I may have been a LITTLE out of line...maybe.
but why don't some of you go back in this forum and re-read some of the posts put up in the other race and border related issues (topics). BTW my statement was my opinion and reading on other threads from some the members on here brought me to that asumption, please don't ask me to give names or topics look for your self.
as I have stated before the loss of a life so young is very sad but don't sta pointing fingers unless you where there and know what really happened.
Godfather.
i know people can be very passionate about their beliefs. i know that. i just don't see anyone advocating and supporting murder Godfather.
unless of course there's a topic relating to the death penalty. i see it there. from memory, you are supporter of it. i could be wrong though.
I hate defending unsung on any issue regarding immigration, but you can't say that the border crossed this kid... he's 15, the border has been there his whole life.
It is an imaginary line drawn by people in power, but we have those lines everyday that we live by... I know where my property ends and where my neighbor's starts
Yes, but did your neighbor's property used to be your (or your family's) property until your neighbors (or their family) came in and took it by force?
I hate defending unsung on any issue regarding immigration, but you can't say that the border crossed this kid... he's 15, the border has been there his whole life.
It is an imaginary line drawn by people in power, but we have those lines everyday that we live by... I know where my property ends and where my neighbor's starts, I can't just cross that line and do whatever I want there. I know down the road from me where New York ends and Vermont begins, and some different rules apply there.
would your neighbour kill you for walking on his lawn?
yeah - the border has been there all his life ... ultimately, the issue here is what warrants the loss of the kid's life? ...
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
I may have been a LITTLE out of line...maybe.
but why don't some of you go back in this forum and re-read some of the posts put up in the other race and border related issues (topics). BTW my statement was my opinion and reading on other threads from some the members on here brought me to that asumption, please don't ask me to give names or topics look for your self.
as I have stated before the loss of a life so young is very sad but don't sta pointing fingers unless you where there and know what really happened.
Godfather.
seems like you are pointing fingers towards the 15 year old kid
and you didn't answer my previous question
what's the matter, don't wanna show your true colors
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
how can a kids life not be worth more than a border?
sweet child in time, you'll see the line
the line that's drawn between the good and the bad
see the blind man, he's shooting at the world
the bullets flying, ooh there taking toll
If you've been bad - ohhh lord I bet you have
and you've not been hit, you've not been hit by flying lead
you'd better close your eyes
you better bow your head
wait for the ricochet
Slightly different line, but this conversation reminds me of this song:
I hate defending unsung on any issue regarding immigration, but you can't say that the border crossed this kid... he's 15, the border has been there his whole life.
It is an imaginary line drawn by people in power, but we have those lines everyday that we live by... I know where my property ends and where my neighbor's starts
Yes, but did your neighbor's property used to be your (or your family's) property until your neighbors (or their family) came in and took it by force?
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
i found it interesting that he would shoot someone on the mexican side ... and then basically leave him there to die ... i mean ... maybe the kid could have been saved if someone got to him sooner ...
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
Better question: Would you shoot someone that was just on your lawn when they have been helping millions of their friends sneak into your lawn over years and years and years...
Of course you shouldn't...but I can see how some might lose their grip and do something terrible.
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
Better question: Would you shoot someone that was just on your lawn when they have been helping millions of their friends sneak into your lawn over years and years and years...
Of course you shouldn't...but I can see how some might lose their grip and do something terrible.
even better question: would you shoot someone on your land, a land which was stolen by your ancestors who then murdered every innocent human who was living there prior to the genocide?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
Better question: Would you shoot someone that was just on your lawn when they have been helping millions of their friends sneak into your lawn over years and years and years...
Of course you shouldn't...but I can see how some might lose their grip and do something terrible.
even better question: would you shoot someone on your land, a land which was stolen by your ancestors who then murdered every innocent human who was living there prior to the genocide?
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
[edit] Conquest of California
Main article: Conquest of California
In 1846 at the outset of the Mexican-American War (1846–1848), American military forces invaded and seized California, after several small-scale battles.
