14 years and counting...

Gern Blansten

And then you have this crap (FB post on a local "uncensored" page) from my area...he watched a middleman fire his employees? How long was he standing around to witness that?

This is your typical tRump voter. Couldn't pass a third grade spelling test.

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

it has been a both sides issue for decades…but not since 2016ish for sure.  I think I’ve been very clear as to when I think it was a both sides issue vs what it has devolved into. 

I don’t recall the delineation being made between modern day and years’ past… I recall (more or less) saying this issue is too important for the GOP as it rallies their base to the polls, and someone pushed back saying it rallies both sides to the polls, not just the right. If that was meant historically as opposed to modern day, I missed that angle to it.

& in fairness, conservatives have been fear mongering about immigrants from the south since the reconstruction era… have democrats ever made immigration their platform like the GOP has? I ask that in good faith… I’m unaware of how democrats have platformed the immigration issue in elections past. 

I may not have been clear in the singular post.  I do think both sides have enjoyed using it to get people to the polls....but it is also true, and I certainly have stated plenty of times in this thread that this current version of the GOP has 0 interest in actually doing anything while the Dems are working on solutions.

My belief is the GOP uses it to drive voters who are afraid to the polls.  The Dems have used it as an issue to attempt to gain voters in the ever growing Latino population.  But there was a shift in the GOP that resulted in a do nothing party when they don't control everything.  Awful.

Yeah, I suppose the Dreamers issue was one that democrats have used, but I still think we're talking apples & oranges in regards to how each party has platformed the issue, even historically. 

It's never been the hot button topic on the left that it's been on the right, and for the exact reason you specified: fear. 

mickeyrat

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

I said in my first post it’s it’s a criminal system issue too. It’s not the migrant part that frustrates me, it’s the zero accountability that does. This trend of release without bail is ridiculous. I only bring up the migrant part because as an undocumented immigrant, you know there is about a 0.0001% chance they’ll show, so I don’t understand the reasoning behind it.

not for sure on all the rules, but I am fairly certain there's a rule that it's like immediate deportation if there's a criminal offense for those seeking Asylum. And that wouldn't be handled by a local jurisdiction that would be handled by INS

mickeyrat

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

Yeah, this incident is a gift to the GOP and red meat for the anti-immigrant movement. If people are talking about this then they aren’t talking about the fact that the GOP won’t fix the border because it’s too important for riling up their base during election years. 

We also aren’t talking about how the GOP is wasting time and tax dollars on a doomed-from-the-start purely performative impeachment of the secretary of homeland security for… not doing enough about immigration. 

EXACTLY. If the roles were reversed this would be the exact kind of situation where the maga's would be saying this is a psyop or these are crisis actors or some bullshit.

Hannity had that douchebag Guardian Angel douchebag guy on last night and his crew beat up some immigrant behind him on live television. Literally anything they can do to distract their viewers from the real issue at hand....they're gonna do it. And it will work because these people eat this shit up like it's all their last meal on earth or something. 

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I was going to post that and decided not to.  It's a bad look for sure.

Thankfully this is an isolated incident.  If more things like this happen the cops will make it hell for them.

Isolated yes.  The fact that they weren't back in their home country within 24 hours is ridiculous...let alone no bail for attacking a police officer. 

No bail for attacking a police officer is great until a police officer lies about being attacked. 

Are you speaking from the hip here?  There is film footage of 12 people kicking and punching at the cops...

I take back what I said and like Cincy, send em back.

I’m speaking about a general policy which is what I inferred from Cincy’s comment. 

I’m all for deporting criminal immigrants, but as I understand it, the 6th amendment applies to non-citizens as well as citizens, so there still has to be due process. 

I am a bit confused by your statement.  If you are saying don't just immediately deport....I can see that, I disagree, but I understand.  If you are saying setting bail for people that attack cops isn't ok....I wouldn't agree.  It's the bare minimum that can be done.

DA stated they didnt have enough evidence. and they were released. fingerprinted and photos. have since left or are on their way to leave the country. 

Their info plugged into immigration system prevents them from claiming asylum again at a minimum.  as more video evidence is collected, the bench warrant should be enough to mean holding whereever they may make contact with police or border patrol......

