Death penalty revisited ?......

Godfather.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/14/co ... daughters/

would any of you agree with lynch mob Justis for this case ?, it's hard to understand that these two(if found guilty) could be rehabilitated, their (alleged) actions are that of a twisted mind that have no compassion for anybody else. very scary.

Godfather.

know1

NO. Revenge killing serves no good purpose and is hypocritical.

Godfather.

know1 wrote:

NO. Revenge killing serves no good purpose and is hypocritical.

I prefer to call it preventative maintenance

Godfather.

Godfather.

know1 wrote:

NO. Revenge killing serves no good purpose and is hypocritical.

you say serves no purpose..well if you kill the crazy two guys that did this I guarantee they will never hurt anybody again, wouldn't you agree ?

and hypocritical ?..how so ?

Godfather.

know1

Godfather. wrote:

know1 wrote:

NO. Revenge killing serves no good purpose and is hypocritical.

you say serves no purpose..well if you kill the crazy two guys that did this I guarantee they will never hurt anybody again, wouldn't you agree ?

and hypocritical ?..how so ?

Godfather.

I guess you could say that is a good "result" but the purpose is the sum of all results and murdering someone is not a good thing no matter what your reasoning.

If you could ensure they were locked up and couldn't do it again, wouldn't that be the same good purpose you describe without the murder?

Godfather.

know1 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

know1 wrote:

NO. Revenge killing serves no good purpose and is hypocritical.

you say serves no purpose..well if you kill the crazy two guys that did this I guarantee they will never hurt anybody again, wouldn't you agree ?

and hypocritical ?..how so ?

Godfather.

I guess you could say that is a good "result" but the purpose is the sum of all results and murdering someone is not a good thing no matter what your reasoning.

If you could ensure they were locked up and couldn't do it again, wouldn't that be the same good purpose you describe without the murder?

that's a good idea and I could agree with you, on the other hand nobody ever escaped death to come back and kill again,it's very final in that respect.
I don't like the taking of a life but I find it hard to settle for a prison sentence while somebody's family is in the morgue or buried because of a killers callus nature.

Godfather.

know1

Godfather. wrote:

that's a good idea and I could agree with you, on the other hand nobody ever escaped death to come back and kill again,it's very final in that respect.
I don't like the taking of a life but I find it hard to settle for a prison sentence while somebody's family is in the morgue or buried because of a killers callus nature.

Godfather.

But what's the difference? Again, why is revenge a good thing. If you could ensure they wouldn't kill again, wouldn't it be better than taking it upon yourself to kill them?

fife

i still have this idea in my head that says " killing is bad and since you killed someone we are going to kill you"

Jason P

know1 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

know1 wrote:

NO. Revenge killing serves no good purpose and is hypocritical.

you say serves no purpose..well if you kill the crazy two guys that did this I guarantee they will never hurt anybody again, wouldn't you agree ?

and hypocritical ?..how so ?

Godfather.

I guess you could say that is a good "result" but the purpose is the sum of all results and murdering someone is not a good thing no matter what your reasoning.

If you could ensure they were locked up and couldn't do it again, wouldn't that be the same good purpose you describe without the murder?

What if they shank a prison guard? Or another prisoner? Or start raping weak inmates?

These two guys are beyond rehabilitation. One of the defendants (Hayes) has over 24 prior convictions dating back to 1980. The other defendant is a recent parolee who targeted the family at random. Home Invasion, Rape, kidnapping, theft, more rape, assault, extortion, confinement, arson, attempted murder and three successful murders . . . all in an afternoon.

Now Hayes has tried to plea guilty to avoid the death penalty for life imprisonment, which means he is sane. The prosecutors said fuck off. What goes around, comes around.

