14 years and counting...

haffajappa

nuffingman wrote:

redrock wrote:

Immigration made America.

Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters. After all, these matters can affect you. I am also a foreigner in the country I live in. I've lived here over 22 years, been married to one of their citizens for that time, have a daughter and have been working here, paying my taxes for all this time too. But, I have no say in who will head the country and what they do with my taxes.

For those saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) take jobs away from 'us', that is not the complete truth. Most jobs these people do are very hard an low paid - most americans wouldn't want to do them. Same here... lots of 'lowly' jobs are held by immigrants and, if they were not here, the positions wouldn't be filled.

I also believe that if you are going to immigrate, you need to adapt to the country in which you reside, ie learn the language, customs, etc., and the citizens of the country need to be more accepting of these immigrants and help them integrate (whichever country this may be).

Without movement of people (in and out) we would not have advanced the way we have (in all areas).

Am I reading this correctly? Are you saying you can't vote? If so that's outrageous.

wow i'm confused too, is it like a choice?
What I mean is, my dad has "permanent residence" status even though he has lived in Canada over 20 years. He does this because he chooses to keep his Japanese citizenship (since in Japan you can't have dual citizenship) and just remain a PR here. The only difference between being a PR and having "citizenship" is that you can't vote as a PR... he doesn't really care about voting anyways (which is very Canadian, when you think about it :roll:)... he could easily apply for his citizenship and get it but he doesn't mind being able to do everything but vote.

dimitrispearljam

redrock wrote:

Immigration made America.

Arq, I believe that if you live in a country, contribute to it's economy and are 'part of the community', you have every right to express opinion in national matters. After all, these matters can affect you. I am also a foreigner in the country I live in. I've lived here over 22 years, been married to one of their citizens for that time, have a daughter and have been working here, paying my taxes for all this time too. But, I have no say in who will head the country and what they do with my taxes.

For those saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) take jobs away from 'us', that is not the complete truth. Most jobs these people do are very hard an low paid - most americans wouldn't want to do them. Same here... lots of 'lowly' jobs are held by immigrants and, if they were not here, the positions wouldn't be filled.

I also believe that if you are going to immigrate, you need to adapt to the country in which you reside, ie learn the language, customs, etc., and the citizens of the country need to be more accepting of these immigrants and help them integrate (whichever country this may be).

Without movement of people (in and out) we would not have advanced the way we have (in all areas).

if i could write good english i would say exactly the same..Rita still is strange u cant vote
arq,sometimes,laws are ok,nationality and stuff,but for me is how u feel..and u have every right to expreess how u feel,to tell your opinion...if u feel this is your home,im sure u love it,and u will fight for it..
here in my country,we are a nation,of so many thousand years and alot of people says,u only can be Greek if u born as one,but i already saw people coming from other counties and be more Greeks than the originals

redrock

Ref me being unable to vote. It's not a choice - if I could, I would. In the UK, if you are not a British citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland or if you are from a commonwealth country you can't vote in the General Elections. So, for example, someone from Canada, New Zealand, the Seychelles or even Zimbabwe to name a few, can vote (even if they have only lived in the country for a bit). I am in the UK under my French passport, so I do not qualify. The only way I can vote is if I apply for British citizenship and get a British passport.

Nuffingman - I hear what you're saying. Where I work (a bakery), the factory floor is filled with East Europeans who will take on all kinds of jobs and are hard workers. Some of these are well qualified too... there is a midwife, an accountant, etc. The agency we use to get temporary bakery operatives hardly has any english people on their books. Those they have want the supervisory roles, not the operative ones.

dimitrispearljam

so Rita?whats your nationality?are from France?uk?irish?im confused now

redrock

American father, French mother, born in France (but in an American military hospital), married to a Brit, live in the UK. I hold French and American passports

nuffingman

redrock wrote:

American father, French mother, born in France (but in an American military hospital), married to a Brit, live in the UK. I hold French and American passports

So can you vote in France and the US?

redrock

nuffingman wrote:

So can you vote in France and the US?

