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Your opinion about Immigration.

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  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,993
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Why are stories about “locked up deodorant”, “needles in parks”, “prescription drugs found in back yards and cars crashing through fences into houses”, “homeless people pissing in subways,” or the ultimate crime committers, “scooter central” in the “Your Opinion About Immigration” thread?

    Nevermind, I know why.
    Its because you seemingly randomly posted without without it being a response to someone:
    "Buh buh buh immigrants!

    From a Lincoln Project twat that micky posted:

    3. In every year of the Biden administration, violent crime has dropped. According to the latest estimates, 2023 is on track to have one of the lowest violent crime rates in half a century. America is safer today than when Biden took office."

    Bigger question is why bring up crime, then ask why are people talking about crime in an immigration thread, then imply its because of race.

    "Who did a march madness bracket?"
    Someone responds.
    "Why are you talking about march madness in the immigration thread?"
    In the context of our friend Sheky and their faux news fauxrage stories of Venezuelan gangs and Tempo’s snark post about “moving on from guns”, coupled with the knowledge that less crime is committed by immigrants than native born, and that overall, crime is down if you care to look past the rag NY Post or the faux outrage channels. Context, you know? Which was then followed by Tempo’s seeming disbelief at an immigrant getting off on a gun crime and the slippery slope of all the benefits of being a citizen being bestowed upon immigrants, legal and otherwise. Again, context.

    Regarding your NCAA brackets analogy, it’d be relevant if that kid from Oakland who hit 10 three pointers was an immigrant, legal or otherwise. So, to me, stories about deodorant, needles in parks, prescription drugs in back yards, cars crashing through fences, homeless pissing in subways, etc., in the absence of knowing or posting that they were caused by immigrants, legal or otherwise, aren’t in context.

    I guess this is what happens when your world view, general you, is shaped by the faux news fauxrage machine and the NY Post. You, again general you, can post every ill that ever happens in this thread because it must be the immigrants dragging America down, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Where did you move to? Nowhere in America is safe.
    Tempo made that gun comment after you brought of crime., so it had nothing to do with you bringing up crime.
    You are correct, context does matter. When you posted about crime, no one that day or the day before had discussed crime. The discussion was the census. Then out of nowhere you post about crime. And when people respond, you imply we're racists for talking about crime. There was no context to your post, If you were responding to someone from several days and pages earlier, then it would be helpful to quote them. But it appears you were not, just making another random post, then accusing someone else for bringing up the topic when they respond. 
    Unless, what else would you mean by "never mind, I know why"?
    Or maybe follow along and read our friend Sheky’s posts?

    Ive  been around here long enough to read what “stories” get posted and in what context.

    So, if the fear of immigration isn’t crime related, what is it related to? You claimed that “responsible” gun owners want “responsible” gun laws in this thread in reference to Tempo’s perplexity of the immigrant not being charged with a gun crime. Do your or his voting record reflect that? Did you contact your representative about the immigration bill that wasn’t allowed a vote? I remember you shared a letter and response from a Congress person but don’t recall the issue. Tempo gladly donates to the NRA which is hilarious to me in the context of his perplexity.

    So, despite evidence to the contrary, why are these seemingly random “crimes” being posted in the Opinion About Immigration thread? The deodorant story I took as a reference to the shoplifting crime sprees that has certain posters concerned and yet again, it’s difficult to quantify because the industry uses the term “shrink” as it relates to loss but includes shoplifting, employee theft, inventory issues and distribution mishaps. But again, it’s down slightly from the previous year and the incidents played on a loop by faux for weeks are committed by professional theft rings.

    But sure, blame immigrants and immigration or infer it. It’s an old trope.
    If you are responding to someone or something that was posted days earlier and you are worried about context, it helps to quote them. Because just posting about crime when no one has mentioned crime for days and the current conversation is something completely unrelated, the only logical assumption is you are just posting to rile up the topic with your "but but but....." comments. The topic of crime and immigration had long been over before you brought it up, then subtly accuse us of racism for responding. 

     I can't speak for others, but I don't relate those types of crimes with illegal immigrants. I've witnessed shoplifting more in the last couples years than I have probably the rest of my life, and I can't say from my experience either I could blame a single racial or ethnic group or immigration status.

    I also don't think an illegal immigrant should own a firearm. Not just because they are illegal, but because I do believe in certain checks when purchasing a gun that are not possible if you are undocumented. 
    Then you’re for amending 2A, eh?
    Why would you need to? The 2a doesn't guarantee the right without background checks.
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Why are stories about “locked up deodorant”, “needles in parks”, “prescription drugs found in back yards and cars crashing through fences into houses”, “homeless people pissing in subways,” or the ultimate crime committers, “scooter central” in the “Your Opinion About Immigration” thread?

    Nevermind, I know why.
    Its because you seemingly randomly posted without without it being a response to someone:
    "Buh buh buh immigrants!

    From a Lincoln Project twat that micky posted:

    3. In every year of the Biden administration, violent crime has dropped. According to the latest estimates, 2023 is on track to have one of the lowest violent crime rates in half a century. America is safer today than when Biden took office."

    Bigger question is why bring up crime, then ask why are people talking about crime in an immigration thread, then imply its because of race.

    "Who did a march madness bracket?"
    Someone responds.
    "Why are you talking about march madness in the immigration thread?"
    In the context of our friend Sheky and their faux news fauxrage stories of Venezuelan gangs and Tempo’s snark post about “moving on from guns”, coupled with the knowledge that less crime is committed by immigrants than native born, and that overall, crime is down if you care to look past the rag NY Post or the faux outrage channels. Context, you know? Which was then followed by Tempo’s seeming disbelief at an immigrant getting off on a gun crime and the slippery slope of all the benefits of being a citizen being bestowed upon immigrants, legal and otherwise. Again, context.

    Regarding your NCAA brackets analogy, it’d be relevant if that kid from Oakland who hit 10 three pointers was an immigrant, legal or otherwise. So, to me, stories about deodorant, needles in parks, prescription drugs in back yards, cars crashing through fences, homeless pissing in subways, etc., in the absence of knowing or posting that they were caused by immigrants, legal or otherwise, aren’t in context.

    I guess this is what happens when your world view, general you, is shaped by the faux news fauxrage machine and the NY Post. You, again general you, can post every ill that ever happens in this thread because it must be the immigrants dragging America down, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Where did you move to? Nowhere in America is safe.
    Tempo made that gun comment after you brought of crime., so it had nothing to do with you bringing up crime.
    You are correct, context does matter. When you posted about crime, no one that day or the day before had discussed crime. The discussion was the census. Then out of nowhere you post about crime. And when people respond, you imply we're racists for talking about crime. There was no context to your post, If you were responding to someone from several days and pages earlier, then it would be helpful to quote them. But it appears you were not, just making another random post, then accusing someone else for bringing up the topic when they respond. 
    Unless, what else would you mean by "never mind, I know why"?
    Or maybe follow along and read our friend Sheky’s posts?

    Ive  been around here long enough to read what “stories” get posted and in what context.

    So, if the fear of immigration isn’t crime related, what is it related to? You claimed that “responsible” gun owners want “responsible” gun laws in this thread in reference to Tempo’s perplexity of the immigrant not being charged with a gun crime. Do your or his voting record reflect that? Did you contact your representative about the immigration bill that wasn’t allowed a vote? I remember you shared a letter and response from a Congress person but don’t recall the issue. Tempo gladly donates to the NRA which is hilarious to me in the context of his perplexity.

    So, despite evidence to the contrary, why are these seemingly random “crimes” being posted in the Opinion About Immigration thread? The deodorant story I took as a reference to the shoplifting crime sprees that has certain posters concerned and yet again, it’s difficult to quantify because the industry uses the term “shrink” as it relates to loss but includes shoplifting, employee theft, inventory issues and distribution mishaps. But again, it’s down slightly from the previous year and the incidents played on a loop by faux for weeks are committed by professional theft rings.

