Something to ponder: The Ideal Woman's Body

Pepe Silvia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl-7-wjQO1k

yes she is, if ya don't believe me take a look at the one you're with

_

decides2dream wrote:

to be 100% fair, studies have shown that both men AND women who are heavier get passed over in comparison to their thinner counterparts.

Yeah, I know. I didn't meant to suggest otherwise. It's just that this thread seems to be about women (which I think is appropriate since 90% of eating disorders occur in women), so that's what I'm talking about.

someone earlier, i think dan, mentioned how men's mags have pics of sexy women on the covers, and women's mags have pics of the same women. food for thought eh? the mental dynamics of men and women are quite different in that regard, overall.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mental dynamics".

just about everything within a society is based on a perceived and accepted cultural norm; whether murder is acceptable or not...or whether a woman shaves her legs or not. (and no, i am not comparing the 2....

:shock:

however, i also must admit, that photo in post 2, she looks damn healthy to me, BMI or not. do you actually know she weighs 110 pounds? i have no idea. either way, she has a really nice amount of muscle on her, sure sign of good health. and, amazingly, i DO know women around her size and just as large-breasted...so while not the norm, not impossible. the tan, yea...agree 100% with you on tho. thing is tho, if she's a surfer, even with consistent use of a sunblock, she'd probably still get tan.

Yes, she's 5' 8" and weighs 110 pounds. I looked it up. (You didn't think I'd post a statistic without looking it up, did you? :geek: )

I don't believe I said SHE wasn't healthy or HER breasts weren't natural. (But she'd have to always surf naked to get a tan like that.) My point was that this body image is not natural for the vast majority of the women in the world, and therefore shouldn't be held up as the standard against which to measure other women's bodies or the goal women should attempt to reach.

VINNY GOOMBA

Women: Any size, shape, color, or flavor here. I draw the line at age... I like to keep it legal

Now onto the subject of who is "beautiful"...
Believe it or not, and I know this to be true of most of my friends-- a pretty and distinguishable face, no matter the body, is far more likely to earn a girl the title of "beautiful" over her body. Butterfaces are NEVER referred to as beautiful. Every other adjective will inevitably be used to describe a girl with a nice body (whatever THAT IS to the onlooker), but "beautiful" always starts with a girl's face. Fellas: back me up, or refute me. Ladies: have you ever noticed this assertion from any of your guy friends?

Back to the ideal body debate-- Bodies like Marissa Miller's are fairly "new" in the grand scheme of things (500 thousand years of humanity)-- kind of like the idea of women keeping things a bit more trim below the belt line, which apparently didn't start happening till sometime after 1990. Could it not be the bright-and-shiny-newness of it all that makes this current trend towards model bodies attractive? It sure is not easy to look like Marissa Miller-- just like it's not easy to hit like A-Rod. These sort of things garner attention whether they are good for the person getting the attention or for society as a whole. And yes, "the media" is always at fault, yet everyone keeps patronizing it. Unlike insurance, oil, banking, GMO food, obscene "defense" spending, it has not been actually FORCED on the populous yet. True, "the media" is everywhere, but so are other pests-- like mosquitos, just swat this bullshit away if you don't like it. Teach your kids to do the same.

If the media is the problem, just add them to the list of umpteen million things to which they perpetuate the problem further. Let's turn off our TVs, and boycott the newspapers and magazines for a month, and we'll see who's still arguing at the end of the day.

_

Drowned Out wrote:

I have to wonder what percentage of the kids who wish they were thinner, wish so because they're obese.

I haven't seen the appropriate kind of study to really answer that question, so this data will have to do (unless you have something better):

- The prevalence of obesity among children aged 6 to 11 years increased from 6.5% in 1980 to 19.6% in 2008. (CDC)

- The prevalence of obesity among adolescents aged 12 to 19 years increased from 5.0% to 18.1%. (CDC)

- 42% of 1st-3rd grade girls want to be thinner (Collins, 1991).

- 81% of 10 year olds are afraid of being fat (Mellin et al., 1991).

- 51% of 9 and 10 year old girl feel better about themselves if they are on a diet (Mellin et al., 1991).

- In a 2003 review of the literature, Hoek and van Hoeken found 40% of newly identified cases of anorexia are in girls 15-19 years old.

