15 years old mexican killed...update

dimitrispearljam

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Bullshit, ignorant comment.

tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...

Were you there? Noone knows what happened. Maybe the kid did have a gun. Maybe no. Until the investigation is done it is all speculation.

yes..like the guns had people on ships,and Israelians killed them in cold blood..
merderer must go to trial,and jail..atleast that happens in countries have democracy.

cincybearcat

dimitrispearljam wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Bullshit, ignorant comment.

tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...

Will do. What's her phone number?

It's ignorant to paint an entire nation of law enforcement personnel based on 1 or even a few incidents. If it was done to another group people would be blasting your ignorant comment.

cincybearcat

dimitrispearljam wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...

Were you there? Noone knows what happened. Maybe the kid did have a gun. Maybe no. Until the investigation is done it is all speculation.

yes..like the guns had people on ships,and Israelians killed them in cold blood..
merderer must go to trial,and jail..atleast that happens in countries have democracy.

Why have a trial, you've already called him a murderer...based upon a grainy video. Could be the case, but you need to back off your over generalizations.

Cosmo

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

My assessment is this... yeah, rocks can hurt. I've been hit by a screaming liner or a bad hop on a baseball diamond on occasion and yeah... that hurt like hell. But, does it justify use of deadly force? Not in my book. You can drag a suspect out of range of someone's arm... and if you have a gun... a warning shot should make anyone with an ounce of common sense to scatter.

I stated this in a different forum. While in the military we were told that you only shoot to kill no warning shots. I believe the police are the same way. Now I am not saying the boarder agent should have or should have not fired, but there is too much that can happen with warning shots.

...
I agree with the military stance on this... because military people are trainned to go up against other military people. When facing an unarmed person... does that trainning still hold true? Such as scattering a mob... should the military just open up on unarmed civilians instead of firing warning shots? And doesn't the Navy fire shots across the bow of a ship in order to get it to comply with their requests?
Police officers are also trainned to shoot to kill when a weapon is pointed at them... or if someone comes at them with a knife... or someone in a car accelerates towards them. I guess you can put rocks in that category to justify use of deadly force... if you consider a thrown rock as a deadly weapon.
But, there were apparently several other options available to the border agent. I'm sure they encounter situations where deadly force is justified... I just don't see this specific incident as one.

Dirtie_Frank

redrock wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

While in the military we were told that you only shoot to kill no warning shots. .

Were you? American army? Hmmm... curious.

What is that supposed to mean?

dimitrispearljam

cincybearcat wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Bullshit, ignorant comment.

we shall see ...

as far as i know - no charges have been laid ...

Ok then, so we can use 1 or a few examples to broadly paint a huge nation?

I'll remember that. Looks like everyone in Greece, from police to citizens, likes to kill too.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... f_Teenager

the policeman is a merderer and he is in jail....we dont like Rambo in our streets...people react cos he use his power to kill an innocent kid...we dont cover,or support merderers...

dimitrispearljam

cincybearcat wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Bullshit, ignorant comment.

tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...

Will do. What's her phone number?

It's ignorant to paint an entire nation of law enforcement personnel based on 1 or even a few incidents. If it was done to another group people would be blasting your ignorant comment.

what nation?what are u talking about?my opinion is .no support merderes..cos law as it seems cover him to boom boom what ever he likes..

Dirtie_Frank

Cosmo wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

My assessment is this... yeah, rocks can hurt. I've been hit by a screaming liner or a bad hop on a baseball diamond on occasion and yeah... that hurt like hell. But, does it justify use of deadly force? Not in my book. You can drag a suspect out of range of someone's arm... and if you have a gun... a warning shot should make anyone with an ounce of common sense to scatter.

I stated this in a different forum. While in the military we were told that you only shoot to kill no warning shots. I believe the police are the same way. Now I am not saying the boarder agent should have or should have not fired, but there is too much that can happen with warning shots.

...
I agree with the military stance on this... because military people are trainned to go up against other military people. When facing an unarmed person... does that trainning still hold true? Such as scattering a mob... should the military just open up on unarmed civilians instead of firing warning shots? And doesn't the Navy fire shots across the bow of a ship in order to get it to comply with their requests?
Police officers are also trainned to shoot to kill when a weapon is pointed at them... or if someone comes at them with a knife... or someone in a car accelerates towards them. I guess you can put rocks in that category to justify use of deadly force... if you consider a thrown rock as a deadly weapon.
But, there were apparently several other options available to the border agent. I'm sure they encounter situations where deadly force is justified... I just don't see this specific incident as one.

It is not training, there are rules of engagement that determine when deadly force is to be used. Which maybe I should have said too. The military does not just shoot people when they are confronted. I agree though maybe he should not have shot the kid, but we do not know why he did or what the curcumstance are.

cincybearcat

dimitrispearljam wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

we shall see ...

as far as i know - no charges have been laid ...

Ok then, so we can use 1 or a few examples to broadly paint a huge nation?

I'll remember that. Looks like everyone in Greece, from police to citizens, likes to kill too.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... f_Teenager

the policeman is a merderer and he is in jail....we dont like Rambo in our streets...people react cos he use his power to kill an innocent kid...we dont cover,or support merderers...

You just riot and kill others huh?

See, you are missing my point. How long did it take for the guy to go to jail? Gotta let this play out and find out more facts.

And, to say that a country the size of the USA has laws allowing uniformed officers to kill children is pretty fucking ridiculously ignorant no matter how you look at it. I'm surprised you can't see that.

cincybearcat

dimitrispearljam wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...

