic episode showing them all on the brink. The storm was obviously a metaphor for them weathering their own storm. they came together as a group at the end, after the literal storm had passed. Now they have a new obstacle in front of them disguised as the sunny day ahead. Will he be? Or is he just another storm in wait?
Not every episode is going to have blood and gore. Why do you watch this show?
Jesus, you people. It was a fantastic episode showing them all on the brink. The storm was obviously a metaphor for them weathering their own storm. they came together as a group at the end, after the literal storm had passed. Now they have a new obstacle in front of them disguised as the sunny day ahead. Will he be? Or is he just another storm in wait?
Not every episode is going to have blood and gore. Why do you watch this show?
Oh no! Someone has an opinion that's different than yours!
Jesus, you people. It was a fantastic episode showing them all on the brink. The storm was obviously a metaphor for them weathering their own storm. they came together as a group at the end, after the literal storm had passed. Now they have a new obstacle in front of them disguised as the sunny day ahead. Will he be? Or is he just another storm in wait?
Not every episode is going to have blood and gore. Why do you watch this show?
Oh no! Someone has an opinion that's different than yours!
not at all. but all some people do is bitch about the show. why watch it?
Jesus, you people. It was a fantastic episode showing them all on the brink. The storm was obviously a metaphor for them weathering their own storm. they came together as a group at the end, after the literal storm had passed. Now they have a new obstacle in front of them disguised as the sunny day ahead. Will he be? Or is he just another storm in wait?
Not every episode is going to have blood and gore. Why do you watch this show?
Oh no! Someone has an opinion that's different than yours!
not at all. but all some people do is bitch about the show. why watch it?
I do generally enjoy the show. Just because I watch it on a regular basis doesn't mean I'm going to like every single thing about it. I don't expect constant blood and gore, but I just found myself rather bored with these first 2 episodes. Both were very predictable.
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i looked at tyrese as being pretty badass. soft side but when he needed to kick ass a light went off.
next week should be interesting.
why does everyone think that the show kills off people just for shock value? every show has a cliffhanger for their finales, so this show is no different. if they didn't have the mid-season break, they still would have killed Beth. they used to do that all the time.
I'd rather this show went 16 weeks straight instead of the big break. that's really my only complaint. well, that and not knowing where they keep filling up with gas and bullets. LOL
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They drag out the plot, whether they are short on ideas I don't know. Look at everything that happened in season one, six episodes. The first episodes of season 5 seemed to go back to a decent pace, but then fizzled. The show has it's moments still. You can create drama and suspense without pulling out every detail and have a moving story without making it feel frantic. Breaking Bad was fantastic at this, so much happened in one episode, yet it never felt rushed. Walking Dead had this once. Now they stretch out one plot element to 3-4 episodes.
Characters are another area. I complained about here before, about dragging out characters and after 2 seasons with a character the need for character development should be over, tell the story let the character live in the story but details shouldn't be force feed to the audience anymore. We know who these characters are, now tell the story.
The other part is characters acting out of character to force a plot point. Recently Beth going Rambo. Or the redemption of Merle just to kill him for the shock value, which they pretty much rehashed with the Governor. Rick being all about group decisions until he's not, but then when it is convenient for the story he is back for group support. I like Rick, mostly because Lincoln is such an awesome actor but Rick is all over the place, aside from his changing as a person, growth is good. One scene "we don't kill people" the next scene he just starts shooting people because "we can't trust anyone but us" then it is back to "let's see who they are." Rick is either Bi-Polar or poorly written.
One of the golden rules in fantasy is it doesn't have to hold true to our world but it must stay consistent in the one created. Walking Dead breaks this rule all the time and it is just sad. I think we are lead to assume other than zombies all other aspects of the world are equal to ours. So Daryl uses a crossbow to be quiet but drives around a motorcycle, a firetruck that doesn't run still has a hose with pressure, the van off the bridge, suddenly a swarm of zombies appear in the wide open and not one person in the group hears or sees this before hand, you get the idea. A few missteps ok, can't catch everything, but this many is again sloppy writing.