- It is estimated that currently 11% of high school students may have a diagnosable eating disorder.

- Anorexia is the 3rd most common chronic illness among adolescents

- 95% of those who have eating disorders are between the ages of 12 and 25

- 50% of girls between the ages of 11 and 13 see themselves as overweight

- 80% of 13-year-olds have attempted to lose weight

- In 1970 the average age of a girl who started dieting was 14; by 1990 the average dieting age fell to 8.

- Young girls are more afraid of becoming fat than they are of nuclear war, cancer, or losing their parents.

- 47% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported wanting to lose weight because of magazine pictures[2].

- 69% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported that magazine pictures influenced their idea of a perfect body shape[3].

- In a survey of girls 9 and 10 years old, 40% have tried to lose weight, according to an ongoing study funded by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute.

- In a study on fifth graders, 10 year old girls and boys told researchers they were dissatisfied with their own bodies after watching a music video by Britney Spears or a clip from the TV show "Friends".

- A 1996 study found that the amount of time an adolescent watches soaps, movies and music videos is associated with their degree of body dissatisfaction and desire to be thin.

- One study reports that at age thirteen, 53% of American girls are "unhappy with their bodies." This grows to 78% by the time girls reach seventeen.

- Fifteen percent of young women have substantially disordered eating attitudes and behaviors.

- Eating disorders usually start in the teens but may begin as early as age 8.

Sorry to be so disorganized with my data presentation, but I'm tired so I'm just copying whatever childhood data I have on hand.

Anyway, based on this information, it seems clear to me that MANY more children are concerned about their body image than are actually fat, and that their ideas about what their body image is and what it should be are not generally based on realistic health concerns.

Previewing my post, I saw your last couple of posts....what do YOU think would be helpful in solving the problem? no one expressing what they find attractive? The media is a basically a mirror of societal norms, no?

I think our society is structured so as to send the message to people - primarily girls and women - that they are meant to be sexual objects and their bodies are not good enough. I think this message is impossible to ignore. I think it serves a huge capitalist/corporate interest. And I think the status quo is upheld by everyone who participates in it, whether intentionally or not.

I think, as individuals, we ALL have to take responsibility for our role in this and actively work to change the status quo. I think this means demanding more realistic images from the media. I think it means not throwing our money into all the industries - diet, cosmetics, magazine, clothes, etc. - which prey on us and our children for their own profit. I think it means changing the cultural norms to more realistic and healthy body ideals - and DEMONSTRATING respect for ALL body types and for people regardless of their bodies. I think everyone has a responsibility to understand the issues and their role in solving the problem. And, regarding the role of men, I think they have a LOT of power to create this change and should own it and be committed to it instead of (wittingly or unwittingly) perpetuating the problem.

Does that answer your question?

JonnyPistachio

scb wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I never said that those types of posts don't contribute to the problem. I just don't see how men making comments about a beautiful woman should give other women self esteem issues. I do see why posts like this play a role in the problem, but I don't understand it.

These statements seem to contradict each other. :?

I am merely saying that if I see abeautiful woman walking down the street and say to my friend, "Hey, she's beautiful", how is that any different from posting a picture of a beautiful woman? if it's my human nature to be attracted to someone like Marissa Miller, should I keep my mouth shut, never say anything?

Let me ask you this: If your idea of beauty was tall, blonde, blue-eyed, giant breasts, and unnaturally thin, and your daughter was short, brunette, brown-eyed, small-breasted (or likely to be when she got them), and heavy, would you tell her "SHE'S beautiful!" every single time you saw a woman who looked like Marissa Miller and never when you saw a woman who looked like your daughter? Would you want your daughter's elementary school to hold up this picture and tell your daughter that this is what beauty and desirability look like? Would you like the boys in her life to do that?

I think many people (men and women) speak out of both sides of their mouths when they tell their daughters to disregard others' ideals of beauty but then reinforce the stereotypes and write it off as human nature or personal preference.

Also, as someone else has already pointed out, it is not human nature to think Marissa Miller has the perfect body. People learn to be attracted to this through socialization and then go on to perpetuate that socialization in others. If we lived in the times of Marilyn Monroe or later, very few men - and certainly not society and media as a whole - would have thought Marissa Miller's body was ideal.