Yep... but I don't live there so I don't have a vested (personal) interest in the government. I would much rather have a say in the country in which I live and contribute to the economy.

battan1120

Illegal immigrants will soon be known as undocumented democrats

acoustic guy

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

gimmesometruth27

battan1120 wrote:

Illegal immigrants will soon be known as undocumented democrats

that's really funny rush. i seem to remember in 2000 and 2004 the latino community was heavily in favor of bush...

gimmesometruth27

acoustic guy wrote:

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

well it certainly is your opinion, and i think you are wrong on almost all points you make....i have so many issues with your post i don't know where to begin...fisrt of all, if you know many many illegals in your community why not do the "patriotic thing" and report them? how can you reconcile being so against illegal immigration, yet allow them to not only stay in the country, but "beat the system" as you call it??? why don't you put your money where your mouth is and be a hero and do your part and get them kicked out? i could not do that because i freely admit i have a conscience that would not allow me to do such a thing. they risk their lives to get here, yet how people want to just throw them out and completely fuck up those people's lives is beyond me.

another thing that i do not believe is you say "they send ALL of their money back to their homeland". think about that for a second. if someone sent ALL of their money away how would they pay rent, buy food, get transportation to and from work, pay for phone calls home etc..it is just an asinine statement. besides, those that are here legally send money back home as well. it is ridiculous to think that the legals and illegals are that different or that one is more virtous than the other. and what is wrong with buying goods from people of your own culture? most of these places import things that are from other countries and are not sold at your big box grocery stores. if i can find a product that i am familiar with from my country i am going to go to the place that i know will have it instead of trying to find something similar when i can not read the label. also, i am sure there is some degree of distrust of the american stores when there are people like you out there that want these people deported. if i was maxican, i am going to a mexican grocery because i would trust my own culture over yours to not report me. if they buy products they pay SALES TAX, which is paying into "the system". unless these mexican grocery stores are somehow tax exempt or do not charge a sales tax, which we all know is not possible.

"Freedom is not free"?? so since you were fortunate enough to have been born in this particular area of the world you have somehow done more to have this thing you call freedom? give me a break...just like me you were LUCKY enough to be born here and not in some place such as somalia or north korea...

Eliot Rosewater

acoustic guy wrote:

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

Jesus.

I hope you are just a really, really, REALLY sarcastic person. It both frightens and saddens me if you actually mean and believe what you type.

haffajappa

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

Jesus.

I hope you are just a really, really, REALLY sarcastic person. It both frightens and saddens me if you actually mean and believe what you type.

Although, he may be on to something with the sending money home part. There are a lot of Filipinos here who send all their money home (I work at a post office... they come in weekly to do money grams to send the money back to the Philippines). Not that you can blame them, if they have family there that needs it, but I guess it does happen.

Cosmo

unsung wrote:

Legal is good, illegal is bad.

...
Other than the legal status... what is the difference?
I'm serious... what is the difference between the two... other than one has the legal documents in his possession and the other one doesn't? Does not having the proper paperwork declare who is 'Good' and who is 'Bad'?
If not... what is the difference and makes one good and the other, bad?

Cosmo

acoustic guy wrote:

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

...
Based upon your basic premise, "If you want to be a citizen in a new country..."
But... what if you DON'T want to become a citizen of that country and just want to work there?
You know, like the Americans working in Saudi Arabia or Iraq. Do they want to become Saudi or Iraqi Citizens?
My guess... not so much. The money is great... much better than at home... but, they don't want to stay there forever, do they.
And if what you believe is true... those American employees working in the Middle East need to quit sending their earnings back to the U.S. and spend it over there... after they master the Arabic language... and assimilate to their culture.
The reason why many Mexicans (using the term generically) come here is to work because American small business owners will hire them to cut operating costs. Why should they learn English, if they are here just to work, not to live? And why can't they send the money back home to their families... for shelter, food and educations?
If you have a beef with Illegal Immigration... go after the root cause... the drug dealer equivilent. Go after the American owned businesses that HIRE Illegal immigrants.

