picking on kids and belittling them is NOT working out differences, if anything it is projecting whatever issues and insecurities the bully has onto the victims. bullies have been known to display issues such as animal cruelty and abuse as well, so it is not working out differences, it is causing differences.
your attitude of "its normal" and "its natural" and "it is how kids work things out" are completely nonsensical and contributes to the problem by burying your head in the sand saying "fuck it there is no other way".
LOL, as opposed to your attitude of "Bullying" leads to suicide and kids getting lit on fire... Should we ban /punish anybody that hurts your feelings, because that what you make it sound like. Your definition of bullying has ranged from intimidation, staring to arson and suicide. Well if the latter is what you are using to define bullying then I am in agreeance with everybody. But if you include poking fun, and starting in your definition then that is why I am disagree with all of you. And for all of those labeling me a pro-bully, please quote for me where i said I was for bullying??? Ill be waiting.
picking on kids and belittling them is NOT working out differences, if anything it is projecting whatever issues and insecurities the bully has onto the victims. bullies have been known to display issues such as animal cruelty and abuse as well, so it is not working out differences, it is causing differences.
your attitude of "its normal" and "its natural" and "it is how kids work things out" are completely nonsensical and contributes to the problem by burying your head in the sand saying "fuck it there is no other way".
LOL, as opposed to your attitude of "Bullying" leads to suicide and kids getting lit on fire... Should we ban /punish anybody that hurts your feelings, because that what you make it sound like. Your definition of bullying has ranged from intimidation, staring to arson and suicide. Well if the latter is what you are using to define bullying then I am in agreeance with everybody. But if you include poking fun, and starting in your definition then that is why I am disagree with all of you. And for all of those labeling me a pro-bully, please quote for me where i said I was for bullying??? Ill be waiting.
who, other that you, included "poking fun" in this conversation...?
you don't seem to understand the words that folks write...
Its acutally a good character builder and offers the first stages where you stand up for your self or beliefs. ...Its a part of childhood development. People need to quit making it a bigger issue than it is.
right after you called me a clown and before you called me a 'pusscake'
After reading this thread in more depth, I think some adults need to work on "bullying" more than kids..haha
But seriously, seems like there's some communication or definition confusions. I don't think HeidiJam is actually saying to ignore the problem, but more so to the point that how much can we really stop kids from acting like just that, kids? Of course there's some invisible line in the sand where kids or adults take things beyond the norm, and everyone can teach their own kids the right way to act towards others, but it doesn't always stick or work out that way. In terms of the examples of suicide or similar, I don't think in anything in life you can base a law or rule of thumb on extreme examples as it is very, very skewed. Lastly, and I already threw my 2 cents in a few pages back, but at what point do things like bullying over protect people compared to simply teaching humans to act like decent human beings?? Seems like all these protective measures we have in society don't really aim to hit the mark we should be targeting.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Why do you keep insisting that bullying is the way children deal with things? This is not true at all. Bullying is the way SOME children and SOME adults deal with things. It's about the person, not the age. And your attitude encourages it.
You can address bullying with education and consequences. Why do you act so fucking helpless?
Because it is the way children deal with differences, they lack the maturity, so they tend to make fun, etc.
The problem is you people keep stretching the definition of bullying to where you can justify your comments. How does my attitude encourage it??? Your the one whos acting helpless, like bullying is a new thing.
What the fuck are you talking about? :? How am I acting like bullying is a new thing or acting helpless? And you say people have stretched the definition of bullying, yet you haven't defined it. So please enlighten us with your definition of bullying. And then demonstrate how children - all children and no adults, as you imply - deal with differences in that way. I never dealt with differences by bullying. Did you? And your attitude encourages it because it is dismissive and portrays bullying as a normal, reasonable behavior. People are saying that children should be taught better ways to deal with their differences and you have argued with them as if that's not possible or even desireable. Do your children still shit their pants, or did you just tell yourself that this is the way children behave and not teach them better ways to deal with their bowel movements?
Why do you keep insisting that bullying is the way children deal with things? This is not true at all. Bullying is the way SOME children and SOME adults deal with things. It's about the person, not the age. And your attitude encourages it.
You can address bullying with education and consequences. Why do you act so fucking helpless?
Maybe it's the way heidijam deals with things?
