Maybe the OP was a video about suicide.
Did anyone ever consider that? NO.
It's always dicks, nuts and butt jokes on this serious forum.
Frankly I dislike posting in here because someone always comes along and fucks up your point.
Blow your brains out on here and I will be glad to serve you back what you give. Women are raped in so many ways. and unless you have a vagina. shut the hell up.
Except for SCB, this thread did exactly what i knew it would do. NOthing useful. Just opposition to a point very much missed.
p.s. the "woman" in the blue bathing suit looks like she pissed her pants. some day she will have to wear panty liners for bladder control, how sexy :?: will she be then?
Maybe it was about suicide, what does it matter? Art is all about how it is perceived.
Yeah, a lot of people might say things that you don’t like, but that is the beauty of a ‘discussion’ board. If some things are off-topic, or you don’t like the type of response, you can ignore it and keep the thread going if you have something relevant to say.
I think a lot of people in here have made good points. I agree with almost everything people are saying in these threads, especially SCB. This is a friendly debate that is very enlightening.
This is a very interesting topic and it is very insightful to see how different people (esp. of different sexes) react…If you really think it did NOTHING useful, I am sad to disagree and can only wonder that it’s just not what you wanted to hear.
Also, you’ve possibly revealed the real issue – how jealousy can make people resentful and insecure. You’re right, one day the girl in the swimsuit might need panty liners but there’s no need to drag her down in this thread too. She’s a person just like the rest of us. My opinion is, she will probably still be beautiful in her panty liners because she is confident and healthy.
Are you looking for a flaw in her? Because I personally think this is what makes some women so over-competitive with each other. When I see Brad Pitt half naked I think to myself, “Damn, that’s what it takes to get Jennifer Anniston and Angelina Jolie!? Lucky guy!”, --Not--, “gee that Brad Pitt is gonna have a hell of a time wiping his ass when he’s old,(jealousy) how sexy will he be then?!
Maybe it was about suicide, what does it matter? Art is all about how it is perceived.
Yeah, a lot of people might say things that you don’t like, but that is the beauty of a ‘discussion’ board. If some things are off-topic, or you don’t like the type of response, you can ignore it and keep the thread going if you have something relevant to say.
I think a lot of people in here have made good points. I agree with almost everything people are saying in these threads, especially SCB. This is a friendly debate that is very enlightening.
This is a very interesting topic and it is very insightful to see how different people (esp. of different sexes) react…If you really think it did NOTHING useful, I am sad to disagree and can only wonder that it’s just not what you wanted to hear.
Also, you’ve possibly revealed the real issue – how jealousy can make people resentful and insecure. You’re right, one day the girl in the swimsuit might need panty liners but there’s no need to drag her down in this thread too. She’s a person just like the rest of us. My opinion is, she will probably still be beautiful in her panty liners because she is confident and healthy.
Are you looking for a flaw in her? Because I personally think this is what makes some women so over-competitive with each other. When I see Brad Pitt half naked I think to myself, “Damn, that’s what it takes to get Jennifer Anniston and Angelina Jolie!? Lucky guy!”, --Not--, “gee that Brad Pitt is gonna have a hell of a time wiping his ass when he’s old,(jealousy) how sexy will he be then?!
Totally agree
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Blow your brains out on here and I will be glad to serve you back what you give. Women are raped in so many ways. and unless you have a vagina. shut the hell up.
Geez... dramatic much? The bold sentence could be about the most overdramatic thing that I've read on here (and that's saying a lot). If you didn't want to hear from men, then why post it on an open forum?
You must have missed her seal slaughter thread.
BhagavadGita - you have now posted two interesting topics, then tried to control the discussion by abusively criticizing dissenting opinions. There are mods to report out of line or off-topic posts to if you think people are posting inappropriately. You don't need to police the thread just cause you started it. Chill out and discuss what you've thrown out there with us...isn't that the whole fucking point to this place?
This, to a lesser extent, is a problem for men too....a lot of guys inject themselves full of all kinds of shit to get buff, pop hair loss pills and erectile dysfunction meds....and eating disorders do affect both sexes.
Yes, the media plays it's part...but I think the 'ideal' is in the eye of the beholder, and is different for different people - it's not like there is one celebrity body-type that everyone wishes to imitate. Kate Moss and J-Lo, aside from not being obese, don't share many physical features.
