i have to chime in and say - these cds sound like utter shit
and we payed money for them, they weren't a gift from PJ, so we are allowed to bitch
they sound like audience bootlegs, or worse
people rip on the 2008 boots, but compare Not For You from the Hartford 2008 boot with the version from MSG 2 2010, quite a change for the worse...in 08 you could actually hear stones solo...and thats just one example
whatever they did to make the 2000 boots sound the way they did, they need to do it again
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
"I'll tell you what: If all I had was Pearl Jam, and I didn't have another band in the world, I would not be worried. Because in there is the essence of making great music. You don't have to use it all at once, but it's there." - Neil Young
They sound better than audience boots and we can relive the shows and for that they are perfect and we have no right to complain about it
Versus the ones who say:
We paid for them, they are a product (a very nice one) but they are making them sounding worse for no logic reason and if they once sounded (alot) better (2000/2003 and even 2006) they could and should make them that way again.
I say:
It is great that they offer bootlegs - really fucking great. But when you pay for them they are a product and you have the right to complain. So the idea is really superduper by why not start putting a little more effort in the mixing when they cost 17 dollars... and have sounded better... and also... offer them pressed and not on CD-R
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Before I got my boots, (Newark, Buffalo, MSG1 and 2), I thought people were just bitching needlessly. But I have to agree, these sound pretty bad. These boots do sound more like audience recordings. I agree with the Hoff when he said Eds vocals are echoey. Its like there is too much reverb or something. He also sounds like he is behind the mix as well.
Another thing regarding these boots, b/c they're cdr, they have a real tough time playing in my car cd player. The 2008 series were also cdr but they work fine, its these particular cdr's that don't work well. Seeing how this is not a problem for everyone, I guess it doesn't really matter but it would be nice to get silver back cds if I'm paying $17 for them.
Also people keep saying you have to be listening to them on a proper sound system. Well I have a pair of KRK studio monitors and they still sound the same. Not good.
The question I want to ask is this: Does the band think these boots sound ok? I would really like to know, b/c if they do, then maybe we are all wrong. Do they even listen to them before they are sent out? I know, I know, they are wayyyyyy to busy, and have a million things to do with the band and family and everything else but still I wonder if theyve actually listened to them?
BUT I STILL LOVE THE BAND AND EVERYTHING THE TENCLUB DOES. I AM TRULY GRATEFUL FOR EVERYTHING THIS BAND HAS GIVEN ME.
Does anybody have a sample of these poor quality '10 boots? The Philly boots aren't too bad. Their method in 2003 worked great....buy show...mp3's within 48 hours at low quality...discs a few days after that and silver pressed. I wonder why they went away from something that worked well. I guess that method was too expensive.
Does anybody have a sample of these poor quality '10 boots? The Philly boots aren't too bad. Their method in 2003 worked great....buy show...mp3's within 48 hours at low quality...discs a few days after that and silver pressed. I wonder why they went away from something that worked well. I guess that method was too expensive.
The Philly 2009 boots are just that. They're from 2009. They sound good and should as they had six months to get them right. Plus the fact that it was a special event makes it all the more important to get them sounding close perfect, if not. The rest of the 2009 shows were available within two weeks or so after the show was over, but the Philly shows were held for whatever reason. I guess the reason I stated above. I'm amost wondering whether something went wrong somewhere and that's why they weren't released sooner. Like maybe they were completed and someone didn't like how they came out so they had to start over, or maybe there was a glitch with the audio. Just a thought.
Anyways, I just received my 2009 box set today and was curious how 2009 sounded compared to the poor excuse for bootlegs that we've gotten lately. I popped in Melbourne from 11.20.2009 and was somewhat happily surprised. Obviously much better than what we've gotten lately. Ed's vocals were much more upfront as were the rest of the instruments unlike 2010 were everything sounds echoey, tinney, and distant. Now I haven't listened to the rest of the shows as I just got the box today, but plan on it just about everyday til I listen to them all. So my question is, if all of the 2009 bootlegs sound as good or at least close to Melbourne, than what happened from 2009 to now???? Is someone different mixing these than last year? How can these bootlegs change so much in a short period of time? It's fustrating! Ugghhh!
And Lastly, hopethatuchoke, I just want to agree with u 100% as I also agree that the 2003 distribution of Pearl Jam bootlegs was the best! Order only through 10 Club, get decent mp3's of the show u want, which were up within 24 hours, in the meantime until the physical cd and fantastic cases come with silver cd's instead of common cdr's in the mail. The only problem might be that Brett Eliason was on the tour with the band in 2003 recording the show out in a truck just off stage, and I don't think they do this anymore with the truck. But I could be wrong. I think this is why it takes longer to get our shows these days as they don't do this kind of thing anymore. Here's hoping for better mixing for the European shows. Later
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
Or maybe they will say fuck 'em, they don't appreciate what we do, so no more bootleg program. And also they are definately better than audience recordings.
