14 years and counting...

mickeyrat

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

mickeyrat

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

In a thread about immigration that has been around for a decade and a half, it's pretty strange to me that there is hardly any conversation about the current bill that could very well improve things quite a bit that republicans, who never shut up about the issue, are about to kill for purely political purposes. 

Nobody wants to talk about how full of shit that party is? 

I mean if immigration is important to you, where is the outrage over the one party that is suddenly disinclined to do anything about the issue they claim to care about most?

Yeah… the silence about the GOP Border “Crisis” is deafening, both here and in the real world.

I brought it up a couple pages ago...didn't get any traction. Instead, let's all be hyper focused on an isolated incident in New York or something. Not saying that is not a horrible thing because it is....

..BUT THERE IS FINALLY BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION that one party is just completely ignoring solely because Donald Trump told them to. A possible solution to this problem is literally within reach and the republicans are saying "nah, we're just going to continue to complain about it and blame the party who attempted to fix the issue." 

And you know what? Because they are so good at messaging to their mindless base, their side of the argument will likely win over the American people. This thread is a nice little microcosm of what is happening in this country right now. lol. Biden is getting blown out of the water on this issue, yet I bet the vast majority of the people who just blindly blame him and the democrats are not even fucking aware of what is happening this week.

Talk about dereliction of duty. These nimrods are attempting to impeach the Director of Homeland Security for failing to secure the border WHILE THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM A BILL THAT IS LITERALLY DESIGNED TO DO JUST THAT. 

Fucking disingenuous assholes. All of them. 

Merkin Baller

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

Halifax2TheMax

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

In a thread about immigration that has been around for a decade and a half, it's pretty strange to me that there is hardly any conversation about the current bill that could very well improve things quite a bit that republicans, who never shut up about the issue, are about to kill for purely political purposes. 

Nobody wants to talk about how full of shit that party is? 

I mean if immigration is important to you, where is the outrage over the one party that is suddenly disinclined to do anything about the issue they claim to care about most?

Yeah… the silence about the GOP Border “Crisis” is deafening, both here and in the real world.

I brought it up a couple pages ago...didn't get any traction. Instead, let's all be hyper focused on an isolated incident in New York or something. Not saying that is not a horrible thing because it is....

..BUT THERE IS FINALLY BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION that one party is just completely ignoring solely because Donald Trump told them to. A possible solution to this problem is literally within reach and the republicans are saying "nah, we're just going to continue to complain about it and blame the party who attempted to fix the issue." 

And you know what? Because they are so good at messaging to their mindless base, their side of the argument will likely win over the American people. This thread is a nice little microcosm of what is happening in this country right now. lol. Biden is getting blown out of the water on this issue, yet I bet the vast majority of the people who just blindly blame him and the democrats are not even fucking aware of what is happening this week.

Talk about dereliction of duty. These nimrods are attempting to impeach the Director of Homeland Security for failing to secure the border WHILE THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM A BILL THAT IS LITERALLY DESIGNED TO DO JUST THAT. 

Fucking disingenuous assholes. All of them. 

And why POOTWH will be re-elected.

Merkin Baller

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

Halifax2TheMax

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

Taxes and spending. We spend too much, particularly on the IRS and programs for the others. And how that $2 tax break per week on your paycheck is so great that you won’t be bothered by that 9% tax break for corporations or high investment earners because buying a 4th house creates jobs.

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

Yeah, the both sides stuff is bullshit. I look at this like gun control. The democrats have been forced to compromise the shit out of every gun control legislation that's ever become law...much to the consternation of rational people who realize they never go far enough. But, unfortunately, change never happens overnight so you take what you can get. 

This bill, in comparison, seems to go way further in advancing the other side's agenda yet those mother fuckers are refusing to do anything about it. 

There is no both sides with maga. I'm sick of people twisting themselves into pretzel trying to make those disingenuous arguments. 

