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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,742
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,264
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 

    Fair enough.  Guess I would be bummed if USC was in the Rose Bowl and key players dropped, because winning the Rose Bowl means something.  I would understand but would be bummed.  Could spin it to be an opportunity for key back ups to not only get a jump on the next season with the extra month of practice as 1st team but also to have national exposure.

    Either way, I am at the point in my life where I care more about the kids then the uni.  Pay them, pay them appropriately, and then I can get back to rooting for the name of the front of the jersey.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,742
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 

    Fair enough.  Guess I would be bummed if USC was in the Rose Bowl and key players dropped, because winning the Rose Bowl means something.  I would understand but would be bummed.  Could spin it to be an opportunity for key back ups to not only get a jump on the next season with the extra month of practice as 1st team but also to have national exposure.

    Either way, I am at the point in my life where I care more about the kids then the uni.  Pay them, pay them appropriately, and then I can get back to rooting for the name of the front of the jersey.
    I'm also good with paying them.  I'd heartily support the bowl committees of each bowl paying them.  Any number of incentives to get them to play I'm down with, whether it's monetary, the chance for a title or ideally...both.  They have every right not to play but I much prefer they do.  
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 25,242
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    No, I still think ND is a top of the mid tier teams.  They aren't in the same class as Clemson, OSU and Bama.  

    Bama was one of those juggernaut teams this year.  Nick Saban is the best college FB coach because of the teams he can construct.  I thought Clemson had a chance this year but they fell way short.  OSU too.
    You still need a fourth though.  Notre Dame was the right choice. 
    Yeah maybe A&M or Oklahoma would have been a better run?

    The only better run would have been to beat Bama in the semi.  We will never know but I don't think that happens.  Oklahoma lost at home to garbage K State and lost a nail biter on the road to a very good Iowa State squad. 
    A&M was already blown out once this year by Bama.  Game was toast by half.
    K state has their moments, lol.  

    This just shows that more teams need to be in the playoffs and how far and above head and shoulders Bama continues to be and a team like ND, as good as someone may think of them, are just not up to snuff.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,264
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    No, I still think ND is a top of the mid tier teams.  They aren't in the same class as Clemson, OSU and Bama.  

    Bama was one of those juggernaut teams this year.  Nick Saban is the best college FB coach because of the teams he can construct.  I thought Clemson had a chance this year but they fell way short.  OSU too.
    You still need a fourth though.  Notre Dame was the right choice. 
    Yeah maybe A&M or Oklahoma would have been a better run?

    The only better run would have been to beat Bama in the semi.  We will never know but I don't think that happens.  Oklahoma lost at home to garbage K State and lost a nail biter on the road to a very good Iowa State squad. 
    A&M was already blown out once this year by Bama.  Game was toast by half.
    K state has their moments, lol.  

    This just shows that more teams need to be in the playoffs and how far and above head and shoulders Bama continues to be and a team like ND, as good as someone may think of them, are just not up to snuff.
    I don't see that it shows more teams in are needed - if anything it shows us fewer teams are fine.  Nobody was touching #1 and the goal of the system is to establish who is #1.
    I don't care who is 2-19.  
    If others do, I can see their desire to push for a larger playoff pool.  It certainly would be exciting, I don't argue that.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 25,242
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    No, I still think ND is a top of the mid tier teams.  They aren't in the same class as Clemson, OSU and Bama.  

    Bama was one of those juggernaut teams this year.  Nick Saban is the best college FB coach because of the teams he can construct.  I thought Clemson had a chance this year but they fell way short.  OSU too.
    You still need a fourth though.  Notre Dame was the right choice. 
    Yeah maybe A&M or Oklahoma would have been a better run?

    The only better run would have been to beat Bama in the semi.  We will never know but I don't think that happens.  Oklahoma lost at home to garbage K State and lost a nail biter on the road to a very good Iowa State squad. 
    A&M was already blown out once this year by Bama.  Game was toast by half.
    K state has their moments, lol.  

    This just shows that more teams need to be in the playoffs and how far and above head and shoulders Bama continues to be and a team like ND, as good as someone may think of them, are just not up to snuff.
    I don't see that it shows more teams in are needed - if anything it shows us fewer teams are fine.  Nobody was touching #1 and the goal of the system is to establish who is #1.
    I don't care who is 2-19.  
    If others do, I can see their desire to push for a larger playoff pool.  It certainly would be exciting, I don't argue that.
    I believe in momentum and Saban has the system on lock so why not shake things up a bit?

    An 8th seed could get hot and make a run.  If anything it would make for a good viewing experience.  

    I will agree that there isn't much discrepancy this year for 2-19.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,485
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
    I think opting out is dumb.  Bailing on your team and teammates on potentially the biggest game for some of these teams is dumb. If you want to bail, give up your scholarship. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 25,242
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
    I think opting out is dumb.  Bailing on your team and teammates on potentially the biggest game for some of these teams is dumb. If you want to bail, give up your scholarship. 
    Play in a potentially meaningless game and possibly injure myself and not make my millions or opt out?  easy choice.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,264
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
    I think opting out is dumb.  Bailing on your team and teammates on potentially the biggest game for some of these teams is dumb. If you want to bail, give up your scholarship. 
    Are you in favor of paying players?

