You say they come here to 'Destroy America".... I ask, "How is building a Mosque destroying America?" Are you saying that building Mosques destroys America? If so, then how is Muslims building a Mosques any different from Jews building a Temple? It's the same thing. If you believe that the Muslims should give up everything they left behind in Egypt, Lebannon, Iraq, etc... do you also think that Jews should also leave everything they left behind?
That is the reasoning you are trying to invoke, here. And the only reason I ask you is because of the crap that YOU are saying. Things such as, 'Rounding them up and getting rid of them' and 'Coming here to destroy America'. You are saying the EXACT SAME things that people said about the Japanese here and the Germans said in Europe. To me, that is crap.
You think of yourself as a 'Proud American'... yet, crap on the foundations of America. The America I believe in is the one that opens doors of opportunity based upon freedom. The America you believe in groups all people, in this case, Muslims, into one group and wants to lay the blame of a few at the feet of the whole. Our basic difference is apparently I can distinguish between terrorists and Muslims and you cannot. If that is you opinion of being 'Hippie'... that's on you. Mine is more a belief on being American and believing in the principles that make our nation what it is. Not the tyranny you wish to impose on all Muslims... and others in America's past imposed on all of the Japanese... Whether you like it or not.
The even bigger problem is that it's not just the Muslims on whom he wants to impose tyrrany... it's anyone at all who is not exactly like him and his intolerant vision of exactly what an American should be. Sad. And, more importantly, SCARY. :(
...
How is building a Mosque 'Destroying America'? What about Jew that come here and build Temples? Are they 'Destroying America' , too? Contrary to your strong belief, not every Muslim that comes here is a terrorist. Most of them DO want to assimilate to American society... which guarantees them the freedom of religion. Yet, you want to get rid of them all.
Or... is it your opinion that everyone that comes here needs to convert to Christianity?
more hippie bullshit cosmo ? the jews ? wtf have I said about the jewish people ? you and sbc can save your
crap for someone else.
Godfather.
My name is scb, not sbc. And just because Cosmo is able to understand the world beyong the tip of his own nose does not make him a hippie. (Not that there's anything wrong with being a hippie...)
...
If having a view that sees American principles founded in our Constitution as greater than fear based ignorance stirred up by millionaire entertainment personalities who bilk their simple minded audience by way of the imagery of television... then, I guess I'm a hippie.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
haffajappa can't take that bet bro LOL ! probably get locked soon.
I don't believe that it is wrong to build a temple in America but I do think it is a huge lack of respect to build the muslim temple so close to ground zero.
as for cosmo sbc and the others, you people keep twisting what I post and adding your own bullshit are you really that board or just need somebody to argue with who dose not follow along with your burnt out hippie bullshit ?
really you guys keep throwing in crap like the Jewish thing..wtf is that all about. if it's just a thing to attack me..bring it on, it's all opinion here and you guys seem to think that yours is all high and mighty well I got news for ya...it dose not me mean shit to me and other proud Americans so keep looking for reasons to fight the system in your own little world if thats what makes you all happy,go load up your bong and stare at the Abby Hoffman poster on your wall but don't try and sell it to me.
Godfather.
If we are interpreting your words in ways you didn't mean them, it's your own damn fault. We have asked you, time and time again, to clarify what you are saying. (Refer, for instance, to my post where I asked you to man up and clarify - which you didn't do.) Why don't you just answer our questions instead of avoiding every single one of them? Then we would have a better understanding of what you're trying to say.
haffajappa can't take that bet bro LOL ! probably get locked soon.
I don't believe that it is wrong to build a temple in America but I do think it is a huge lack of respect to build the muslim temple so close to ground zero.
as for cosmo sbc and the others, you people keep twisting what I post and adding your own bullshit are you really that board or just need somebody to argue with who dose not follow along with your burnt out hippie bullshit ?
really you guys keep throwing in crap like the Jewish thing..wtf is that all about. if it's just a thing to attack me..bring it on, it's all opinion here and you guys seem to think that yours is all high and mighty well I got news for ya...it dose not me mean shit to me and other proud Americans so keep looking for reasons to fight the system in your own little world if thats what makes you all happy,go load up your bong and stare at the Abby Hoffman poster on your wall but don't try and sell it to me.