acoustic guy

Cosmo wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

...
Based upon your basic premise, "If you want to be a citizen in a new country..."
But... what if you DON'T want to become a citizen of that country and just want to work there?
You know, like the Americans working in Saudi Arabia or Iraq. Do they want to become Saudi or Iraqi Citizens?
My guess... not so much. The money is great... much better than at home... but, they don't want to stay there forever, do they.
And if what you believe is true... those American employees working in the Middle East need to quit sending their earnings back to the U.S. and spend it over there... after they master the Arabic language... and assimilate to their culture.
The reason why many Mexicans (using the term generically) come here is to work because American small business owners will hire them to cut operating costs. Why should they learn English, if they are here just to work, not to live? And why can't they send the money back home to their families... for shelter, food and educations?
If you have a beef with Illegal Immigration... go after the root cause... the drug dealer equivilent. Go after the American owned businesses that HIRE Illegal immigrants.

Those American Workers over there have working contracts! They did not sneak their way in to make money! Its a contract job. LOL Are you serious??
They were hired by American Companies who have bid on work over there.
Apples and Oranges my friend...

Cosmo

acoustic guy wrote:

Those American Workers over there have working contracts! They did not sneak their way in to make money! Its a contract job. LOL Are you serious??
They were hired by American Companies who have bid on work over there.
Apples and Oranges my friend...

...
I knew your simplistic mind would come up with that and completely miss the point.
Whether under contract or not... they DON'T want to live there, right?
Those Americans are:
Taking job opportunities from the locals (how much skill does it take to drive a truck?).
Sending the money they are making back home to the U.S.
Not mastering the native language.
The same things that Mexican migrant workers are doing... taking jobs, sending home earnings and not learning the language.
Your basic premise is... they want to live here. That isn't always true. They are here because WE HIRE Them.
...
And as someone else pointed out... you admit to 'knowing MANY illegals... yet, fail to do your 'Patriotic Duty' and turn them in. If they are 'Illegal' in your eyes... they are criminals that YOU knowingly allow to commit crimes. What does that say about you?

acoustic guy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

If you want to be a citizen in a new country you need to do it legally!
I hate it when people think they have all these rights when they are not legal citizens then sneak in and say they want more rights. Its a slap in our faces IMO.
I know many illegals that work in my community. Some are good people with good families but the way they came here and the way they abuse and beat the system is not right.
One of the worst parts about it is that they send ALL their money to their home land wich hurts the flow of the economic system in the US. Many Latinos and Indians that I have known send ALL their money home. They dont put anything back into the community. If they shop, they buy from stores that are owned by people that are the same culture or race.
Many mexican families have many children here so that automaticly gives them advantages because the child is now a citizen.
As far as borders...how on earth can you think its smart to have open borders and let everyone come and go as they please??? Ridiculous!
And when some of you say "we are all immigrants?" Okay...well if ya keep allowing more and more people on your boat, sooner or later its gonna sink. Then where are you? S.O.L!
Freedom is not Free.
You want to be an American Citizen? Take the correct steps and show respect to the country you want to live in, pay taxes like everybody else, learn the language, give back to the community.....pretty simple I think
Right or wrong, its my opinion.

well it certainly is your opinion, and i think you are wrong on almost all points you make....i have so many issues with your post i don't know where to begin...fisrt of all, if you know many many illegals in your community why not do the "patriotic thing" and report them? how can you reconcile being so against illegal immigration, yet allow them to not only stay in the country, but "beat the system" as you call it??? why don't you put your money where your mouth is and be a hero and do your part and get them kicked out? i could not do that because i freely admit i have a conscience that would not allow me to do such a thing. they risk their lives to get here, yet how people want to just throw them out and completely fuck up those people's lives is beyond me.

another thing that i do not believe is you say "they send ALL of their money back to their homeland". think about that for a second. if someone sent ALL of their money away how would they pay rent, buy food, get transportation to and from work, pay for phone calls home etc..it is just an asinine statement. besides, those that are here legally send money back home as well. it is ridiculous to think that the legals and illegals are that different or that one is more virtous than the other. and what is wrong with buying goods from people of your own culture? most of these places import things that are from other countries and are not sold at your big box grocery stores. if i can find a product that i am familiar with from my country i am going to go to the place that i know will have it instead of trying to find something similar when i can not read the label. also, i am sure there is some degree of distrust of the american stores when there are people like you out there that want these people deported. if i was maxican, i am going to a mexican grocery because i would trust my own culture over yours to not report me. if they buy products they pay SALES TAX, which is paying into "the system". unless these mexican grocery stores are somehow tax exempt or do not charge a sales tax, which we all know is not possible.