The Juggler

Good...but you know what? How about a fucking Oval Office address? Something the networks all carry? If both sides now agree this is a pressing issue, having a press conference in the middle of the day that not many people will notice isn't giving me a ton of confidence the dems know how to take the offensive here. Hope I am wrong....


https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/06/biden-immigration-policy-border-republicans-00139966

Biden gets handed an immigration policy opening from the GOP. Can he take it?

Not everyone in the party is confident in the White House’s ability to turn lemons into lemonade.

President Joe Biden arrives to speak on the bipartisan border bill in the White House State Dining Room, on Feb. 6, 2024. | Mandel Ngan/AFP via Getty Images

By JENNIFER HABERKORN and SAM STEIN

02/06/2024 05:56 PM EST

President Joe Biden pledged Tuesday to make Republicans pay politically for torpedoing a bipartisan Senate deal meant to address the migrant crisis at the southern border.

Democrats are hopeful — but not entirely confident — he has the political chops to do so.

Across the party, there was a sense that Republicans had handed them the political equivalent of a life raft. Having insisted that Democrats agree to tough new measures to curb migration in exchange for Ukraine aid, Senate Republicans promised to kill the legislative deal that had resulted from that demand.

Biden wasted little time. Before cameras at the White House on Tuesday, he promised to take the GOP opposition to the bill “to the country” and blamed his likely general election opponent, Donald Trump, for masterminding the death of the deal to keep the border as an active campaign issue.

Democrats followed suit, echoing Biden’s message — and urging him to deliver it with uncharacteristic force.

The president should “go to the border, stand there and say, ‘We have a crisis that I can’t fix by executive order. You have to give me the authority. Here is the bill,’” said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), a close Biden ally. “He should stand there and say there is a way to fix this and it’s languishing on the Senate floor because Republicans don’t want to fix the problem.”

Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) said Democrats need “to focus like a laser beam on the fact that Republicans, for totally political purposes, destroyed a bipartisan border deal.”

“What you have here is the sad fact that too many Republicans have subcontracted out their vote to Donald Trump,” he added. “I mean, that’s how you have a situation where they declare a bill dead before they’ve even read it.”

The White House plans to seek out opportunities to talk about the issue in the future, according to an administration official. Administration officials felt buoyed by the breadth of support for the legislation, including the Wall Street Journal editorial page and the National Border Patrol Council, the border patrol agent union that is aligned with former President Trump.

But while Democrats privately agreed that they’d been gifted a political opening, not everyone was confident in the capacity to exploit it. Many stressed that it would take a sustained White House effort to make the public believe that Republicans were responsible for a situation on the border with a Democrat in the White House.

Biden: GOP should ‘show some spine’ on border deal

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“I don’t know how you avoid the conclusion that [Republicans are] really not interested in solving the problem at the border. They’re interested in maintaining an electoral issue,” said Sen. Angus King (I-Maine). Yet, “it remains to be seen whether that can be communicated effectively.”

Speeches and utterances at campaign rallies would be insufficient, Democrats warned. Biden would “really have to elevate it and hammer it home,” as Jim Manley, a top aide to former Majority Leader Harry Reid, put it. “Because these guys, through sheer incompetence, have given Democrats a fantastic selling point.”

Asked if Biden had shown the ability to do that, Manley took a second to weigh his response. “Not necessarily,” he replied.

Immigration reform advocates sympathetic to the White House, meanwhile, worried the president would not couple whatever rhetorical move he made to make Trump pay politically with substantive action to address the border crisis. They argued that the White House had effectively been given a green light by Republicans to pursue executive actions on a host of fronts, and that they needed to promptly do so.

“I really worry they think they can politic their way out of this issue,” said one top advocate, who was granted anonymity to candidly assess White House operations. “But on the margins of this they have failed to transform an immigration system. They now have to have a policy agenda.”