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

In that same article, the chief seems to contradict the DA and states "This was a bail eligible offense, why bail wasn't asked for, we don't have an answer for that, but the judge also had an opportunity to step in and remand them to Rikers -- now these four are on a bus, the whole system needs to be looked at," said Chief of Patrol John Chell.
Also, I disagree with the DA that it is working. I've never heard repeat offenders are down, but even if it is, major crime overall is way up. So maybe more people are seeing it as a free pass on your first offense, get their one freebie and don't repeat? Is repeat offenders only down because first time offenders are up, and second time offenders are the same? That might actually be the case, I'm not sure how else you get overall crime up but repeat offenders down. That's not a stat I'd be bragging about.
They claimed to have more video that what has been shown on the media, so I'm not sure what more evidence they thought they needed to offer bail. The only one they decided was bail worthy was the original offender who resisted arrest and started it. I think running up and blind-siding a cop with a foot to the face is deserving too. 

Merkin Baller

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

Yeah, this incident is a gift to the GOP and red meat for the anti-immigrant movement. If people are talking about this then they aren’t talking about the fact that the GOP won’t fix the border because it’s too important for riling up their base during election years. 

We also aren’t talking about how the GOP is wasting time and tax dollars on a doomed-from-the-start purely performative impeachment of the secretary of homeland security for… not doing enough about immigration. 

EXACTLY. If the roles were reversed this would be the exact kind of situation where the maga's would be saying this is a psyop or these are crisis actors or some bullshit.

Hannity had that douchebag Guardian Angel douchebag guy on last night and his crew beat up some immigrant behind him on live television. Literally anything they can do to distract their viewers from the real issue at hand....they're gonna do it. And it will work because these people eat this shit up like it's all their last meal on earth or something. 

Of course it works. 

It wasn’t that long ago people were making excuses for the MAGA’s who attacked the CPD on 1/6. They blamed antfa, crisis actors, George Floyd, Nancy Pelosi, more recently Nikki Haley - everyone under the sun except trump and the people who answered his call. Those being held are referred to as hostages by some of the GOP. Funny how that works… 

I just saw that Hannity clip, it was something else… I like how he referred to them as ‘Biden’s undocumented immigrants’ (or something to that effect ) as if Biden’s the one refusing to fix the problem, not the GOP. 

I also like how they brought up the veteran angle to ramp up resentment of the immigrants. They’re doing everything they can to drum up the hysteria and to what end? There’s a historical precedent to dehumanizing large groups of people for those who want to acknowledge it, and it’s not a good one. 

The Juggler

Disingenuous sons of bitches. All of them. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/07/mcconnell-gop-rebellion-border-deal-00139972

Behind the border mess: Open GOP rebellion against McConnell

The Republican leader told POLITICO that his critics “had their shot” already. But conservatives are not done whacking him over the immigration-for-Ukraine aid implosion.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) speaks during a press conference at the U.S. Capitol on Feb. 6, 2024. | Francis Chung/POLITICO

Conservative hardliners once celebrated Mitch McConnell for wrestling the federal judiciary to the right and thwarting progressive hopes.

Now he is under open attack from the right for even trying to work with Democrats on the border.

The Senate GOP leader is facing internal resistance not seen in more than a year as Republicans descend into discord over two issues they once demanded be linked: border security and the war in Ukraine.

McConnell, now nearing his 82nd birthday, is determined to fund the Ukrainian war effort, a push his allies have depicted as legacy-defining. But now that his party is set on Wednesday to reject a bipartisan trade of tougher border policies for war funding, his far-right critics are speaking out more loudly: Several held a press conference Tuesday where they denounced his handling of the border talks, with Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) calling on McConnell to step down.

In an interview, McConnell rejected the criticism and said his antagonists fail to recognize the reality of divided government.

“I’ve had a small group of persistent critics the whole time I’ve been in this job. They had their shot,” McConnell said, referring to Sen. Rick Scott’s (R-Fla.) challenge to his leadership in 2022.

“The reason we’ve been talking about the border is because they wanted to, the persistent critics,” he added. “You can’t pass a bill without dealing with a Democratic president and a Democratic Senate.”

McConnell admits defeat: Border deal 'will not become law'

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Despite that pragmatism, McConnell’s job is only getting harder. If he runs for another term in leadership next year, a tougher fight than Scott gave him seems almost inevitable.

That is in part because of Donald Trump, whom McConnell barely acknowledges after criticizing his role in the Capitol riot of Jan. 6, 2021. The former president played a leading role in killing the border deal and has called consistently for McConnell’s ouster. And at this time next year, Trump could well be back in the White House.

More and more of Senate Republicans’ internal strife is seeping out into public view, exposing years-old beefs that are still simmering. Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) posted a fundraising link asking donors to “kill this border bill” in the middle of a closed-door GOP meeting on Monday and demanded “new leadership,” while Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) memed McConnell as Charlie Brown whiffing on an attempt to kick a football held by Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.).