    But sure, blame immigrants and immigration or infer it. It’s an old trope.
    If you are responding to someone or something that was posted days earlier and you are worried about context, it helps to quote them. Because just posting about crime when no one has mentioned crime for days and the current conversation is something completely unrelated, the only logical assumption is you are just posting to rile up the topic with your "but but but....." comments. The topic of crime and immigration had long been over before you brought it up, then subtly accuse us of racism for responding. 

     I can't speak for others, but I don't relate those types of crimes with illegal immigrants. I've witnessed shoplifting more in the last couples years than I have probably the rest of my life, and I can't say from my experience either I could blame a single racial or ethnic group or immigration status.

    I also don't think an illegal immigrant should own a firearm. Not just because they are illegal, but because I do believe in certain checks when purchasing a gun that are not possible if you are undocumented. 
    Then you’re for amending 2A, eh?
    Why would you need to? The 2a doesn't guarantee the right without background checks.
    Sorry it’s difficult for you to follow a conversation over three or four days on the same page of a thread. I’ll be sure to quote posters to make it easier for you.

    The constitution does not refer to “citizens.” It refers to the “people.” The judge’s ruling has the potential to reach SCOTUS, from a “person” with standing. If SCOTUS rules the way you’d, general you, expect, it will toss the ability of states to regulate firearms, something they’ve already done previously on behest of the NRA and the gun lobby. But because this is “the other,” I expect them to rule differently, exposing their hypocrisy and political agenda implementation. So, if you only want “citizens” to have legal access to firearms or “immigrants” charged with a crime for violating the law, you’ll have to amend 2A to reflect the right of “citizens” to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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  • Options
    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,975
    And the circle continues.
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,993
    edited March 22
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Why are stories about “locked up deodorant”, “needles in parks”, “prescription drugs found in back yards and cars crashing through fences into houses”, “homeless people pissing in subways,” or the ultimate crime committers, “scooter central” in the “Your Opinion About Immigration” thread?

    Nevermind, I know why.
    Its because you seemingly randomly posted without without it being a response to someone:
    "Buh buh buh immigrants!

    From a Lincoln Project twat that micky posted:

    3. In every year of the Biden administration, violent crime has dropped. According to the latest estimates, 2023 is on track to have one of the lowest violent crime rates in half a century. America is safer today than when Biden took office."

    Bigger question is why bring up crime, then ask why are people talking about crime in an immigration thread, then imply its because of race.

    "Who did a march madness bracket?"
    Someone responds.
    "Why are you talking about march madness in the immigration thread?"
    In the context of our friend Sheky and their faux news fauxrage stories of Venezuelan gangs and Tempo’s snark post about “moving on from guns”, coupled with the knowledge that less crime is committed by immigrants than native born, and that overall, crime is down if you care to look past the rag NY Post or the faux outrage channels. Context, you know? Which was then followed by Tempo’s seeming disbelief at an immigrant getting off on a gun crime and the slippery slope of all the benefits of being a citizen being bestowed upon immigrants, legal and otherwise. Again, context.

    Regarding your NCAA brackets analogy, it’d be relevant if that kid from Oakland who hit 10 three pointers was an immigrant, legal or otherwise. So, to me, stories about deodorant, needles in parks, prescription drugs in back yards, cars crashing through fences, homeless pissing in subways, etc., in the absence of knowing or posting that they were caused by immigrants, legal or otherwise, aren’t in context.

    I guess this is what happens when your world view, general you, is shaped by the faux news fauxrage machine and the NY Post. You, again general you, can post every ill that ever happens in this thread because it must be the immigrants dragging America down, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Where did you move to? Nowhere in America is safe.
    Tempo made that gun comment after you brought of crime., so it had nothing to do with you bringing up crime.
    You are correct, context does matter. When you posted about crime, no one that day or the day before had discussed crime. The discussion was the census. Then out of nowhere you post about crime. And when people respond, you imply we're racists for talking about crime. There was no context to your post, If you were responding to someone from several days and pages earlier, then it would be helpful to quote them. But it appears you were not, just making another random post, then accusing someone else for bringing up the topic when they respond. 
    Unless, what else would you mean by "never mind, I know why"?
    Or maybe follow along and read our friend Sheky’s posts?

    Ive  been around here long enough to read what “stories” get posted and in what context.

    So, if the fear of immigration isn’t crime related, what is it related to? You claimed that “responsible” gun owners want “responsible” gun laws in this thread in reference to Tempo’s perplexity of the immigrant not being charged with a gun crime. Do your or his voting record reflect that? Did you contact your representative about the immigration bill that wasn’t allowed a vote? I remember you shared a letter and response from a Congress person but don’t recall the issue. Tempo gladly donates to the NRA which is hilarious to me in the context of his perplexity.

    So, despite evidence to the contrary, why are these seemingly random “crimes” being posted in the Opinion About Immigration thread? The deodorant story I took as a reference to the shoplifting crime sprees that has certain posters concerned and yet again, it’s difficult to quantify because the industry uses the term “shrink” as it relates to loss but includes shoplifting, employee theft, inventory issues and distribution mishaps. But again, it’s down slightly from the previous year and the incidents played on a loop by faux for weeks are committed by professional theft rings.

    But sure, blame immigrants and immigration or infer it. It’s an old trope.
    If you are responding to someone or something that was posted days earlier and you are worried about context, it helps to quote them. Because just posting about crime when no one has mentioned crime for days and the current conversation is something completely unrelated, the only logical assumption is you are just posting to rile up the topic with your "but but but....." comments. The topic of crime and immigration had long been over before you brought it up, then subtly accuse us of racism for responding. 

     I can't speak for others, but I don't relate those types of crimes with illegal immigrants. I've witnessed shoplifting more in the last couples years than I have probably the rest of my life, and I can't say from my experience either I could blame a single racial or ethnic group or immigration status.

    I also don't think an illegal immigrant should own a firearm. Not just because they are illegal, but because I do believe in certain checks when purchasing a gun that are not possible if you are undocumented. 
    Sorry it’s difficult for you to follow a conversation over three or four days on the same page of a thread. I’ll be sure to quote posters to make it easier for you.
    Given your history of randomly bringing up someone's emails or laptop as your sarcastic reply to a valid point when no one has mentioned either for months, its not unreasonable to think you're doing the same thing with crime when no one has talked about crime for several days.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Options
    nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 7,711
    I couldn’t think of a bigger waste of time than to engage with this poster. Wow. 
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,993
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Why are stories about “locked up deodorant”, “needles in parks”, “prescription drugs found in back yards and cars crashing through fences into houses”, “homeless people pissing in subways,” or the ultimate crime committers, “scooter central” in the “Your Opinion About Immigration” thread?

    Nevermind, I know why.
    Its because you seemingly randomly posted without without it being a response to someone:
    "Buh buh buh immigrants!

    From a Lincoln Project twat that micky posted:

    3. In every year of the Biden administration, violent crime has dropped. According to the latest estimates, 2023 is on track to have one of the lowest violent crime rates in half a century. America is safer today than when Biden took office."

    Bigger question is why bring up crime, then ask why are people talking about crime in an immigration thread, then imply its because of race.

    "Who did a march madness bracket?"
    Someone responds.
    "Why are you talking about march madness in the immigration thread?"
    In the context of our friend Sheky and their faux news fauxrage stories of Venezuelan gangs and Tempo’s snark post about “moving on from guns”, coupled with the knowledge that less crime is committed by immigrants than native born, and that overall, crime is down if you care to look past the rag NY Post or the faux outrage channels. Context, you know? Which was then followed by Tempo’s seeming disbelief at an immigrant getting off on a gun crime and the slippery slope of all the benefits of being a citizen being bestowed upon immigrants, legal and otherwise. Again, context.