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave up reading." - Henry Youngman
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
Or maybe they will say fuck 'em, they don't appreciate what we do, so no more bootleg program. And also they are definately better than audience recordings.
WPB 08 audience recording sounds better than the official bootleg. Arguably, so does bonnaroo. I'm sure thy aren't the only ones.
I hate to say it, but I think they've prbably lost my business on bootlegs this tour. I was planning on buying 6 or 7 CDS but after all the negative reviews it's hard to justify it. If people are comparing these to 2008 style, there's no way I'm shelling money for these..Sorry but the quality of the 08 boots was horrible. The mixing was waaay off. I loved the 09 boots so much though so I don't know what happened?
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
People should email Kufala about this. They seem to have great customer service so will at least look into it.
And still - "at least there better then audience recordings" is not an argument when they sounded way better in 2003.
Kufala has nothing to do with the mixing and recording. All they do is burn the damn cd-rs from the recordings given to them already mixed and put the cds in the packaging and mail it.
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
Or maybe they will say fuck 'em, they don't appreciate what we do, so no more bootleg program. And also they are definately better than audience recordings.
thats my concern too
you cant stop people voicing their opinions on a product they have shelled out for and are not happy with i guess.
I think if you emailed Kufala they would address it with the mixing source,
To me they sound just fine.....but with a live bootleg I dont expect a perfect recording.....Im one of those just happy to get them.......
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
Or maybe they will say fuck 'em, they don't appreciate what we do, so no more bootleg program. And also they are definately better than audience recordings.
i hear that
sack up people enjoy them
and to think some one might say these sound worse than an audience recording just is rediculous.
come on, really ....... better than a audience recording?
that's silly
this is a live recording.
maybe this goes beyond post production issues.
enjoy it for what it is.
"The only thing I ever saw that came close to Objective Journalism was a closed-circuit TV setup that watched shoplifters in the General Store at Woody Creek, Colorado." hst
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
Or maybe they will say fuck 'em, they don't appreciate what we do, so no more bootleg program. And also they are definately better than audience recordings.
i hear that
sack up people enjoy them
and to think some one might say these sound worse than an audience recording just is rediculous.
come on, really ....... better than a audience recording?
that's silly
this is a live recording.
maybe this goes beyond post production issues.
enjoy it for what it is.
I enjoy it for what it is: a souvenir from the shows I attended. But I'm done collecting other shows or caring how this Even Flow sounds compared to that Even Flow because these boots really do sound bad. See in 2000, Pearl Jam released 72 LIVE ALBUMS and called them 'bootlegs' because it sounded cool. Now...they're literally just releasing bootlegs.
And don't get me started on the burn-to-order CDR crap. They should totally scrap that idea and put whatever money is saved toward the actual recording, mixing, and mastering of the shows. The 2000 series was awesome. In 2003, you had to put a sticker of the setlist onto the package but at least they were still professionally manufactured CDs. But it numbs my mind that people would pay for these CDRs. You could grab them on mp3@256kbps for $9.99 and then do whatever you want with them. I think that paying for a piece of cardboard and a burnt CD is idiotic....especially when the sound quality is so poor.
I enjoy it for what it is: a souvenir from the shows I attended. But I'm done collecting other shows or caring how this Even Flow sounds compared to that Even Flow because these boots really do sound bad. See in 2000, Pearl Jam released 72 LIVE ALBUMS and called them 'bootlegs' because it sounded cool. Now...they're literally just releasing bootlegs.
agreed. i usually pick up the shows i attend as kind of a souvenir. but when push comes to shove... if i am reaching for a boot it is going to be from the 2000 series.
In 2005 people said they wanted flac. In 2006 people said they wanted physical cds. In 2008 the band made it all possible in 3 formats. MP3, Flac and physical cds. There is no way the band could really afford to do what they did in 2000, 2003. It was not cost effective at all. They found a company (Kufala) who could provide this in the most superior quality possible with the best quality service while keeping in line with the band's eco interests and being cost effective. With all that said, the band has taken all our wants, needs and requests to heart and provided it to us. The quality may differ from one tour to the next but regardless of our personal opinions, they are a far cry from a audience bootleg any day and a hell of a lot cheaper than it was years back to buy them as illegal boots. They provide excellent recordings to us as souvenirs of the shows we were at and missed.
As fans and consumers, we have a right and an invested interest to provide our views, likes, dislikes of these products but we must also realize that Pearl Jam has done more than it's fair share to meet us half way. They can't please all of us all the time but they can please most of us most of the time when it comes to the things we want. I am not aware of any band who goes as far as they do for there fans continuously as they do and have over the years. We as fans are spoiled rotten to the core and that's okay. It means the band is doing something right. They are not perfect and have tried different things to find success for there fans and will continue to do so and that's important to them and provides better opportunities to us as fans.
So, if people think something is idiotic then that's there right but when a majority asks for something and gets it then that's not idiotic. It's a band with a business model who tries within there means to reasonably make it happen. If we as fans and consumers continue to provide such feedback that is constructive and respectful then the band will do as they always have and try to improve what they can based on our feedback. Just keep that in mind my fellow fans and freaks.
