Michael Jackson

musicismylife78

so its one year. pretty insane. I remember how crazy it seemed when he died. It was one of those moments where time stops not just in your own life but in everyone elses as well. Seemed like for days after that ALL anyone could think or talk about. Nothing bad to say about Tupac or Biggie, their deaths were needless and tragic, but EVERYONE was a MJ fan or grew up one. Most likely the most major music related death since Kurt in 94 and probably the biggest celebrity death since Princess Di in 97.

So what have we learned 1 year later? Well, we know MJ's doctor is a creep. When someone dies under your care, especially someone as world reknowed as MJ, you dont immediately book a flight out of the country. You just dont. And his actions, as we have learned and gleened, were anything but professional and procedureal and standard. I view his actions as a contributing factor to the death of MJ. If nothing else he should be prevented from practicing medicine. You dont give someone propofol, period. end of story. That alone is enough to have his liscence revoked.

Additionally, we know MJ didnt turn himself white like everyone said for the last 20 years of his life. He had documented vitiligo. Thats proven, Its fact. And its in the medical records. Vitiligo, causes patches of discolor to appear on the skin. Look at MJ around 83 84 85 86, anyone can see their are splotches. The big question was why was he white. Well, the natural assumption given his vitiligo, is that he had splotches on his body, so severe and intense, that it made much more sense to just make it all white. The idea he hated being black, or that he bleached himself specifically to be white, is absurd and it flies counter to the evidence I just gave, and the fact he identified himself as black until the day he died.

His kids. For someone accused on maybe the most horrid crime on earth, he sure raised his kids well, huh? If anything the single most important and wrenching image post MJ death was Paris saying she missed her father. Suddenly, the cruel and horrible jokes people have been telling the last 20 years were harmful, this was someones father, someones son.

Lastly, child abuse. Its been a year and not one other person has come out saying MJ did anything to them. For someone who supposedly repeatedly abused children, his own children never spoke of it. MJ had not a single dirty video tape or DVD at his house, nothing with children. He didnt have wierd sites he visited on his computer. He didnt have dirty books and illegal books. For someone who was supposedly so prolific an abuser, that alone makes me pretty upset. The LAPD during both trials, and of course in the wake of his death combed Neverland and his Las Vegas house. They tore the house apart. Nothing was found. Not one damn thing. Ultimately, I didnt believe the rumors in 1993, and I dont know. MJ was killed by lots of things. One being an inept and criminal doctor, the other stress and probably a broken heart. He was a pariah.

I'm all for punishing abusers and criminals. But lets choose the targets wisely. Before we ostracize someone for being a pedophile, lets have evidence.

RIP MJ

musicismylife78

I think the sad thing of all of it is, someone is dead. Someone is dead ultimately, because of false rumors and lies, people willingly believe because they dont want to be different. I was and am a MJ fan. That certainly wasnt cool, not in 94 95. I have heard MJ jokes since 1993, about him being an abuser. Everyone tells them. And few people ever spoke up, at least in my view of it all. Its nice to fit in, and be part of a group and a crowd. Why mess it up, and say, "gee guys, I actually think MJ is innocent". People believed the innuendo. ANytime MJ was mentioned for the last 20 years theres been mention of the abuse stuff along with it. Gee if every time he is mentioned, the abuse stuff is also mentioned, well, you dont think, they could get linked by people. Oh MJ, and child abuse. Thats synonamous.

If he did abuse people, then he should have been punished, but if the facts are correct, and they are, boy, did we as a society and world ever make a HUGE mistake.

Gary Carter

time def didn't stand still and people went on with their lives like nothing happened. lets not make this out to be a national tragedy. should we make this a national holiday :roll:. but it's sad how the media built him up and then so quickly built him down but he caused it on his own by some rather odd things. i blame "his doctor" for his death. the amount of pills this man was on were ungodly and it was only matter of time before he died.


that's great your a fan and all but you making this out to be bigger then it is

Nothingman54

the wolf

I never thought he "abused" those kids. With that being said, he was one weird fucker. A great talent ? Of course, but fucking strange. He himself said he liked sharing a bed with a child on national t.v. That sure as hell did little to take that target off his back.

musicismylife78

the wolf wrote:

I never thought he "abused" those kids. With that being said, he was one weird fucker. A great talent ? Of course, but fucking strange. He himself said he liked sharing a bed with a child on national t.v. That sure as hell did little to take that target off his back.

yeah, but what thing is his life was "normal"? From a very early age he himself was abused by his dad. And MJ himself was famous from the time he was really young.