    Regarding your NCAA brackets analogy, it’d be relevant if that kid from Oakland who hit 10 three pointers was an immigrant, legal or otherwise. So, to me, stories about deodorant, needles in parks, prescription drugs in back yards, cars crashing through fences, homeless pissing in subways, etc., in the absence of knowing or posting that they were caused by immigrants, legal or otherwise, aren’t in context.

    I guess this is what happens when your world view, general you, is shaped by the faux news fauxrage machine and the NY Post. You, again general you, can post every ill that ever happens in this thread because it must be the immigrants dragging America down, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Where did you move to? Nowhere in America is safe.
    Tempo made that gun comment after you brought of crime., so it had nothing to do with you bringing up crime.
    You are correct, context does matter. When you posted about crime, no one that day or the day before had discussed crime. The discussion was the census. Then out of nowhere you post about crime. And when people respond, you imply we're racists for talking about crime. There was no context to your post, If you were responding to someone from several days and pages earlier, then it would be helpful to quote them. But it appears you were not, just making another random post, then accusing someone else for bringing up the topic when they respond. 
    Unless, what else would you mean by "never mind, I know why"?
    Or maybe follow along and read our friend Sheky’s posts?

    Ive  been around here long enough to read what “stories” get posted and in what context.

    So, if the fear of immigration isn’t crime related, what is it related to? You claimed that “responsible” gun owners want “responsible” gun laws in this thread in reference to Tempo’s perplexity of the immigrant not being charged with a gun crime. Do your or his voting record reflect that? Did you contact your representative about the immigration bill that wasn’t allowed a vote? I remember you shared a letter and response from a Congress person but don’t recall the issue. Tempo gladly donates to the NRA which is hilarious to me in the context of his perplexity.

    So, despite evidence to the contrary, why are these seemingly random “crimes” being posted in the Opinion About Immigration thread? The deodorant story I took as a reference to the shoplifting crime sprees that has certain posters concerned and yet again, it’s difficult to quantify because the industry uses the term “shrink” as it relates to loss but includes shoplifting, employee theft, inventory issues and distribution mishaps. But again, it’s down slightly from the previous year and the incidents played on a loop by faux for weeks are committed by professional theft rings.

    But sure, blame immigrants and immigration or infer it. It’s an old trope.
    If you are responding to someone or something that was posted days earlier and you are worried about context, it helps to quote them. Because just posting about crime when no one has mentioned crime for days and the current conversation is something completely unrelated, the only logical assumption is you are just posting to rile up the topic with your "but but but....." comments. The topic of crime and immigration had long been over before you brought it up, then subtly accuse us of racism for responding. 

     I can't speak for others, but I don't relate those types of crimes with illegal immigrants. I've witnessed shoplifting more in the last couples years than I have probably the rest of my life, and I can't say from my experience either I could blame a single racial or ethnic group or immigration status.

    I also don't think an illegal immigrant should own a firearm. Not just because they are illegal, but because I do believe in certain checks when purchasing a gun that are not possible if you are undocumented. 
    Then you’re for amending 2A, eh?
    Why would you need to? The 2a doesn't guarantee the right without background checks.
    Sorry it’s difficult for you to follow a conversation over three or four days on the same page of a thread. I’ll be sure to quote posters to make it easier for you.

    The constitution does not refer to “citizens.” It refers to the “people.” The judge’s ruling has the potential to reach SCOTUS, from a “person” with standing. If SCOTUS rules the way you’d, general you, expect, it will toss the ability of states to regulate firearms, something they’ve already done previously on behest of the NRA and the gun lobby. But because this is “the other,” I expect them to rule differently, exposing their hypocrisy and political agenda implementation. So, if you only want “citizens” to have legal access to firearms or “immigrants” charged with a crime for violating the law, you’ll have to amend 2A to reflect the right of “citizens” to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    I can't recall in my lifetime where a state lost the ability to regulate a firearm.
    And the states ability to do that is not connected to the definition of "people." Whether it applies to all people, just citizens, or anyone here legally, that has no merit on a state to put reasonable restrictions on firearms. They are two separate arguments. 
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,993
    edited March 22
    nicknyr15 said:
    I couldn’t think of a bigger waste of time than to engage with this poster. Wow. 
    You apparently don't have staff meetings at your work.  I envy you. 
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Why are stories about “locked up deodorant”, “needles in parks”, “prescription drugs found in back yards and cars crashing through fences into houses”, “homeless people pissing in subways,” or the ultimate crime committers, “scooter central” in the “Your Opinion About Immigration” thread?

    Nevermind, I know why.
    Its because you seemingly randomly posted without without it being a response to someone:
    "Buh buh buh immigrants!

    From a Lincoln Project twat that micky posted:

    3. In every year of the Biden administration, violent crime has dropped. According to the latest estimates, 2023 is on track to have one of the lowest violent crime rates in half a century. America is safer today than when Biden took office."

    Bigger question is why bring up crime, then ask why are people talking about crime in an immigration thread, then imply its because of race.

    "Who did a march madness bracket?"
    Someone responds.
    "Why are you talking about march madness in the immigration thread?"
    In the context of our friend Sheky and their faux news fauxrage stories of Venezuelan gangs and Tempo’s snark post about “moving on from guns”, coupled with the knowledge that less crime is committed by immigrants than native born, and that overall, crime is down if you care to look past the rag NY Post or the faux outrage channels. Context, you know? Which was then followed by Tempo’s seeming disbelief at an immigrant getting off on a gun crime and the slippery slope of all the benefits of being a citizen being bestowed upon immigrants, legal and otherwise. Again, context.

    Regarding your NCAA brackets analogy, it’d be relevant if that kid from Oakland who hit 10 three pointers was an immigrant, legal or otherwise. So, to me, stories about deodorant, needles in parks, prescription drugs in back yards, cars crashing through fences, homeless pissing in subways, etc., in the absence of knowing or posting that they were caused by immigrants, legal or otherwise, aren’t in context.

    I guess this is what happens when your world view, general you, is shaped by the faux news fauxrage machine and the NY Post. You, again general you, can post every ill that ever happens in this thread because it must be the immigrants dragging America down, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Where did you move to? Nowhere in America is safe.
    Tempo made that gun comment after you brought of crime., so it had nothing to do with you bringing up crime.
    You are correct, context does matter. When you posted about crime, no one that day or the day before had discussed crime. The discussion was the census. Then out of nowhere you post about crime. And when people respond, you imply we're racists for talking about crime. There was no context to your post, If you were responding to someone from several days and pages earlier, then it would be helpful to quote them. But it appears you were not, just making another random post, then accusing someone else for bringing up the topic when they respond. 
    Unless, what else would you mean by "never mind, I know why"?
    Or maybe follow along and read our friend Sheky’s posts?

    Ive  been around here long enough to read what “stories” get posted and in what context.

    So, if the fear of immigration isn’t crime related, what is it related to? You claimed that “responsible” gun owners want “responsible” gun laws in this thread in reference to Tempo’s perplexity of the immigrant not being charged with a gun crime. Do your or his voting record reflect that? Did you contact your representative about the immigration bill that wasn’t allowed a vote? I remember you shared a letter and response from a Congress person but don’t recall the issue. Tempo gladly donates to the NRA which is hilarious to me in the context of his perplexity.

    So, despite evidence to the contrary, why are these seemingly random “crimes” being posted in the Opinion About Immigration thread? The deodorant story I took as a reference to the shoplifting crime sprees that has certain posters concerned and yet again, it’s difficult to quantify because the industry uses the term “shrink” as it relates to loss but includes shoplifting, employee theft, inventory issues and distribution mishaps. But again, it’s down slightly from the previous year and the incidents played on a loop by faux for weeks are committed by professional theft rings.