“I’ve been super unhappy since this started,” Johnson said in an interview. “Leader McConnell completely blew this.”

Trump and Speaker Mike Johnson helped squash the border bill’s prospects in the House while Ron Johnson, Lee, Cruz, Vance and Scott pummeled it on TV and social media. The intensity of that assault turned many GOP senators sour on a border security deal that would have amounted to the most conservative immigration bill backed by a Democratic president in a generation — a bill they once said was the key to unlocking Ukraine aid.

Though McConnell touted the work of Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) and the bill’s endorsement by the Border Patrol union, he conceded what was obvious by Monday night: This legislation is dead.

“The reason we ended up where we are is the members decided, since it was never going to become law, they didn’t want to deal with it,” McConnell said in the interview. “I don’t know who is at fault here, in terms of trying to cast public blame.”

At Tuesday’s party meeting, Cruz told McConnell that the border deal was indefensible, while Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) questioned why the GOP would walk away from it, according to two people familiar with the meeting. That followed a Monday evening private meeting where Johnson got into a near-shouting match with Sen. Todd Young (R-Ind.), one of several senators who has tried to rebut Trump’s influence on the party.

Young played down the spat afterward: “Ron and I have a very good relationship. We can be very candid with one another.”

McConnell’s loud critics are among those most responsible for raising opposition to the border deal, attacking its provisions while the text was being finalized. They raised such a ruckus that none of McConnell’s potential successors as leader — Sens. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), John Cornyn (R-Texas) and John Thune (R-S.D.) — offered to support it.

McConnell can’t be ejected spontaneously like a House speaker, meaning his job is safe until the end of the year. He also has major sway over the Senate Leadership Fund, a super PAC that may have to help Cruz, Scott and other Republicans win reelection.

And McConnell is not without defenders. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said any attempt to blame McConnell for the border crackup is “a bit misplaced.”

Indeed, McConnell was OK with just approving foreign aid back in the fall, but agreed to link it to border security after rank-and-file Republicans grew eager to extract concessions from Democrats in order to get Ukraine money.

“It’s not James’ fault, he did the best he could under the circumstances. It’s not Mitch’s fault,” said Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.).

The historical record holds plenty of quotes from McConnell’s current critics asking for stronger border policy during the Trump administration. Many of them now have since changed their tune to say Biden doesn’t need new laws at all to enforce border security.

“We all wanted to see border security. And I think a lot of our members were demanding that in exchange for the rest of the funding. That’s an issue our conference needs to be aware of,” said Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa), the No. 4 leader. “The conference wanted border security.”

The animosity McConnell now faces from Ron Johnson, Lee and others isn’t new either: They’ve questioned Senate GOP leadership’s decisions for years.

Ron Johnson’s long been a thorn in McConnell’s side for years, particular after many Republicans abandoned his reelection bid in 2016. Cruz has sparred with McConnell since getting to the Senate in 2013, Lee frequently breaks with leadership and a number of newer GOP senators voted for Scott over McConnell in 2022.

One GOP senator, granted anonymity to assess the situation candidly, said that the new wave of attacks could be happening because McConnell’s opponents sense weakness — or just out of “personal pique” over years-old disagreements.

Dems, GOP rage as border deal collapses

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“For three months it’s been nothing but border and Ukraine, border and Ukraine, border and Ukraine. I don’t know how many speeches I’ve heard … and now all of a sudden, it’s: ‘We’re not going to do that,’” said Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), another of the McConnell critics. “It just seems like total chaos to me.”

Either way, the 180 among many Republicans is evidence of a major drift away from McConnell’s style of Republicanism and toward Trump’s. McConnell hasn’t talked to Trump since the Jan. 6 riot and tried to turn the party in a surprisingly deal-centric direction during the first two years of President Joe Biden’s presidency.

Just two years ago, debt ceiling increases, gun safety and infrastructure laws passed with McConnell’s blessing — all a reflection of his view that protecting the filibuster requires working with Democrats on bipartisan bills.

Now the reality is that Trump, the likely nominee, doesn’t want a deal that Republicans set out to secure four months ago. Deal-making without Trump’s blessing appears impossible, and that’s a challenging dynamic for the longtime GOP leader.

“This wasn’t good for him. This wasn’t good for any of us,” said Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) of McConnell, whom he backed in 2022. “And I’m not gonna say he’s the total cause of it, but we got to have a better plan. This didn’t work out for us.”