I wasnt clear in my point. it's actually simpler than what I said. I see why it is a problem to other people, but I cannot understand it personally because I cant associate with it because i've never been one to compare myself to anyone.
And I never said I would perpetuate thes things like gawking over a woman. That point was theoretical - i dont' do that. I just said I dont think there's anything wrong iwith saying something is beautiful. If I see a beautiful sunset, I might comment i might not. I will raise my daughter or son to appreciate beauty and not compare themselvesto others, but to just be comfortable in their own skin and know that they are beautiful inside and out.

JonnyPistachio

scb wrote:

Instead of trying to understand what she means & feels, you are simply projecting your ideas about jealousy and competition onto her and all women and then complaining that women are jealous and competitive! I don't think there's any point in even having this conversation if your objective is to stereotype and judge.

I think the male/female ratio of eating disorders and body image issues is directly proportionate to the male/female ratio of media images and social norms that portray them as sexual objects, that uphold certain body types as ideal, that send the message that your body is not good enough, etc.

You are so far off on this one it’s not even funny. I tried to understand what she meant and felt. And I thought I was getting it until she posted this:

BhagavadGita wrote:

Maybe the OP was a video about suicide.
Did anyone ever consider that? NO.
It's always dicks, nuts and butt jokes on this serious forum.
Frankly I dislike posting in here because someone always comes along and fucks up your point.

Blow your brains out on here and I will be glad to serve you back what you give. Women are raped in so many ways. and unless you have a vagina. shut the hell up.

Except for SCB, this thread did exactly what i knew it would do. NOthing useful. Just opposition to a point very much missed.

p.s. the "woman" in the blue bathing suit looks like she pissed her pants. some day she will have to wear panty liners for bladder control, how sexy :?: will she be then?

I feel she’s acting close minded. Then she used childish remarks that came across as jealous. Not to mention how she twisted blackredyellows words around and told him that suicide will find him for ignoring it!!! At that point, I gave up trying to understand her.

In addition, you seem to be getting defensive because you are saying that I’m complaining about it. Wrong. Who’s judging who here?I’m merely bringing up a point. I could care less…the competition thing is 100% accurate. Maybe I just wasn’t articulate enough to convey my point – it’s as simple as this stereotype (I know sterotypes are bad, but just trying to make a point): women are more competitive with each other than men when it comes to beauty.

I don’t stereotype, I can identify when someone falls under a stereotype. And you might look back and see that she deleted all her comments. Too bad for her that al lthose comments are preserved in the quotes where people were so flabbergasted at her saying “shut the hell up if you don’t have a vagina. WTF?!

I honestly think this is an interesting debate. And we will seem to go in circles. What % of the population suffers from anorexia? What % is obese? What arre the REAL problems? Maybe it’s that the average American watches 4 hrs of tv a night? (I made that # up, but I’ll bet it is close)

BhagavadGita

Read a book called Ishamel....apparently no one has, even though Ed recommended it.
That is why this thread is so full of puss.

We are assumng our tiny view of the world is the way it's suppose to be.

if we are all cavemen again, that woman would be hairy as hell and i'd expect nothing but ridicule towards her from the present time.

When the shit does hit the fan and our culture collapes, Daniel Quinn will cry a tear because he warned us but

his wisdom about culture will have fallen on deaf ears.

VINNY GOOMBA

BhagavadGita wrote:

Read a book called Ishamel....apparently no one has, even though Ed recommended it.
That is why this thread is so full of puss.

We are assumng our tiny view of the world is the way it's suppose to be.

if we are all cavemen again, that woman would be hairy as hell and i'd expect nothing but ridicule towards her from the present time.

When the shit does hit the fan and our culture collapes, Daniel Quinn will cry a tear because he warned us but

his wisdom about culture will have fallen on deaf ears.

Has anyone in this thread made any valid points from your perspective?

JonnyPistachio

BhagavadGita wrote:

Read a book called Ishamel....apparently no one has, even though Ed recommended it.
That is why this thread is so full of puss.

We are assumng our tiny view of the world is the way it's suppose to be.

if we are all cavemen again, that woman would be hairy as hell and i'd expect nothing but ridicule towards her from the present time.

When the shit does hit the fan and our culture collapes, Daniel Quinn will cry a tear because he warned us but

his wisdom about culture will have fallen on deaf ears.

