14 years and counting...

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,664
    edited October 2018
    unsung said:
    So they won’t be receiving any welfare?  I guess they won’t need it with all of the jobs that are going to fill according to H2M, just not sure what jobs.
    There are indeed labour shortages in many industries in various regions all over America. The restaurant industry struggles with this, and the transportation industry, and the construction industry, and the retail industry, and the agricultural industry, and in factories. Not to mention skilled labour in the tech and science sectors, which I'm sure these people's children can help out with in a couple decades, if the first generation doesn't have enough people with higher education or the means to get it once they're there.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    tempo_n_groove said:
    OK I've got an idea.

    Let them all in.

    Grant them asylum.

    Assign them SS numbers.

    Let them go to work.

    Once you get everyone to be in the system you can actually see if they are a boom or bust to society.

    If they fail to be good in society and not add to the community then deport them.

    You'll have all sorts of facts and numbers in a years time.

    Thoughts?

    We should start seeing what goes on in these other countries that we may be able to help with and fix them so their people don't run away in droves?  Not a really popular idea considering our past?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,078
    unsung said:
    So they won’t be receiving any welfare?  I guess they won’t need it with all of the jobs that are going to fill according to H2M, just not sure what jobs.
    Did you look at the BLS spreadsheet of open positions, by industry/category? Are you not able to determine based upon that, which jobs they may fill?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    unsung said:
    So they won’t be receiving any welfare?  I guess they won’t need it with all of the jobs that are going to fill according to H2M, just not sure what jobs.
    Did you look at the BLS spreadsheet of open positions, by industry/category? Are you not able to determine based upon that, which jobs they may fill?
    If neither one of you is willing to answer the question please stop.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,458
    unsung said:
    So they won’t be receiving any welfare?  I guess they won’t need it with all of the jobs that are going to fill according to H2M, just not sure what jobs.
    well somebody's gotta clean all that coal. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,406
    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    So they won’t be receiving any welfare?  I guess they won’t need it with all of the jobs that are going to fill according to H2M, just not sure what jobs.
    There are indeed labour shortages in many industries in various regions all over America. The restaurant industry struggles with this, and the transportation industry, and the construction industry, and the retail industry, and the agricultural industry, and in factories. Not to mention skilled labour in the tech and science sectors, which I'm sure these people's children can help out with in a couple decades, if the first generation doesn't have enough people with higher education or the means to get it once they're there.
    If the current  regime keeps up the anti immigrant rhetoric and cutting back on paths to citizenship there will be a brain drain.
    The people who wanted to come here will instead go to Canada or great Britain or Germany or Russia or Australia,  etc etc
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,078
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    unsung said:
    So they won’t be receiving any welfare?  I guess they won’t need it with all of the jobs that are going to fill according to H2M, just not sure what jobs.
    Did you look at the BLS spreadsheet of open positions, by industry/category? Are you not able to determine based upon that, which jobs they may fill?
    If neither one of you is willing to answer the question please stop.
    I’ll answer. Perhaps all of them Unsung, perhaps all of them.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    tempo_n_groove said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    OK I've got an idea.

    Let them all in.

    Grant them asylum.

    Assign them SS numbers.

    Let them go to work.

    Once you get everyone to be in the system you can actually see if they are a boom or bust to society.

    If they fail to be good in society and not add to the community then deport them.

    You'll have all sorts of facts and numbers in a years time.

    Thoughts?

    We should start seeing what goes on in these other countries that we may be able to help with and fix them so their people don't run away in droves?  Not a really popular idea considering our past?
    I don't think anyone is saying that we should just blindly let them all in. If they qualify for asylee/refugee status then vet them accordingly and let them in, if they don't then deny or go through the regular immigration process. I doubt that all of them would qualify, but if they did, I don't see a problem with what you're suggesting. It would be a good opportunity to track a group this large, but they'd need a way to do that by some sort of method that would probably require case managers or someone who can do the follow-up work in 6mos/1yr/2yrs and so on. It would be absolutely amazing if our worthless president or his admin could allocate both the money and personnel to accomplish such an important study that could really help the whole country see what happens to someone once they are accepted instead of spreading fear and xenophobia.

    I'm sure people would still ignore what would mostly be positive findings and focus on the few who didn't become upstanding citizens (much like the narrative already being spun with the whole MS-13 and bad hombre rhetoric).
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,825
    tbergs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    OK I've got an idea.