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

In that same article, the chief seems to contradict the DA and states "This was a bail eligible offense, why bail wasn't asked for, we don't have an answer for that, but the judge also had an opportunity to step in and remand them to Rikers -- now these four are on a bus, the whole system needs to be looked at," said Chief of Patrol John Chell.
Also, I disagree with the DA that it is working. I've never heard repeat offenders are down, but even if it is, major crime overall is way up. So maybe more people are seeing it as a free pass on your first offense, get their one freebie and don't repeat? Is repeat offenders only down because first time offenders are up, and second time offenders are the same? That might actually be the case, I'm not sure how else you get overall crime up but repeat offenders down. That's not a stat I'd be bragging about.
They claimed to have more video that what has been shown on the media, so I'm not sure what more evidence they thought they needed to offer bail. The only one they decided was bail worthy was the original offender who resisted arrest and started it. I think running up and blind-siding a cop with a foot to the face is deserving too. 

Do you have a link to a source to back your claim that, “major crime overall is way up?”

Merkin Baller

& if (when?) Russia takes over Ukraine, and continues on to a NATO country forcing us to send troops, Biden will get blamed for that too. 

Unless the very stable genius gets reelected and follows through with his wish to pull us out of NATO, which would be a whole other set of problems for us, but I digress.  

The absolute funniest part of this is that the GOP forced this shit show upon themselves... they tied border measures to Ukraine funding, and then exposed themselves when they backed away. It's not just human lives they're fucking with, it's our national security, but whatever... as long as libz are owned and Republicans retain power, nothing else matters. 

The Juggler

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

In that same article, the chief seems to contradict the DA and states "This was a bail eligible offense, why bail wasn't asked for, we don't have an answer for that, but the judge also had an opportunity to step in and remand them to Rikers -- now these four are on a bus, the whole system needs to be looked at," said Chief of Patrol John Chell.
Also, I disagree with the DA that it is working. I've never heard repeat offenders are down, but even if it is, major crime overall is way up. So maybe more people are seeing it as a free pass on your first offense, get their one freebie and don't repeat? Is repeat offenders only down because first time offenders are up, and second time offenders are the same? That might actually be the case, I'm not sure how else you get overall crime up but repeat offenders down. That's not a stat I'd be bragging about.
They claimed to have more video that what has been shown on the media, so I'm not sure what more evidence they thought they needed to offer bail. The only one they decided was bail worthy was the original offender who resisted arrest and started it. I think running up and blind-siding a cop with a foot to the face is deserving too. 

Do you have a link to a source to back your claim that, “major crime overall is way up?”

He might have one from a couple years ago. Here is the reality that the right wing media does not want it's consumers to realize

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/people-think-crime-rate-up-actually-down-rcna129585

Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong.

Almost 80 percent of Americans, and 92 percent of Republicans, think crime has gone up. It actually fell in 2023. An expert blames a familiar culprit for the mistaken impression.

Thieves ransack a Southern California mall in August.TNLA via NBC Los Angeles

Dec. 16, 2023, 7:00 AM EST

By Ken Dilanian

Crime in the United States has declined significantly over the last year, according to new FBI data that contradicts a widespread national perception that law-breaking and violence are on the rise.

A Gallup poll released this month found that 77% of Americans believe crime rates are worsening, but they are mistaken, the new FBI data and other statistics show.

The FBI data, which compares crime rates in the third quarter of 2023 to the same period last year, found that violent crime dropped 8%, while property crime fell 6.3% to what would be its lowest level since 1961, according to criminologist Jeff Asher, who analyzed the FBI numbers.

Murder plummeted in the United States in 2023 at one of the fastest rates of decline ever recorded, Asher found, and every category of major crime except auto theft declined.

Yet 92% of Republicans, 78% of independents and 58% of Democrats believe crime is rising, the Gallup survey shows.

“I think we’ve been conditioned, and we have no way of countering the idea” that crime is rising,” Asher said. “It’s just an overwhelming number of news media stories and viral videos — I have to believe that social media is playing a role.”

The FBI’s quarterly numbers cover about 78% of the U.S. population and don’t give as full a picture as the more comprehensive annual report the FBI puts out once a year. But Asher said the quarterly reports in the past have hewed fairly close to the annual ones.

The most recent annual report, released in October, covered 94% of the country and found that violent crime in 2022 fell back to pre-pandemic levels, with murder dropping 6.1%.