    But sure, blame immigrants and immigration or infer it. It’s an old trope.
    If you are responding to someone or something that was posted days earlier and you are worried about context, it helps to quote them. Because just posting about crime when no one has mentioned crime for days and the current conversation is something completely unrelated, the only logical assumption is you are just posting to rile up the topic with your "but but but....." comments. The topic of crime and immigration had long been over before you brought it up, then subtly accuse us of racism for responding. 

     I can't speak for others, but I don't relate those types of crimes with illegal immigrants. I've witnessed shoplifting more in the last couples years than I have probably the rest of my life, and I can't say from my experience either I could blame a single racial or ethnic group or immigration status.

    I also don't think an illegal immigrant should own a firearm. Not just because they are illegal, but because I do believe in certain checks when purchasing a gun that are not possible if you are undocumented. 
    Then you’re for amending 2A, eh?
    Why would you need to? The 2a doesn't guarantee the right without background checks.
    Sorry it’s difficult for you to follow a conversation over three or four days on the same page of a thread. I’ll be sure to quote posters to make it easier for you.

    The constitution does not refer to “citizens.” It refers to the “people.” The judge’s ruling has the potential to reach SCOTUS, from a “person” with standing. If SCOTUS rules the way you’d, general you, expect, it will toss the ability of states to regulate firearms, something they’ve already done previously on behest of the NRA and the gun lobby. But because this is “the other,” I expect them to rule differently, exposing their hypocrisy and political agenda implementation. So, if you only want “citizens” to have legal access to firearms or “immigrants” charged with a crime for violating the law, you’ll have to amend 2A to reflect the right of “citizens” to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    I can't recall in my lifetime where a state lost the ability to regulate a firearm.
    And the states ability to do that is not connected to the definition of "people." Whether it applies to all people, just citizens, or anyone here legally, that has no merit on a state to put reasonable restrictions on firearms. They are two separate arguments. 
    Then what was Heller about? You brought up that the illegal immigrant wasn’t able to follow the law as it related to possession because they were not a citizen and what that requires. Hence, why if you want the firearms laws enforced the way you want, have to be a citizen, you’ll need to amend 2A. Wasn’t Tempo’s concern about the law being that of you have to have a FOID card to possess in Illinois? And the immigrant didn’t? The judge tossed the charge.

    The Court ruled that the Second Amendment was incorporated by the due process section of the Fourteenth Amendment and individuals were therefore granted a constitutional right to keep firearms in their homes for self-protection. This right, the Court stated, was greater than the states' power to restrict it.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    Don’t forget to use the quote feature so everyone can follow along. Or not.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Why are stories about “locked up deodorant”, “needles in parks”, “prescription drugs found in back yards and cars crashing through fences into houses”, “homeless people pissing in subways,” or the ultimate crime committers, “scooter central” in the “Your Opinion About Immigration” thread?

    Nevermind, I know why.
    Its because you seemingly randomly posted without without it being a response to someone:
    "Buh buh buh immigrants!

    From a Lincoln Project twat that micky posted:

    3. In every year of the Biden administration, violent crime has dropped. According to the latest estimates, 2023 is on track to have one of the lowest violent crime rates in half a century. America is safer today than when Biden took office."

    Bigger question is why bring up crime, then ask why are people talking about crime in an immigration thread, then imply its because of race.

    "Who did a march madness bracket?"
    Someone responds.
    "Why are you talking about march madness in the immigration thread?"
    In the context of our friend Sheky and their faux news fauxrage stories of Venezuelan gangs and Tempo’s snark post about “moving on from guns”, coupled with the knowledge that less crime is committed by immigrants than native born, and that overall, crime is down if you care to look past the rag NY Post or the faux outrage channels. Context, you know? Which was then followed by Tempo’s seeming disbelief at an immigrant getting off on a gun crime and the slippery slope of all the benefits of being a citizen being bestowed upon immigrants, legal and otherwise. Again, context.

    Regarding your NCAA brackets analogy, it’d be relevant if that kid from Oakland who hit 10 three pointers was an immigrant, legal or otherwise. So, to me, stories about deodorant, needles in parks, prescription drugs in back yards, cars crashing through fences, homeless pissing in subways, etc., in the absence of knowing or posting that they were caused by immigrants, legal or otherwise, aren’t in context.

    I guess this is what happens when your world view, general you, is shaped by the faux news fauxrage machine and the NY Post. You, again general you, can post every ill that ever happens in this thread because it must be the immigrants dragging America down, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Where did you move to? Nowhere in America is safe.
    Tempo made that gun comment after you brought of crime., so it had nothing to do with you bringing up crime.
    You are correct, context does matter. When you posted about crime, no one that day or the day before had discussed crime. The discussion was the census. Then out of nowhere you post about crime. And when people respond, you imply we're racists for talking about crime. There was no context to your post, If you were responding to someone from several days and pages earlier, then it would be helpful to quote them. But it appears you were not, just making another random post, then accusing someone else for bringing up the topic when they respond. 
    Unless, what else would you mean by "never mind, I know why"?
    Or maybe follow along and read our friend Sheky’s posts?

    Ive  been around here long enough to read what “stories” get posted and in what context.

    So, if the fear of immigration isn’t crime related, what is it related to? You claimed that “responsible” gun owners want “responsible” gun laws in this thread in reference to Tempo’s perplexity of the immigrant not being charged with a gun crime. Do your or his voting record reflect that? Did you contact your representative about the immigration bill that wasn’t allowed a vote? I remember you shared a letter and response from a Congress person but don’t recall the issue. Tempo gladly donates to the NRA which is hilarious to me in the context of his perplexity.

    So, despite evidence to the contrary, why are these seemingly random “crimes” being posted in the Opinion About Immigration thread? The deodorant story I took as a reference to the shoplifting crime sprees that has certain posters concerned and yet again, it’s difficult to quantify because the industry uses the term “shrink” as it relates to loss but includes shoplifting, employee theft, inventory issues and distribution mishaps. But again, it’s down slightly from the previous year and the incidents played on a loop by faux for weeks are committed by professional theft rings.

    But sure, blame immigrants and immigration or infer it. It’s an old trope.
    If you are responding to someone or something that was posted days earlier and you are worried about context, it helps to quote them. Because just posting about crime when no one has mentioned crime for days and the current conversation is something completely unrelated, the only logical assumption is you are just posting to rile up the topic with your "but but but....." comments. The topic of crime and immigration had long been over before you brought it up, then subtly accuse us of racism for responding. 

     I can't speak for others, but I don't relate those types of crimes with illegal immigrants. I've witnessed shoplifting more in the last couples years than I have probably the rest of my life, and I can't say from my experience either I could blame a single racial or ethnic group or immigration status.

    I also don't think an illegal immigrant should own a firearm. Not just because they are illegal, but because I do believe in certain checks when purchasing a gun that are not possible if you are undocumented. 
    Sorry it’s difficult for you to follow a conversation over three or four days on the same page of a thread. I’ll be sure to quote posters to make it easier for you.
    Given your history of randomly bringing up someone's emails or laptop as your sarcastic reply to a valid point when no one has mentioned either for months, its not unreasonable to think you're doing the same thing with crime when no one has talked about crime for several days.
    To a “valid point?” Seriously? Let me know when Hunter or Brandon are indicted or impeached for those “valid points” you infer upon emails and laptops.

    Did I do this correctly, quoting?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    Be prepared for a spike in crime. You know, just because. Sorry I didn’t quote anyone and hope everyone can follow.

    The legislation would increase funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to support about 42,000 beds in detention facilities, and it would fund 22,000 Border Patrol agents. It would also cut U.S. contributions by 20 percent to nongovernmental organizations that provide services for new arrivals to the country. Lawmakers who want to restrict immigration argue that the nonprofit groups incentivize illegal crossings.