I think so. Seems to be a theme in every thread - act helpless and blame others.
picking on kids and belittling them is NOT working out differences, if anything it is projecting whatever issues and insecurities the bully has onto the victims. bullies have been known to display issues such as animal cruelty and abuse as well, so it is not working out differences, it is causing differences.
your attitude of "its normal" and "its natural" and "it is how kids work things out" are completely nonsensical and contributes to the problem by burying your head in the sand saying "fuck it there is no other way".
LOL, as opposed to your attitude of "Bullying" leads to suicide and kids getting lit on fire... Should we ban /punish anybody that hurts your feelings, because that what you make it sound like. Your definition of bullying has ranged from intimidation, staring to arson and suicide. Well if the latter is what you are using to define bullying then I am in agreeance with everybody. But if you include poking fun, and starting in your definition then that is why I am disagree with all of you. And for all of those labeling me a pro-bully, please quote for me where i said I was for bullying??? Ill be waiting.
I hope if one of your kids is ever lit on fire or commits suicide because of bullying you'll come back here and share your perspective with us then.
but i have to ask... what is fairly common?? bullying or the fact that it builds character??
so because bullying is inevitable we should in your opinion do what????
and no being bullied as an adult doesnt youre weak it means the bully isnt mature enough to be an adult. it means they lack the tools to deal with a situation unless they resort to inappropriate behaviour. bullying is always the fault of the bully NOT their target.
Bullying is fairly common.
You are right, the bullying adult is incapable of dealing with things maturly,I agree with that statement. I meant that if you are an adult you should be smart/mature enough to not leat it bother you. YOu should know it is simlply insecurities/jelously of the bully.
So what about bullying in the form of stalking or domestic violence? Victims should just be smart/mature enough to not let it bother them? Builds character and people shouldn't see it as a problem and go tattle and we should end all our pusscake laws against it?
Scb, these are extreme examples and not really "bullying". I don't fully agree with HeidiJam's comments, but your "examples" are not the norm by any means of the imagination.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Scb, these are extreme examples and not really "bullying". I don't fully agree with HeidiJam's comments, but your "examples" are not the norm by any means of the imagination.
How so? Domestic violence and stalking are quite prevalent and just because the people involved are (presumably) not kids doesn't mean it doesn't count as bullying.
I Googled the definition of bullying and here's the first thing that came up:
"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."
This definition includes three important components:
1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.
Stalking and domestic fit that description. And I can post all kinds of prevalence data if you'd like.
picking on kids and belittling them is NOT working out differences, if anything it is projecting whatever issues and insecurities the bully has onto the victims. bullies have been known to display issues such as animal cruelty and abuse as well, so it is not working out differences, it is causing differences.
your attitude of "its normal" and "its natural" and "it is how kids work things out" are completely nonsensical and contributes to the problem by burying your head in the sand saying "fuck it there is no other way".
LOL, as opposed to your attitude of "Bullying" leads to suicide and kids getting lit on fire... Should we ban /punish anybody that hurts your feelings, because that what you make it sound like. Your definition of bullying has ranged from intimidation, staring to arson and suicide. Well if the latter is what you are using to define bullying then I am in agreeance with everybody. But if you include poking fun, and starting in your definition then that is why I am disagree with all of you. And for all of those labeling me a pro-bully, please quote for me where i said I was for bullying??? Ill be waiting.
I hope if one of your kids is ever lit on fire or commits suicide because of bullying you'll come back here and share your perspective with us then.
Why are you bring up my children as if i have said anything about you or your family. This is a sad display of an adult to bring up someone kids let alone talking about them being murded. Thank you for hoping one of my kids get lit on fire. I will not come back and post that (even though by what you have posted, hopes happens to my girls) as this will be my last post here in the PJ community.
Its acutally a good character builder and offers the first stages where you stand up for your self or beliefs. ...Its a part of childhood development. People need to quit making it a bigger issue than it is.
right after you called me a clown and before you called me a 'pusscake'
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
hey, Heidi, while you're gone, you might want to learn how to read. he never said he hopes your children get lit on fire. he said "I hope IF one of your kids gets lit on fire..".
I hope if one of your kids is ever lit on fire or commits suicide because of bullying you'll come back here and share your perspective with us then.