Asher maintains a separate database of murder in big cities which found that murder is down 12.7 percent this year, after rising during the pandemic. 

Detroit is on pace to have the fewest murders since 1966, Asher found, while Baltimore and St Louis are on track to post the fewest murders in each city in nearly a decade. A few cities, including Memphis and Washington DC, are still seeing increases in their murder rates, but they are outliers.

FBI data doesn’t have a separate category for retail theft. It falls under “larceny,” which declined overall last year, according to the latest numbers. Retail theft is widely believed to have skyrocketed in some cities, and the industry says it is at “unprecedented” levels. But the data doesn’t necessarily support that thesis.

FBI numbers are not the only measure of crime. The annual Justice Department survey of criminal victimization in 2022 found that a lot of crime goes unreported, and that more people reported being victims of violent crime in 2022 than in 2021. But Asher has documented questions about that survey’s methodology. 

So why are Americans’ perceptions about crime so different from the apparent reality? Asher believes there is a measure of partisanship at work — Republicans are more ready to believe crime is increasing while Democrats hold the White House — but he largely chalks it up to media consumption.

“My neighbors never post on NextDoor how many thousands of packages they successfully receive,” he wrote recently. “Only video of the one that randomly got swiped.”

Asher and other analysts say the natural tendency of the news media to highlight disturbing crime stories — and the tendency of those stories to go viral on social media — presents a false but persuasive picture.

Videos of flash mobs on shop lifting sprees or carjackings in broad day light are more ubiquitous, even if those crimes are not.

“These outlier incidents become the glue people rely on when guesstimating whether crime is up or down,” he wrote.

Halifax2TheMax

Merkin Baller said:

& if (when?) Russia takes over Ukraine, and continues on to a NATO country forcing us to send troops, Biden will get blamed for that too. 

Unless the very stable genius gets reelected and follows through with his wish to pull us out of NATO, which would be a whole other set of problems for us, but I digress.  

The absolute funniest part of this is that the GOP forced this shit show upon themselves... they tied border measures to Ukraine funding, and then exposed themselves when they backed away. It's not just human lives they're fucking with, it's our national security, but whatever... as long as libz are owned and Republicans retain power, nothing else matters. 

Brandon called their bluff and Dems by dropping the dreamers. Chaos agents. But they were out maneuvered by the repubs.

Merkin Baller

Wow, both Lankford AND Crenshaw have spines. Who knew? More of this, please. 

https://x.com/bidenhq/status/1755026863288717486?s=46&t=8gcgOb63bxt_SN15MkuwYg

mickeyrat

Merkin Baller said:

& if (when?) Russia takes over Ukraine, and continues on to a NATO country forcing us to send troops, Biden will get blamed for that too. 

Unless the very stable genius gets reelected and follows through with his wish to pull us out of NATO, which would be a whole other set of problems for us, but I digress.  

The absolute funniest part of this is that the GOP forced this shit show upon themselves... they tied border measures to Ukraine funding, and then exposed themselves when they backed away. It's not just human lives they're fucking with, it's our national security, but whatever... as long as libz are owned and Republicans retain power, nothing else matters. 

I recall recently Rubio and a House member attached a rider to a bill, must pass, preventing a president from pulling out of nato without congressional approval. it could still be possible it couldnt be done unilaterally.

mickeyrat

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

In that same article, the chief seems to contradict the DA and states "This was a bail eligible offense, why bail wasn't asked for, we don't have an answer for that, but the judge also had an opportunity to step in and remand them to Rikers -- now these four are on a bus, the whole system needs to be looked at," said Chief of Patrol John Chell.
Also, I disagree with the DA that it is working. I've never heard repeat offenders are down, but even if it is, major crime overall is way up. So maybe more people are seeing it as a free pass on your first offense, get their one freebie and don't repeat? Is repeat offenders only down because first time offenders are up, and second time offenders are the same? That might actually be the case, I'm not sure how else you get overall crime up but repeat offenders down. That's not a stat I'd be bragging about.
They claimed to have more video that what has been shown on the media, so I'm not sure what more evidence they thought they needed to offer bail. The only one they decided was bail worthy was the original offender who resisted arrest and started it. I think running up and blind-siding a cop with a foot to the face is deserving too. 

Do you have a link to a source to back your claim that, “major crime overall is way up?”

He might have one from a couple years ago. Here is the reality that the right wing media does not want it's consumers to realize

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/people-think-crime-rate-up-actually-down-rcna129585

Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong.