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,993
    Don’t forget to use the quote feature so everyone can follow along. Or not.
    It’s not necessary if you are responding within several days, or if you don’t just randomly throw out “but but emails….” as a typical response, then it’s obvious that you’re actually participating in a discussion.
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,993
    edited March 23
    Be prepared for a spike in crime. You know, just because. Sorry I didn’t quote anyone and hope everyone can follow.

    The legislation would increase funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to support about 42,000 beds in detention facilities, and it would fund 22,000 Border Patrol agents. It would also cut U.S. contributions by 20 percent to nongovernmental organizations that provide services for new arrivals to the country. Lawmakers who want to restrict immigration argue that the nonprofit groups incentivize illegal crossings.


    Just admit you brought up crime already and move on. You clearly brought the topic back up after the conversation was over and done, no one was discussing it, then accused people of being racist for talking about it. Sorry I called you out. Time to move on. 
    If you call me racist I’m going to call you on your BS.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
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    nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 7,711
    mace1229 said:
    Be prepared for a spike in crime. You know, just because. Sorry I didn’t quote anyone and hope everyone can follow.

    The legislation would increase funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to support about 42,000 beds in detention facilities, and it would fund 22,000 Border Patrol agents. It would also cut U.S. contributions by 20 percent to nongovernmental organizations that provide services for new arrivals to the country. Lawmakers who want to restrict immigration argue that the nonprofit groups incentivize illegal crossings.


    Just admit you brought up crime already and move on. You clearly brought the topic back up after the conversation was over and done, then accused people of being racist. Sorry I called you out for it. Time to move on.
    Have you ever seen this person apologize or admit when they were wrong? 
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    I think what I think. Thread integrity and context.

    Crime

    As Biden recently recalled: “In 2020, before I took office, the prior administration oversaw the largest increase in murders ever recorded.” By contrast, an FBI data report last week shows, as NBC News noted, “the new fourth-quarter numbers showed a 13% decline in murder in 2023 from 2022, a 6% decline in reported violent crime and a 4% decline in reported property crime.” Analysts suspect that “the biggest factor behind the drop in crime,” the NBC report said, “may simply be the resumption of anti-crime initiatives by local governments and courts that had stopped during the pandemic.” In large part, the American Rescue Plan made that possible with a massive $15 billion infusion to keep police on payroll and to fund a raft of safety initiatives.

    “In May 2021, the Justice Department launched our violent crime reduction strategy aimed at addressing the spike in violent crime that occurred during the pandemic,” Attorney General Merrick Garland pointed out in a statement last week. He argued that the department worked “in close partnership with police departments and communities across the country to go after the recidivists and gangs that are responsible for the greatest violence; to seize illegal guns and deadly drugs; to make critical investments in hiring more law enforcement officers; and to fund evidence-based, community violence intervention initiatives.”

    Trump’s “migrant crime” claim has been debunked repeatedly. In New York, for example, “police data indicate that there has been no surge in crime since April 2022, when Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas started sending buses of migrants to New York to protest the federal government’s border policy,” the New York Times reported last month. And “many major categories of crime — including rape, murder and shootings — have decreased, according to an analysis of the New York Police Department’s month-by-month statistics since April 2022.”

    Nationwide, “the most common finding across all these different kinds of studies is that immigration to an area is either not associated with crime in that area, or is negatively associated with crime in that area,” criminologist Charis Kubrin told CNN last month. “Meaning more immigration equals less crime.”


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/24/trump-biden-2024-better-off-four-years-ago/
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,975
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Be prepared for a spike in crime. You know, just because. Sorry I didn’t quote anyone and hope everyone can follow.

    The legislation would increase funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to support about 42,000 beds in detention facilities, and it would fund 22,000 Border Patrol agents. It would also cut U.S. contributions by 20 percent to nongovernmental organizations that provide services for new arrivals to the country. Lawmakers who want to restrict immigration argue that the nonprofit groups incentivize illegal crossings.


    Just admit you brought up crime already and move on. You clearly brought the topic back up after the conversation was over and done, then accused people of being racist. Sorry I called you out for it. Time to move on.
    Have you ever seen this person apologize or admit when they were wrong? 
    lol hahahahahahahahah!!!
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,688
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Be prepared for a spike in crime. You know, just because. Sorry I didn’t quote anyone and hope everyone can follow.

    The legislation would increase funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to support about 42,000 beds in detention facilities, and it would fund 22,000 Border Patrol agents. It would also cut U.S. contributions by 20 percent to nongovernmental organizations that provide services for new arrivals to the country. Lawmakers who want to restrict immigration argue that the nonprofit groups incentivize illegal crossings.


    Just admit you brought up crime already and move on. You clearly brought the topic back up after the conversation was over and done, then accused people of being racist. Sorry I called you out for it. Time to move on.
    Have you ever seen this person apologize or admit when they were wrong? 

    once
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,975
    mickeyrat said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Be prepared for a spike in crime. You know, just because. Sorry I didn’t quote anyone and hope everyone can follow.

    The legislation would increase funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to support about 42,000 beds in detention facilities, and it would fund 22,000 Border Patrol agents. It would also cut U.S. contributions by 20 percent to nongovernmental organizations that provide services for new arrivals to the country. Lawmakers who want to restrict immigration argue that the nonprofit groups incentivize illegal crossings.


    Just admit you brought up crime already and move on. You clearly brought the topic back up after the conversation was over and done, then accused people of being racist. Sorry I called you out for it. Time to move on.
    Have you ever seen this person apologize or admit when they were wrong? 

    once
    Lies.  all lies, lol.
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    Yuk, yuk, yuk, hey moe! Hey moe! Wise guy, eh? Why I oughta…

    Records confirm Trump’s mother-in-law came to U.S. through process he derided

    Melania Trump sponsored her mother to immigrate to the United States through a family-based process that former president Donald Trump aggressively sought to end, according to federal immigration records released Monday.

    The records detail for the first time the full path that the former first lady’s mother, Amalija Knavs, followed from Slovenia to the United States — and how the Trump administration’s policies would have made that far more difficult for others. Knavs died inJanuary at age 78.

    Trump is the likely Republican candidate for president in the 2024 race against President Biden, a Democrat. The Trump campaign declined to comment through a spokeswoman.

    Melania Trump used a legal pathway that her husband and his top advisers had repeatedly disparaged as “chain migration,”the right of U.S. citizens to bring their parents to the United States.

    Federal law since 1965 has said U.S. citizens may apply to bring minor children and parents to join them in the United States without having to wait a long time for a visa. Citizens may sponsor siblings and adult children, but they typically wait longer for visas.

    During his presidency, Trump endorsed a bill called the RAISE Actthat would have limited priority sponsorship to the spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens, taking parents off the fast-track list.

    “The Democrats have been told, and fully understand, that there can be no DACA without the desperately needed WALL at the Southern Border and an END to the horrible Chain Migration & ridiculous Lottery System of Immigration etc.,” Trump tweeted on Dec. 29, 2017. “We must protect our Country at all cost!”

    Trump favored implementing a Canadian-style point-based merit system to prioritize skilled workers, which also could have affected Knavs.

    On her 2009 immigrant visa application, Knavs said she graduated from high school in 1964 and attended the College for Fashion Design in Slovenia until 1966, though it did not say if she obtained a diploma. She married in 1967.

    By the time Knavs applied for an immigrant visa, records show she was fluent in Slovenian but “learning English.” Her citizenship application says she retired in 1998.

    Michael Wildes, Knavs’s immigration lawyer, declined to comment on her immigration file in a telephone interview Monday, saying such records are typically confidential. The Washington Post requested the records from the Department of Homeland Security after Knavs’s death, when privacy protections are diminished.

    The 165-page immigration file released Monday is heavily redacted in some parts, but it confirms that Knavs was sponsored by an adult child for a green card, and it lists the financial sponsor of the parent as “Melania Trump.”