That kind of fame is hard to comprehend. Sure these days with pappazazzi and stuff people like paris hilton or Miley Cyrus would have some press chasing them around, and a few fans asking for autographs.

But with MJ, if he merely went to the movie theater or something their would be so many fans around he couldnt even walk the street. Thats unreal.

Plus, who creates art and is normal? Think back on your favorite artists in any medium. Are they all normal?

All my heroes are those who are unonventional, odd, strange, wierd, eccentric. It takes guts to walk your own path. Everyone else does the same thing, walks the same road. When someone does something different, or refuses to follow along, that can only be a good thing.

chadwick

musicismylife78 wrote:

the wolf wrote:

I never thought he "abused" those kids. With that being said, he was one weird fucker. A great talent ? Of course, but fucking strange. He himself said he liked sharing a bed with a child on national t.v. That sure as hell did little to take that target off his back.

yeah, but what thing is his life was "normal"? From a very early age he himself was abused by his dad. And MJ himself was famous from the time he was really young.

That kind of fame is hard to comprehend. Sure these days with pappazazzi and stuff people like paris hilton or Miley Cyrus would have some press chasing them around, and a few fans asking for autographs.

But with MJ, if he merely went to the movie theater or something their would be so many fans around he couldnt even walk the street. Thats unreal.

Plus, who creates art and is normal? Think back on your favorite artists in any medium. Are they all normal?

All my heroes are those who are unonventional, odd, strange, wierd, eccentric. It takes guts to walk your own path. Everyone else does the same thing, walks the same road. When someone does something different, or refuses to follow along, that can only be a good thing.

and that's fine, artists are odd characters.
but grown men do not share their bed with children.
that's all i know, that's all i have.

musicismylife78

metsfan wrote:

time def didn't stand still and people went on with their lives like nothing happened. lets not make this out to be a national tragedy. should we make this a national holiday :roll:. but it's sad how the media built him up and then so quickly built him down but he caused it on his own by some rather odd things. i blame "his doctor" for his death. the amount of pills this man was on were ungodly and it was only matter of time before he died.


that's great your a fan and all but you making this out to be bigger then it is

it was a big deal. As I said before, our parents knew his music when they grew up, when he was in the J5. Then we or our older siblings knew his solo stuff. His music was universal. Everyone on earth knew who he was. Thats why I mentioned Biggie and Pac. Great artists, horrific deaths, but their universality, their appeal, although wide was still sort of restricted. With MJ, he crossed all barriers, race, class, country, gender. Everyone knew his music, or was a fan. Everyone knew who he was. And the fact that he was a real artist. Not some fake celebrity. He had real, honest to god talent, in music, in film creation, in dancing.

The guys legacy is insane. The record sales of Thriller alone are enough to take ones breath away, especially in this current climate of records not selling at all.

I'd say it was a huge deal. Didnt his death single handedly shut down twitter or something?

Nothingman54

Gary Carter

musicismylife78 wrote:

it was a big deal. As I said before, our parents knew his music when they grew up, when he was in the J5. Then we or our older siblings knew his solo stuff. His music was universal. Everyone on earth knew who he was. Thats why I mentioned Biggie and Pac. Great artists, horrific deaths, but their universality, their appeal, although wide was still sort of restricted. With MJ, he crossed all barriers, race, class, country, gender. Everyone knew his music, or was a fan. Everyone knew who he was. And the fact that he was a real artist. Not some fake celebrity. He had real, honest to god talent, in music, in film creation, in dancing.

The guys legacy is insane. The record sales of Thriller alone are enough to take ones breath away, especially in this current climate of records not selling at all.

I'd say it was a huge deal. Didnt his death single handedly shut down twitter or something?

your making it out to be a national tragedy when its not at all. wow big deal it shut down some internet website :roll:. it is a big deal sure but def not a national tragedy. would you like to be this michael jackson day.

Gary Carter

chadwick wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

the wolf wrote:

I never thought he "abused" those kids. With that being said, he was one weird fucker. A great talent ? Of course, but fucking strange. He himself said he liked sharing a bed with a child on national t.v. That sure as hell did little to take that target off his back.

yeah, but what thing is his life was "normal"? From a very early age he himself was abused by his dad. And MJ himself was famous from the time he was really young.

That kind of fame is hard to comprehend. Sure these days with pappazazzi and stuff people like paris hilton or Miley Cyrus would have some press chasing them around, and a few fans asking for autographs.

But with MJ, if he merely went to the movie theater or something their would be so many fans around he couldnt even walk the street. Thats unreal.

Plus, who creates art and is normal? Think back on your favorite artists in any medium. Are they all normal?