    Let them all in.

    Grant them asylum.

    Assign them SS numbers.

    Let them go to work.

    Once you get everyone to be in the system you can actually see if they are a boom or bust to society.

    If they fail to be good in society and not add to the community then deport them.

    You'll have all sorts of facts and numbers in a years time.

    Thoughts?

    We should start seeing what goes on in these other countries that we may be able to help with and fix them so their people don't run away in droves?  Not a really popular idea considering our past?
    I don't think anyone is saying that we should just blindly let them all in. If they qualify for asylee/refugee status then vet them accordingly and let them in, if they don't then deny or go through the regular immigration process. I doubt that all of them would qualify, but if they did, I don't see a problem with what you're suggesting. It would be a good opportunity to track a group this large, but they'd need a way to do that by some sort of method that would probably require case managers or someone who can do the follow-up work in 6mos/1yr/2yrs and so on. It would be absolutely amazing if our worthless president or his admin could allocate both the money and personnel to accomplish such an important study that could really help the whole country see what happens to someone once they are accepted instead of spreading fear and xenophobia.

    I'm sure people would still ignore what would mostly be positive findings and focus on the few who didn't become upstanding citizens (much like the narrative already being spun with the whole MS-13 and bad hombre rhetoric).
    And that all sounds great, but my concern, and I've seen a few others bring it up as well, is how long does that take? What are we going to do with the 7,000+ who just show up? How are we going to feed, shelter and clothe them? The media and many others are trying to paint this as an every day problem. I don't know why, because if this is an every day problem then immigration is far worse than anyone thinks so that is more reason to start enforcing boarders. But in reality what we deal with every day is just a small fraction of this size, spread across 2,000 miles of boarder.
    Here are my predictions. They will be housed in tents and said. Food, water and clothing will be rationed. It will be cramped, it will take a very long time to process. Many will claim they were treated like dogs because there was no way to put up 7,000 in a nice facility and feed them 3 hot meals a day. We will get complaints and accusations about how cruel it is from leaders around the world about hos this is handled, when at the same time they did nothing.
    That's just my prediction. 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,826
    PJ_Soul said:
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    From the White House:

    “The so-called migrant caravan that's slowly making its way to the U.S. from Central America is many things to many people. But one thing seems pretty certain: it's not about seeking ‘asylum,’ or ‘refugee status.’ It's about getting to the United States at all costs,” the Investor’s Business Daily editorial board writes. “It's time we take our border seriously, or we'll end up like those countries in Europe and the Mideast who find their nations no longer governable.”

    What countries in Europe and the Middle East find themselves "no longer governable?"
    I don't understand why they think these two things are mutually exclusive. Or, I should say, I don't understand why they think enough Americans are stupid enough to believe those things are mutually exclusive... Oh wait... Trump voters. Right.
    I may not be reading your statement right, but there are specific definitions for refugee and asylum. And financial gain is not one of them.
    Who said anything about financial gain?
    But if you think of it in terms of "seeking a better, safe life", that necessarily involves trying to reach financial stability, right?
    Have you looked up the definition for refugee and asylum seekers?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,846
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    From the White House:

    “The so-called migrant caravan that's slowly making its way to the U.S. from Central America is many things to many people. But one thing seems pretty certain: it's not about seeking ‘asylum,’ or ‘refugee status.’ It's about getting to the United States at all costs,” the Investor’s Business Daily editorial board writes. “It's time we take our border seriously, or we'll end up like those countries in Europe and the Mideast who find their nations no longer governable.”

    What countries in Europe and the Middle East find themselves "no longer governable?"
    I don't understand why they think these two things are mutually exclusive. Or, I should say, I don't understand why they think enough Americans are stupid enough to believe those things are mutually exclusive... Oh wait... Trump voters. Right.
    I may not be reading your statement right, but there are specific definitions for refugee and asylum. And financial gain is not one of them.
    Who said anything about financial gain?
    But if you think of it in terms of "seeking a better, safe life", that necessarily involves trying to reach financial stability, right?
    Have you looked up the definition for refugee and asylum seekers?