    Wildes, a Democrat, praised family-based immigration as part of a long tradition in the United States and called Trump’s criticism of that system “some of the silly politics of the day.”

    He said the Knavses “reveled in becoming citizens in this country,” and that Melania Trump wanted to ensure that her parents were “taken care of” and that they could travel freely to the United States to care for the Trumps’ son, Barron.

    Wildes has said that Melania Trump arrived in the United States from Slovenia in 1996 for modeling work and obtained a green card around 2001 based on her “extraordinary ability” as a model.

    Records show that Knavs was a regular visitor to the United States after her daughter moved to this country and became a permanent resident.

    Melania Trump married Donald Trump in 2005 and had their son the following year. She said she also became a citizen in 2006.

    She applied to sponsor her mother for legal permanent residency, known as a green card, in 2008, the records show, and signed an affidavit the following year pledging to support her mother financially.

    Knavs became a legal permanent resident, one step before U.S. citizenship, on March 16, 2010.

    Green-card holders may apply for U.S. citizenship after five years. But records show Knavs waited longer.

    She applied in August 2017, a few months after Trump took office and as he was criticizing “chain migration.”

    In May 2018, Knavs appeared in New York for an interview and citizenship test, which involves questions in English and a test on U.S. civics. She correctly answered questions such as the name of the U.S. national anthem (“The Star-Spangled Banner”) and the ocean on the west coast of the United States (Pacific).

    Asked “What is the ‘rule of law?’” she gave no answer.

    Wildes has said the family received no special treatment. Records show Knavs filled out a citizenship application, answering questions about whether she was associated with the Communist Party (no) and whether she would bear arms to defend the United States (yes). She paid the $725 application fee and said she was living at the time in Trump Tower in New York.

    Knavs took the oath of citizenship with her husband Viktor — whose immigration records are not public — on Aug. 9, 2018, in New York, shortly after one of the worst debacles of Trump’s presidency, when his administration separated migrant parents from their children at the southern border without a plan to reunite them.

    Melania Trump garnered attention in June 2018 for visiting a children’s shelter on the borderwearing a green jacket with the words on the back, “I really don’t care, do u?”

    Wildes had earlier confirmed that Viktor and Amalija Knavs, as well as their other daughter, Ines, who is Barron’s godmother, came to the United States legally with Melania Trump’s help, according to “The Art of Her Deal,” a biography of Melania Trump by Post reporter Mary Jordan.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2024/03/25/trump-melania-parents-chain-migration/

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    And Brandon is the senile one?

    “Unlike the Democrats, who are KILLING SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE by allowing the INVASION OF THE MIGRANTS, I will NOT, under any circumstance, allow either of these two precious GEMS to be even touched under a Trump Administration. Biden is killing them both with the INVASION, while at the same time destroying our Country!”


    — Donald Trump, in a social media post, March 21

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576

    Who are the people presumed dead in the Baltimore bridge collapse?

    The victims are six construction workers who were on the Key Bridge when it collapsed; it’s unclear whether others were killed

    The six construction workers who were on the Key Bridge in Baltimore when it collapsed are presumed dead, authorities said Tuesday evening, ending a day-long rescue mission in cold and murky waters.

    Officials said Tuesday that the six victims, all employees of Brawner Builders, a general contractor, were repairing masonry and potholes on the bridge when the 985-foot freighter lost power and crashed into the structure, which rose 185 feet above the Patapsco River at its peak height. Among those presumed deceased are Miguel Luna, who has worked for the construction company for about 15 years, his family said; and a 26-year-old and a 35-year-old from Guatemala, the country’s Foreign Ministry said.

    Gustavo Torres, the executive director of the Latino and immigrant organization Casa, said Luna was a father of three from El Salvador and “a longtime member of our Casa family, adding an even deeper layer of sorrow to this already grievous situation.”

    Marvin Luna, son of Miguel Luna, said he knew his father was on the Key Bridge overnight but did not know it had collapsed until friends called him and said, “The bridge is … gone.”

    Marvin Luna then called his father, but no one answered the phone. On Tuesday evening, he was at home in Glen Burnie, Md., desperate for news about his dad.

    We’re okay right now because we don’t know yet, nothing about my dad,” Marvin Luna said. “But we still wait.”

    Around him, relatives wailed.

    As the hours passed Tuesday, with the ship still lodged between pieces of the disintegrated bridge, community members and officials alike grew increasingly anxious for news of victims or survivors. Guatemalan and Salvadoran consulates publicized emergency hotlines on Facebook. Politicians, including President Biden and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, pledged support for families still waiting on news.

    Meanwhile, in a Royal Farms convenience store parking lot near Fort Armistead Park, Jesus Campos, an employee at Brawner Builders, paced, waiting for news about his colleagues.

    Campos said in Spanish that working on the bridge is harrowing. Construction crews are continually worried about speeding motorists, and the bridge “moves a lot” because of its design and engineering. Last year, six road construction workers were killedwhen a motorist barreled into them along a busy highway in Baltimore County.

    “This catastrophe has already disproportionately impacted our city’s immigrant community, one that often toils in demanding and dangerous jobs to the benefit of all who call Baltimore home,” Krish O’Mara Vignarajah, president and CEO of Global Refuge, a Baltimore-based immigrant services nonprofit, said in a statement.

    Campos said his colleagues had been on a meal break, sitting in or near their vehicles, when the Dali slammed into the bridge.

    Campos said he was not working Monday night but was roused from bed about 5 a.m. Tuesday by a colleague. The co-worker told him two people had been rescued from the water but that six others were missing.

    “I’m very sad right now,” Campos said. “These are my co-workers and friends.”

    As the sun set Tuesday, officials and residents gathered to pray inside a church in Turner Station, a neighborhood near the foot of where the Key Bridge once stood.

    Throughout the hour-long service, clergy and elected officials tried to stay upbeat, discussing the power of community in times of tragedy. But with hope running dry that anyone else might be rescued from the waters, the Rev. Ako Walker of Sacred Heart of Jesus Church in Baltimore offered prayers in Spanish, honoring the missing workers, who are said to be immigrants from Latin America.

    “Te pedimos por las victimas de este tragedia. Te pedimos por sus familias.”

    “We pray for the victims of this tragedy. We pray for their families.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/03/26/victims-baltimore-key-bridge-collapse/

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    Some of us get it. From Letter From An American:

    In the past days, we have learned that the six maintenance workers killed when the bridge collapsed were all immigrants, natives of Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Around 39% of the workforce in the construction industry around Baltimore and Washington, D.C., about 130,000 people, are immigrants, Scott Dance and María Luisa Paúl reported in the Washington Post yesterday. 

    Some of the men were undocumented, and all of them were family men who sent money back to their home countries, as well. From Honduras, the nephew of one of the men killed told the Associated Press, “The kind of work he did is what people born in the U.S. won’t do. People like him travel there with a dream. They don’t want to break anything or take anything.”  
     
    In the Philadelphia Inquirer today, journalist Will Bunch castigated the right-wing lawmakers and pundits who have whipped up native-born Americans over immigration, calling immigrants sex traffickers and fentanyl dealers, and even “animals.” Bunch illustrated that the reality of what was happening on the Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed creates an opportunity to reframe the immigration debate in the United States.

    Last month, Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that immigration is a key reason that the United States experienced greater economic growth than any other nation In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The surge of immigration that began in 2022 brought to the U.S. working-age people who, Director Phill Swagel of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office wrote, are expected to make the U.S. gross domestic product about $7 trillion larger over the ten years from 2023 to 2034 than it would have been otherwise. Those workers will account for about $1 trillion dollars in revenues.