I have read Ismael, and it was an excellent book. I wish a lot of things were like the caveman days. There was no msg, fake sugar, preservatives, or razors! I'll bet ALL people were healthier than many people today...slim and athletic too. just guessing.

honestly though, I dont think my tiny view of the world is the way things are supposed to be. I wish a lot of things were different. I don't participate in the purchase of excessive beauty products (just razors, shampoo, soap, deodorant), and I dont buy the mags or watch the tube.

JonnyPistachio

scb wrote:

I don't believe I said SHE wasn't healthy or HER breasts weren't natural. (But she'd have to always surf naked to get a tan like that.) My point was that this body image is not natural for the vast majority of the women in the world, and therefore shouldn't be held up as the standard against which to measure other women's bodies or the goal women should attempt to reach.

What I also find perplexing is that ONE person posted a picture, and suddenly Marissa Miller is being discussed as the standard. I think if we are realistic and have common sense, we will know that this is not the standard. Obviously, the majority of people you see on the street are not ideal either since a huge % is overweight. The fact of the matter is -- a large % of us could use some altering to our lifestyles for health reasons.

By the way, I never even got a chance to personally answer the original question. I do feel like I found the ideal body when I met my girlfriend. She treats it like a temple and she ALWAYS feels good. She does yoga and exercises regularly. She eats an extremely well balanced diet and VERY rarely eats sweets. She always has energy and loves the outdoors. Is she skinny? Yes. Her body is beautiful. Now, granted I know that some people might have the exact same lifestyle and not be skinny, but as long as they are healthy and feel great, then they have the ideal body.

Also, I like what you said here scb:

scb wrote:

I think our society is structured so as to send the message to people - primarily girls and women - that they are meant to be sexual objects and their bodies are not good enough. I think this message is impossible to ignore. I think it serves a huge capitalist/corporate interest. And I think the status quo is upheld by everyone who participates in it, whether intentionally or not.

I think, as individuals, we ALL have to take responsibility for our role in this and actively work to change the status quo. I think this means demanding more realistic images from the media. I think it means not throwing our money into all the industries - diet, cosmetics, magazine, clothes, etc. - which prey on us and our children for their own profit. I think it means changing the cultural norms to more realistic and healthy body ideals - and DEMONSTRATING respect for ALL body types and for people regardless of their bodies. I think everyone has a responsibility to understand the issues and their role in solving the problem. And, regarding the role of men, I think they have a LOT of power to create this change and should own it and be committed to it instead of (wittingly or unwittingly) perpetuating the problem.

The funny thing is, I agree with you, and I don’t see those things as impossible to ignore either. Sadly, because of $$$, I don’t see it going away though. I do see them as objects of adversity for our children to overcome. I think one of the most difficult things besides making sure our kids are confident and appreciative of all body types, is making sure our kids stay healthy by not letting them watch too much TV, have tons of ice cream, candy bars, sodas, and all the other shit that seems to be forced on them.

blackredyellow

BhagavadGita wrote:

Read a book called Ishamel....apparently no one has, even though Ed recommended it.
That is why this thread is so full of puss.

We are assumng our tiny view of the world is the way it's suppose to be.

if we are all cavemen again, that woman would be hairy as hell and i'd expect nothing but ridicule towards her from the present time.

When the shit does hit the fan and our culture collapes, Daniel Quinn will cry a tear because he warned us but

his wisdom about culture will have fallen on deaf ears.

more assumptions...

I've read it, and really enjoyed it and it was thought provoking. I like The Story of B a little better, but Ishamel gives you a different point of view on the world.

Godfather.

lets get back to the topic,

The Ideal Woman's Body.....I'm guessing something for the spank bank right ? so howa bout....Pamala Anderson's body ? or Carmen Electra's body ?
ain't that a pare to ponder. coulden't help it..nobody else said anything.

Godfather.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Godfather. wrote:

lets get back to the topic,

The Ideal Woman's Body.....I'm guessing something for the spank bank right ? so howa bout....Pamala Anderson's body ? or Carmen Electra's body ?
ain't that a pare to ponder. coulden't help it..nobody else said anything.

Godfather.

You do not have a vagina....
Shut the HELL UP!!!!!!

cincybearcat

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

lets get back to the topic,

The Ideal Woman's Body.....I'm guessing something for the spank bank right ? so howa bout....Pamala Anderson's body ? or Carmen Electra's body ?
ain't that a pare to ponder. coulden't help it..nobody else said anything.