Why are you bring up my children as if i have said anything about you or your family. This is a sad display of an adult to bring up someone kids let alone talking about them being murded. Thank you for hoping one of my kids get lit on fire. I will not come back and post that (even though by what you have posted, hopes happens to my girls) as this will be my last post here in the PJ community.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Calling someone a clown is not in keeping with the Posting Guidelines. Did you mean to ban yourself?
Reposting this AGAIN.
Posting Guidelines
1. Be nice. We're very big on RESPECT here. Respect for each other, the band and the Ten Club Community forum environment. Please think of it as if you are as a guest in someone else's home. Please do not put your posting privileges at risk.
2. Discuss, disagree and debatepolitely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here. This includes abusive Private Messages.
It seems people are getting personal and offending each other on purpose. It's not ok. If you can't debate the topic without getting personal, you don't belong here and will be leaving the forums. So just remember, if you're not following these guidelines, you're banning yourselves. Personal grudges will open the exit door for you. Let the bannings begin.
If you say that is "bullying" so is rape...but I doubt you'll hear anyone say someone is a convicted bully..lol So in sum, as I previously mentioned, "bullying" is kinda a vague term used to describe people picking on others, but as you clearly show, it can be used to describe any act in which a person acts improperly to some degree. You also seem to be attributing this topic to suit the acts of adults more so than simply kids. Not to say it solely is an act by kids, but in essence and in this topic, bullying refers to children in the ways they pick on one another or some to one.. not adults to kids or something otherwise.
Scb, these are extreme examples and not really "bullying". I don't fully agree with HeidiJam's comments, but your "examples" are not the norm by any means of the imagination.
How so? Domestic violence and stalking are quite prevalent and just because the people involved are (presumably) not kids doesn't mean it doesn't count as bullying.
I Googled the definition of bullying and here's the first thing that came up:
"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."
This definition includes three important components:
1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.
Stalking and domestic fit that description. And I can post all kinds of prevalence data if you'd like.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
LOL, as opposed to your attitude of "Bullying" leads to suicide and kids getting lit on fire... Should we ban /punish anybody that hurts your feelings, because that what you make it sound like. Your definition of bullying has ranged from intimidation, staring to arson and suicide. Well if the latter is what you are using to define bullying then I am in agreeance with everybody. But if you include poking fun, and starting in your definition then that is why I am disagree with all of you. And for all of those labeling me a pro-bully, please quote for me where i said I was for bullying??? Ill be waiting.
I hope if one of your kids is ever lit on fire or commits suicide because of bullying you'll come back here and share your perspective with us then.
Why are you bring up my children as if i have said anything about you or your family. This is a sad display of an adult to bring up someone kids let alone talking about them being murded. Thank you for hoping one of my kids get lit on fire. I will not come back and post that (even though by what you have posted, hopes happens to my girls) as this will be my last post here in the PJ community.
I can't say I'll miss you, but let's get a couple of things straight:
1. I NEVER, EVER said I hope anything bad happens to one of your kids.
2. This is a thread about kids being bullied, where committing suicide and being lit on fire have been used as examples of real-life consequences of bullying. Your position in this thread is that people who seek to discourage bullying - and therefore these possible consequences - are "pussies," "clowns," "pusscakes," "weak faries" [sic], & "fucking clueless". I have no doubt that you are able to hold this position because you have not experienced these consequences. Thus the post about what your attitude might be IF you ever did have the misfortune of experiencing these things. When the conversation is about people's kids being bullied - and when you have drawn on your own experience as a parent and criticized the experiences of other parents and their children within the context of this conversation - it is reasonable for someone else to draw on your experience (or lack thereof) as a parent when considering your point of view.
I'm sorry if I offended you, but I think you misunderstood my post.
If you say that is "bullying" so is rape...but I doubt you'll hear anyone say someone is a convicted bully..lol So in sum, as I previously mentioned, "bullying" is kinda a vague term used to describe people picking on others, but as you clearly show, it can be used to describe any act in which a person acts improperly to some degree. You also seem to be attributing this topic to suit the acts of adults more so than simply kids. Not to say it solely is an act by kids, but in essence and in this topic, bullying refers to children in the ways they pick on one another or some to one.. not adults to kids or something otherwise.
Scb, these are extreme examples and not really "bullying". I don't fully agree with HeidiJam's comments, but your "examples" are not the norm by any means of the imagination.
How so? Domestic violence and stalking are quite prevalent and just because the people involved are (presumably) not kids doesn't mean it doesn't count as bullying.