All my heroes are those who are unonventional, odd, strange, wierd, eccentric. It takes guts to walk your own path. Everyone else does the same thing, walks the same road. When someone does something different, or refuses to follow along, that can only be a good thing.

and that's fine, artists are odd characters.
but grown men do not share their bed with children.
that's all i know, that's all i have.

musicismylife78

chadwick wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

the wolf wrote:

I never thought he "abused" those kids. With that being said, he was one weird fucker. A great talent ? Of course, but fucking strange. He himself said he liked sharing a bed with a child on national t.v. That sure as hell did little to take that target off his back.

yeah, but what thing is his life was "normal"? From a very early age he himself was abused by his dad. And MJ himself was famous from the time he was really young.

That kind of fame is hard to comprehend. Sure these days with pappazazzi and stuff people like paris hilton or Miley Cyrus would have some press chasing them around, and a few fans asking for autographs.

But with MJ, if he merely went to the movie theater or something their would be so many fans around he couldnt even walk the street. Thats unreal.

Plus, who creates art and is normal? Think back on your favorite artists in any medium. Are they all normal?

All my heroes are those who are unonventional, odd, strange, wierd, eccentric. It takes guts to walk your own path. Everyone else does the same thing, walks the same road. When someone does something different, or refuses to follow along, that can only be a good thing.

and that's fine, artists are odd characters.
but grown men do not share their bed with children.
that's all i know, that's all i have.

and thats fine as well. but sharing a bed with a child doesnt mean he did anything to them. macauley culkin, Wade Robson the dancer, Brett Barnes. Corey Feldman was upset that MJ seemed to move on from one pal to the next, but maintained nothing abusive or untoward occured.

For all the hoopla about the supposed and alleged victims in this case, their number is outweighed by the list of names I just gave you, who say they slept in the same bed with MJ and nothing happened.

The bed with children was a strawman. Its a never ending battle. Its what I said before. Michael jackson and bed with children said in the same sentence over and over again, repeated, over the years, thats gonna hook some people into thinking bad thoughts.

Wheres the evidence? Thats what i want to know. MJ was called a serial pedophile. Over many years. Yet, not one shred of evidence was found, in his house, on his computer, on his book shelf, in his video collection. No wierd disturbing pictures. Nothing. That to me suggests something, gee...HE WAS INNOCENT.

FenwayFaithful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgG1RO-7gLo

Paul Andrews

Death of a person - plain and simple. Every death leaves pain for those close to the person and unanswered questions of some kind. A celebrity death is no more tragic or disasterous than any other, in fact often less so.

Try telling the parents of the little three year old girl who died close to here two weeks ago when she ran behind a reversing car that there was anything particulary special or tragic about Michael Jackson's death.

No matter the circumstances of his life, Michael Jackson made choices - many of them poor. He surrounded himself with people who told him what he wanted to hear and they did what he wanted them to do. Were they irresponsible? Probably, were they negligent? Probably. But he had the power to change things but he chose not to.

He was talented, he was tortured, he may have had a terrible upbringing. But he was also rich, powerful and the master of his destiny. Compare his life to a homeless peson living on the streets of any city - the same homeless some call bums or are disgusted by, the same ones no-one stops to help and few care about. They all have a sad story too, but I don't hear anyone morning them a year after their death.

I find it hard to feel sorry for people like Jackson, Cobain, Anna-Nicole Smith, etc etc etc when they all had the power to change their circumstances but instead chose the life they ultimately lost.

musicismylife78

Sleeping in the same bed is irrelevant, in this particular case, because nothing criminal happened. If we are talking the neighborhood felon at the house on the corner, who has a history of abusing kids, thats one thing. their is no record. No history. Nothing.

Thats why the whole thing is so baffling to me. You first hear about the allegations and wonder, what happened. You hear the case, and the trial, and the facts come out, over the decade that follows. And the smoking gun doesnt exist. No evidence exists at all that MJ did a single thing to any of the kids. In fact as I said, you have 4 kids, now adults saying nothing happened.

At a certain point you gotta stop the whole jokester act and just kind of deal with facts, with the evidence as presented.

chadwick

musicismylife78 wrote:

and thats fine as well. but sharing a bed with a child doesnt mean he did anything to them. macauley culkin, Wade Robson the dancer, Brett Barnes. Corey Feldman was upset that MJ seemed to move on from one pal to the next, but maintained nothing abusive or untoward occured.

For all the hoopla about the supposed and alleged victims in this case, their number is outweighed by the list of names I just gave you, who say they slept in the same bed with MJ and nothing happened.

The bed with children was a strawman. Its a never ending battle. Its what I said before. Michael jackson and bed with children said in the same sentence over and over again, repeated, over the years, thats gonna hook some people into thinking bad thoughts.