I remember the day where you'd go to a record shop, there would be some cool random PJ boot in the case - with a pricetag of between $35-$50...roll the dice, pick it up - just to have it sound like it was recorded thru an answering machine during an earthquake...
In 2005 people said they wanted flac. In 2006 people said they wanted physical cds. In 2008 the band made it all possible in 3 formats. MP3, Flac and physical cds. There is no way the band could really afford to do what they did in 2000, 2003. It was not cost effective at all. They found a company (Kufala) who could provide this in the most superior quality possible with the best quality service while keeping in line with the band's eco interests and being cost effective. With all that said, the band has taken all our wants, needs and requests to heart and provided it to us. The quality may differ from one tour to the next but regardless of our personal opinions, they are a far cry from a audience bootleg any day and a hell of a lot cheaper than it was years back to buy them as illegal boots. They provide excellent recordings to us as souvenirs of the shows we were at and missed.
As fans and consumers, we have a right and an invested interest to provide our views, likes, dislikes of these products but we must also realize that Pearl Jam has done more than it's fair share to meet us half way. They can't please all of us all the time but they can please most of us most of the time when it comes to the things we want. I am not aware of any band who goes as far as they do for there fans continuously as they do and have over the years. We as fans are spoiled rotten to the core and that's okay. It means the band is doing something right. They are not perfect and have tried different things to find success for there fans and will continue to do so and that's important to them and provides better opportunities to us as fans.
So, if people think something is idiotic then that's there right but when a majority asks for something and gets it then that's not idiotic. It's a band with a business model who tries within there means to reasonably make it happen. If we as fans and consumers continue to provide such feedback that is constructive and respectful then the band will do as they always have and try to improve what they can based on our feedback. Just keep that in mind my fellow fans and freaks.
You make an excellent point.
" Things were different then, all is different now "
Seattle 09-16-96, Vancouver 07-19-98, Seattle 11-05-00, Seattle 12-09-02, Vancouver 05-30-03, Vancouver 09-02-05, Gorge 07-23-06, Seattle 09-21-09, Seattle 09-22-09, Vancouver 09-25-09
In 2005 people said they wanted flac. In 2006 people said they wanted physical cds. In 2008 the band made it all possible in 3 formats. MP3, Flac and physical cds. There is no way the band could really afford to do what they did in 2000, 2003. It was not cost effective at all. They found a company (Kufala) who could provide this in the most superior quality possible with the best quality service while keeping in line with the band's eco interests and being cost effective. With all that said, the band has taken all our wants, needs and requests to heart and provided it to us. The quality may differ from one tour to the next but regardless of our personal opinions, they are a far cry from a audience bootleg any day and a hell of a lot cheaper than it was years back to buy them as illegal boots. They provide excellent recordings to us as souvenirs of the shows we were at and missed.
As fans and consumers, we have a right and an invested interest to provide our views, likes, dislikes of these products but we must also realize that Pearl Jam has done more than it's fair share to meet us half way. They can't please all of us all the time but they can please most of us most of the time when it comes to the things we want. I am not aware of any band who goes as far as they do for there fans continuously as they do and have over the years. We as fans are spoiled rotten to the core and that's okay. It means the band is doing something right. They are not perfect and have tried different things to find success for there fans and will continue to do so and that's important to them and provides better opportunities to us as fans.
So, if people think something is idiotic then that's there right but when a majority asks for something and gets it then that's not idiotic. It's a band with a business model who tries within there means to reasonably make it happen. If we as fans and consumers continue to provide such feedback that is constructive and respectful then the band will do as they always have and try to improve what they can based on our feedback. Just keep that in mind my fellow fans and freaks.
Exactly what he said!!
I am the artist formally known as "Cameron4President"....
1998: Va Beach VA
2000: Va Beach VA, Columbia MD
2003: Raleigh NC, Bristow VA
2008: Washington DC
2009: Philly 3
2010: Bristow VA
2013: Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Charlotte NC
2014: Cincinnati, OH
2016: Hampton, VA, Raleigh, NC
having listened to them again, they aren't as bad as i made them sound in my last post, but
a) they are definitely worse than past years, i don't get all the hate for 2008, they are much better than these
b) Stone is way too low in the mix, which to me is a huge offense (its why the ACL broadcast sucked IMO)
c) some songs are worse than others in terms of the 'recorded in a garbage can" kinda sound
"I'll tell you what: If all I had was Pearl Jam, and I didn't have another band in the world, I would not be worried. Because in there is the essence of making great music. You don't have to use it all at once, but it's there." - Neil Young
I agree with much of what has been said here. I'm grateful for the opportunity to hear a fairly decent quality recording of these shows, but forking out the cash to do so each time and getting a sub-par product in return... that does suck, and I don't think the band would prefer it that way either.
Can anyone tell me which 2010 ones are worth buying?
So far have Columbus, Cleveland and MSG2, and Columbus is the best sounding by far.