The charges include:
One count:
*First-degree aggravated sexual assault (of Hawke-Petit)
*First-degree burglary
*First-degree arson
*First-degree conspiracy to commit arson
*First-degree robbery
*Risk of injury to a Minor
*First-degree Aiding and Abetting Assault
*First-degree larceny

Six counts: Capital Felony
*Murder of two or more persons (Hawke-Petit, Hayley, Michaela) at the same time and in the course of a single transaction
*Murder of a person under 16 (Michaela Petit)
*Murder of a kidnapped person (Hawke-Petit)
*Murder of a kidnapped person (Hayley)
*Murder of a kidnapped person (Michaela)
*Murder of a person during a first-degree sexual assault (Hawke-Petit)

Six counts: First-degree kidnapping
*Kidnapping of Michaela
*Kidnapping of Hayley
*Kidnapping of Hawke-Petit (with intention to compel third person to pay or deliver money or property as ransom)
*Kidnapping of Hawke-Petit (restrained the person and abducted with the intent to accomplish or advance the *commission of a felony)
*Kidnapping of Hawke-Petit (restrained the person abducted with intent to terrorize her or a third person)
*Kidnapping of William Petit

Bronx Bombers

know1 wrote:

But what's the difference? Again, why is revenge a good thing. If you could ensure they wouldn't kill again, wouldn't it be better than taking it upon yourself to kill them?

If we execute murderers and there is in fact no deterrent effect, we have killed a bunch of murderers. If we fail to execute murderers, and doing so would in fact have deterred other murders, we have allowed the killing of a bunch of innocent victims. I would much rather risk the former. This, to me, is not a tough call.

John McAdams, Marquette University

OnTheEdge

They're a waste of good air. Tie these fuckers to a post. Dump gas on them. And light the fuckers!!!!

Welcome to Hell shitheads!!

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/14/conn-doctor-takes-witness-stand-murder-trial-wife-daughters/

would any of you agree with lynch mob Justis for this case ?, it's hard to understand that these two(if found guilty) could be rehabilitated, their (alleged) actions are that of a twisted mind that have no compassion for anybody else. very scary.

Godfather.

However twisted and barbaric some people's actions are I don't think we should ever allow ourselves to be dragged down to their level. If the state wants to set an example of right and wrong then we can start by ceasing to murder people in the name of justice. Only then can you maintain the moral high-ground and claim to be a civilized society.

On another note: What kind of a society can produce people like this? I'd really be interested in psycho-analyzing these people to find out what made them want to massacre a family in cold blood. I think the society would benefit from learning about what motivates people like this in order to try to fix the causes of these things, rather than just killing them and getting back to business as usual.

Commy

killing someone to send a message...isn't that what capital punishment is? to punish, to deter.



isn't that what terrorism is?

catefrances

lets all read moby dick shall we and take the message from it.

OnTheEdge

Commy wrote:

killing someone to send a message...isn't that what capital punishment is? to punish, to deter.



isn't that what terrorism is?

How do you relate killing a couple guys that tied young girls down on their beds and burning them with gas and fire to terorism?

OnTheEdge

I just don't understand some peoples logic. When I read something like this I imagine if it was my daughter. And I think FUCKEM.....they deserve to fucking die, because after all, it was someones daughter. Killing fucking shitheads like these will only make this a better and safer place. Plain, simple, common sense. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you people show mercy for people like this. And I know you're going to come back and explain how it's not mercy and put them in prison forever and let bubba have his way with them bla bla bla. Bottom line, they do not deserve life! They are not worthy! Get rid of them. It's done, gone, bye bye. You had your chance in this world and you fucking blew it.

I'm outta this post now, it's all been said over and over. Just felt the need to ventilate.

Commy

OnTheEdge wrote:

Commy wrote:

killing someone to send a message...isn't that what capital punishment is? to punish, to deter.



isn't that what terrorism is?