I don't feel that people who destroy their health out of vanity are media vicitms; they may have distorted self-images, but I think to portray them as victims is a bit self-serving....like "I'm smart enough to see through all this bullshit, but most people are not".
I mean...If men's attitudes and the media are solely to blame for women's desire to be thin...why don't ALL women have eating disorders?
I think Johnny P nailed it with his jealousy comments...and jealousy is always rooted in insecurity and low self esteem. I think we've covered how diverse the influences on our esteem are. media, parents, past relationships, childhood experiences etc etc...
just .02 from a guy perpetuating an evil cycle via my media-programmed preference for thin women :roll:
I'm sorry, but who said "most men"? The post I read referred to the media, and said the media is comprised of "mostly" men. That's totally different. Geez... why all the defensiveness around here?
How is the media mostly men? Like I mentioned in an earlier post, pretty much all of those fashion magazines like Vogue, Cosmo, Glamour, Etc have women running them as editor in chief. So if it is a women running the magazine and getting the final say as to what goes in them (and what goes on the cover), why aren't women in the media as much to blame as men (if not more).
because sex sells and one thing men and women have in common is the want and need for money, just jumped back into this topic so if repeted anything I apoligize.
Godfather.
Wow, Godfather! This might be the first thread where we actually agree!
Kel - No one has said the women in the media bear no responsibility. It has only been said that the media is primarily under the control of men, which I'm pretty sure everyone knows is just true. Are you disputing that the media in general is primarily controlled by men? Hell, Rupert Murdoch owns the biggest chunk of the media and he's a man! Yes, the women who have positions of "power' at the glamour magazines serve to strengthen the status quo. Of course, if they didn't, they'd get fired.
I am also curious what how the rate of eating disorders like anorexia compares to the rate of obesity. I mean sure some people see a super skinny, or even super fit person in a magazine and decide they are going to go on an unhealthy diet where they only eat celery and drink water. But how many people just see a person who is in better shape then them in a magazine and decide they are going to make healthier choices in life, stop eating so many big macs and maybe get a bit of exercise. I mean sure it is totally possibly that if you stopped showing skinny models in magazines you might decrease the number of people with anorexia, but you also might actually increase the number of people who are morbidly obese.
Why are some "men" like this? Especially a Pearl Jam fan? I guess they don't hear the music. Personally I find their responses the opposite of sexy, it's repulsive and personally I'd like to see one man watch that video and actually show some understanding of the other half, us women, you rely on.
Those are such helpless statements that are really only copouts.
People have brains. People can make choices for themselves. People can choose to reject or embrace anything or everything they have been taught or exposed to. We do this all the time, people.
- 42% of elementary school students between the 1st and 3rd grades want to be thinner.
- 80% of children who are ten years old are afraid of being fat.
- 51% of 9 and 10 year old girls feel better about themselves if they are on a diet.
- 90% of all girls ages 3-11 have a Barbie doll, an early role model with a figure that is unattainable in real life.
- 47% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported wanting to lose weight because of magazine pictures.
- 69% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported that magazine pictures influenced their idea of a perfect body shape.
- In a study of children aged 8-10, approximately 50 per cent of girls said they were unhappy with their size.
- Anorexia is the 3rd most common chronic illness among adolescents.
Yeah! Those damn children need to take personal responsibility instead of acting all helpless like the media has any influence over them! What a fucking copout!
give me one reason why you think it's wrong aside from you don't like it ... if you lived in china where everyone was doing this - do you think that you would honestly feel the same way!??
you can go on about how everyone has choices and to a certain degree i agree with you and commend that attitude but the truth is society has incredible pressures - some are easier to break free from while others are not ... you make it sound like its a simple choice people make when in fact - it's years of sociological evolution at play ...
the majority of our justice system is based on social conformity ... it is everywhere ...
This thread - and your point above about social norms - makes me think of the thread awhile back about women not shaving their legs. Did you see all the insults hurled at the women who choose to break this norm? You'd think they weren't going to be allowed into society!