U.S. Navy Commodore John Drake Sloat, on hearing of imminent war and the Bear Flag Revolt in Sonoma (which came under the control of U.S. Army captian John C. Frémont, ordered his naval forces to occupy Yerba Buena (present San Francisco) on July 7 and raise the American flag. On July 15, Sloat transferred his command to Commodore Robert F. Stockton, a much more aggressive leader. Commodore Stockton put Frémont's forces under his orders. On July 19th, Frémont's "California Battalion" swelled to about 160 additional men from newly arrived settlers near Sacramento, and he entered Monterey in a joint operation with some of Stockton's sailors and marines. The official word had been received -- the Mexican-American War was on. The American forces easily took over the north of California; within days they controlled San Francisco, Sonoma, and Sutter's Fort in Sacramento.
In the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 the U.S. paid Mexico $10 million for California and New Mexico. Also in 1848 gold was discovered at Sutter's Mill near Sacramento, touching off the California Gold Rush.
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
Better question: Would you shoot someone that was just on your lawn when they have been helping millions of their friends sneak into your lawn over years and years and years...
Of course you shouldn't...but I can see how some might lose their grip and do something terrible.
even better question: would you shoot someone on your land, a land which was stolen by your ancestors who then murdered every innocent human who was living there prior to the genocide?
So do you think the frustration level of the officer due to this being his daily life and the frustration of the 15 year old kid due to an even from over 100 years ago is probably the same?
So do you think the frustration level of the officer due to this being his daily life and the frustration of the 15 year old kid due to an even from over 100 years ago is probably the same?
there have been many posts citing the need to wait for more evidence and such ... let's not start speculating what this agent's frustration level is or isn't ...
all we know is that a supposedly highly trained border patrol agent shot an unarmed boy on mexican territory from american territory ... that is all we know for certain ...
So do you think the frustration level of the officer due to this being his daily life and the frustration of the 15 year old kid due to an even from over 100 years ago is probably the same?
there have been many posts citing the need to wait for more evidence and such ... let's not start speculating what this agent's frustration level is or isn't ...
all we know is that a supposedly highly trained border patrol agent shot an unarmed boy on mexican territory from american territory ... that is all we know for certain ...
Calm down there. What fuckin laws we have here? We have laws that allow for an investigation and trial before throwing someone in jail. Let's see what happens.
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
Godfather.[/quote]
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
Godfather.
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?[/quote]
wake up sunshine this is 2010 that was 1848 I don't care to go backwards but if you wanna..go right ahead but leave me out of it,I sure you'll find at least one person to stroll down memory lane with you, and how dose all your rant relate to the OP ? if's and but's don't count.
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
Godfather.
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?[/quote]
and "WE" you and I have NOT stole anything !,I don't know about you but I was born here and diden't take anybodys land or any of that crap you keep whinning about so please save you crap for someone else I aint buying it !
wtf!!!why he shoots?he was in danger?what fuckin laws u have there?????i dont believe it..if he was in Greece,he will be in jail for murder 1st deggree and will give him 30 years to life in jail..
Calm down there. What fuckin laws we have here? We have laws that allow for an investigation and trial before throwing someone in jail. Let's see what happens.
no,u have laws that allowed anyone with a gun and uniform kill kids...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
Godfather.
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?
wake up sunshine this is 2010 that was 1848 I don't care to go backwards but if you wanna..go right ahead but leave me out of it,I sure you'll find at least one person to stroll down memory lane with you, and how dose all your rant relate to the OP ? if's and but's don't count.
Godfather.[/quote]
you brought up 1848
omitted the part of how we forceably took their land and said we bought it
how does my rant relate to the op?
he was killed because of the border
are you ok in the head?
and you seem to like history
except when it dosen't line up with your "america the great" rhetoric
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Let me preface by saying that I know video alone doesn't explain the entire event (i.e Rodney King beating). Nor does eyewitness account (alone). But, this video captured the entire event, unlike the Rodney King video. The images seem to contradict the eyewitness reports that have been published.
...
From what I can gather after seeing the video and reading the available information in print media:
The 15 year old was not just playing by the river as his mother stated. I have no idea what any intent was.
It wasn't a mob, hurling a storm of rock on the border agent as some of the initial reports stated. If rocks were thrown... it was from a distance (using the vehicles and human figure as scale).