1995: Melbourne 1
1998: Melbourne 1, 2, 3
2003: Sydney 1, 2, 3, Melbourne 1, 2, 3
2006: Sydney 1, 2, Melbourne 1, 2, 3, Sydney 3, Newcastle, Adelaide 1, 2, Perth
2009: LA 1, 2, Melbourne, Sydney
2014: Gold Coast, Melbourne, Sydney
I agree with much of what has been said here. I'm grateful for the opportunity to hear a fairly decent quality recording of these shows, but forking out the cash to do so each time and getting a sub-par product in return... that does suck, and I don't think the band would prefer it that way either.
Can anyone tell me which 2010 ones are worth buying?
So far have Columbus, Cleveland and MSG2, and Columbus is the best sounding by far.
I've got all the shows I've been to these last 12 months: 2010 - MSG2 and Newark; 2009 - LA3, LA4, Perth, Melbourne & Sydney and they sound fine to me. I have the 2003 Penn State cds, Perth 2003, 2006 and others and I think the boots from this year shit all over it in sound quality and mix. As I've previously posted, given the speed these come out and the fact they were never meant to be as good as LOTL, Philly or the DVDs I'm pretty damn happy with them and the fact that PJ makes the effort to provide these to their fans.
The argument that 'we're paying for these - they should be better' is hardly valid given the circumstances. The sound is awesome compared to the best audience bootlegs I've heard. We're paying for a BOOTLEG of a show and the wages and materials consumed getting that tape from the desk to the cd or mp3 and distributed to us. For $10 a download, I can't imagine these are hugely profitable and probably do little more than keep a few people in employment and a small royalty to the band. I don't imagine they sell thousands upon thousands of each show like they would with an album. Most people who I talk to who go to PJ shows as casual fans don't even know PJ offer this product.
Sure if your business is audio or you are a real conosur you can find fault with the recording or levels in the mix - probably justifyably, but to call them unlistenable or really bag them heavily you lose all credibility in your argument. They are BOOTLEGS and need to be seen as such, they are not albums that producers and mixers spend weeks slaving over - they are jigged up desk mixes. I someone can find a better audience recording than any of these boots I think we all need to worship at the feet of whoever recorded it.
To me it would be like me giving the under 13 soccer team I coach a roast at half time because they were not as good as the Brazilian men's team.
Manchester 04.06.00, Leeds 25.08.06, Wembley 18.06.07, Dusseldorf 21.06.07, Shepherds Bush 11.08.09, Manchester 17.08.09, Adelaide 17.11.09, Melbourne 20.11.09, Sydney 22.11.09, Brisbane 25.11.09, MSG1 20.05.10, MSG2 21.05.10, Dublin 22.06.10, Belfast 23.06.10, London 25.06.10, Long Beach 06.07.11 (EV), Los Angeles 08.07.11 (EV), Toronto 11.09.11, Toronto 12.09.11, Ottawa 14.09.11, Hamilton 14.09.11, Manchester 20.06.12, Manchester 21.06.12, Amsterdam 26.06.2012, Amsterdam 27.06.2012, Berlin 04.07.12, Berlin 05.07.12, Stockholm 07.07.12, Oslo 09.07.12, Copenhagen 10.07.12, Manchester 28.07.12 (EV), Brooklyn 18.10.13, Brooklyn 19.10.13, Philly 21.10.13, Philly 22.10.13, San Diego 21.11.13, LA 23.11.13, LA 24.11.13, Oakland 26.11.13, Portland 29.11.13, Spokane 30.11.13, Calgary 02.12.13, Vancouver 04.12.13, Seattle 06.12.13, Trieste 22.06.14, Vienna 25.06.14, Berlin 26.06.14, Stockholm 28.06.14, Leeds 08.07.14, Philly 28.04.16, Philly 28.04.16, MSG1 01.05.16, MSG2 02.05.16
I've got all the shows I've been to these last 12 months: 2010 - MSG2 and Newark; 2009 - LA3, LA4, Perth, Melbourne & Sydney and they sound fine to me. I have the 2003 Penn State cds, Perth 2003, 2006 and others and I think the boots from this year shit all over it in sound quality and mix. As I've previously posted, given the speed these come out and the fact they were never meant to be as good as LOTL, Philly or the DVDs I'm pretty damn happy with them and the fact that PJ makes the effort to provide these to their fans.
The argument that 'we're paying for these - they should be better' is hardly valid given the circumstances. The sound is awesome compared to the best audience bootlegs I've heard. We're paying for a BOOTLEG of a show and the wages and materials consumed getting that tape from the desk to the cd or mp3 and distributed to us. For $10 a download, I can't imagine these are hugely profitable and probably do little more than keep a few people in employment and a small royalty to the band. I don't imagine they sell thousands upon thousands of each show like they would with an album. Most people who I talk to who go to PJ shows as casual fans don't even know PJ offer this product.