Godfather.
...
Then explain to me why is is okay to build Jewish Temples, but not okay to build Mosques... I am trying to get you to explain your reasoning.
All you can do is come up with moronic name calling when i am trying to figure out the warped logic you employ.
...
And if i am stoned and can come up with pointed opinions and you cannot come up with anything other than idiotic remarks... what are you telling everybody about yourself?
He's not going to explain his reasoning or logic - I have never once seen him do this - because he has no reasoning or logic.
People are so quick to think they are not taken seriously because others disagree with their ideas, but in reality they aren't taken seriously because they can't even explain the ideas they are going on about. I respect any ideas - whether or not I agree with them - that employ logic and reasoning. But it's just really hard to respect people's ideas when they don't seem to have any ideas of their own and all they do is parrot what others say and call people names... and can't even explain why they believe what they believe.
He's not going to explain his reasoning or logic - I have never once seen him do this - because he has no reasoning or logic.
People are so quick to think they are not taken seriously because others disagree with their ideas, but in reality they aren't taken seriously because they can't even explain the ideas they are going on about. I respect any ideas - whether or not I agree with them - that employ logic and reasoning. But it's just really hard to respect people's ideas when they don't seem to have any ideas of their own and all they do is parrot what others say and call people names... and can't even explain why they believe what they believe.
...
Back when tons of Europeans were immigrating to America... there were many Ameicans that felt exactly the same way... send them all back to where they came from. The Irish and Italian immigrants were seen as a problem back then. Especially the italians who set up seperate communities that evolved to the mobsters and criminal enterprises in New York. There were people back then who believed that ALL Italians were associated with organized crime. If those Americans had their way, the immigrant Americans would not have been allowed to stay. It's kind of ironic that the person with the 'Godfather' moniker feels the way he does.
We should learn the lessons from History. I guess Americans greatest problem is... we don't know History.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
He's not going to explain his reasoning or logic - I have never once seen him do this - because he has no reasoning or logic.
People are so quick to think they are not taken seriously because others disagree with their ideas, but in reality they aren't taken seriously because they can't even explain the ideas they are going on about. I respect any ideas - whether or not I agree with them - that employ logic and reasoning. But it's just really hard to respect people's ideas when they don't seem to have any ideas of their own and all they do is parrot what others say and call people names... and can't even explain why they believe what they believe.
...
Back when tons of Europeans were immigrating to America... there were many Ameicans that felt exactly the same way... send them all back to where they came from. The Irish and Italian immigrants were seen as a problem back then. Especially the italians who set up seperate communities that evolved to the mobsters and criminal enterprises in New York. There were people back then who believed that ALL Italians were associated with organized crime. If those Americans had their way, the immigrant Americans would not have been allowed to stay. It's kind of ironic that the person with the 'Godfather' moniker feels the way he does.
We should learn the lessons from History. I guess Americans greatest problem is... we don't know History.
for evidence of this just look at the movie "gangs of new york". although it is fictionalized, the fact remains that the irish immigrants were despised by the "native" inhabitants. not native like in native americans, but native in the sense that they were born here...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero
By Nicole Bliman, CNN
May 7, 2010 3:19 a.m. EDT
New York (CNN) -- Plans to build a mosque two blocks away from ground zero have set off an emotional debate among area residents and relatives of victims of the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.
Cordoba House project calls for a 15-story community center including a mosque, performance art center, gym, swimming pool and other public spaces.
The project is a collaboration between the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative, both of which work to improve relations with followers of the religion.
The two groups presented their vision to part of the Community Board of lower Manhattan on Wednesday night.