I love how people have failed to acknowledge the very real consequences, in the form of discrimination, for women who fall outside of the standard of beauty in this society. Studies have shown that women who are heavier get passed over for jobs & promotions, get paid less on average, etc. than their thinner counterparts. No pressure to conform though! :roll:
interesting discussion, is something i have thought about a lot.
in my opinion, it's quite naive to say that eating disorders, negative body image and even men's perceptions of women exist inside the vacuum of personal choice, outside of any societal influence. whomever brought up the point that our modern ideal of female beauty contradicts earlier eras' views on female beauty is right on. does anyone really think eating disorders and negative body image were such a problem in past ages, when female beauty was seen in different terms?
i think beauty is almost completely a socially defined concept, and to act like peoples' perceptions exist outside their larger culture is wrong.
the original post said "mostly men", which is an awful blanket statement, i just mis-typed.
I certainly don't think that the mags and stupid shows are the ONLY thing, but it is a start to the problem. Like i said, the other problem is cultural/society. Parents need to educate their kids about morals and what are good qualities and healthy choices. People can be raised to feel more strongly about self esteem in different ways.
To stop making comments like the first three post is never going to happen and nor do i see anything wrong with it. on a side note --> Just a personal experience, my g/f right in front of me was drooling over some guy with a great body and soap opera hair just the other day. I did not care, and most guys wouldnt give two shits. He looked healty and I don't blame her for being attracted to him.
Those types of comments about how 'hot' a person is can come from either sex, it's just how the same sex responds to it that is very different.
She can correct me if I'm wrong, but I still think you're misunderstanding the OP's statement. She said, "The inability to see the truth is what the media (mostly men) have done to the female body image." The MEDIA is the subject of this sentence - the group that is being accused of creating the inability to see the truth about the female body image - NOT men. Just because the media is controlled by "mostly men" does not mean the terms "media" and "men" are synonymous. So, in fact, the OP's statement was not at all a blanket statement about men.
I love how you shift the responsibility to the media and the parents but think there's no responsibility to be found with statements like the posts in question. It's so predictable. (Didn't I actually just make this prediction last night?) So, just so I'm clear, are you really saying that posts like the ones above play absolutely no role in this problem?
And just because people think differently than you, doesn't mean that it's "nothing useful". Very dismissive approach by you... If your point of view is formed, and nothing but affirmation will be considered useful, then why bother.
So, when it comes to the problems of suicide, anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorders, and negative self-image in girls, please help me identify the posts in this thread that have been useful in any way in solving these problems? Do you really think the "women should look like stick figures" comments are useful?? Are there any posts with anyone taking any personal responsibility to do their part to not increase these problems? Or are people primarily just saying it's the fault of the media and the parents but they intend to continue making the comments that are part of the problem?
And just because people think differently than you, doesn't mean that it's "nothing useful". Very dismissive approach by you... If your point of view is formed, and nothing but affirmation will be considered useful, then why bother.
So, when it comes to the problems of suicide, anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorders, and negative self-image in girls, please help me identify the posts in this thread that have been useful in any way in solving these problems? Do you really think the "women should look like stick figures" comments are useful??
So the sole purpose of this thread and these posts is to solve the gigantic issue that is negative body image?
Post edited by eMMI on
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
I don't think anyone missed the point... but the thing that some of us were saying is that the woman in the bathing suit isn't anorexic and you apparently disagree with that. Its not a crime to be skinny and not all skinny people are anorexic.
I don't think anyone has said she's anorexic. Anorexia is a behavior disorder, not a weight, and no one knows what she does except for her. I think people - me, at least - have said this body type is not the one that should be upheld as the ideal image for all the little girls to try to attain.
Studies have shown that women who are heavier get passed over for jobs & promotions, get paid less on average, etc. than their thinner counterparts. No pressure to conform though! :roll:
Again, this holds true for men as well. Attraction/appearance do play a role in how we're viewed in the workplace, for sure.
As for the stats you posted...while I agree that some of those figures are heartbreaking (I have a daughter in gr.1 and it kills me to think that her peers are already having self-image issues)...but...childhood obesity is a big problem too. I have to wonder what percentage of the kids who wish they were thinner, wish so because they're obese.
Previewing my post, I saw your last couple of posts....what do YOU think would be helpful in solving the problem? no one expressing what they find attractive? The media is a basically a mirror of societal norms, no?