How do you relate killing a couple guys that tied young girls down on their beds and burning them with gas and fire to terorism?

its like dropping bombs on schools burning children alive, or the attack on a civilian shelter during the iraq war, where the US gov't claimed it was a communications site. journalists on the scene later described the carnage, bloody mess of people, with no sign of a communication site. it was a civilian bomb shelter that held over 500 innocent people. they knew this, and they blew it up, blowing people up and burning them alive.

that's activity you are describing, on a massive scale.



this is the same institution you would have carry out this capital punishment. its like letting jeffrey dahmer dispense justice, it doesn't make any sense.

markin ball

What would Jesus do?

Cosmo

If I were to justify capital punishment for criminals here... I would not be able to oppose the use of capital punishment in Iran. I oppose capital punishment in both America and Iran.
I understand these are horrible people that have no place in a civilized society and in no way lessen the level of evil in which they live. Put them in a place like Pelican Bay... where the worst of the worst will have to live with each other for the rest of their lives because they have proven that they cannot live amongst the rest of us.

satansbed

markin ball wrote:

What would Jesus do?

unless they where homosexual leave them live...............

nuffingman

Cosmo wrote:

If I were to justify capital punishment for criminals here... I would not be able to oppose the use of capital punishment in Iran. I oppose capital punishment in both America and Iran.
I understand these are horrible people that have no place in a civilized society and in no way lessen the level of evil in which they live. Put them in a place like Pelican Bay... where the worst of the worst will have to live with each other for the rest of their lives because they have proven that they cannot live amongst the rest of us.

I agree with all you say. However.

I think it's easy for us to sit at our computers in our comfortable chairs and dispense wisdom about the death penalty. The question I ask is what our opinion would be if it happened to our families.

BLACK35

OnTheEdge wrote:

I just don't understand some peoples logic. When I read something like this I imagine if it was my daughter. And I think FUCKEM.....they deserve to fucking die, because after all, it was someones daughter. Killing fucking shitheads like these will only make this a better and safer place. Plain, simple, common sense. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you people show mercy for people like this. And I know you're going to come back and explain how it's not mercy and put them in prison forever and let bubba have his way with them bla bla bla. Bottom line, they do not deserve life! They are not worthy! Get rid of them. It's done, gone, bye bye. You had your chance in this world and you fucking blew it.

I'm outta this post now, it's all been said over and over. Just felt the need to ventilate.

I agree 100% with you. I try and look at it as if it was my own blood and I think other people should to. Something as terrible as what they did and the history they have behind them, don't deserve to live anymore. They had there chance to rehabilitate and they chose not to and to stick to the life of a criminal. Its not like this was their first time. If it was their first crime ever, maybe and I mean just maybe you give them a shot to rehabilitate, otherwise it time for Old Smokey to make an appearance.
Its time criminals face some harsh penalties for all crimes they commit instead of babying them all the time and letting them work the system.

redrock

nuffingman wrote:

I think it's easy for us to sit at our computers in our comfortable chairs and dispense wisdom about the death penalty. The question I ask is what our opinion would be if it happened to our families.

There have been a number of threads over time regarding the death penalty. In one of them, a member of the board had the sadness of having a member of his family (sister, I think) murdered. He was still against the death penalty. One example, but a real one on this board. I'm sure a good number of people who are against the death penalty would think them same.

BLACK35

nuffingman wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

If I were to justify capital punishment for criminals here... I would not be able to oppose the use of capital punishment in Iran. I oppose capital punishment in both America and Iran.
I understand these are horrible people that have no place in a civilized society and in no way lessen the level of evil in which they live. Put them in a place like Pelican Bay... where the worst of the worst will have to live with each other for the rest of their lives because they have proven that they cannot live amongst the rest of us.

I agree with all you say. However.

I think it's easy for us to sit at our computers in our comfortable chairs and dispense wisdom about the death penalty. The question I ask is what our opinion would be if it happened to our families.