I Googled the definition of bullying and here's the first thing that came up:
"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."
This definition includes three important components:
1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.
Stalking and domestic fit that description. And I can post all kinds of prevalence data if you'd like.
I think rape CAN be used as a form of bullying, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. (See #2 above.) My point, though, was that it's not just people picking on others and it doesn't just occur among kids. I think it's an important correlation to make since child bullies, if left unchecked, can grow up to become adult bullies (who may commit domestic violence or stalk people).
I think that is far fetched and a stretch in practical terms. Firstly, and in many respects, it's simply semantics. Someone could be considering "stealing" for taking another persons' life as well, but we simply call it murder, you know? Secondly and more importantly, what proof do you have that a child bully automatically grows up to become a future law breaker (the extreme examples you mention)? Sure it is possible, but the real psychology behind such people is typically the opposite, that people who have been picked on, are socially awkward or have social skill issues or stunted family issues, carry out crimes as you mention, not the one's doing the bullying.
I think rape CAN be used as a form of bullying, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. (See #2 above.) My point, though, was that it's not just people picking on others and it doesn't just occur among kids. I think it's an important correlation to make since child bullies, if left unchecked, can grow up to become adult bullies (who may commit domestic violence or stalk people).
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I think that is far fetched and a stretch in practical terms. Firstly, and in many respects, it's simply semantics. Someone could be considering "stealing" for taking another persons' life as well, but we simply call it murder, you know? Secondly and more importantly, what proof do you have that a child bully automatically grows up to become a future law breaker (the extreme examples you mention)? Sure it is possible, but the real psychology behind such people is typically the opposite, that people who have been picked on, are socially awkward or have social skill issues or stunted family issues, carry out crimes as you mention, not the one's doing the bullying.
I think rape CAN be used as a form of bullying, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. (See #2 above.) My point, though, was that it's not just people picking on others and it doesn't just occur among kids. I think it's an important correlation to make since child bullies, if left unchecked, can grow up to become adult bullies (who may commit domestic violence or stalk people).
I don't think it's semantics on my part, though maybe it is on your part. Those things are (often) a form of bullying. In what way do you define bullying where they're not? Just because extreme forms of bullying have their own names doesn't mean they're not bullying.
I never said a child bully automatically grows up to become a future law breaker, so please re-read my post. I said child bullies CAN grow up to be adult bullies. It makes sense to me that children who aren't good at managing conflict, if they don't learn any better, might grow up to be adults who manage conflict in the same inappropriate way, no? Or do they just magically become different people when they turn 18?
Well this simply goes back to your regards for the definition of "bullying"; in some cases it's an extreme form of such but to me I find it silly to say a rapist is a "bully", more so they encompass a few attributes of it, but mostly are a sociopath carrying out an act of power, control and sexual gratification. Such things aren't really in the full comprehension of kids bullying one another which is really the main point I'm making, kids don't bully with the knowledge and prerequisites you're applying to them. It's typically silly, arbitrary and stupid things why they pick on one another.
I don't think it's semantics on my part, though maybe it is on your part. Those things are (often) a form of bullying. In what way do you define bullying where they're not? Just because extreme forms of bullying have their own names doesn't mean they're not bullying.
I never said a child bully automatically grows up to become a future law breaker, so please re-read my post. I said child bullies CAN grow up to be adult bullies. It makes sense to me that children who aren't good at managing conflict, if they don't learn any better, might grow up to be adults who manage conflict in the same inappropriate way, no? Or do they just magically become different people when they turn 18?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
your first sentence is completely contradictory. you did not fight back and the bullying stopped and you question and mock me if that is the advice i would give? i have had 14 mma fights in my life so of course im gonna teach my kid to fight so he would never have to experience what i did. i am only re-iterating what the kid who was set ablaze said. if you fight back, especially against multiple bullies, not just one as you are implying in your post, it gets worse. i fought back and ended up in the hospital with 20 stitches in my hand and several more in my face and a broken nose. did you not read what happened to me? you are so far off base in your posts on this subject that nothing you have to say on this topic has any relevence to me.
Please explain how I am off base??? Because i had a different experience than you concerning bullying, I am the one off base??? You just said you agree with the kid when he said that "you can not fight back
because they will do something worse". so what is your advice??? You agree that you can't fight back but your raising yoru kid to fight back... You sound clueless.
i have to agree with you heidijam. if you can stand up to bullies then you absolutely should. however not everyone is strong enough to do that and thats when others need to step in and tell bullies their behaviour is not acceptable.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think Bullys exist because meathead parents allow it to exist.