Ro Sheffe, a board member who attended the meeting, said the project did not need to get the board's approval.
"They own the land, and their plans don't have any zoning changes," Sheffe said. "They came to us for our opinions and to let us know their plans. It was purely voluntary on their part."
The 12 members who were at the meeting voted unanimously to support the project. Community board members are appointed by the borough president and serve as advisers to the borough president and the mayor's office.
Daisy Khan, executive director of the Muslim society, described her vision of a center led by Muslims, but serving the community as a whole.
"It will have a real community feel, to celebrate the pluralism in the United States, as well as in the Islamic religion," Khan said. "It will also serve as a major platform for amplifying the silent voice of the majority of Muslims who have nothing to do with extremist ideologies. It will counter the extremist momentum."
The need for the center is twofold, Khan said, because it will support the needs of the growing Muslim community.
"The time for a center like this has come because Islam is an American religion," Khan said. "We need to take the 9/11 tragedy and turn it into something very positive."
Sheffe said a community center for lower Manhattan residents is "desperately needed." The area was mostly commercial, Sheffe said, but as more people move downtown, the lack of residential amenities is a problem.
The project got mixed reviews from families and friends of September 11 victims.
"I think it's the right thing to do," said Marvin Bethea, who was a paramedic at ground zero. "I lost 16 friends down there. But Muslims also got killed on 9/11. It would be a good sign of faith that we're not condemning all Muslims and that the Muslims who did this happened to be extremists. As a black man, I know what it's like to be discriminated against when you haven't done anything."
Herbert Ouida, whose son was killed in the attacks, supports the project as a way to bridge cultural divide.
"I understand the anger, the bitterness and hatred, but it only generates more hatred," Ouida said. "Such a large part of the world has this faith, and to say anyone who has this faith is a terrorist, it's terrible."
Others decried the idea of building a mosque so close to where their relatives died.
"Lower Manhattan should be made into a shrine for the people who died there," said Michael Valentin, a retired city detective who worked at ground zero. "It breaks my heart for the families who have to put up with this. I understand they're [building] it in a respectful way, but it just shouldn't be down there."
Others such as Barry Zelman said the site's location will be a painful reminder.
"[The 9/11 terrorists] did this in the name of Islam," Zelman said. "It's a sacred ground where these people died, where my brother was murdered, and to be in the shadows of that religion, it's just hypocritical and sacrilegious. "
However, Khan emphasized that the attacks killed Muslims, too.
"Three hundred of the victims were Muslim, that's 10 percent of the victims," she said. "We are Americans too. The 9/11 tragedy hurt everybody including the Muslim community. We are all in this together and together we have to fight against extremism and terrorism."
Cordoba House is still in its early stages of development. The American Society for Muslim Advancement is hoping to raise funds for the center to be completed in three to five years.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
He's not going to explain his reasoning or logic - I have never once seen him do this - because he has no reasoning or logic.
People are so quick to think they are not taken seriously because others disagree with their ideas, but in reality they aren't taken seriously because they can't even explain the ideas they are going on about. I respect any ideas - whether or not I agree with them - that employ logic and reasoning. But it's just really hard to respect people's ideas when they don't seem to have any ideas of their own and all they do is parrot what others say and call people names... and can't even explain why they believe what they believe.
...
Back when tons of Europeans were immigrating to America... there were many Ameicans that felt exactly the same way... send them all back to where they came from. The Irish and Italian immigrants were seen as a problem back then. Especially the italians who set up seperate communities that evolved to the mobsters and criminal enterprises in New York. There were people back then who believed that ALL Italians were associated with organized crime. If those Americans had their way, the immigrant Americans would not have been allowed to stay. It's kind of ironic that the person with the 'Godfather' moniker feels the way he does.
We should learn the lessons from History. I guess Americans greatest problem is... we don't know History.