Wheres the evidence? Thats what i want to know. MJ was called a serial pedophile. Over many years. Yet, not one shred of evidence was found, in his house, on his computer, on his book shelf, in his video collection. No wierd disturbing pictures. Nothing. That to me suggests something, gee...HE WAS INNOCENT.

a grown ass man doesn't share his bed with children.
his own children, that's different.
everybody has children that are scared of the dark, run into mom and dad's room to sleep.
that's acceptable.

mr. mike jackson sharing his bed with other peoples' children is alarming and disgusting in and of itself.
i liked his music fine when i was little.
as i approached the age of 3 i discovered real ass kickin tunes.

i am sorry your guy is twisted upstairs.

Gary Carter

FenwayFaithful wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgG1RO-7gLo

Gary Carter

musicismylife78 wrote:

Sleeping in the same bed is irrelevant, in this particular case, because nothing criminal happened.

so you would let your kids sleep with a 45 year old man as long as nothing criminal happened

chadwick

musicismylife78 wrote:

Sleeping in the same bed is irrelevant, in this particular case, because nothing criminal happened. If we are talking the neighborhood felon at the house on the corner, who has a history of abusing kids, thats one thing. their is no record. No history. Nothing.

Thats why the whole thing is so baffling to me. You first hear about the allegations and wonder, what happened. You hear the case, and the trial, and the facts come out, over the decade that follows. And the smoking gun doesnt exist. No evidence exists at all that MJ did a single thing to any of the kids. In fact as I said, you have 4 kids, now adults saying nothing happened.

At a certain point you gotta stop the whole jokester act and just kind of deal with facts, with the evidence as presented.

im curious and have a simple question for you.

are you willing to share your bed with children even after being accused of molestation?

musicismylife78

Paul Andrews wrote:

Death of a person - plain and simple. Every death leaves pain for those close to the person and unanswered questions of some kind. A celebrity death is no more tragic or disasterous than any other, in fact often less so.

Try telling the parents of the little three year old girl who died close to here two weeks ago when she ran behind a reversing car that there was anything particulary special or tragic about Michael Jackson's death.

No matter the circumstances of his life, Michael Jackson made choices - many of them poor. He surrounded himself with people who told him what he wanted to hear and they did what he wanted them to do. Were they irresponsible? Probably, were they negligent? Probably. But he had the power to change things but he chose not to.

He was talented, he was tortured, he may have had a terrible upbringing. But he was also rich, powerful and the master of his destiny. Compare his life to a homeless peson living on the streets of any city - the same homeless some call bums or are disgusted by, the same ones no-one stops to help and few care about. They all have a sad story too, but I don't hear anyone morning them a year after their death.

I find it hard to feel sorry for people like Jackson, Cobain, Anna-Nicole Smith, etc etc etc when they all had the power to change their circumstances but instead chose the life they ultimately lost.

I find this post extremely condescending and rather naive. I didnt follow Anna Nicole, or her career so I cant speak on her, but with MJ and Cobain, I was a fan of both and both deaths hit me hard.

The notion you have that when you are rich and famous that you can change everything and crawl out of your depression or your despair, is pretty outrageous frankly. Cobain especially. The guy was as tortured as any modern day artist. He was merely 27 when he died. I am 26 myself, I still havent figured out my life's plan, and being a millionaire would be great, but fame and cash aint gonna solve my problems. Kurt sold millions of records, and was thought of as a spokesman for his generation. Cant really top those accolades. But how does that help him deal with his anger and sadness? Help him deal with quitting heroin? End his stomach pain? Help him deal with the most traumatic event of his entire life, his parents divorce? Just because you have wealth and fame doesnt mean you are more equipped to deal with the world and your emotions than the rest of us!

Same with MJ.

Its a misguided notion you are promoting and its one alot of people swallow whole. The idea that fame and money can make you whole again, if you are lost or depressed or worse. If we could talk to MJ or Kurt I would bet theyd argue in many ways it wasnt worth it. That fame isnt worth the price.

The power to change things? Thats a pretty condescending thing to be suggesting. So if you are rich and powerful, you should be free of pain and misery? How is a 27 year old supposed to know how to deal with and cope with both his own demons and the pressure and burden of being the spokesman for millions of OTHER peoples demons!? I dont even have My OWN life figured out right now!

You dont find it more than a coincidence that some of the biggest celebs of our time, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Britney and the like all have made pretty spectacular mistakes, and none of them I would wager is happy. Theres a reason for that.

chadwick

FenwayFaithful wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgG1RO-7gLo

quite funny.