Blow your brains out on here and I will be glad to serve you back what you give. Women are raped in so many ways. and unless you have a vagina. shut the hell up.
Geez... dramatic much? The bold sentence could be about the most overdramatic thing that I've read on here (and that's saying a lot). If you didn't want to hear from men, then why post it on an open forum?
You must have missed her seal slaughter thread.
BhagavadGita - you have now posted two interesting topics, then tried to control the discussion by abusively criticizing dissenting opinions. There are mods to report out of line or off-topic posts to if you think people are posting inappropriately. You don't need to police the thread just cause you started it. Chill out and discuss what you've thrown out there with us...isn't that the whole fucking point to this place?
This, to a lesser extent, is a problem for men too....a lot of guys inject themselves full of all kinds of shit to get buff, pop hair loss pills and erectile dysfunction meds....and eating disorders do affect both sexes.
Yes, the media plays it's part...but I think the 'ideal' is in the eye of the beholder, and is different for different people - it's not like there is one celebrity body-type that everyone wishes to imitate. Kate Moss and J-Lo, aside from not being obese, don't share many physical features.
I don't feel that people who destroy their health out of vanity are media vicitms; they may have distorted self-images, but I think to portray them as victims is a bit self-serving....like "I'm smart enough to see through all this bullshit, but most people are not".
I mean...If men's attitudes and the media are solely to blame for women's desire to be thin...why don't ALL women have eating disorders?
I think Johnny P nailed it with his jealousy comments...and jealousy is always rooted in insecurity and low self esteem. I think we've covered how diverse the influences on our esteem are. media, parents, past relationships, childhood experiences etc etc...
just .02 from a guy perpetuating an evil cycle via my media-programmed preference for thin women :roll:
1. Despite your (and others') problem with the phrasing of her point, the message was clear and valid if you ask me. The message I heard was that many men don't have a true understanding of what it's like to be a woman in this society and many of the posts in this thread support that idea.
2. Jealous?? You boys need to lay off. It's so sad how, when women are trying to make intelligent points about relevant topic like healthy body image, y'all are so quick to dismiss dissenting opinions as jealously. Give me a break! I read her comment as one of concern for the personhood of the woman in the picture and women everywhere, who deserve to be loved even when we have incontinence - but the message in photos such as those is that we won't be. Seriously - do you think the men here will give two shits about this woman once her body no longer fits their ideal of sexy?
3. If the media had no influence of people, it would not be a multi-bilion dollar industry.
And just because people think differently than you, doesn't mean that it's "nothing useful". Very dismissive approach by you... If your point of view is formed, and nothing but affirmation will be considered useful, then why bother.
So, when it comes to the problems of suicide, anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorders, and negative self-image in girls, please help me identify the posts in this thread that have been useful in any way in solving these problems? Do you really think the "women should look like stick figures" comments are useful?? Are there any posts with anyone taking any personal responsibility to do their part to not increase these problems? Or are people primarily just saying it's the fault of the media and the parents but they intend to continue making the comments that are part of the problem?
If all you got out of six pages is "women should look like stick figures" comments, then I don't know what to tell you.
And I must have missed the sticky on this forum that said every comment in a thread has to be useful in solving massive societal problems to be of any value.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I am also curious what how the rate of eating disorders like anorexia compares to the rate of obesity. I mean sure some people see a super skinny, or even super fit person in a magazine and decide they are going to go on an unhealthy diet where they only eat celery and drink water. But how many people just see a person who is in better shape then them in a magazine and decide they are going to make healthier choices in life, stop eating so many big macs and maybe get a bit of exercise. I mean sure it is totally possibly that if you stopped showing skinny models in magazines you might decrease the number of people with anorexia, but you also might actually increase the number of people who are morbidly obese.
I believe there's data to dispute your theory, but I'll have to look for it later.
Why are some "men" like this? Especially a Pearl Jam fan? I guess they don't hear the music. Personally I find their responses the opposite of sexy, it's repulsive and personally I'd like to see one man watch that video and actually show some understanding of the other half, us women, you rely on.
Yes, because PJ doesn't like models.....right.
There's a difference between falling in love with a wonderful woman despite the fact that she's a model and holding up her body (and nothing else) as a shrine for men to lust after and women to spend their lives striving for. I believe our boys in the band understand this difference and use their music to express it.