I agree - we don't know history. But the counterpart to that problem, in my opinion, is that even when we do know history we too often lack the critical thinking skills to understand it and its application to our lives.
"Three hundred of the victims were Muslim, that's 10 percent of the victims," she said. "We are Americans too. The 9/11 tragedy hurt everybody including the Muslim community. We are all in this together and together we have to fight against extremism and terrorism."
Exactly. These are the points I wish people would understand.
Just to be fair, I'll specifically ask... Godfather and aerial, do you understand/agree with these points?
I don't have a huge problem with this, but i do think it may be in bad taste in ways.
It reminds me of when the Klan put up their cross here on our city square at christmas time.
they have the right to do it in the name of their christian beliefs, but it's also bad form.
I don't know.
I don't really think comparing a Muslim peace group to the KKK is a good analogy. I don't think you meant to imply a similarity between the groups, but I think the implication is there nonetheless.
I also don't think this was meant to be an in-your-face-with-our-religion type of thing. My understanding is that there has been much talk about how best to rebuild this neighborhood and how to turn it into a site for peace and healing instead of war and suffering. Then this group stepped up and suggested that they could build a community center, which the community needs, and it could be a place where all kinds of people could come together as a neighborhood and learn to love one another across their differences. I believe the mosque part is their way of reclaiming Islam from the extremists, and showing the community that it is a peaceful religion, that they don't hate anyone, and that everyone is welcome.
I don't see this as being in any way similar to the KKK claiming your city square for their religion. I understand that some people may see it that way, but I think those would be the people who are ignorant about and bigoted against Muslims. I don't think the community should be denied their opportunity to heal in the way they see fit just to placate some hate groups.
See how
You will never see how twisted your reasoning is....calling Americans hate groups when it’s the Muslim extremist that hate!.....have you not heard about this?
We are rebuilding were the war has devastated their nation (because it is a war) are the Muslims over here rebuilding the world trade center?
I am so fucking sick of this attitude from ignorant, arrogant, hateful, self-righteous fuckers like you! THIS IS NOT JUST YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY. THIS IS MY COUNTRY - AND THE COUNTRY OF MANY, MANY OTHER PEOPLE YOU ACT LIKE AREN'T AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. I didn't call Americans hate groups; I called hate groups hate groups. You and your fucking hate groups are not the only Americans. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT CHRISTIANITY. YOU ARE THE EXTREMISTS. You spout off all your bullshit about freedom all the time and yet try to deny freedom for any Americans who aren't exactly like you. THIS COMMUNITY WANTS A FUCKING MOSQUE. IT'S THEIR COMMUNITY. THEY ARE AMERICANS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WERE ATTACKED WHILE YOU SAT AND WATCHED FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR LIVING ROOM - AND YET YOU WANT TO DENY THEIR FREEDOM TO HEAL IN THEIR OWN WAY AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR COMMUNITY. IF YOU REALLY LOVE AMERICANS AS MUCH AS YOU SAY YOU DO, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE?!?! It's people like YOU who make extremists want to bomb us. It's people like YOU who turn peaceful people into extremists. It's people like YOU who will be the downfall of this whole world. I am ashamed that YOU are party of MY country! If you hate America as much as you act like you do, why don't YOU get the fuck out?? Let me say it again... YOU DON'T REPRESENT THIS COMMUNITY, THIS COUNTRY, OR CHRISTIANITY!! :evil: :evil:
WTF is wrong with you I have opinions just like you.....You post this totally intolerant, hate filled statement... but call me the hater? all I said is “we should be cautious”
you seem to be intolerant to everyone except the damned terrorist just because you think they have good enough reason to strap bombs to themselves and kill Innocent civilians. Because Mothers , grandmothers, wives, PTA presidents, house keepers, never been arrested in there life, Type of people (me) made them mad!
That makes no sense.... ..