Almost 80 percent of Americans, and 92 percent of Republicans, think crime has gone up. It actually fell in 2023. An expert blames a familiar culprit for the mistaken impression.

Thieves ransack a Southern California mall in August.TNLA via NBC Los Angeles

Dec. 16, 2023, 7:00 AM EST

By Ken Dilanian

Crime in the United States has declined significantly over the last year, according to new FBI data that contradicts a widespread national perception that law-breaking and violence are on the rise.

A Gallup poll released this month found that 77% of Americans believe crime rates are worsening, but they are mistaken, the new FBI data and other statistics show.

The FBI data, which compares crime rates in the third quarter of 2023 to the same period last year, found that violent crime dropped 8%, while property crime fell 6.3% to what would be its lowest level since 1961, according to criminologist Jeff Asher, who analyzed the FBI numbers.

Murder plummeted in the United States in 2023 at one of the fastest rates of decline ever recorded, Asher found, and every category of major crime except auto theft declined.

Yet 92% of Republicans, 78% of independents and 58% of Democrats believe crime is rising, the Gallup survey shows.

“I think we’ve been conditioned, and we have no way of countering the idea” that crime is rising,” Asher said. “It’s just an overwhelming number of news media stories and viral videos — I have to believe that social media is playing a role.”

The FBI’s quarterly numbers cover about 78% of the U.S. population and don’t give as full a picture as the more comprehensive annual report the FBI puts out once a year. But Asher said the quarterly reports in the past have hewed fairly close to the annual ones.

The most recent annual report, released in October, covered 94% of the country and found that violent crime in 2022 fell back to pre-pandemic levels, with murder dropping 6.1%.

Asher maintains a separate database of murder in big cities which found that murder is down 12.7 percent this year, after rising during the pandemic. 

Detroit is on pace to have the fewest murders since 1966, Asher found, while Baltimore and St Louis are on track to post the fewest murders in each city in nearly a decade. A few cities, including Memphis and Washington DC, are still seeing increases in their murder rates, but they are outliers.

FBI data doesn’t have a separate category for retail theft. It falls under “larceny,” which declined overall last year, according to the latest numbers. Retail theft is widely believed to have skyrocketed in some cities, and the industry says it is at “unprecedented” levels. But the data doesn’t necessarily support that thesis.

FBI numbers are not the only measure of crime. The annual Justice Department survey of criminal victimization in 2022 found that a lot of crime goes unreported, and that more people reported being victims of violent crime in 2022 than in 2021. But Asher has documented questions about that survey’s methodology. 

So why are Americans’ perceptions about crime so different from the apparent reality? Asher believes there is a measure of partisanship at work — Republicans are more ready to believe crime is increasing while Democrats hold the White House — but he largely chalks it up to media consumption.

“My neighbors never post on NextDoor how many thousands of packages they successfully receive,” he wrote recently. “Only video of the one that randomly got swiped.”

Asher and other analysts say the natural tendency of the news media to highlight disturbing crime stories — and the tendency of those stories to go viral on social media — presents a false but persuasive picture.

Videos of flash mobs on shop lifting sprees or carjackings in broad day light are more ubiquitous, even if those crimes are not.

“These outlier incidents become the glue people rely on when guesstimating whether crime is up or down,” he wrote.

huh. crimes going down while the economy is doing better?  gotta be a coincidence,  right?

The Juggler

mickeyrat said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

In that same article, the chief seems to contradict the DA and states "This was a bail eligible offense, why bail wasn't asked for, we don't have an answer for that, but the judge also had an opportunity to step in and remand them to Rikers -- now these four are on a bus, the whole system needs to be looked at," said Chief of Patrol John Chell.
Also, I disagree with the DA that it is working. I've never heard repeat offenders are down, but even if it is, major crime overall is way up. So maybe more people are seeing it as a free pass on your first offense, get their one freebie and don't repeat? Is repeat offenders only down because first time offenders are up, and second time offenders are the same? That might actually be the case, I'm not sure how else you get overall crime up but repeat offenders down. That's not a stat I'd be bragging about.
They claimed to have more video that what has been shown on the media, so I'm not sure what more evidence they thought they needed to offer bail. The only one they decided was bail worthy was the original offender who resisted arrest and started it. I think running up and blind-siding a cop with a foot to the face is deserving too. 

Do you have a link to a source to back your claim that, “major crime overall is way up?”

He might have one from a couple years ago. Here is the reality that the right wing media does not want it's consumers to realize

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/people-think-crime-rate-up-actually-down-rcna129585

Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong.