I am also curious what how the rate of eating disorders like anorexia compares to the rate of obesity. I mean sure some people see a super skinny, or even super fit person in a magazine and decide they are going to go on an unhealthy diet where they only eat celery and drink water. But how many people just see a person who is in better shape then them in a magazine and decide they are going to make healthier choices in life, stop eating so many big macs and maybe get a bit of exercise. I mean sure it is totally possibly that if you stopped showing skinny models in magazines you might decrease the number of people with anorexia, but you also might actually increase the number of people who are morbidly obese.
I believe there's data to dispute your theory, but I'll have to look for it later.
But you yourself posted that "- 42% of elementary school students between the 1st and 3rd grades want to be thinner.". And if something like one third of all children are overweight how much crossover there is between the actual overweight kids and the ones who want to be thinner? And if a kid actually is overweight, which is also a health problem, is it really a bad thing that they want to lose weight?
interesting discussion, is something i have thought about a lot.
in my opinion, it's quite naive to say that eating disorders, negative body image and even men's perceptions of women exist inside the vacuum of personal choice, outside of any societal influence. whomever brought up the point that our modern ideal of female beauty contradicts earlier eras' views on female beauty is right on. does anyone really think eating disorders and negative body image were such a problem in past ages, when female beauty was seen in different terms?
i think beauty is almost completely a socially defined concept, and to act like peoples' perceptions exist outside their larger culture is wrong.
There's also data to prove your point that as the "ideal" body image has gotten smaller, the prevalence of eating disorders has drastically increased, as have the bank accounts of the "beauty" industry.
And just because people think differently than you, doesn't mean that it's "nothing useful". Very dismissive approach by you... If your point of view is formed, and nothing but affirmation will be considered useful, then why bother.
So, when it comes to the problems of suicide, anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorders, and negative self-image in girls, please help me identify the posts in this thread that have been useful in any way in solving these problems? Do you really think the "women should look like stick figures" comments are useful??
So the sole purpose of this thread and these posts is to solve the gigantic issue that is negative body image?
Well you'd have to ask the OP, but I don't think the purpose of the thread was to reenforce the problem.
And just because people think differently than you, doesn't mean that it's "nothing useful". Very dismissive approach by you... If your point of view is formed, and nothing but affirmation will be considered useful, then why bother.
So, when it comes to the problems of suicide, anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorders, and negative self-image in girls, please help me identify the posts in this thread that have been useful in any way in solving these problems? Do you really think the "women should look like stick figures" comments are useful?? Are there any posts with anyone taking any personal responsibility to do their part to not increase these problems? Or are people primarily just saying it's the fault of the media and the parents but they intend to continue making the comments that are part of the problem?
If all you got out of six pages is "women should look like stick figures" comments, then I don't know what to tell you.
And I must have missed the sticky on this forum that said every comment in a thread has to be useful in solving massive societal problems to be of any value.
I didn't say all the comments said women should look like stick figures or that all comments had to be useful. I just asked you to point out the useful posts, since you were arguing with the assertion that most of the posts weren't useful.
She can correct me if I'm wrong, but I still think you're misunderstanding the OP's statement. She said, "The inability to see the truth is what the media (mostly men) have done to the female body image." The MEDIA is the subject of this sentence - the group that is being accused of creating the inability to see the truth about the female body image - NOT men. Just because the media is controlled by "mostly men" does not mean the terms "media" and "men" are synonymous. So, in fact, the OP's statement was not at all a blanket statement about men.
I love how you shift the responsibility to the media and the parents but think there's no responsibility to be found with statements like the posts in question. It's so predictable. (Didn't I actually just make this prediction last night?) So, just so I'm clear, are you really saying that posts like the ones above play absolutely no role in this problem?
you are right, I confused the "moslty men" comment with her comment further down that read:
"Why are some "men" like this? Especially a Pearl Jam fan? I guess they don't hear the music."
...it just sounds like she is lumping all of our responses into a heap like someone else also said.