I do think that if they were really trying to extent an olive branch to all people why build a mosque? Why not just a Community Center?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
WTF is wrong with you I have opinions just like you.....You post this totally intolerant, hate filled statement... but call me the hater? all I said is “we should be cautious”
you seem to be intolerant to everyone except the damned terrorist just because you think they have good enough reason to strap bombs to themselves and kill Innocent civilians. Because Mothers , grandmothers, wives, PTA presidents, house keepers, never been arrested in there life, Type of people (me) made them mad!
That makes no sense.... ..
I do think that if they were really trying to extent an olive branch to all people why build a mosque? Why not just a Community Center?
because they OWN the land. they can build whatever they want on it. if a catholic group was going to do it would you be opposed to one of the floors in the 15 story building being a new church? jeez...
and yes, you are very intolerant. you are opposed to people that are different from you. that is why everyone argues with you because you have a very childish and immature way of looking at things, and you never back anything up with anything other than with your stereotypes and opinions.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I don't really think comparing a Muslim peace group to the KKK is a good analogy. I don't think you meant to imply a similarity between the groups, but I think the implication is there nonetheless.
I also don't think this was meant to be an in-your-face-with-our-religion type of thing. My understanding is that there has been much talk about how best to rebuild this neighborhood and how to turn it into a site for peace and healing instead of war and suffering. Then this group stepped up and suggested that they could build a community center, which the community needs, and it could be a place where all kinds of people could come together as a neighborhood and learn to love one another across their differences. I believe the mosque part is their way of reclaiming Islam from the extremists, and showing the community that it is a peaceful religion, that they don't hate anyone, and that everyone is welcome.
I don't see this as being in any way similar to the KKK claiming your city square for their religion. I understand that some people may see it that way, but I think those would be the people who are ignorant about and bigoted against Muslims. I don't think the community should be denied their opportunity to heal in the way they see fit just to placate some hate groups.
See how
You will never see how twisted your reasoning is....calling Americans hate groups when it’s the Muslim extremist that hate!.....have you not heard about this?
We are rebuilding were the war has devastated their nation (because it is a war) are the Muslims over here rebuilding the world trade center?
I am so fucking sick of this attitude from ignorant, arrogant, hateful, self-righteous fuckers like you! THIS IS NOT JUST YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY. THIS IS MY COUNTRY - AND THE COUNTRY OF MANY, MANY OTHER PEOPLE YOU ACT LIKE AREN'T AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. I didn't call Americans hate groups; I called hate groups hate groups. You and your fucking hate groups are not the only Americans. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT CHRISTIANITY. YOU ARE THE EXTREMISTS. You spout off all your bullshit about freedom all the time and yet try to deny freedom for any Americans who aren't exactly like you. THIS COMMUNITY WANTS A FUCKING MOSQUE. IT'S THEIR COMMUNITY. THEY ARE AMERICANS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WERE ATTACKED WHILE YOU SAT AND WATCHED FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR LIVING ROOM - AND YET YOU WANT TO DENY THEIR FREEDOM TO HEAL IN THEIR OWN WAY AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR COMMUNITY. IF YOU REALLY LOVE AMERICANS AS MUCH AS YOU SAY YOU DO, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE?!?! It's people like YOU who make extremists want to bomb us. It's people like YOU who turn peaceful people into extremists. It's people like YOU who will be the downfall of this whole world. I am ashamed that YOU are party of MY country! If you hate America as much as you act like you do, why don't YOU get the fuck out?? Let me say it again... YOU DON'T REPRESENT THIS COMMUNITY, THIS COUNTRY, OR CHRISTIANITY!! :evil: :evil:
WTF is wrong with you I have opinions just like you.....You post this totally intolerant, hate filled statement... but call me the hater? all I said is “we should be cautious”
you seem to be intolerant to everyone except the damned terrorist just because you think they have good enough reason to strap bombs to themselves and kill Innocent civilians. Because Mothers , grandmothers, wives, PTA presidents, house keepers, never been arrested in there life, Type of people (me) made them mad!