In most cases, go to a school yard bully's house... and you'll meet their meathead bully parents.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Well this simply goes back to your regards for the definition of "bullying"; in some cases it's an extreme form of such but to me I find it silly to say a rapist is a "bully", more so they encompass a few attributes of it, but mostly are a sociopath carrying out an act of power, control and sexual gratification. Such things aren't really in the full comprehension of kids bullying one another which is really the main point I'm making, kids don't bully with the knowledge and prerequisites you're applying to them. It's typically silly, arbitrary and stupid things why they pick on one another.
I don't think it's semantics on my part, though maybe it is on your part. Those things are (often) a form of bullying. In what way do you define bullying where they're not? Just because extreme forms of bullying have their own names doesn't mean they're not bullying.
I never said a child bully automatically grows up to become a future law breaker, so please re-read my post. I said child bullies CAN grow up to be adult bullies. It makes sense to me that children who aren't good at managing conflict, if they don't learn any better, might grow up to be adults who manage conflict in the same inappropriate way, no? Or do they just magically become different people when they turn 18?
I don't think most rapists are bullies because (in the U.S., at least) they seem to only rape the same person once. But what is bullying about if not power and control?
Bullying for children is typically about joking, mocking, making fun of or even in mean ways, picking on an outsider who they feel are weaker, don't fit in or in some cases for some small issue which is exemplified (looks, religion, race, appearance, etc). As I said earlier, you're applying adult like qualities, thoughts and actions to children which they do not think or have yet. No child bully picks on others has a power and control complex. To make that correlation is simply a stretch at best case scenario.
I don't think most rapists are bullies because (in the U.S., at least) they seem to only rape the same person once. But what is bullying about if not power and control?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I would have to disagree with this FiveB247X. I was a semi-popular kid who fit into none of your categories. I was not weak, I had lots of friends, etc etc. I confronted a high school bully at the bar in my late 20's, and he apologized to me for all the mean shit he pulled, and I asked him why he did it, and he said he honestly didn't really know.
I know. It was his own lack of self-esteem that he felt he needed to prop himself up. He saw a nice person (me) and wanted, needed, some type of control over someone, so he picked me. It worked for a while. Then I stood up to the fucker and he head-butted me in the hallway after class (I sat in "his" seat in History and refused to move) and told me if I ever did that again I'd be sorry. I honestly think he was shit scared that I challenged his "authority" and stood my ground in front of the entire class. My teacher just stood there and let it go. Maybe it was good that he did that, maybe it wasn't. But he should have probably checked in with me after the fact, which he never did.
I fail to see, catefrances, how this makes me "weak" or unable to stand up for myself. I don't like that you seem to have almost put the onus of taking care of bullying on the weak, like it's their problem for not being able to deal with it. I dealt with it, and was further intimidated.
Just to clarify, cate, what was weak about me, or anyone else that gets bullied?
Bullying for children is typically about joking, mocking, making fun of or even in mean ways, picking on an outsider who they feel are weaker, don't fit in or in some cases for some small issue which is exemplified (looks, religion, race, appearance, etc). As I said earlier, you're applying adult like qualities, thoughts and actions to children which they do not think or have yet. No child bully picks on others has a power and control complex. To make that correlation is simply a stretch at best case scenario.
I don't think most rapists are bullies because (in the U.S., at least) they seem to only rape the same person once. But what is bullying about if not power and control?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I fail to see, catefrances, how this makes me "weak" or unable to stand up for myself. I don't like that you seem to have almost put the onus of taking care of bullying on the weak, like it's their problem for not being able to deal with it. I dealt with it, and was further intimidated.
Just to clarify, cate, what was weak about me, or anyone else that gets bullied?
this is what i said:
if you can stand up to bullies then you absolutely should. however not everyone is strong enough to do that and thats when others need to step in and tell bullies their behaviour is not acceptable.
where have i put the onus on the bullied?? and where did i call you, or anyone else weak?
have you read any of my previous posts?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Fair enough, but it seems more from your description there was a real unknown or somewhat muddled reason why that guy picked on you. If it you want to chalk it up as "self-esteem", when you're that age, do you even recognize why you act out? I don't think so. Perhaps my prior possibilities were a bit generic or off the cuff, but I think rushing to the other end of the spectrum as Scb did in regards to power and control is over the top and much further from the truth than anything you or I said.