You know what, if my brother, father, or mother committed a crime as sick as they did and there is no doubt they did. They don't deserve to live, I have no problem saying that.
I don't think the death penalty needs to apply to all crimes here, just the most visciuos and sickest of crimes....mass murders, rapists, & sick crimes against kids and babies

satansbed

BLACK35 wrote:

OnTheEdge wrote:

I just don't understand some peoples logic. When I read something like this I imagine if it was my daughter. And I think FUCKEM.....they deserve to fucking die, because after all, it was someones daughter. Killing fucking shitheads like these will only make this a better and safer place. Plain, simple, common sense. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you people show mercy for people like this. And I know you're going to come back and explain how it's not mercy and put them in prison forever and let bubba have his way with them bla bla bla. Bottom line, they do not deserve life! They are not worthy! Get rid of them. It's done, gone, bye bye. You had your chance in this world and you fucking blew it.

I'm outta this post now, it's all been said over and over. Just felt the need to ventilate.

I agree 100% with you. I try and look at it as if it was my own blood and I think other people should to. Something as terrible as what they did and the history they have behind them, don't deserve to live anymore. They had there chance to rehabilitate and they chose not to and to stick to the life of a criminal. Its not like this was their first time. If it was their first crime ever, maybe and I mean just maybe you give them a shot to rehabilitate, otherwise it time for Old Smokey to make an appearance.
Its time criminals face some harsh penalties for all crimes they commit instead of babying them all the time and letting them work the system.

so why dont you look them up for life.... its probably more of a deterrent

BLACK35

satansbed wrote:

BLACK35 wrote:

OnTheEdge wrote:

I just don't understand some peoples logic. When I read something like this I imagine if it was my daughter. And I think FUCKEM.....they deserve to fucking die, because after all, it was someones daughter. Killing fucking shitheads like these will only make this a better and safer place. Plain, simple, common sense. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you people show mercy for people like this. And I know you're going to come back and explain how it's not mercy and put them in prison forever and let bubba have his way with them bla bla bla. Bottom line, they do not deserve life! They are not worthy! Get rid of them. It's done, gone, bye bye. You had your chance in this world and you fucking blew it.

I'm outta this post now, it's all been said over and over. Just felt the need to ventilate.

I agree 100% with you. I try and look at it as if it was my own blood and I think other people should to. Something as terrible as what they did and the history they have behind them, don't deserve to live anymore. They had there chance to rehabilitate and they chose not to and to stick to the life of a criminal. Its not like this was their first time. If it was their first crime ever, maybe and I mean just maybe you give them a shot to rehabilitate, otherwise it time for Old Smokey to make an appearance.
Its time criminals face some harsh penalties for all crimes they commit instead of babying them all the time and letting them work the system.

so why dont you look them up for life.... its probably more of a deterrent

Its your tax dollars at work, if you don't mind paying for the sick individual for the next 30 years.

nuffingman

redrock wrote:

nuffingman wrote:

I think it's easy for us to sit at our computers in our comfortable chairs and dispense wisdom about the death penalty. The question I ask is what our opinion would be if it happened to our families.

There have been a number of threads over time regarding the death penalty. In one of them, a member of the board had the sadness of having a member of his family (sister, I think) murdered. He was still against the death penalty. One example, but a real one on this board. I'm sure a good number of people who are against the death penalty would think them same.

You're probably right. I just think that if someone murdered one of my gorgeous daughters I'd like them to come to an extremely gruesome end.

satansbed

countries with the death penalty are more likely to have a higher murder rate....

iran also has a lower murder rate than america

satansbed

this is a good read http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/092200-01.htm

dimitrispearljam

im against death penalty...eye for an eye put you in the same level with the murderer...
there is no penalty that brings back dead people..murderers should stay in prison for life.
justice must not mean revenge

redrock

nuffingman wrote:

You're probably right. I just think that if someone murdered one of my gorgeous daughters I'd like them to come to an extremely gruesome end.

Me too, but when the time comes, would you be able to actually 'flip the switch' and watch someone die, knowing you have killed him/her and therefore lowering yourself at that person's level? I don't think I could. And what after? Your daughters still gone, your pain still there but now you are also a murderer (though 'legal')....