I never shifted any responsibility. I was just highlighting what seems to be a major contributor to some womens personal perceived body images. I never said that those types of posts don't contribute to the problem. I just don't see how men making comments about a beautiful woman should give other women self esteem issues. I do see why posts like this play a role in the problem, but I don't understand it. I am merely saying that if I see abeautiful woman walking down the street and say to my friend, "Hey, she's beautiful", how is that any different from posting a picture of a beautiful woman? if it's my human nature to be attracted to someone like Marissa Miller, should I keep my mouth shut, never say anything? I'm trying to point out that it's all how you perceive things and yourself. If you compare yourself to others too much, you're going to be in trouble. (especially about things like objective beauty)
1. Despite your (and others') problem with the phrasing of her point, the message was clear and valid if you ask me. The message I heard was that many men don't have a true understanding of what it's like to be a woman in this society and many of the posts in this thread support that idea.
2. Jealous?? You boys need to lay off. It's so sad how, when women are trying to make intelligent points about relevant topic like healthy body image, y'all are so quick to dismiss dissenting opinions as jealously. Give me a break! I read her comment as one of concern for the personhood of the woman in the picture and women everywhere, who deserve to be loved even when we have incontinence - but the message in photos such as those is that we won't be. Seriously - do you think the men here will give two shits about this woman once her body no longer fits their ideal of sexy?
3. If the media had no influence of people, it would not be a multi-bilion dollar industry.
Yes, jealousy. My point is that if we are talking about ideal womens body (what does that even mean? are we talking healthy? sexy? tall? Athletic?) and someone responded with a picture of a woman and she replies with:
p.s. the "woman" in the blue bathing suit looks like she pissed her pants. some day she will have to wear panty liners for bladder control, how sexy :?: will she be then?
I see what I see...
AGAIN, my point is that many women are so competitive with each other! most men dont care what the next guy looks like. This is just a theory/stereotype but: Why don't more men suffer from these diseases? men arent as jealous of each other.
Anyone who doubts the media's impact on body image is just not being realistic. The media helps define and communicate our culture and sadly, rail-thin women = beauty is a message that is being sent. It is interesting to me that western cultures have perpetuated that image and western cultures have the highest rates of anorexia and bulemia. If you go to other parts of the world, you'll find an entirely different definition of "ideal woman's body," and that ideal is likely based on what kind of body produces children, nutures the community, survives in harsh conditions, etc. I don't know a thing about the woman who is in the picture posted earlier in this thread, but something tells me she wouldn't survive a single day in the artic circle.
Anyone who doubts the media's impact on body image is just not being realistic. The media helps define and communicate our culture and sadly, rail-thin women = beauty is a message that is being sent. It is interesting to me that western cultures have perpetuated that image and western cultures have the highest rates of anorexia and bulemia.
But western cultures also have the highest rates of morbid obesity so how exactly does the media come into play there I wonder?
Comments
Maybe it was about suicide, what does it matter? Art is all about how it is perceived.
Yeah, a lot of people might say things that you don’t like, but that is the beauty of a ‘discussion’ board. If some things are off-topic, or you don’t like the type of response, you can ignore it and keep the thread going if you have something relevant to say.
I think a lot of people in here have made good points. I agree with almost everything people are saying in these threads, especially SCB. This is a friendly debate that is very enlightening.
This is a very interesting topic and it is very insightful to see how different people (esp. of different sexes) react…If you really think it did NOTHING useful, I am sad to disagree and can only wonder that it’s just not what you wanted to hear.
Also, you’ve possibly revealed the real issue – how jealousy can make people resentful and insecure. You’re right, one day the girl in the swimsuit might need panty liners but there’s no need to drag her down in this thread too. She’s a person just like the rest of us. My opinion is, she will probably still be beautiful in her panty liners because she is confident and healthy.
Are you looking for a flaw in her? Because I personally think this is what makes some women so over-competitive with each other. When I see Brad Pitt half naked I think to myself, “Damn, that’s what it takes to get Jennifer Anniston and Angelina Jolie!? Lucky guy!”, --Not--, “gee that Brad Pitt is gonna have a hell of a time wiping his ass when he’s old,(jealousy) how sexy will he be then?!
Totally agree
Such wisdom.....
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Godfather.
BhagavadGita - you have now posted two interesting topics, then tried to control the discussion by abusively criticizing dissenting opinions. There are mods to report out of line or off-topic posts to if you think people are posting inappropriately. You don't need to police the thread just cause you started it. Chill out and discuss what you've thrown out there with us...isn't that the whole fucking point to this place?