I would have to disagree with this FiveB247X. I was a semi-popular kid who fit into none of your categories. I was not weak, I had lots of friends, etc etc. I confronted a high school bully at the bar in my late 20's, and he apologized to me for all the mean shit he pulled, and I asked him why he did it, and he said he honestly didn't really know.
I know. It was his own lack of self-esteem that he felt he needed to prop himself up. He saw a nice person (me) and wanted, needed, some type of control over someone, so he picked me. It worked for a while. Then I stood up to the fucker and he head-butted me in the hallway after class (I sat in "his" seat in History and refused to move) and told me if I ever did that again I'd be sorry. I honestly think he was shit scared that I challenged his "authority" and stood my ground in front of the entire class. My teacher just stood there and let it go. Maybe it was good that he did that, maybe it wasn't. But he should have probably checked in with me after the fact, which he never did.
I fail to see, catefrances, how this makes me "weak" or unable to stand up for myself. I don't like that you seem to have almost put the onus of taking care of bullying on the weak, like it's their problem for not being able to deal with it. I dealt with it, and was further intimidated.
Just to clarify, cate, what was weak about me, or anyone else that gets bullied?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I read them all, cate, quite carefully. you said you should stand up to bullies if you are strong enough, then those who can't aren't strong enough, ie: weak. my apologies if you felt that was a stretch, but that's how I took it.
bullies should be dealt with the same way as criminals, the governing body over that situation, be it a principal, the police, a parent, whathaveyou. my point is that if you put the onus on the person to take care of the job, you are putting them in harm's way.
the guy from high school I spoke about was a mean muthafucka and could kick anyone's ass that stood in his way.
taking the situation into your own hands, or encouraging others to do so, sets a dangerous precedent in basically encouraging violence.
I fail to see, catefrances, how this makes me "weak" or unable to stand up for myself. I don't like that you seem to have almost put the onus of taking care of bullying on the weak, like it's their problem for not being able to deal with it. I dealt with it, and was further intimidated.
Just to clarify, cate, what was weak about me, or anyone else that gets bullied?
this is what i said:
if you can stand up to bullies then you absolutely should. however not everyone is strong enough to do that and thats when others need to step in and tell bullies their behaviour is not acceptable.
where have i put the onus on the bullied?? and where did i call you, or anyone else weak?
have you read any of my previous posts?
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who, other that you, included "poking fun" in this conversation...?
you don't seem to understand the words that folks write...
right after you called me a clown and before you called me a 'pusscake'
But seriously, seems like there's some communication or definition confusions. I don't think HeidiJam is actually saying to ignore the problem, but more so to the point that how much can we really stop kids from acting like just that, kids? Of course there's some invisible line in the sand where kids or adults take things beyond the norm, and everyone can teach their own kids the right way to act towards others, but it doesn't always stick or work out that way. In terms of the examples of suicide or similar, I don't think in anything in life you can base a law or rule of thumb on extreme examples as it is very, very skewed. Lastly, and I already threw my 2 cents in a few pages back, but at what point do things like bullying over protect people compared to simply teaching humans to act like decent human beings?? Seems like all these protective measures we have in society don't really aim to hit the mark we should be targeting.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
What the fuck are you talking about? :? How am I acting like bullying is a new thing or acting helpless? And you say people have stretched the definition of bullying, yet you haven't defined it. So please enlighten us with your definition of bullying. And then demonstrate how children - all children and no adults, as you imply - deal with differences in that way. I never dealt with differences by bullying. Did you? And your attitude encourages it because it is dismissive and portrays bullying as a normal, reasonable behavior. People are saying that children should be taught better ways to deal with their differences and you have argued with them as if that's not possible or even desireable. Do your children still shit their pants, or did you just tell yourself that this is the way children behave and not teach them better ways to deal with their bowel movements?
I think so. Seems to be a theme in every thread - act helpless and blame others.
I hope if one of your kids is ever lit on fire or commits suicide because of bullying you'll come back here and share your perspective with us then.
You haven't answered my question, by the way.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
How so? Domestic violence and stalking are quite prevalent and just because the people involved are (presumably) not kids doesn't mean it doesn't count as bullying.