That Democrats even found themselves in a place to debate how best to turn the issue of migration into a political advantage was, itself, a testament to the chaotic developments on the Hill over the past few days.

Having spent months in intense negotiations, Senate lawmakers unveiled a deal late Sunday that would have increased resources to border agents, tightened standards for asylum claims, added work permits and set standards at which the border would largely be closed down.

Trump told Republicans to kill the measure, arguing the deal would diminish an effective campaign issue and that they could secure a better one with him in the Oval Office. While Republican skepticism to the bill was already circulating, GOP lawmakers fell in line. Some rank-and-file House Republicans publicly said they would oppose the plan, even before it was released, in an attempt to preserve it as a political issue. Their common refrain was that the Biden White House created the current crisis and already possessed the tools to solve it.

Immigration policy experts say there are steps that Biden can now take. Some would be welcomed by conservatives, such as moving more personnel and other resources to the border and processing centers along with tightening asylum eligibility. But many options would leave them howling.

Among the executive actions outlined by advocates was the use of executive authorities to expand pathways for humanitarian parole, scale up refugee programs and broaden work permits. Biden, they argued, could also take actions to provide more protections for so-called Dreamers and create new eligibility designations for temporary protective status.

 MOST READ

The overarching idea would be to divert migration away from the southern border into more manageable avenues. And Democrats said Biden should take such actions even if it risks exposing him to GOP claims that he already had the power to act.

“The president should use every bit of executive authority that exists now and press for continued efforts to reform a broken immigration system,” said Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.).

Republicans, for their part, said they were nonplussed about Biden’s threat to turn the issue on them. They expressed disbelief that the president could gain any advantage on securing the border after having been dogged by the issue since the onset of his presidency.

“He should try that,” said Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.). “I’d like to see him get out to explain some things — right after he talks to Ronald Reagan, you know.”

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

Halifax2TheMax

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

You know Faux News and the other MAGA outlets are playing this on a loop while all of their talking heads speak endlessly about the crisis on the border throughout the day and night, 24/7, expressing faux outrage. You know this, right? It doesn't need to happen "again," for once, played on a loop, makes it a crisis.

Merkin Baller

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

Yeah, this incident is a gift to the GOP and red meat for the anti-immigrant movement. If people are talking about this then they aren’t talking about the fact that the GOP won’t fix the border because it’s too important for riling up their base during election years. 

We also aren’t talking about how the GOP is wasting time and tax dollars on a doomed-from-the-start purely performative impeachment of the secretary of homeland security for… not doing enough about immigration. 

mace1229

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

penalty before conviction. alrighty then....

You believe in letting accused rapists and murderers roam free until after the trial and verdict? Based on your comment it would seem that you do. 

guess it begins with due process, and what you know the reason for bail to be in theory.

and no. to your off base assumptions.

and based off your statement I can reasonably infer you do not believe in the premise of innocent until proven guilty.....

your statement quite clearly suggests punishment(penalty) prior to conviction.

No, I don’t believe in punishment prior to conviction for the majority of cases.
I explained how bail is supposed to work. It’s collateral to allow you to continue to work and live while the process is ongoing. The bail is supposed to consider factors of flight risk, means, seriousness of crime, danger to society, etc. Only in cases where the defendant poses a risk to society should bail be denied. If you’re a big flight risk, but not a danger, bail should reflect that to guarantee you show.
An undocumented immigrant who can disappear with no ties to the community is about as big of a flight risk as you can get. Release without bail is ridiculous. Especially considering they were on video committing the crime. If you cannot afford the set bail, then here’s an idea. Don’t come to a country illegally, take advantage of the free housing given to you and beat up police.
Releasing them without any sort of accountability is a joke.

one thing I havent seen said is what exactly this guy did ? just shoved the cop? punched? kicked, whatever.

all these and other more minor contact are considered assault.