Will do. What's her phone number?

It's ignorant to paint an entire nation of law enforcement personnel based on 1 or even a few incidents. If it was done to another group people would be blasting your ignorant comment.

what nation?what are u talking about?my opinion is .no support merderes..cos law as it seems cover him to boom boom what ever he likes..

What nation? Duh, you said the laws in the USA....read back in case you've already forgotten your ignorant comment.

And you have no understanding of the laws if you think he can boom boom whatever he likes.

Cosmo

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

It is not training, there are rules of engagement that determine when deadly force is to be used. Which maybe I should have said too. The military does not just shoot people when they are confronted. I agree though maybe he should not have shot the kid, but we do not know why he did or what the curcumstance are.

...
I agree... let the full investigation complete and let the courts system sort it out.
I'm just saying that the video seems to contradict statements from eyewitnesses (on both sides). From the information available to me... at this time... it looks like there were other options available.

Cosmo

If this goes to trial... where will the trial be held? In Texas or Mexico?

redrock

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

...there are rules of engagement that determine when deadly force is to be used. .

So there is not an overall shoot to kill policy as you stated (and which surprised me). The only case where deadly force can be used is then the 'attacker' has a weapon that can kill and is going to use it. Even then, 'shoot to kill' is not automatic if there is any other way to subdue the attacker.

Though it is common for the armed forces to take liberties with the rules of engagement.

dimitrispearljam

in my country when u shoot and someone killed from your bullets we have the word ,merderer..i dont know other word for that...
if u like a system,that support merderer,people cos have uniform can shoot anyone(when they arent in dangerous,or some civilian is),,enjoy it..im NOT..nothing personal,just diferent Philosophy of life..and yes philosophy is a Greek word..

cincybearcat

dimitrispearljam wrote:

in my country when u shoot and someone killed from your bullets we have the word ,merderer..i dont know other word for that...
if u like a system,that support merderer,people cos have uniform can shoot anyone(when they arent in dangerous,or some civilian is),,enjoy it..im NOT..nothing personal,just diferent Philosophy of life..and yes philosophy is a Greek word..

I wish someone could speak greeklish for me....

I'm saying that your belief that the USA system supports "merderer,people cos have uniform can shoot anyone(when they arent in dangerous,or some civilian is)" is wrong and ignorant.

Dirtie_Frank

redrock wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

...there are rules of engagement that determine when deadly force is to be used. .

So there is not an overall shoot to kill policy as you stated (and which surprised me). The only case where deadly force can be used is then the 'attacker' has a weapon that can kill and is going to use it. Even then, 'shoot to kill' is not automatic if there is any other way to subdue the attacker.

Though it is common for the armed forces to take liberties with the rules of engagement.

Maybe what I should have said is that if you shoot, you shoot to kill. There is no second guessing. There are rules of engagement that determine when you can shoot, but when you do you shoot to kill. Not sure which one is more clearer, sorry for my confussion.

mermelada_alucinogena

o.k calm down everyone...this is not US vs Mexico....this is an incident, a very sad one... if the boder line should or should not exist?..well this is not about that neither...the border line exists and the boy wasn't supoused to be in that side of the river but that is not a crime to be killed for and at the same time the agent should not fire to the mexican side he was very conscious of the borer line, coz he never step beyond it...i'm from the city where this happened, i dont hate the U.S people, i dont judge an entire country for the mistakes of one person...i mean PJ is from U.S and i love them...i just belive that the Border Agent killed a boy that was on the mexican side and needs to be punished

Cosmo

dimitrispearljam wrote:

in my country when u shoot and someone killed from your bullets we have the word ,merderer..i dont know other word for that...
if u like a system,that support merderer,people cos have uniform can shoot anyone(when they arent in dangerous,or some civilian is),,enjoy it..im NOT..nothing personal,just diferent Philosophy of life..and yes philosophy is a Greek word..

...
Well... it depends.
If you kill someone that is trying to kill you...Of if you kill someone that is trying to kill someone else, it is not considered murder.
Also, our police officers cannot shoot anyone they want. In most large cities, as soon as an officer discharges his weapon, he must turn over his weapon to a supervisor and is placed on administrative leave while the shooting is investigated. In Los Angeles, the investigation is conducted by an independent board that includes both, police and civilians.
I know a few cops... and although some of them have had to draw their weapons on suspects... not one that I know of has actually fire his weapon other than in trainning. Most officers go a complete career, without firing a shot.

Cosmo

mermelada_alucinogena wrote:

o.k calm down everyone...this is not US vs Mexico....this is an incident, a very sad one... if the boder line should or should not exist?..well this is not about that neither...the border line exists and the boy wasn't supoused to be in that side of the river but that is not a crime to be killed for and at the same time the agent should not fire to the mexican side he was very conscious of the borer line, coz he never step beyond it...i'm from the city where this happened, i dont hate the U.S people, i dont judge an entire country for the mistakes of one person...i mean PJ is from U.S and i love them...i just belive that the Border Agent killed a boy that was on the mexican side and needs to be punished

...
That's my view... the kids was doing something he shouldn't have been doing... but, it was not an offense that should have cost him his life. It would be like shooting someone for shoplifting.
And if the investigation leads to an arrest... where should the trial be held... in the U.S. or Mexico?

dimitrispearljam

cincybearcat wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

[
tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...

Will do. What's her phone number?
.

i miss this comment,i just read it.,now im sure i waste my time,no respect for human life and a mother 's pain lost her child..im out..