"Freedom is not free"?? so since you were fortunate enough to have been born in this particular area of the world you have somehow done more to have this thing you call freedom? give me a break...just like me you were LUCKY enough to be born here and not in some place such as somalia or north korea...

First, I dont think we should grab them all and send them home. I didnt say that. I think we should make sure every illegal is accounted for and decided who is who and what their background is to eliminate any criminals.
I actually know one family of Mexicans that are great people. I have known them for a long time. They are trying to become legal by going through the legal process. They bought a home here. They respect the country, they all speak English. I will help them anyway I can. I also know of many many Mexican who refuse to learn the language and i am insulted by that. If you want to reap the benefits of this great country then pay respect.
As far as sending their money back??? Again, almost ALL the ones I have come into contact with are broke because they send ALL their money back. Many of the men here have their families in Mexico and they send EVERYTHING back. Of course they use money to eat and pay rent, don't be an idiot. The point is they really don't give back to the community. And sales tax?? Really? sales Tax? Whats that few Hundred a year IF that?

acoustic guy

Cosmo wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

Those American Workers over there have working contracts! They did not sneak their way in to make money! Its a contract job. LOL Are you serious??
They were hired by American Companies who have bid on work over there.
Apples and Oranges my friend...

...
I knew your simplistic mind would come up with that and completely miss the point.
Whether under contract or not... they DON'T want to live there, right?
Those Americans are:
Taking job opportunities from the locals (how much skill does it take to drive a truck?).
Sending the money they are making back home to the U.S.
Not mastering the native language.
The same things that Mexican migrant workers are doing... taking jobs, sending home earnings and not learning the language.
Your basic premise is... they want to live here. That isn't always true. They are here because WE HIRE Them.
...
And as someone else pointed out... you admit to 'knowing MANY illegals... yet, fail to do your 'Patriotic Duty' and turn them in. If they are 'Illegal' in your eyes... they are criminals that YOU knowingly allow to commit crimes. What does that say about you?

You are not making sense.....Its a Gov Contract! Are their Americans sneaking over there to work to reap the benefits of the country??? NO! Are they working under the table to avoid paying taxes? NO!
They work for an American Company that have a Contracted job in another country.
You're argument does not hold water in this case what so ever.

Cosmo

acoustic guy wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

Those American Workers over there have working contracts! They did not sneak their way in to make money! Its a contract job. LOL Are you serious??
They were hired by American Companies who have bid on work over there.
Apples and Oranges my friend...

...
I knew your simplistic mind would come up with that and completely miss the point.
Whether under contract or not... they DON'T want to live there, right?
Those Americans are:
Taking job opportunities from the locals (how much skill does it take to drive a truck?).
Sending the money they are making back home to the U.S.
Not mastering the native language.
The same things that Mexican migrant workers are doing... taking jobs, sending home earnings and not learning the language.
Your basic premise is... they want to live here. That isn't always true. They are here because WE HIRE Them.
...
And as someone else pointed out... you admit to 'knowing MANY illegals... yet, fail to do your 'Patriotic Duty' and turn them in. If they are 'Illegal' in your eyes... they are criminals that YOU knowingly allow to commit crimes. What does that say about you?

You are not making sense.....Its a Gov Contract! Are their Americans sneaking over there to work to reap the benefits of the country??? NO! Are they working under the table to avoid paying taxes? NO!
They work for an American Company that have a Contracted job in another country.
You're argument does not hold water in this case what so ever.

...
Let me make this as simple as i can...
Do the American workers want to become Saudi Arabia or Iraq citizens? Yes/No
...
Point... not all Mexicans want to become American Citizens. They are only here because this is where they can find work. Their families and homes are in their native land. They care about learning English about the same as an American wants to learn conversational Arabic.
Seriously... i don't know how to make this any simplier.