Sure if your business is audio or you are a real conosur you can find fault with the recording or levels in the mix - probably justifyably, but to call them unlistenable or really bag them heavily you lose all credibility in your argument. They are BOOTLEGS and need to be seen as such, they are not albums that producers and mixers spend weeks slaving over - they are jigged up desk mixes. I someone can find a better audience recording than any of these boots I think we all need to worship at the feet of whoever recorded it.
To me it would be like me giving the under 13 soccer team I coach a roast at half time because they were not as good as the Brazilian men's team.
I completely disagree!
So for the fact that Pearl Jam makes the effort to provide bootlegs of their shows means that we should all just shut up and be happy with what they give us?
You don't need to be in the business of audio to realize the mix of these bootlegs are poor. My biggest complaint and it always has been is that they used to be so much better! If you went to your favorite restaurant and always ordered a delicious juicy steak and then all of a sudden they started to serve you a chewy dried up chunk of meat would you complain or just be thankful for your food?
You make the argument that these are just bootlegs and not meant to sound great. You go on to say it's not like people actually spent time working on them. Really?
I'm a little confused about your comment that the 2010 bootlegs shit all over the 03 and 06 bootlegs. Is that even good thing?
Then you say they are not meant to be as good as LO2L or the Philly boots. Are you kidding me. The Philly boots are an embarrassment in sound quality compared to LO2L.
Oh well, that being said I'm glad you're happy with them.
" Things were different then, all is different now "
Seattle 09-16-96, Vancouver 07-19-98, Seattle 11-05-00, Seattle 12-09-02, Vancouver 05-30-03, Vancouver 09-02-05, Gorge 07-23-06, Seattle 09-21-09, Seattle 09-22-09, Vancouver 09-25-09
I think they sound absolutely fine. Do you people really find that they sound that horrible? I love that they are only $17, if I have to pay $50 because some people think that they need to sound better, I probqably wouldn't buy as many as I do. For the price they are, they sound great, I enjoy them every day I'm in the truck driving aaround with PJ cranked
2005 - London
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1 2018 - Fenway 1&2 2022 - Hamilton, Toronto 2023 - Chicago 1&2 2024 - Las Vegas 1&2
The argument that 'we're paying for these - they should be better' is hardly valid given the circumstances.
That's not valid in itself Paul. If you pay for something and are not happy with it then you as a consumer have a right and responsibility to express that concern, like, dislike etc. It's the reason why people bother to buy things to begin with. So that statement is an opinion you have a right to and as a consumer you expressed your side as well but to state the oppose is invalid? Come on now. Be fair. Read my post a few posts up.
The argument that 'we're paying for these - they should be better' is hardly valid given the circumstances.
That's not valid in itself Paul. If you pay for something and are not happy with it then you as a consumer have a right and responsibility to express that concern, like, dislike etc. It's the reason why people bother to buy things to begin with. So that statement is an opinion you have a right to and as a consumer you expressed your side as well but to state the oppose is invalid? Come on now. Be fair. Read my post a few posts up.
I think you've taken my quote a little out of context (or I didn't make myself clear enough - or both). I agree the customer has a right to be satisfied with the product and if dissatisfied a right to redress. If a product is no performing as explainted, faulty etc... I'm the wrong person for a retailer to fuck with in selling sub-par products, believe me. I can be the quintessential bush lawyer who always gets ny consumer rights.
The point I was trying to make is that we need to remember what these products are, they are desk recorded bootlegs that are remixed and not live albums and as such, we're getting what we paid for fair and simple. Given the price and sales of these items, I doubt there is a massive profit being made and the fac tthe band is making these available is worth more to me than a perceived sound quality issue. I acknowledge that the sound is never going to be up there with a properly produced live album (look at what kiss had to do on Alive 1 to manage that) and onviously some people prefer the older boots. But I feel they are fine.
To me it is like comparing Image in a Cornice to Touring Band. One is a professionally shot film and the other is a 'bootleg'. In both cases, (Bootleg series and Touring Bnad) the positives far outweigh the negatives.
But that's just my opinion, and opinions are like arseholes and I've been called an arsehole many, many times
The argument that 'we're paying for these - they should be better' is hardly valid given the circumstances.
That's not valid in itself Paul. If you pay for something and are not happy with it then you as a consumer have a right and responsibility to express that concern, like, dislike etc. It's the reason why people bother to buy things to begin with. So that statement is an opinion you have a right to and as a consumer you expressed your side as well but to state the oppose is invalid? Come on now. Be fair. Read my post a few posts up.
I think you've taken my quote a little out of context (or I didn't make myself clear enough - or both). I agree the customer has a right to be satisfied with the product and if dissatisfied a right to redress. If a product is no performing as explainted, faulty etc... I'm the wrong person for a retailer to fuck with in selling sub-par products, believe me. I can be the quintessential bush lawyer who always gets ny consumer rights.