    The workers who died in the bridge collapse on Tuesday “were not ‘poisoning the blood of our country,’” Will Bunch wrote, quoting Trump; “they were replenishing it…. They may have been born all over the continent, but when these men plunged into our waters on Tuesday, they died as Americans.”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    LBCeddieLBCeddie Posts: 91
    Please step away from the internet, sir.  
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    lindamarie73lindamarie73 Posts: 344
    LBCeddie said:
    Please step away from the internet, sir.  
    Come on man…it’s like AIR to some of these people.   Can’t exist w/o it!! 
    For a laugh check out what Peter Buttigieg had to say about some bridges….no wonder that goof is so adored around these parts.  

  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,680
    edited March 31
    Some of us get it. From Letter From An American:

    In the past days, we have learned that the six maintenance workers killed when the bridge collapsed were all immigrants, natives of Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Around 39% of the workforce in the construction industry around Baltimore and Washington, D.C., about 130,000 people, are immigrants, Scott Dance and María Luisa Paúl reported in the Washington Post yesterday. 

    Some of the men were undocumented, and all of them were family men who sent money back to their home countries, as well. From Honduras, the nephew of one of the men killed told the Associated Press, “The kind of work he did is what people born in the U.S. won’t do. People like him travel there with a dream. They don’t want to break anything or take anything.”  
     
    In the Philadelphia Inquirer today, journalist Will Bunch castigated the right-wing lawmakers and pundits who have whipped up native-born Americans over immigration, calling immigrants sex traffickers and fentanyl dealers, and even “animals.” Bunch illustrated that the reality of what was happening on the Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed creates an opportunity to reframe the immigration debate in the United States.

    Last month, Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that immigration is a key reason that the United States experienced greater economic growth than any other nation In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The surge of immigration that began in 2022 brought to the U.S. working-age people who, Director Phill Swagel of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office wrote, are expected to make the U.S. gross domestic product about $7 trillion larger over the ten years from 2023 to 2034 than it would have been otherwise. Those workers will account for about $1 trillion dollars in revenues.

    The workers who died in the bridge collapse on Tuesday “were not ‘poisoning the blood of our country,’” Will Bunch wrote, quoting Trump; “they were replenishing it…. They may have been born all over the continent, but when these men plunged into our waters on Tuesday, they died as Americans.”

    Huge amounts of work in this country would not get done if it were not for immigrants, particularly those from Mexico, Central, and South America.  There is a simple reason for this- too many Americans believe it is beneath them to do hard, physical, manual labor.  If every young person took their turn at doing this kind of work, there would not be the need for so many migrant workers.  But the need is there and these people are willing to do it and we would do well to respect, compensate, and thank them for that work.
    And if anyone is wondering, yes, I've done my time at manual labor.  I eventually did do professional work as an educator (elementary school and later college), but at various times in my life, I worked as a picker on a farm, cleaned animal kennels, did grunt work at a sign company, worked in a cannery, and worked in a sweat shop folding aprons.  Like I said, everyone who is physically able should do their time at this kind of work. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,576
    brianlux said:
    Some of us get it. From Letter From An American:

    In the past days, we have learned that the six maintenance workers killed when the bridge collapsed were all immigrants, natives of Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Around 39% of the workforce in the construction industry around Baltimore and Washington, D.C., about 130,000 people, are immigrants, Scott Dance and María Luisa Paúl reported in the Washington Post yesterday. 

    Some of the men were undocumented, and all of them were family men who sent money back to their home countries, as well. From Honduras, the nephew of one of the men killed told the Associated Press, “The kind of work he did is what people born in the U.S. won’t do. People like him travel there with a dream. They don’t want to break anything or take anything.”  
     
    In the Philadelphia Inquirer today, journalist Will Bunch castigated the right-wing lawmakers and pundits who have whipped up native-born Americans over immigration, calling immigrants sex traffickers and fentanyl dealers, and even “animals.” Bunch illustrated that the reality of what was happening on the Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed creates an opportunity to reframe the immigration debate in the United States.

    Last month, Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that immigration is a key reason that the United States experienced greater economic growth than any other nation In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The surge of immigration that began in 2022 brought to the U.S. working-age people who, Director Phill Swagel of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office wrote, are expected to make the U.S. gross domestic product about $7 trillion larger over the ten years from 2023 to 2034 than it would have been otherwise. Those workers will account for about $1 trillion dollars in revenues.

    The workers who died in the bridge collapse on Tuesday “were not ‘poisoning the blood of our country,’” Will Bunch wrote, quoting Trump; “they were replenishing it…. They may have been born all over the continent, but when these men plunged into our waters on Tuesday, they died as Americans.”

    Huge amounts of work in this country would not get done if it were not for immigrants, particularly those from Mexico, Central, and South America.  There is a simple reason for this- too many Americans believe it is beneath them to do hard, physical, manual labor.  If every young person took their turn at doing this kind of work, there would not be the need for so many migrant workers.  But the need is there and these people are willing to do it and we would do well to respect, compensate, and thank them for that work.
    And if anyone is wondering, yes, I've done my time at manual labor.  I eventually did do professional work as an educator (elementary school and later college), but at various times in my life, I worked as a picker on a farm, cleaned animal kennels, did grunt work at a sign company, worked in a cannery, and worked in a sweat shop folding aprons.  Like I said, everyone who is physically able should do their time at this kind of work. 
    Repubs want 12 and 14 year old kids doing that kind of work so we won’t need the “other.” Welcome back to the Jungle and Triangle Shirt Waist Factory.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,680
    brianlux said:
    Some of us get it. From Letter From An American:

    In the past days, we have learned that the six maintenance workers killed when the bridge collapsed were all immigrants, natives of Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Around 39% of the workforce in the construction industry around Baltimore and Washington, D.C., about 130,000 people, are immigrants, Scott Dance and María Luisa Paúl reported in the Washington Post yesterday. 

    Some of the men were undocumented, and all of them were family men who sent money back to their home countries, as well. From Honduras, the nephew of one of the men killed told the Associated Press, “The kind of work he did is what people born in the U.S. won’t do. People like him travel there with a dream. They don’t want to break anything or take anything.”  
     
    In the Philadelphia Inquirer today, journalist Will Bunch castigated the right-wing lawmakers and pundits who have whipped up native-born Americans over immigration, calling immigrants sex traffickers and fentanyl dealers, and even “animals.” Bunch illustrated that the reality of what was happening on the Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed creates an opportunity to reframe the immigration debate in the United States.

    Last month, Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that immigration is a key reason that the United States experienced greater economic growth than any other nation In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The surge of immigration that began in 2022 brought to the U.S. working-age people who, Director Phill Swagel of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office wrote, are expected to make the U.S. gross domestic product about $7 trillion larger over the ten years from 2023 to 2034 than it would have been otherwise. Those workers will account for about $1 trillion dollars in revenues.

    The workers who died in the bridge collapse on Tuesday “were not ‘poisoning the blood of our country,’” Will Bunch wrote, quoting Trump; “they were replenishing it…. They may have been born all over the continent, but when these men plunged into our waters on Tuesday, they died as Americans.”

    Huge amounts of work in this country would not get done if it were not for immigrants, particularly those from Mexico, Central, and South America.  There is a simple reason for this- too many Americans believe it is beneath them to do hard, physical, manual labor.  If every young person took their turn at doing this kind of work, there would not be the need for so many migrant workers.  But the need is there and these people are willing to do it and we would do well to respect, compensate, and thank them for that work.
    And if anyone is wondering, yes, I've done my time at manual labor.  I eventually did do professional work as an educator (elementary school and later college), but at various times in my life, I worked as a picker on a farm, cleaned animal kennels, did grunt work at a sign company, worked in a cannery, and worked in a sweat shop folding aprons.  Like I said, everyone who is physically able should do their time at this kind of work. 
    Repubs want 12 and 14 year old kids doing that kind of work so we won’t need the “other.” Welcome back to the Jungle and Triangle Shirt Waist Factory.