Almost 80 percent of Americans, and 92 percent of Republicans, think crime has gone up. It actually fell in 2023. An expert blames a familiar culprit for the mistaken impression.

Thieves ransack a Southern California mall in August.TNLA via NBC Los Angeles

Dec. 16, 2023, 7:00 AM EST

By Ken Dilanian

Crime in the United States has declined significantly over the last year, according to new FBI data that contradicts a widespread national perception that law-breaking and violence are on the rise.

A Gallup poll released this month found that 77% of Americans believe crime rates are worsening, but they are mistaken, the new FBI data and other statistics show.

The FBI data, which compares crime rates in the third quarter of 2023 to the same period last year, found that violent crime dropped 8%, while property crime fell 6.3% to what would be its lowest level since 1961, according to criminologist Jeff Asher, who analyzed the FBI numbers.

Murder plummeted in the United States in 2023 at one of the fastest rates of decline ever recorded, Asher found, and every category of major crime except auto theft declined.

Yet 92% of Republicans, 78% of independents and 58% of Democrats believe crime is rising, the Gallup survey shows.

“I think we’ve been conditioned, and we have no way of countering the idea” that crime is rising,” Asher said. “It’s just an overwhelming number of news media stories and viral videos — I have to believe that social media is playing a role.”

The FBI’s quarterly numbers cover about 78% of the U.S. population and don’t give as full a picture as the more comprehensive annual report the FBI puts out once a year. But Asher said the quarterly reports in the past have hewed fairly close to the annual ones.

The most recent annual report, released in October, covered 94% of the country and found that violent crime in 2022 fell back to pre-pandemic levels, with murder dropping 6.1%.

Asher maintains a separate database of murder in big cities which found that murder is down 12.7 percent this year, after rising during the pandemic. 

Detroit is on pace to have the fewest murders since 1966, Asher found, while Baltimore and St Louis are on track to post the fewest murders in each city in nearly a decade. A few cities, including Memphis and Washington DC, are still seeing increases in their murder rates, but they are outliers.

FBI data doesn’t have a separate category for retail theft. It falls under “larceny,” which declined overall last year, according to the latest numbers. Retail theft is widely believed to have skyrocketed in some cities, and the industry says it is at “unprecedented” levels. But the data doesn’t necessarily support that thesis.

FBI numbers are not the only measure of crime. The annual Justice Department survey of criminal victimization in 2022 found that a lot of crime goes unreported, and that more people reported being victims of violent crime in 2022 than in 2021. But Asher has documented questions about that survey’s methodology. 

So why are Americans’ perceptions about crime so different from the apparent reality? Asher believes there is a measure of partisanship at work — Republicans are more ready to believe crime is increasing while Democrats hold the White House — but he largely chalks it up to media consumption.

“My neighbors never post on NextDoor how many thousands of packages they successfully receive,” he wrote recently. “Only video of the one that randomly got swiped.”

Asher and other analysts say the natural tendency of the news media to highlight disturbing crime stories — and the tendency of those stories to go viral on social media — presents a false but persuasive picture.

Videos of flash mobs on shop lifting sprees or carjackings in broad day light are more ubiquitous, even if those crimes are not.

“These outlier incidents become the glue people rely on when guesstimating whether crime is up or down,” he wrote.

huh. crimes going down while the economy is doing better?  gotta be a coincidence,  right?

And this thread is a microcosm of the country right now where people either don't realize it, don't believe it, or just don't care and want to continue blaming Biden for everything. 

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/brikeilarcnn/status/1754982389598626235?t=E5WwzbH8DUBq3uuvIpO1vA&s=19

Merkin Baller

The Juggler said:

mickeyrat said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

Has there been a statement made by the da explaining the rationale behind the decision? And what was the exact charge, what degree of assault or was it something along the lines of simple assault Etc. That's the kind of thing that would factor into whether or not bill was requested or not,  right?

The original article posted has quotes from the DA, governor, police union. Even mentions how “release without bail” has reduced repeat offenders and how this particular incident is a rarity. But you know, fauxrage because of the “other.”