    Asylum is an American alternative rockband formed in 1981 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, best known for the Grammy-winning 1993 hit "Runaway Train".
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,078
    Anyone here think Team Trump Treason has surfed these pages?

    http://www.unhcr.org/en-us/us-refugee-resettlement-facts.html

    https://www.rescue.org/topic/refugees-america
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    Lerxst1992 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    From the White House:

    “The so-called migrant caravan that's slowly making its way to the U.S. from Central America is many things to many people. But one thing seems pretty certain: it's not about seeking ‘asylum,’ or ‘refugee status.’ It's about getting to the United States at all costs,” the Investor’s Business Daily editorial board writes. “It's time we take our border seriously, or we'll end up like those countries in Europe and the Mideast who find their nations no longer governable.”

    What countries in Europe and the Middle East find themselves "no longer governable?"
    I don't understand why they think these two things are mutually exclusive. Or, I should say, I don't understand why they think enough Americans are stupid enough to believe those things are mutually exclusive... Oh wait... Trump voters. Right.
    I may not be reading your statement right, but there are specific definitions for refugee and asylum. And financial gain is not one of them.
    Who said anything about financial gain?
    But if you think of it in terms of "seeking a better, safe life", that necessarily involves trying to reach financial stability, right?
    Have you looked up the definition for refugee and asylum seekers?


    Asylum is an American alternative rockband formed in 1981 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, best known for the Grammy-winning 1993 hit "Runaway Train".
    You forgot "Soul". I much preferred Black Gold.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,664
    edited October 2018
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    From the White House:

    “The so-called migrant caravan that's slowly making its way to the U.S. from Central America is many things to many people. But one thing seems pretty certain: it's not about seeking ‘asylum,’ or ‘refugee status.’ It's about getting to the United States at all costs,” the Investor’s Business Daily editorial board writes. “It's time we take our border seriously, or we'll end up like those countries in Europe and the Mideast who find their nations no longer governable.”

    What countries in Europe and the Middle East find themselves "no longer governable?"
    I don't understand why they think these two things are mutually exclusive. Or, I should say, I don't understand why they think enough Americans are stupid enough to believe those things are mutually exclusive... Oh wait... Trump voters. Right.
    I may not be reading your statement right, but there are specific definitions for refugee and asylum. And financial gain is not one of them.
    Who said anything about financial gain?
    But if you think of it in terms of "seeking a better, safe life", that necessarily involves trying to reach financial stability, right?
    Have you looked up the definition for refugee and asylum seekers?
    I know what they are, obviously. I don't know where you're going with this.... You know they have to actually establish lives in the place they land, right? And that they are indeed seeking a better, safe life, instead of whatever it is they are fleeing or suffering from?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,458
    financial gain, in this context, to me, means they are coming to 'freeload' or 'get rich off the backs of hardworking americans'. which i do not believe for one second. i believe they are simply looking to flee their oppressors and to give themselves and their kids a decent shot at life. that's what america was 'founded' on. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/08/24/should-birthright-citizenship-be-abolished/birthright-citizenship-is-not-actually-in-the-constitution?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR2Iri-Kh6z0VIqOkVkaoB8sceBjt-FClseUmMmaiNqftvyJzQ8yKFNyq3E
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    unsung said:
    https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/08/24/should-birthright-citizenship-be-abolished/birthright-citizenship-is-not-actually-in-the-constitution?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR2Iri-Kh6z0VIqOkVkaoB8sceBjt-FClseUmMmaiNqftvyJzQ8yKFNyq3E
    Wow look at you citing your source on some obscure opinion from 3 years ago! On a dastardly main stream media outlet's website like the NY Times no doubt!
    Who linked you there? Breitbart? Gatway Pund......oh nevermind--they're going through some issues today. 
    www.myspace.com
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    It’s fun watching the right try to argue simultaneously for a restrictive, narrow interpretation of the 14th amendment and a broad, loose interpretation of the 2nd. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Constitionalists until they’re not. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,826
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    financial gain, in this context, to me, means they are coming to 'freeload' or 'get rich off the backs of hardworking americans'. which i do not believe for one second. i believe they are simply looking to flee their oppressors and to give themselves and their kids a decent shot at life. that's what america was 'founded' on. 
    Financial gain for me means financial gain. To gain financially. 

    That isn’t necessarily freeloading. I guess it could be. But I went to college to get a degree and eventually have a financial gain... no free loading.
    hippiemom = goodness

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