    I occasionally worked with my 12 and 14 year old nephews picking peas at a small farm in western Washington (state), but that's because they wanted to to do it and make a little money over the summer.  But at that age, no kid should be forced into labor.  On the other hand, I have no problem with parents expecting kids to do chores.  Does that even happen any more?  I don't think so.
    I visited a private school once that had a complete integrated curriculum.  The kids only spent half of the school day doing desk work.  The rest of the school day was spent doing constructive things like gardening, making things, home economics (for both boys and girls), crafts, etc., and those hands-on activities were tied in with subjects like math and English.  Those kids were happy, well adjusted, cooperative, and had a later-life career success rate that far excelled that of the average public school.  Given the right motivation and encouragement, kids like working and they like the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes from doing a good job.  I've seen it first hand.  But no, I'm not talking about forced child labor.  No way.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,975
    brianlux said:
    Some of us get it. From Letter From An American:

    In the past days, we have learned that the six maintenance workers killed when the bridge collapsed were all immigrants, natives of Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Around 39% of the workforce in the construction industry around Baltimore and Washington, D.C., about 130,000 people, are immigrants, Scott Dance and María Luisa Paúl reported in the Washington Post yesterday. 

    Some of the men were undocumented, and all of them were family men who sent money back to their home countries, as well. From Honduras, the nephew of one of the men killed told the Associated Press, “The kind of work he did is what people born in the U.S. won’t do. People like him travel there with a dream. They don’t want to break anything or take anything.”  
     
    In the Philadelphia Inquirer today, journalist Will Bunch castigated the right-wing lawmakers and pundits who have whipped up native-born Americans over immigration, calling immigrants sex traffickers and fentanyl dealers, and even “animals.” Bunch illustrated that the reality of what was happening on the Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed creates an opportunity to reframe the immigration debate in the United States.

    Last month, Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that immigration is a key reason that the United States experienced greater economic growth than any other nation In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The surge of immigration that began in 2022 brought to the U.S. working-age people who, Director Phill Swagel of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office wrote, are expected to make the U.S. gross domestic product about $7 trillion larger over the ten years from 2023 to 2034 than it would have been otherwise. Those workers will account for about $1 trillion dollars in revenues.

    The workers who died in the bridge collapse on Tuesday “were not ‘poisoning the blood of our country,’” Will Bunch wrote, quoting Trump; “they were replenishing it…. They may have been born all over the continent, but when these men plunged into our waters on Tuesday, they died as Americans.”

    Huge amounts of work in this country would not get done if it were not for immigrants, particularly those from Mexico, Central, and South America.  There is a simple reason for this- too many Americans believe it is beneath them to do hard, physical, manual labor.  If every young person took their turn at doing this kind of work, there would not be the need for so many migrant workers.  But the need is there and these people are willing to do it and we would do well to respect, compensate, and thank them for that work.
    And if anyone is wondering, yes, I've done my time at manual labor.  I eventually did do professional work as an educator (elementary school and later college), but at various times in my life, I worked as a picker on a farm, cleaned animal kennels, did grunt work at a sign company, worked in a cannery, and worked in a sweat shop folding aprons.  Like I said, everyone who is physically able should do their time at this kind of work. 
    Landscaping which I did in school is unheard of for kids to do now.  All the companies are Hispanic now here in my area.  They all undercut prices so it is fairly cheap.  I have no idea what the going rate is now for a daily wage.  Professionals would make 100 a day in the early 90's so no idea what they are supposed to be making.

    Deli's and fast food places also have no kids working in them.  I see the occasional teen working in one and marvel at it.  We discussed this in another thread where these positions have become permanent jobs for some folks where they used to be a stepping stone.

    Construction throughout the states is all over the place.  I was approached by other companies to get hired but after hearing the pay they offered I could see why they didn't have people that wanted to stay with them.

    Alaska was the only place I can think of where the work was brutal but the pay was worth it.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,680
    brianlux said:
    Some of us get it. From Letter From An American:

    In the past days, we have learned that the six maintenance workers killed when the bridge collapsed were all immigrants, natives of Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Around 39% of the workforce in the construction industry around Baltimore and Washington, D.C., about 130,000 people, are immigrants, Scott Dance and María Luisa Paúl reported in the Washington Post yesterday. 

    Some of the men were undocumented, and all of them were family men who sent money back to their home countries, as well. From Honduras, the nephew of one of the men killed told the Associated Press, “The kind of work he did is what people born in the U.S. won’t do. People like him travel there with a dream. They don’t want to break anything or take anything.”  
     
    In the Philadelphia Inquirer today, journalist Will Bunch castigated the right-wing lawmakers and pundits who have whipped up native-born Americans over immigration, calling immigrants sex traffickers and fentanyl dealers, and even “animals.” Bunch illustrated that the reality of what was happening on the Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed creates an opportunity to reframe the immigration debate in the United States.

    Last month, Catherine Rampell of the Washington Post noted that immigration is a key reason that the United States experienced greater economic growth than any other nation In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The surge of immigration that began in 2022 brought to the U.S. working-age people who, Director Phill Swagel of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office wrote, are expected to make the U.S. gross domestic product about $7 trillion larger over the ten years from 2023 to 2034 than it would have been otherwise. Those workers will account for about $1 trillion dollars in revenues.

    The workers who died in the bridge collapse on Tuesday “were not ‘poisoning the blood of our country,’” Will Bunch wrote, quoting Trump; “they were replenishing it…. They may have been born all over the continent, but when these men plunged into our waters on Tuesday, they died as Americans.”

    Huge amounts of work in this country would not get done if it were not for immigrants, particularly those from Mexico, Central, and South America.  There is a simple reason for this- too many Americans believe it is beneath them to do hard, physical, manual labor.  If every young person took their turn at doing this kind of work, there would not be the need for so many migrant workers.  But the need is there and these people are willing to do it and we would do well to respect, compensate, and thank them for that work.
    And if anyone is wondering, yes, I've done my time at manual labor.  I eventually did do professional work as an educator (elementary school and later college), but at various times in my life, I worked as a picker on a farm, cleaned animal kennels, did grunt work at a sign company, worked in a cannery, and worked in a sweat shop folding aprons.  Like I said, everyone who is physically able should do their time at this kind of work. 
    Landscaping which I did in school is unheard of for kids to do now.  All the companies are Hispanic now here in my area.  They all undercut prices so it is fairly cheap.  I have no idea what the going rate is now for a daily wage.  Professionals would make 100 a day in the early 90's so no idea what they are supposed to be making.

    Deli's and fast food places also have no kids working in them.  I see the occasional teen working in one and marvel at it.  We discussed this in another thread where these positions have become permanent jobs for some folks where they used to be a stepping stone.

    Construction throughout the states is all over the place.  I was approached by other companies to get hired but after hearing the pay they offered I could see why they didn't have people that wanted to stay with them.

    Alaska was the only place I can think of where the work was brutal but the pay was worth it.

    You were fishing up in AK as I recall, right?  My step daughter lives in Alaska now.  She easily found work up there when she first went there a number of years ago, and even though it was just retail, it paid fairly well.  (She's now working as a paralegal.  The kid's so damn smart it's scary.  She got the position with a college degree- just by her wits and abilities!) 

    We have the same situation with landscaping here.  Almost- maybe even virtually- all in the business are Hispanics.  With PG&E doing a lot of work to clear limbs from around power polls, we have many crews doing arborist work- again, most are Hispanics. That's high paying work, but apparently only Hispanics want to do it.

    Trade positions here, including plumbing, electrical, house painting, flooring, etc., seems to be done mostly by Caucasian workers.  Those jobs pay really well but there is a real shortage of people in those trades here.  It's hard work.  Most younger people want jobs sitting behind a computer. 

    But now I have to stop short of saying more about younger people.  Otherwise I might sound like a cranky old man which, of course. I am not...

    ...right?  :lol: 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,688
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