Godfather.

You do not have a vagina....
Shut the HELL UP!!!!!!

You don't know that...quit ASSuming!!!!!

SPEEDY MCCREADY

cincybearcat wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

lets get back to the topic,

The Ideal Woman's Body.....I'm guessing something for the spank bank right ? so howa bout....Pamala Anderson's body ? or Carmen Electra's body ?
ain't that a pare to ponder. coulden't help it..nobody else said anything.

Godfather.

You do not have a vagina....
Shut the HELL UP!!!!!!

You don't know that...quit ASSuming!!!!!

You have a good point...
I do not know Godfather....

But I dont have a vagina....So I guess I will shut the hell up......

Better yet, for the people in this thread who DO have vaginas.....

What will it take for YOU to shut the hell up???? heheheheheheheh

decides2dream

BhagavadGita wrote:

Read a book called Ishamel....apparently no one has, even though Ed recommended it.
That is why this thread is so full of puss.

We are assumng our tiny view of the world is the way it's suppose to be.

if we are all cavemen again, that woman would be hairy as hell and i'd expect nothing but ridicule towards her from the present time.

When the shit does hit the fan and our culture collapes, Daniel Quinn will cry a tear because he warned us but

his wisdom about culture will have fallen on deaf ears.

i've read it.
wasn't all that revolutionary thinking in my mind, at all, really.
his ideas are not new, he just presented them in a very novel way.
that said....all around the world, there are cultures with vastly different views on beauty than our own, and so it goes. it is a part of what makes each culture a bit different. it also is not necessarily a bad thing. it can be, but it does not have to be.

cincybearcat

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

You do not have a vagina....
Shut the HELL UP!!!!!!

You don't know that...quit ASSuming!!!!!

You have a good point...
I do not know Godfather....

But I dont have a vagina....So I guess I will shut the hell up......

Better yet, for the people in this thread who DO have vaginas.....

What will it take for YOU to shut the hell up???? heheheheheheheh

I might forgive your hatred of Cincy after that classic post!

decides2dream

seriously scb, i am a bit disappointed. taking apart the post, and a wee bit out of context...you usually don't do that.


firstly, the fact that you mentioned only women and not men...well it shows a skewed view, b/c not everyone may know that, so you only presented it as a heavy woman's issue, rather than both, thus why i pointed it out.

mental dynamics....men and women seem to think differently.

as to your :shock: face...seriously. if you don't get it. fine. cultural norms are defined by their culture. what is deemed acceptable, desirable, appropriate....whether ideals of beauty or laws for beahavior...ALL are based on the overall desires of the culture they stem from. these things also change in time, as we see throughout history. that was my point.

especially since you left out the following within the quote:

"being heavier and untanned used to be the 'ideal'...since it signified you had plenty to eat and did not have to work out in the sun. nowadays, being thin and tanned (tho that is changing) is the ideal....b/c it is seen as having the leisure time and $$$ to spend working out and spending time in the sun. so all are a reflection on MONEY and wealth, and the precieved, and visible, displays of such wealth."


which further illustrated the cultural norm point i was making.
also, women with unshaven legs are very much accepted, right now, in many parts of the world...even within the western world. austria for example. in the states, not so much. one is not right or wrong, just ideas of 'beauty'...and non are static forever. if one chooses to buck the trend, good for them if it makes them happy, but one should not be offended if one chooses to buck said cultural, present ideals.


as to beauty, well......i don't think 'average' is every held up as an 'ideal' for beauty. has it ever? if beauty was so run-of-the-mill, it wouldn't be so admired, no? kinda like genius in a way. if it was so attainable and most had it...we wouldn't put it on a pedestal to admire. i agree there is WAY too much focus on externals and on some unattainables, no denying that...i also just don't blame the media for all the issues out there, and certainly not all on men either. that's all.

scb wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

to be 100% fair, studies have shown that both men AND women who are heavier get passed over in comparison to their thinner counterparts.