I think a lot of this comes down to how inconsistent the writing team is and no end goal insight. You have this many creative people on the same thing, they will all have different ideas on what the primary traits are for each character. What makes Michonne Michonne probably varies between every writer, it would be near impossible to have the character remain one. Imagine if Stephen King wrote Harry Potter, or Brad Meltzer. You'd get a very different story. Now imagine Rowling, King and Meltzer wrote different chapters for the same book... At least if they could sit down and say one day Rick will be a Congressmen when the US rebuilds, or Carl will start a new religion because of the never ending apocalypse. You'd have something, everything that character does would have to lead to that end point. I'd be willing to bet back in season 4 that didn't even know when Tyrese was going to die. They probably felt ok it his time for him to die when they started writing the current batch of episodes.
Obviously this show entertains a lot of people, so it is doing something very right for them, but to me it feels like a story blowing in the wind. Up until Walking Dead I didn't even watch TV shows, I felt they were a waste of time. Better stories could be found in books, but a friend convinced me to give Walking Dead a shot, and he was right...for a time.
I totally agree about any plot (no matter how implausible) needs to remain consistent, as you said. I can suspend belief about a zombie apocalypse happening, but as I mentioned before, the "where do they get enough gas to go on a 1000 mile road trip?" is a small detail yet a little bit of a problem for me. and yes, the motorcycle thing is a bit odd to me too.
I think the points you bring up about characters not remaining consistent, though, I disagree with slightly. I think in any real world situation, yes, most people stay the same. But these characters are forced to evolve at an alarming rate given their constantly changing circumstances. what you may do one minute, you may not the next. context is everything. daryl stopped carol from killing noah, if you recall, and then looked like, in the same day, he was going to leave him for dead. in any normal situation, yes, that seems weird and inconsistent, but the circumstances dramatically changed during the course of the episode as well.
one day the group isn't going to slaughter a group of people, but with the terminus folks, a different story altogether with what they put them through.
I don't find they spend too much time on character development, then again, no show could be as terrible at that as Lost was. entire episodes, for weeks at a fucking time, with nothing but showing who Hurley was before the crash, or Party of Five guy in the hospital with his dad and shit. it was maddening. I don't see that in TWD. I didn't like the one episode with just Beth and Daryl in the cabin, but beyond that, I don't have an issue with that. I do recall, however, one 2 or 3 episode stretch in Season 4 I believe without so much as a mention of Rick and the main group. to me that was as huge mistake. You don't have 3 episodes of Seinfeld with just Kramer and George.
and I'm just not buying into all this "shock value" stuff. if they didn't kill Merle, it's unrealistic. if they do, it's for shock value. Merle redeemed himself for the sake of his brother. Merle was an ass. But they wanted to show that everyone has a redeeming quality. Even the guvnah. or so it seemed.
if they kill during the finale, "it's for shock value". but when they turn around and do it in the premiere, people also cry "shock value". so when can they kill someone off? the second last episode? the third last? but then it's anti-climactic!
I can't imagine it would be very easy for the writers to decide at ANY point to kill off a major character. Bob wasn't major. Beth and Tyrese were. Two main characters in two episodes. That's huge.
the only way the writing of this show would be set from the beginning were if they were to follow the comics to the letter. and that would be boring as hell. no show is written like that. of course they don't know yet where they are going to end up. they are talking about seasons 11 and 12 and where that's going to go. so I think they have a good idea where they are headed, but the individual plot twists will be ever changing along the way, depending what works and what doesn't. sometimes you don't know what works on tv until it airs and you hear feedback.
anyway, I appreciate your "long winded" response. that's what I was hoping for.
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what's the appeal for you?
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as pearljamaholic stated, the show isn't about zombies. it's about survival. the walking dead title refers to the people, not the zombies. the zombies are just the modern vehicle to write the story of an apocalypse and everything that would/may go along with that.
I don't watch zombie movies (except one: 28 Days Later). Never have. I watch this show for the show, not the zombies. I have found some of the biggest critics of the show are zombie-genre fans. not enough zombies. not enough zombie kills. blah blah blah.
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"I'm not about to give thanks or appologize"
"Caught a bolt of lighting, cursed the day he let it go"
yeah the Arron guy should be interesting to see what comes of this.... as past experiences have shown it cant be good.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Not every episode is going to have blood and gore. Why do you watch this show?
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