This, to a lesser extent, is a problem for men too....a lot of guys inject themselves full of all kinds of shit to get buff, pop hair loss pills and erectile dysfunction meds....and eating disorders do affect both sexes.
Yes, the media plays it's part...but I think the 'ideal' is in the eye of the beholder, and is different for different people - it's not like there is one celebrity body-type that everyone wishes to imitate. Kate Moss and J-Lo, aside from not being obese, don't share many physical features.
I don't feel that people who destroy their health out of vanity are media vicitms; they may have distorted self-images, but I think to portray them as victims is a bit self-serving....like "I'm smart enough to see through all this bullshit, but most people are not".
I mean...If men's attitudes and the media are solely to blame for women's desire to be thin...why don't ALL women have eating disorders?
I think Johnny P nailed it with his jealousy comments...and jealousy is always rooted in insecurity and low self esteem. I think we've covered how diverse the influences on our esteem are. media, parents, past relationships, childhood experiences etc etc...
just .02 from a guy perpetuating an evil cycle via my media-programmed preference for thin women
Wow, Godfather! This might be the first thread where we actually agree!
Kel - No one has said the women in the media bear no responsibility. It has only been said that the media is primarily under the control of men, which I'm pretty sure everyone knows is just true. Are you disputing that the media in general is primarily controlled by men? Hell, Rupert Murdoch owns the biggest chunk of the media and he's a man! Yes, the women who have positions of "power' at the glamour magazines serve to strengthen the status quo. Of course, if they didn't, they'd get fired.
Yes, because PJ doesn't like models.....right.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
- 42% of elementary school students between the 1st and 3rd grades want to be thinner.
- 80% of children who are ten years old are afraid of being fat.
- 51% of 9 and 10 year old girls feel better about themselves if they are on a diet.
- 90% of all girls ages 3-11 have a Barbie doll, an early role model with a figure that is unattainable in real life.
- 47% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported wanting to lose weight because of magazine pictures.
- 69% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported that magazine pictures influenced their idea of a perfect body shape.
- In a study of children aged 8-10, approximately 50 per cent of girls said they were unhappy with their size.
- Anorexia is the 3rd most common chronic illness among adolescents.
Yeah! Those damn children need to take personal responsibility instead of acting all helpless like the media has any influence over them! What a fucking copout!
This thread - and your point above about social norms - makes me think of the thread awhile back about women not shaving their legs. Did you see all the insults hurled at the women who choose to break this norm? You'd think they weren't going to be allowed into society!
I love how people have failed to acknowledge the very real consequences, in the form of discrimination, for women who fall outside of the standard of beauty in this society. Studies have shown that women who are heavier get passed over for jobs & promotions, get paid less on average, etc. than their thinner counterparts. No pressure to conform though! :roll:
in my opinion, it's quite naive to say that eating disorders, negative body image and even men's perceptions of women exist inside the vacuum of personal choice, outside of any societal influence. whomever brought up the point that our modern ideal of female beauty contradicts earlier eras' views on female beauty is right on. does anyone really think eating disorders and negative body image were such a problem in past ages, when female beauty was seen in different terms?
i think beauty is almost completely a socially defined concept, and to act like peoples' perceptions exist outside their larger culture is wrong.
She can correct me if I'm wrong, but I still think you're misunderstanding the OP's statement. She said, "The inability to see the truth is what the media (mostly men) have done to the female body image." The MEDIA is the subject of this sentence - the group that is being accused of creating the inability to see the truth about the female body image - NOT men. Just because the media is controlled by "mostly men" does not mean the terms "media" and "men" are synonymous. So, in fact, the OP's statement was not at all a blanket statement about men.
I love how you shift the responsibility to the media and the parents but think there's no responsibility to be found with statements like the posts in question. It's so predictable. (Didn't I actually just make this prediction last night?) So, just so I'm clear, are you really saying that posts like the ones above play absolutely no role in this problem?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/vp/ ... 3#37344813
So, when it comes to the problems of suicide, anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorders, and negative self-image in girls, please help me identify the posts in this thread that have been useful in any way in solving these problems? Do you really think the "women should look like stick figures" comments are useful?? Are there any posts with anyone taking any personal responsibility to do their part to not increase these problems? Or are people primarily just saying it's the fault of the media and the parents but they intend to continue making the comments that are part of the problem?