Yeah, I said he assaulted a cop. You just said punching and shoving are considered assault. I’m not sure what your question is.
The video shows several different indicates running up and kicking or punching a cop when he’s down. There’s no excuse, please don’t try to minimize it.
Punching and kicking police, especially when they’re already down on the ground being attacked, shouldn’t be ignored or brushed off as no big deal.

Why not? Seems as if the republicans, who talk nonstop about instances like this, are ignoring and brushing off the broader issue of immigration right at this very moment in lieu of moving forward with a bipartisan bill that could actually do a lot to prevent things like this from happening in the future. 

Perhaps, now hear me out now, they love seeing immigrants attack police, especially in blue cities. They fucking live for it. In fact they would love nothing more than for things like this to happen over and over and over again so folks of a similar mindset to yours would just get more riled up  and conveniently ignore the fact that the very people who are riling you up are literally choosing NOT to solve the problem in the first place.

If you really cared this much about immigration, I'd think you be better served diverting your attention away from this shiny object and over to the real issue at hand. 

I said in my first post it’s it’s a criminal system issue too. It’s not the migrant part that frustrates me, it’s the zero accountability that does. This trend of release without bail is ridiculous. I only bring up the migrant part because as an undocumented immigrant, you know there is about a 0.0001% chance they’ll show, so I don’t understand the reasoning behind it.

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

it has been a both sides issue for decades…but not since 2016ish for sure.  I think I’ve been very clear as to when I think it was a both sides issue vs what it has devolved into. 

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

it has been a both sides issue for decades…but not since 2016ish for sure.  I think I’ve been very clear as to when I think it was a both sides issue vs what it has devolved into. 

I don’t recall the delineation being made between modern day and years’ past… I recall (more or less) saying this issue is too important for the GOP as it rallies their base to the polls, and someone pushed back saying it rallies both sides to the polls, not just the right. If that was meant historically as opposed to modern day, I missed that angle to it.

& in fairness, conservatives have been fear mongering about immigrants from the south since the reconstruction era… have democrats ever made immigration their platform like the GOP has? I ask that in good faith… I’m unaware of how democrats have platformed the immigration issue in elections past. 

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

Yeah, as recently as the last couple of weeks someone was complaining in another thread about Biden wanting to “flood the nation w/ illegals” which is not only complete f’ing irrational and conspiratorial nonsense but also has roots in the white nationalist great replacement theory. 

I read somewhere that if this law was currently in place, the border would have been shut for months since the number exceed 5k a day a long time ago. You'd think republicans would want to close our borders, right? Guess not. lol

I said as much here about a month ago, the issue is too important at election time for the GOP to want to fix. It was countered as being a both sides issue IIRC, which I still don’t get. 

Fixing immigration is literally the GOP platform; they CAN’T fix it, what else would they run on? Law & order?   

it has been a both sides issue for decades…but not since 2016ish for sure.  I think I’ve been very clear as to when I think it was a both sides issue vs what it has devolved into. 

I don’t recall the delineation being made between modern day and years’ past… I recall (more or less) saying this issue is too important for the GOP as it rallies their base to the polls, and someone pushed back saying it rallies both sides to the polls, not just the right. If that was meant historically as opposed to modern day, I missed that angle to it.

& in fairness, conservatives have been fear mongering about immigrants from the south since the reconstruction era… have democrats ever made immigration their platform like the GOP has? I ask that in good faith… I’m unaware of how democrats have platformed the immigration issue in elections past. 

I may not have been clear in the singular post.  I do think both sides have enjoyed using it to get people to the polls....but it is also true, and I certainly have stated plenty of times in this thread that this current version of the GOP has 0 interest in actually doing anything while the Dems are working on solutions.

My belief is the GOP uses it to drive voters who are afraid to the polls.  The Dems have used it as an issue to attempt to gain voters in the ever growing Latino population.  But there was a shift in the GOP that resulted in a do nothing party when they don't control everything.  Awful.

cincybearcat

Hey Juggler who exactly are you yelling at here for not paying enough attention to you?