I Googled the definition of bullying and here's the first thing that came up:
Stalking and domestic fit that description. And I can post all kinds of prevalence data if you'd like.
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translation: I'm wrong but I refuse to admit it.
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Reposting this AGAIN.
Posting Guidelines
1. Be nice. We're very big on RESPECT here. Respect for each other, the band and the Ten Club Community forum environment. Please think of it as if you are as a guest in someone else's home. Please do not put your posting privileges at risk.
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It seems people are getting personal and offending each other on purpose. It's not ok. If you can't debate the topic without getting personal, you don't belong here and will be leaving the forums. So just remember, if you're not following these guidelines, you're banning yourselves. Personal grudges will open the exit door for you. Let the bannings begin.
Your choice.
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Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I can't say I'll miss you, but let's get a couple of things straight:
1. I NEVER, EVER said I hope anything bad happens to one of your kids.
2. This is a thread about kids being bullied, where committing suicide and being lit on fire have been used as examples of real-life consequences of bullying. Your position in this thread is that people who seek to discourage bullying - and therefore these possible consequences - are "pussies," "clowns," "pusscakes," "weak faries" [sic], & "fucking clueless". I have no doubt that you are able to hold this position because you have not experienced these consequences. Thus the post about what your attitude might be IF you ever did have the misfortune of experiencing these things. When the conversation is about people's kids being bullied - and when you have drawn on your own experience as a parent and criticized the experiences of other parents and their children within the context of this conversation - it is reasonable for someone else to draw on your experience (or lack thereof) as a parent when considering your point of view.
I'm sorry if I offended you, but I think you misunderstood my post.
I think rape CAN be used as a form of bullying, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is. (See #2 above.) My point, though, was that it's not just people picking on others and it doesn't just occur among kids. I think it's an important correlation to make since child bullies, if left unchecked, can grow up to become adult bullies (who may commit domestic violence or stalk people).
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't think it's semantics on my part, though maybe it is on your part. Those things are (often) a form of bullying. In what way do you define bullying where they're not? Just because extreme forms of bullying have their own names doesn't mean they're not bullying.
I never said a child bully automatically grows up to become a future law breaker, so please re-read my post. I said child bullies CAN grow up to be adult bullies. It makes sense to me that children who aren't good at managing conflict, if they don't learn any better, might grow up to be adults who manage conflict in the same inappropriate way, no? Or do they just magically become different people when they turn 18?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i have to agree with you heidijam. if you can stand up to bullies then you absolutely should. however not everyone is strong enough to do that and thats when others need to step in and tell bullies their behaviour is not acceptable.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
In most cases, go to a school yard bully's house... and you'll meet their meathead bully parents.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think most rapists are bullies because (in the U.S., at least) they seem to only rape the same person once. But what is bullying about if not power and control?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I know. It was his own lack of self-esteem that he felt he needed to prop himself up. He saw a nice person (me) and wanted, needed, some type of control over someone, so he picked me. It worked for a while. Then I stood up to the fucker and he head-butted me in the hallway after class (I sat in "his" seat in History and refused to move) and told me if I ever did that again I'd be sorry. I honestly think he was shit scared that I challenged his "authority" and stood my ground in front of the entire class. My teacher just stood there and let it go. Maybe it was good that he did that, maybe it wasn't. But he should have probably checked in with me after the fact, which he never did.
I fail to see, catefrances, how this makes me "weak" or unable to stand up for myself. I don't like that you seem to have almost put the onus of taking care of bullying on the weak, like it's their problem for not being able to deal with it. I dealt with it, and was further intimidated.
Just to clarify, cate, what was weak about me, or anyone else that gets bullied?
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this is what i said:
if you can stand up to bullies then you absolutely should. however not everyone is strong enough to do that and thats when others need to step in and tell bullies their behaviour is not acceptable.
where have i put the onus on the bullied?? and where did i call you, or anyone else weak?
have you read any of my previous posts?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
bullies should be dealt with the same way as criminals, the governing body over that situation, be it a principal, the police, a parent, whathaveyou. my point is that if you put the onus on the person to take care of the job, you are putting them in harm's way.
the guy from high school I spoke about was a mean muthafucka and could kick anyone's ass that stood in his way.
taking the situation into your own hands, or encouraging others to do so, sets a dangerous precedent in basically encouraging violence.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014