So the sole purpose of this thread and these posts is to solve the gigantic issue that is negative body image?
I don't think anyone has said she's anorexic. Anorexia is a behavior disorder, not a weight, and no one knows what she does except for her. I think people - me, at least - have said this body type is not the one that should be upheld as the ideal image for all the little girls to try to attain.
As for the stats you posted...while I agree that some of those figures are heartbreaking (I have a daughter in gr.1 and it kills me to think that her peers are already having self-image issues)...but...childhood obesity is a big problem too. I have to wonder what percentage of the kids who wish they were thinner, wish so because they're obese.
Previewing my post, I saw your last couple of posts....what do YOU think would be helpful in solving the problem? no one expressing what they find attractive? The media is a basically a mirror of societal norms, no?
1. Despite your (and others') problem with the phrasing of her point, the message was clear and valid if you ask me. The message I heard was that many men don't have a true understanding of what it's like to be a woman in this society and many of the posts in this thread support that idea.
2. Jealous?? You boys need to lay off. It's so sad how, when women are trying to make intelligent points about relevant topic like healthy body image, y'all are so quick to dismiss dissenting opinions as jealously. Give me a break! I read her comment as one of concern for the personhood of the woman in the picture and women everywhere, who deserve to be loved even when we have incontinence - but the message in photos such as those is that we won't be. Seriously - do you think the men here will give two shits about this woman once her body no longer fits their ideal of sexy?
3. If the media had no influence of people, it would not be a multi-bilion dollar industry.
If all you got out of six pages is "women should look like stick figures" comments, then I don't know what to tell you.
And I must have missed the sticky on this forum that said every comment in a thread has to be useful in solving massive societal problems to be of any value.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I believe there's data to dispute your theory, but I'll have to look for it later.
There's a difference between falling in love with a wonderful woman despite the fact that she's a model and holding up her body (and nothing else) as a shrine for men to lust after and women to spend their lives striving for. I believe our boys in the band understand this difference and use their music to express it.
But you yourself posted that "- 42% of elementary school students between the 1st and 3rd grades want to be thinner.". And if something like one third of all children are overweight how much crossover there is between the actual overweight kids and the ones who want to be thinner? And if a kid actually is overweight, which is also a health problem, is it really a bad thing that they want to lose weight?
There's also data to prove your point that as the "ideal" body image has gotten smaller, the prevalence of eating disorders has drastically increased, as have the bank accounts of the "beauty" industry.
Well you'd have to ask the OP, but I don't think the purpose of the thread was to reenforce the problem.
I didn't say all the comments said women should look like stick figures or that all comments had to be useful. I just asked you to point out the useful posts, since you were arguing with the assertion that most of the posts weren't useful.
you are right, I confused the "moslty men" comment with her comment further down that read:
"Why are some "men" like this? Especially a Pearl Jam fan? I guess they don't hear the music."
...it just sounds like she is lumping all of our responses into a heap like someone else also said.
I never shifted any responsibility. I was just highlighting what seems to be a major contributor to some womens personal perceived body images. I never said that those types of posts don't contribute to the problem. I just don't see how men making comments about a beautiful woman should give other women self esteem issues. I do see why posts like this play a role in the problem, but I don't understand it. I am merely saying that if I see abeautiful woman walking down the street and say to my friend, "Hey, she's beautiful", how is that any different from posting a picture of a beautiful woman? if it's my human nature to be attracted to someone like Marissa Miller, should I keep my mouth shut, never say anything? I'm trying to point out that it's all how you perceive things and yourself. If you compare yourself to others too much, you're going to be in trouble. (especially about things like objective beauty)
Yes, jealousy. My point is that if we are talking about ideal womens body (what does that even mean? are we talking healthy? sexy? tall? Athletic?) and someone responded with a picture of a woman and she replies with:
I see what I see...
AGAIN, my point is that many women are so competitive with each other! most men dont care what the next guy looks like. This is just a theory/stereotype but: Why don't more men suffer from these diseases? men arent as jealous of each other.
But western cultures also have the highest rates of morbid obesity so how exactly does the media come into play there I wonder?