The point I was trying to make is that we need to remember what these products are, they are desk recorded bootlegs that are remixed and not live albums and as such, we're getting what we paid for fair and simple. Given the price and sales of these items, I doubt there is a massive profit being made and the fac tthe band is making these available is worth more to me than a perceived sound quality issue. I acknowledge that the sound is never going to be up there with a properly produced live album (look at what kiss had to do on Alive 1 to manage that) and onviously some people prefer the older boots. But I feel they are fine.
To me it is like comparing Image in a Cornice to Touring Band. One is a professionally shot film and the other is a 'bootleg'. In both cases, (Bootleg series and Touring Bnad) the positives far outweigh the negatives.
But that's just my opinion, and opinions are like arseholes and I've been called an arsehole many, many times
Live shows being mixed and produced for retail. It has nothing to do with where or how. The band has set expectations with these products and people hold them to it. Some are a bit over zealous but most comments and feedback are worthwhile and even spot on. Again, people have valid points and regardless of how they are made does not invalidate consumer expectations within reason. I personally don't have an issue with the shows but the bulk of complaints have been informative and constructive. People expressed there likes and dislikes in 2005 and 2006 and even in 2008 in similar regards and it's through feedback that the band has improved it's quality and products. As far as arseholes goes. Takes one to know one so how ya doing? See you at the next Arsehole meeting.
Yeah, I must admit, my remarks are aimed more at the 'these are unlistanable' or 'totally shit' kind remarks than the contructive and justifiable. I feel I got my money's worth and that in no way negates the notion that well intended feedback and constructive criticism can help create a better product in the long run for all of us. If Stone is too low or lost in the mix then that is an issue.
I just wish the desk recordings and remixings my band did back in the day sounded half as good as these and I know how much effort went into trying to make them sound as good as we got them.
Comments
and we payed money for them, they weren't a gift from PJ, so we are allowed to bitch
they sound like audience bootlegs, or worse
people rip on the 2008 boots, but compare Not For You from the Hartford 2008 boot with the version from MSG 2 2010, quite a change for the worse...in 08 you could actually hear stones solo...and thats just one example
whatever they did to make the 2000 boots sound the way they did, they need to do it again
and it looks like PJ listens to what is said on this board (Black Red Yellow @ MSG), so if enough is said on here about how bad these are, maybe they will put out a better quality product after the next tour
its Pearl Jam, its live, AND IT IS F***ING GREAT !!!
the only headache I get is realizing I will not see them live this year either :(
to you who got to see them or will see them soon, CONGRATULATIONS !!
Peace, Love and Pearl Jam for all
cheers
Except Sundays, that's Ed day.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open. FZ
They sound better than audience boots and we can relive the shows and for that they are perfect and we have no right to complain about it
Versus the ones who say:
We paid for them, they are a product (a very nice one) but they are making them sounding worse for no logic reason and if they once sounded (alot) better (2000/2003 and even 2006) they could and should make them that way again.
I say:
It is great that they offer bootlegs - really fucking great. But when you pay for them they are a product and you have the right to complain. So the idea is really superduper by why not start putting a little more effort in the mixing when they cost 17 dollars... and have sounded better... and also... offer them pressed and not on CD-R
Another thing regarding these boots, b/c they're cdr, they have a real tough time playing in my car cd player. The 2008 series were also cdr but they work fine, its these particular cdr's that don't work well. Seeing how this is not a problem for everyone, I guess it doesn't really matter but it would be nice to get silver back cds if I'm paying $17 for them.
Also people keep saying you have to be listening to them on a proper sound system. Well I have a pair of KRK studio monitors and they still sound the same. Not good.
The question I want to ask is this: Does the band think these boots sound ok? I would really like to know, b/c if they do, then maybe we are all wrong. Do they even listen to them before they are sent out? I know, I know, they are wayyyyyy to busy, and have a million things to do with the band and family and everything else but still I wonder if theyve actually listened to them?
BUT I STILL LOVE THE BAND AND EVERYTHING THE TENCLUB DOES. I AM TRULY GRATEFUL FOR EVERYTHING THIS BAND HAS GIVEN ME.
What say you Kat? Sea? Santos?
The Philly 2009 boots are just that. They're from 2009. They sound good and should as they had six months to get them right. Plus the fact that it was a special event makes it all the more important to get them sounding close perfect, if not. The rest of the 2009 shows were available within two weeks or so after the show was over, but the Philly shows were held for whatever reason. I guess the reason I stated above. I'm amost wondering whether something went wrong somewhere and that's why they weren't released sooner. Like maybe they were completed and someone didn't like how they came out so they had to start over, or maybe there was a glitch with the audio. Just a thought.
Anyways, I just received my 2009 box set today and was curious how 2009 sounded compared to the poor excuse for bootlegs that we've gotten lately. I popped in Melbourne from 11.20.2009 and was somewhat happily surprised. Obviously much better than what we've gotten lately. Ed's vocals were much more upfront as were the rest of the instruments unlike 2010 were everything sounds echoey, tinney, and distant. Now I haven't listened to the rest of the shows as I just got the box today, but plan on it just about everyday til I listen to them all. So my question is, if all of the 2009 bootlegs sound as good or at least close to Melbourne, than what happened from 2009 to now???? Is someone different mixing these than last year? How can these bootlegs change so much in a short period of time? It's fustrating! Ugghhh!