The border agent fired 3 shots.
Mexican authorities were not pointing their weapons at the border agents, as reported. They did secure the crime scene and ushered the bystanders on the Mexico side of the border away from the railing.
...
My assessment is this... yeah, rocks can hurt. I've been hit by a screaming liner or a bad hop on a baseball diamond on occasion and yeah... that hurt like hell. But, does it justify use of deadly force? Not in my book. You can drag a suspect out of range of someone's arm... and if you have a gun... a warning shot should make anyone with an ounce of common sense to scatter.
...
There are still details for investigators to sort through.. but from my point of view... at this time... based on the information available to me... the border agent acted in a wreckless manner and could have prevented this situation from ending in tragedy.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
Godfather.
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?
wake up sunshine this is 2010 that was 1848 I don't care to go backwards but if you wanna..go right ahead but leave me out of it,I sure you'll find at least one person to stroll down memory lane with you, and how dose all your rant relate to the OP ? if's and but's don't count.
Godfather.
you brought up 1848
omitted the part of how we forceably took their land and said we bought it
how does my rant relate to the op?
he was killed because of the border
are you ok in the head?
and you seem to like history
except when it dosen't line up with your "america the great" rhetoric[/quote]
wtf!!!why he shoots?he was in danger?what fuckin laws u have there?????i dont believe it..if he was in Greece,he will be in jail for murder 1st deggree and will give him 30 years to life in jail..
Calm down there. What fuckin laws we have here? We have laws that allow for an investigation and trial before throwing someone in jail. Let's see what happens.
no,u have laws that allowed anyone with a gun and uniform kill kids...
tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
My assessment is this... yeah, rocks can hurt. I've been hit by a screaming liner or a bad hop on a baseball diamond on occasion and yeah... that hurt like hell. But, does it justify use of deadly force? Not in my book. You can drag a suspect out of range of someone's arm... and if you have a gun... a warning shot should make anyone with an ounce of common sense to scatter.
I stated this in a different forum. While in the military we were told that you only shoot to kill no warning shots. I believe the police are the same way. Now I am not saying the boarder agent should have or should have not fired, but there is too much that can happen with warning shots.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
tell that to the mother of the kid was killed in cold blood...
Were you there? Noone knows what happened. Maybe the kid did have a gun. Maybe no. Until the investigation is done it is all speculation.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Comments
unless of course there's a topic relating to the death penalty. i see it there. from memory, you are supporter of it. i could be wrong though.
Yes, but did your neighbor's property used to be your (or your family's) property until your neighbors (or their family) came in and took it by force?
Better question: Would they kill you for walking on their lawn after you were already back on your own property? What if it was illegal for them to shoot you on your own property?
seems like you are pointing fingers towards the 15 year old kid
and you didn't answer my previous question
what's the matter, don't wanna show your true colors
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
PLEASE.... get a grip...hell no.
Godfather.
Slightly different line, but this conversation reminds me of this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CZjW76VTv4
Godfather.
i found it interesting that he would shoot someone on the mexican side ... and then basically leave him there to die ... i mean ... maybe the kid could have been saved if someone got to him sooner ...
:(
Better question: Would you shoot someone that was just on your lawn when they have been helping millions of their friends sneak into your lawn over years and years and years...
Of course you shouldn't...but I can see how some might lose their grip and do something terrible.
even better question: would you shoot someone on your land, a land which was stolen by your ancestors who then murdered every innocent human who was living there prior to the genocide?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
What the heck was he doing there...?
do some more california history I think we bought ca from mexico.
Godfather.
Main article: Conquest of California
In 1846 at the outset of the Mexican-American War (1846–1848), American military forces invaded and seized California, after several small-scale battles.
U.S. Navy Commodore John Drake Sloat, on hearing of imminent war and the Bear Flag Revolt in Sonoma (which came under the control of U.S. Army captian John C. Frémont, ordered his naval forces to occupy Yerba Buena (present San Francisco) on July 7 and raise the American flag. On July 15, Sloat transferred his command to Commodore Robert F. Stockton, a much more aggressive leader. Commodore Stockton put Frémont's forces under his orders. On July 19th, Frémont's "California Battalion" swelled to about 160 additional men from newly arrived settlers near Sacramento, and he entered Monterey in a joint operation with some of Stockton's sailors and marines. The official word had been received -- the Mexican-American War was on. The American forces easily took over the north of California; within days they controlled San Francisco, Sonoma, and Sutter's Fort in Sacramento.