In that same article, the chief seems to contradict the DA and states "This was a bail eligible offense, why bail wasn't asked for, we don't have an answer for that, but the judge also had an opportunity to step in and remand them to Rikers -- now these four are on a bus, the whole system needs to be looked at," said Chief of Patrol John Chell.
Also, I disagree with the DA that it is working. I've never heard repeat offenders are down, but even if it is, major crime overall is way up. So maybe more people are seeing it as a free pass on your first offense, get their one freebie and don't repeat? Is repeat offenders only down because first time offenders are up, and second time offenders are the same? That might actually be the case, I'm not sure how else you get overall crime up but repeat offenders down. That's not a stat I'd be bragging about.
They claimed to have more video that what has been shown on the media, so I'm not sure what more evidence they thought they needed to offer bail. The only one they decided was bail worthy was the original offender who resisted arrest and started it. I think running up and blind-siding a cop with a foot to the face is deserving too. 

Do you have a link to a source to back your claim that, “major crime overall is way up?”

He might have one from a couple years ago. Here is the reality that the right wing media does not want it's consumers to realize

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/people-think-crime-rate-up-actually-down-rcna129585

Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong.

Almost 80 percent of Americans, and 92 percent of Republicans, think crime has gone up. It actually fell in 2023. An expert blames a familiar culprit for the mistaken impression.

Thieves ransack a Southern California mall in August.TNLA via NBC Los Angeles

Dec. 16, 2023, 7:00 AM EST

By Ken Dilanian

Crime in the United States has declined significantly over the last year, according to new FBI data that contradicts a widespread national perception that law-breaking and violence are on the rise.

A Gallup poll released this month found that 77% of Americans believe crime rates are worsening, but they are mistaken, the new FBI data and other statistics show.

The FBI data, which compares crime rates in the third quarter of 2023 to the same period last year, found that violent crime dropped 8%, while property crime fell 6.3% to what would be its lowest level since 1961, according to criminologist Jeff Asher, who analyzed the FBI numbers.

Murder plummeted in the United States in 2023 at one of the fastest rates of decline ever recorded, Asher found, and every category of major crime except auto theft declined.

Yet 92% of Republicans, 78% of independents and 58% of Democrats believe crime is rising, the Gallup survey shows.

“I think we’ve been conditioned, and we have no way of countering the idea” that crime is rising,” Asher said. “It’s just an overwhelming number of news media stories and viral videos — I have to believe that social media is playing a role.”

The FBI’s quarterly numbers cover about 78% of the U.S. population and don’t give as full a picture as the more comprehensive annual report the FBI puts out once a year. But Asher said the quarterly reports in the past have hewed fairly close to the annual ones.

The most recent annual report, released in October, covered 94% of the country and found that violent crime in 2022 fell back to pre-pandemic levels, with murder dropping 6.1%.

Asher maintains a separate database of murder in big cities which found that murder is down 12.7 percent this year, after rising during the pandemic. 

Detroit is on pace to have the fewest murders since 1966, Asher found, while Baltimore and St Louis are on track to post the fewest murders in each city in nearly a decade. A few cities, including Memphis and Washington DC, are still seeing increases in their murder rates, but they are outliers.

FBI data doesn’t have a separate category for retail theft. It falls under “larceny,” which declined overall last year, according to the latest numbers. Retail theft is widely believed to have skyrocketed in some cities, and the industry says it is at “unprecedented” levels. But the data doesn’t necessarily support that thesis.

FBI numbers are not the only measure of crime. The annual Justice Department survey of criminal victimization in 2022 found that a lot of crime goes unreported, and that more people reported being victims of violent crime in 2022 than in 2021. But Asher has documented questions about that survey’s methodology. 

So why are Americans’ perceptions about crime so different from the apparent reality? Asher believes there is a measure of partisanship at work — Republicans are more ready to believe crime is increasing while Democrats hold the White House — but he largely chalks it up to media consumption.

“My neighbors never post on NextDoor how many thousands of packages they successfully receive,” he wrote recently. “Only video of the one that randomly got swiped.”

Asher and other analysts say the natural tendency of the news media to highlight disturbing crime stories — and the tendency of those stories to go viral on social media — presents a false but persuasive picture.

Videos of flash mobs on shop lifting sprees or carjackings in broad day light are more ubiquitous, even if those crimes are not.

“These outlier incidents become the glue people rely on when guesstimating whether crime is up or down,” he wrote.

huh. crimes going down while the economy is doing better?  gotta be a coincidence,  right?

And this thread is a microcosm of the country right now where people either don't realize it, don't believe it, or just don't care and want to continue blaming Biden for everything. 

Messaging works and the mainstream media and democrats don’t know how to weaponize it like the right does. Every newspaper in the country should have “The GOP Border *Crisis*” plastered across the front page, but they’re afraid to appear biased. 

Unfortunately, reality is biased against gop talking points, but somehow we have to entertain their bullshit regardless.