Yeah, I know. I didn't meant to suggest otherwise. It's just that this thread seems to be about women (which I think is appropriate since 90% of eating disorders occur in women), so that's what I'm talking about.

someone earlier, i think dan, mentioned how men's mags have pics of sexy women on the covers, and women's mags have pics of the same women. food for thought eh? the mental dynamics of men and women are quite different in that regard, overall.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mental dynamics".

just about everything within a society is based on a perceived and accepted cultural norm; whether murder is acceptable or not...or whether a woman shaves her legs or not. (and no, i am not comparing the 2....

:shock:

however, i also must admit, that photo in post 2, she looks damn healthy to me, BMI or not. do you actually know she weighs 110 pounds? i have no idea. either way, she has a really nice amount of muscle on her, sure sign of good health. and, amazingly, i DO know women around her size and just as large-breasted...so while not the norm, not impossible. the tan, yea...agree 100% with you on tho. thing is tho, if she's a surfer, even with consistent use of a sunblock, she'd probably still get tan.

Yes, she's 5' 8" and weighs 110 pounds. I looked it up. (You didn't think I'd post a statistic without looking it up, did you? :geek: )

I don't believe I said SHE wasn't healthy or HER breasts weren't natural. (But she'd have to always surf naked to get a tan like that.) My point was that this body image is not natural for the vast majority of the women in the world, and therefore shouldn't be held up as the standard against which to measure other women's bodies or the goal women should attempt to reach.

decides2dream

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Women: Any size, shape, color, or flavor here. I draw the line at age... I like to keep it legal

Now onto the subject of who is "beautiful"...
Believe it or not, and I know this to be true of most of my friends-- a pretty and distinguishable face, no matter the body, is far more likely to earn a girl the title of "beautiful" over her body. Butterfaces are NEVER referred to as beautiful. Every other adjective will inevitably be used to describe a girl with a nice body (whatever THAT IS to the onlooker), but "beautiful" always starts with a girl's face. Fellas: back me up, or refute me. Ladies: have you ever noticed this assertion from any of your guy friends?

Back to the ideal body debate-- Bodies like Marissa Miller's are fairly "new" in the grand scheme of things (500 thousand years of humanity)-- kind of like the idea of women keeping things a bit more trim below the belt line, which apparently didn't start happening till sometime after 1990. Could it not be the bright-and-shiny-newness of it all that makes this current trend towards model bodies attractive? It sure is not easy to look like Marissa Miller-- just like it's not easy to hit like A-Rod. These sort of things garner attention whether they are good for the person getting the attention or for society as a whole. And yes, "the media" is always at fault, yet everyone keeps patronizing it. Unlike insurance, oil, banking, GMO food, obscene "defense" spending, it has not been actually FORCED on the populous yet. True, "the media" is everywhere, but so are other pests-- like mosquitos, just swat this bullshit away if you don't like it. Teach your kids to do the same.

If the media is the problem, just add them to the list of umpteen million things to which they perpetuate the problem further. Let's turn off our TVs, and boycott the newspapers and magazines for a month, and we'll see who's still arguing at the end of the day.

excellent post.
i'm not a guy, but gotta agree.
and hey, when it comes to beautiful faces...sure one can add make-up, but really, unless undergoing surgery, not much you can do about it, eh? let's face it, there ARE ideals of beauty. they do change, sometimes dramatically, throughout human history, but they have always existed. some are based on biological imperatives, even subconsciously, just like all animals size each other up when choosing an ideal mate.

beauty, talent, genius...none are easy to garner, thus why they are all held up and admired. we have issues with girls making themselves ill with anorexia, and we also have a major obesity problem...so i personally don't think the media can be blamed for ALL things, tho you bet, plays a major role. i just don't know...i was bombarded with the media as a teen, maybe not as much as today, but while sure, it definitely influenced my ideas of beauty i am sure...it also didn't seem to affect how i felt about myself. my family and my own mind did the bulk of that. i also take no issue whatsoever with my husband admiring many of the very beautiful women in the world, whether out on the street or in magazines, movies, internet, whatever. body image and self confidence don't all have to quake in fear of such things.

Godfather.

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

lets get back to the topic,

The Ideal Woman's Body.....I'm guessing something for the spank bank right ? so howa bout....Pamala Anderson's body ? or Carmen Electra's body ?
ain't that a pare to ponder. coulden't help it..nobody else said anything.

Godfather.

You do not have a vagina....
Shut the HELL UP!!!!!!

LOL!!!! if I did I'd be rich

Godfather.