In the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 the U.S. paid Mexico $10 million for California and New Mexico. Also in 1848 gold was discovered at Sutter's Mill near Sacramento, touching off the California Gold Rush.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_California
Godfather.
So do you think the frustration level of the officer due to this being his daily life and the frustration of the 15 year old kid due to an even from over 100 years ago is probably the same?
there have been many posts citing the need to wait for more evidence and such ... let's not start speculating what this agent's frustration level is or isn't ...
all we know is that a supposedly highly trained border patrol agent shot an unarmed boy on mexican territory from american territory ... that is all we know for certain ...
hence this...
Godfather.[/quote]
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?[/quote]
wake up sunshine this is 2010 that was 1848 I don't care to go backwards but if you wanna..go right ahead but leave me out of it,I sure you'll find at least one person to stroll down memory lane with you, and how dose all your rant relate to the OP ? if's and but's don't count.
Godfather.
bought ?
after we stole texas from them, we stole california
because we then gave them some cash, it make the theft ok?
if i came to san diego, took your house and land, kicked you out, and gave you some chump change, you'd be cool with that too?[/quote]
and "WE" you and I have NOT stole anything !,I don't know about you but I was born here and diden't take anybodys land or any of that crap you keep whinning about so please save you crap for someone else I aint buying it !
Godfather.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
wake up sunshine this is 2010 that was 1848 I don't care to go backwards but if you wanna..go right ahead but leave me out of it,I sure you'll find at least one person to stroll down memory lane with you, and how dose all your rant relate to the OP ? if's and but's don't count.
Godfather.[/quote]
you brought up 1848
omitted the part of how we forceably took their land and said we bought it
how does my rant relate to the op?
he was killed because of the border
are you ok in the head?
and you seem to like history
except when it dosen't line up with your "america the great" rhetoric
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
...
From what I can gather after seeing the video and reading the available information in print media:
The 15 year old was not just playing by the river as his mother stated. I have no idea what any intent was.
It wasn't a mob, hurling a storm of rock on the border agent as some of the initial reports stated. If rocks were thrown... it was from a distance (using the vehicles and human figure as scale).
The border agent fired 3 shots.
Mexican authorities were not pointing their weapons at the border agents, as reported. They did secure the crime scene and ushered the bystanders on the Mexico side of the border away from the railing.
...
My assessment is this... yeah, rocks can hurt. I've been hit by a screaming liner or a bad hop on a baseball diamond on occasion and yeah... that hurt like hell. But, does it justify use of deadly force? Not in my book. You can drag a suspect out of range of someone's arm... and if you have a gun... a warning shot should make anyone with an ounce of common sense to scatter.
...
There are still details for investigators to sort through.. but from my point of view... at this time... based on the information available to me... the border agent acted in a wreckless manner and could have prevented this situation from ending in tragedy.
Hail, Hail!!!
you brought up 1848
omitted the part of how we forceably took their land and said we bought it
how does my rant relate to the op?
he was killed because of the border
are you ok in the head?
and you seem to like history
except when it dosen't line up with your "america the great" rhetoric[/quote]
Godfather.
Bullshit, ignorant comment.
we shall see ...
as far as i know - no charges have been laid ...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I stated this in a different forum. While in the military we were told that you only shoot to kill no warning shots. I believe the police are the same way. Now I am not saying the boarder agent should have or should have not fired, but there is too much that can happen with warning shots.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Were you there? Noone knows what happened. Maybe the kid did have a gun. Maybe no. Until the investigation is done it is all speculation.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Were you? American army? Hmmm... curious.
Ok then, so we can use 1 or a few examples to broadly paint a huge nation?
I'll remember that. Looks like everyone in Greece, from police to citizens, likes to kill too.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... f_Teenager