And Lastly, hopethatuchoke, I just want to agree with u 100% as I also agree that the 2003 distribution of Pearl Jam bootlegs was the best! Order only through 10 Club, get decent mp3's of the show u want, which were up within 24 hours, in the meantime until the physical cd and fantastic cases come with silver cd's instead of common cdr's in the mail. The only problem might be that Brett Eliason was on the tour with the band in 2003 recording the show out in a truck just off stage, and I don't think they do this anymore with the truck. But I could be wrong. I think this is why it takes longer to get our shows these days as they don't do this kind of thing anymore. Here's hoping for better mixing for the European shows. Later
Or maybe they will say fuck 'em, they don't appreciate what we do, so no more bootleg program. And also they are definately better than audience recordings.
WPB 08 audience recording sounds better than the official bootleg. Arguably, so does bonnaroo. I'm sure thy aren't the only ones.
I hate to say it, but I think they've prbably lost my business on bootlegs this tour. I was planning on buying 6 or 7 CDS but after all the negative reviews it's hard to justify it. If people are comparing these to 2008 style, there's no way I'm shelling money for these..Sorry but the quality of the 08 boots was horrible. The mixing was waaay off. I loved the 09 boots so much though so I don't know what happened?
And still - "at least there better then audience recordings" is not an argument when they sounded way better in 2003.
Kufala has nothing to do with the mixing and recording. All they do is burn the damn cd-rs from the recordings given to them already mixed and put the cds in the packaging and mail it.
thats my concern too
you cant stop people voicing their opinions on a product they have shelled out for and are not happy with i guess.
I think if you emailed Kufala they would address it with the mixing source,
To me they sound just fine.....but with a live bootleg I dont expect a perfect recording.....Im one of those just happy to get them.......
i hear that
sack up people enjoy them
and to think some one might say these sound worse than an audience recording just is rediculous.
come on, really ....... better than a audience recording?
that's silly
this is a live recording.
maybe this goes beyond post production issues.
enjoy it for what it is.
I enjoy it for what it is: a souvenir from the shows I attended. But I'm done collecting other shows or caring how this Even Flow sounds compared to that Even Flow because these boots really do sound bad. See in 2000, Pearl Jam released 72 LIVE ALBUMS and called them 'bootlegs' because it sounded cool. Now...they're literally just releasing bootlegs.
And don't get me started on the burn-to-order CDR crap. They should totally scrap that idea and put whatever money is saved toward the actual recording, mixing, and mastering of the shows. The 2000 series was awesome. In 2003, you had to put a sticker of the setlist onto the package but at least they were still professionally manufactured CDs. But it numbs my mind that people would pay for these CDRs. You could grab them on mp3@256kbps for $9.99 and then do whatever you want with them. I think that paying for a piece of cardboard and a burnt CD is idiotic....especially when the sound quality is so poor.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
agreed. i usually pick up the shows i attend as kind of a souvenir. but when push comes to shove... if i am reaching for a boot it is going to be from the 2000 series.
As fans and consumers, we have a right and an invested interest to provide our views, likes, dislikes of these products but we must also realize that Pearl Jam has done more than it's fair share to meet us half way. They can't please all of us all the time but they can please most of us most of the time when it comes to the things we want. I am not aware of any band who goes as far as they do for there fans continuously as they do and have over the years. We as fans are spoiled rotten to the core and that's okay. It means the band is doing something right. They are not perfect and have tried different things to find success for there fans and will continue to do so and that's important to them and provides better opportunities to us as fans.
So, if people think something is idiotic then that's there right but when a majority asks for something and gets it then that's not idiotic. It's a band with a business model who tries within there means to reasonably make it happen. If we as fans and consumers continue to provide such feedback that is constructive and respectful then the band will do as they always have and try to improve what they can based on our feedback. Just keep that in mind my fellow fans and freaks.
I'm Guilty of That!...lol :P
You make an excellent point.
Seattle 09-16-96, Vancouver 07-19-98, Seattle 11-05-00, Seattle 12-09-02, Vancouver 05-30-03, Vancouver 09-02-05, Gorge 07-23-06, Seattle 09-21-09, Seattle 09-22-09, Vancouver 09-25-09
Exactly what he said!!
1998: Va Beach VA
2000: Va Beach VA, Columbia MD
2003: Raleigh NC, Bristow VA
2008: Washington DC
2009: Philly 3
2010: Bristow VA
2013: Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Charlotte NC
2014: Cincinnati, OH
2016: Hampton, VA, Raleigh, NC
a) they are definitely worse than past years, i don't get all the hate for 2008, they are much better than these
b) Stone is way too low in the mix, which to me is a huge offense (its why the ACL broadcast sucked IMO)
c) some songs are worse than others in terms of the 'recorded in a garbage can" kinda sound
Can anyone tell me which 2010 ones are worth buying?