    I ask, because I think the prevailing thought around calling players dumb for opting out and for asking them to give back their scholarship is that they owe the school the playing of an add on game to the season.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,742
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
    I think opting out is dumb.  Bailing on your team and teammates on potentially the biggest game for some of these teams is dumb. If you want to bail, give up your scholarship. 
    Play in a potentially meaningless game and possibly injure myself and not make my millions or opt out?  easy choice.
    Agreed.  I would counsel my son to sit out if he was a first rounder. 
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,264
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
    I think opting out is dumb.  Bailing on your team and teammates on potentially the biggest game for some of these teams is dumb. If you want to bail, give up your scholarship. 
    Play in a potentially meaningless game and possibly injure myself and not make my millions or opt out?  easy choice.
    Agreed.  I would counsel my son to sit out if he was a first rounder. 
    Or a second or third rounder unless there is some reason to realistically think a performance in a bowl could jump them up.
    100 out of 100 times.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,742
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So do the same people here who said ND didn't belong and was garbage because they got rolled by Alabama say the same thing about an Ohio State squad that got rolled in even more spectacular fashion?

    Gave up more points, was behind by more at half, was behind by more at the end?


    I'm not arguing for ND, I hate them.  I'm continuing to position that judging a team by how they get trashed at the hands of Alabama this year is really not right.

    Ohio State looked like the second best team....until they got demolished by Bama.  Ohio State belonged in that game, Bama was just far and away the best team in the country.

    Dammit.  Was very impressive, though.
    Thank you. I've been staying away from this thread for a bit due to my obvious bias, but have appreciated your unbiased and fair assessments. 

    I'm not even suggesting ND is better than OSU, but who else, based on a seasons body of work should have been in over Notre Dame? Dislike them as you may, they were a consensus top 4 team this season. Bama was far and away the best team this season. And it wasn't even close. Then, I would say OSU and Clemson. After that, it's probably a cluster of about 5 teams of which Notre Dame had the best resume. 

    I'm looking forward to a banter filled season with you this fall. I suspect the Clay Helton led pony riders will become more of a force to be reckoned with and ND will be somewhere in the top 12-20.
    Texas A&M's pedestrian performance against an above average North Carolina team already settled that argument in my opinion. 
    Regarding Bama, this was a super elite team.  The Buckeyes were also very short handed with the loss of two starting defensive lineman,  starting rb, all American tackle, etc. Not saying they would have beat Bama but it would have helped.  

    Bama lost players as well...much of the game w/o their safety.  (Felt badly for the kid but that was an ejection based on the rules.  He handled it with as much grace as one could...lucky nobody was hurt.)  They also went the whole second half without the guy that nobody in America could cover. 
    But I would say that Ohio State was a very good team -- and the #2 team based on what we saw, clearly.  No shame in getting tossed around by the bully, which is for certain who Bama was this season.

    Arguing over #4 is part of the fun of college football.  Always has been some level of argument....1, 2, 3, 4, etc...but at least this way we all are on the same page as to the #1.  I think the system works, overall, if that is the goal.  (Which it should be, to me.)
    System works,  I agree there.  I do like the argument that the playoffs should expand,  because you are seeing great players opt out of the bowls along with less attention on the bowls. 

    We are on different sides for that, but I would enjoy watching as a fan.  Let every conference Champ get in and then slug it out...would be interesting.
    That being stated, lots of players would still bail on the bowls. 

    There is a simple reality, to me, involved with the top tier college football athlete.  (I won't embarrass them by calling them student athletes.)
    They are in college for one reason -- to get to the NFL and draw that contract.  Even if it is only a few years this will still position them well for life.  They will not have school debt, they will have access to some classes, and hopefully 3/4 of an education....BUT their main goal is to get to the NFL.
    With that being stated, if they feel like there is enough tape out there to get them drafted where they can fulfill that goal then they have one thing that (to me) is the smart move -- opt out of any bowl game (aggrandized money / glory grab for their school/slave driver) and prepare for the draft.

    Looking out for their best interests, all around, I would encourage them to wrap up the schooling in their off-season or to set aside whatever money is needed to complete and lock that down.  If/when they finish the average NFL 3-4 year NFL career they will need to have that degree and the connections they maintained with the school network to get a good job.

    There is a way to use the NCAA bs rules to try and create a win-win, but the ultimate goal for anyone going to college should be to set them up for a financially successful life....not to play in bowl games as Juniors of Seniors in college.

    My two cents, others may have different opinions.  Until the NCAA starts paying the football players I do not think they owe them anything other than what it takes to get these kids drafted.
    I agree with all of this.  I have no moral issues with players opting out.  I'm saying if there were more teams in the playoffs, you would have fewer players opting out because the chance to play for a title may outweigh the economic concern.  I can't recall any CFP playoff player opting out since the start of this system. 
    I think opting out is dumb.  Bailing on your team and teammates on potentially the biggest game for some of these teams is dumb. If you want to bail, give up your scholarship. 
    Play in a potentially meaningless game and possibly injure myself and not make my millions or opt out?  easy choice.
    Agreed.  I would counsel my son to sit out if he was a first rounder. 
    Or a second or third rounder unless there is some reason to realistically think a performance in a bowl could jump them up.
    100 out of 100 times.
    Right, exactly. 
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,264
    Thank FSM.  There may really be a hope.

    Pac12 fires that fucking idiot Larry Scott.
    That paid that waste of space $40MM over last 12 years.  
    Fucking criminal.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
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