So far have Columbus, Cleveland and MSG2, and Columbus is the best sounding by far.
1998: Melbourne 1, 2, 3
2003: Sydney 1, 2, 3, Melbourne 1, 2, 3
2006: Sydney 1, 2, Melbourne 1, 2, 3, Sydney 3, Newcastle, Adelaide 1, 2, Perth
2009: LA 1, 2, Melbourne, Sydney
2014: Gold Coast, Melbourne, Sydney
Exactly what makes them subpar?
The argument that 'we're paying for these - they should be better' is hardly valid given the circumstances. The sound is awesome compared to the best audience bootlegs I've heard. We're paying for a BOOTLEG of a show and the wages and materials consumed getting that tape from the desk to the cd or mp3 and distributed to us. For $10 a download, I can't imagine these are hugely profitable and probably do little more than keep a few people in employment and a small royalty to the band. I don't imagine they sell thousands upon thousands of each show like they would with an album. Most people who I talk to who go to PJ shows as casual fans don't even know PJ offer this product.
Sure if your business is audio or you are a real conosur you can find fault with the recording or levels in the mix - probably justifyably, but to call them unlistenable or really bag them heavily you lose all credibility in your argument. They are BOOTLEGS and need to be seen as such, they are not albums that producers and mixers spend weeks slaving over - they are jigged up desk mixes. I someone can find a better audience recording than any of these boots I think we all need to worship at the feet of whoever recorded it.
To me it would be like me giving the under 13 soccer team I coach a roast at half time because they were not as good as the Brazilian men's team.
I completely disagree!
So for the fact that Pearl Jam makes the effort to provide bootlegs of their shows means that we should all just shut up and be happy with what they give us?
You don't need to be in the business of audio to realize the mix of these bootlegs are poor. My biggest complaint and it always has been is that they used to be so much better! If you went to your favorite restaurant and always ordered a delicious juicy steak and then all of a sudden they started to serve you a chewy dried up chunk of meat would you complain or just be thankful for your food?
You make the argument that these are just bootlegs and not meant to sound great. You go on to say it's not like people actually spent time working on them. Really?
I'm a little confused about your comment that the 2010 bootlegs shit all over the 03 and 06 bootlegs. Is that even good thing?
Then you say they are not meant to be as good as LO2L or the Philly boots. Are you kidding me. The Philly boots are an embarrassment in sound quality compared to LO2L.
Oh well, that being said I'm glad you're happy with them.
Seattle 09-16-96, Vancouver 07-19-98, Seattle 11-05-00, Seattle 12-09-02, Vancouver 05-30-03, Vancouver 09-02-05, Gorge 07-23-06, Seattle 09-21-09, Seattle 09-22-09, Vancouver 09-25-09
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1
2018 - Fenway 1&2
2022 - Hamilton, Toronto
2023 - Chicago 1&2
2024 - Las Vegas 1&2
That's not valid in itself Paul. If you pay for something and are not happy with it then you as a consumer have a right and responsibility to express that concern, like, dislike etc. It's the reason why people bother to buy things to begin with. So that statement is an opinion you have a right to and as a consumer you expressed your side as well but to state the oppose is invalid? Come on now. Be fair. Read my post a few posts up.
I think you've taken my quote a little out of context (or I didn't make myself clear enough - or both). I agree the customer has a right to be satisfied with the product and if dissatisfied a right to redress. If a product is no performing as explainted, faulty etc... I'm the wrong person for a retailer to fuck with in selling sub-par products, believe me. I can be the quintessential bush lawyer who always gets ny consumer rights.
The point I was trying to make is that we need to remember what these products are, they are desk recorded bootlegs that are remixed and not live albums and as such, we're getting what we paid for fair and simple. Given the price and sales of these items, I doubt there is a massive profit being made and the fac tthe band is making these available is worth more to me than a perceived sound quality issue. I acknowledge that the sound is never going to be up there with a properly produced live album (look at what kiss had to do on Alive 1 to manage that) and onviously some people prefer the older boots. But I feel they are fine.
To me it is like comparing Image in a Cornice to Touring Band. One is a professionally shot film and the other is a 'bootleg'. In both cases, (Bootleg series and Touring Bnad) the positives far outweigh the negatives.
But that's just my opinion, and opinions are like arseholes and I've been called an arsehole many, many times
Live shows being mixed and produced for retail. It has nothing to do with where or how. The band has set expectations with these products and people hold them to it. Some are a bit over zealous but most comments and feedback are worthwhile and even spot on. Again, people have valid points and regardless of how they are made does not invalidate consumer expectations within reason. I personally don't have an issue with the shows but the bulk of complaints have been informative and constructive. People expressed there likes and dislikes in 2005 and 2006 and even in 2008 in similar regards and it's through feedback that the band has improved it's quality and products.
I just wish the desk recordings and remixings my band did back in the day sounded half as good as these and I know how much effort went into trying to make them sound as good as we got them.