That makes no sense.... ..
I do think that if they were really trying to extent an olive branch to all people why build a mosque? Why not just a Community Center?
A. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Honestly. I don't.
B. I am upset because when I mentioned hate groups you accused me of speaking of Americans in general, thereby saying the hate groups represent all of America. I am saying that they/you do NOT represent or have the monopoly on this country, and I'm really fucking tired of you acting like you do.
C. Yes, I am intolorant... of hatred and intolorance - not of everyone who's different than me. The difference is that I'm not going around attacking people; I'm just saying you need to STOP attacking them and let Americans have their freedom. Why don't you just leave people alone?
I don't really think comparing a Muslim peace group to the KKK is a good analogy. I don't think you meant to imply a similarity between the groups, but I think the implication is there nonetheless.
I also don't think this was meant to be an in-your-face-with-our-religion type of thing. My understanding is that there has been much talk about how best to rebuild this neighborhood and how to turn it into a site for peace and healing instead of war and suffering. Then this group stepped up and suggested that they could build a community center, which the community needs, and it could be a place where all kinds of people could come together as a neighborhood and learn to love one another across their differences. I believe the mosque part is their way of reclaiming Islam from the extremists, and showing the community that it is a peaceful religion, that they don't hate anyone, and that everyone is welcome.
I don't see this as being in any way similar to the KKK claiming your city square for their religion. I understand that some people may see it that way, but I think those would be the people who are ignorant about and bigoted against Muslims. I don't think the community should be denied their opportunity to heal in the way they see fit just to placate some hate groups.
You will never see how twisted your reasoning is....calling Americans hate groups when it’s the Muslim extremist that hate!.....have you not heard about this?
We are rebuilding were the war has devastated their nation (because it is a war) are the Muslims over here rebuilding the world trade center?
I am so fucking sick of this attitude from ignorant, arrogant, hateful, self-righteous fuckers like you! THIS IS NOT JUST YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY. THIS IS MY COUNTRY - AND THE COUNTRY OF MANY, MANY OTHER PEOPLE YOU ACT LIKE AREN'T AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. I didn't call Americans hate groups; I called hate groups hate groups. You and your fucking hate groups are not the only Americans. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT CHRISTIANITY. YOU ARE THE EXTREMISTS. You spout off all your bullshit about freedom all the time and yet try to deny freedom for any Americans who aren't exactly like you. THIS COMMUNITY WANTS A FUCKING MOSQUE. IT'S THEIR COMMUNITY. THEY ARE AMERICANS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WERE ATTACKED WHILE YOU SAT AND WATCHED FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR LIVING ROOM - AND YET YOU WANT TO DENY THEIR FREEDOM TO HEAL IN THEIR OWN WAY AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR COMMUNITY. IF YOU REALLY LOVE AMERICANS AS MUCH AS YOU SAY YOU DO, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE?!?! It's people like YOU who make extremists want to bomb us. It's people like YOU who turn peaceful people into extremists. It's people like YOU who will be the downfall of this whole world. I am ashamed that YOU are party of MY country! If you hate America as much as you act like you do, why don't YOU get the fuck out?? Let me say it again... YOU DON'T REPRESENT THIS COMMUNITY, THIS COUNTRY, OR CHRISTIANITY!! :evil: :evil:
WTF is wrong with you I have opinions just like you.....You post this totally intolerant, hate filled statement... but call me the hater? all I said is “we should be cautious”
you seem to be intolerant to everyone except the damned terrorist just because you think they have good enough reason to strap bombs to themselves and kill Innocent civilians. Because Mothers , grandmothers, wives, PTA presidents, house keepers, never been arrested in there life, Type of people (me) made them mad!
That makes no sense.... ..
I do think that if they were really trying to extent an olive branch to all people why build a mosque? Why not just a Community Center?
A. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Honestly. I don't.
B. I am upset because when I mentioned hate groups you accused me of speaking of Americans in general, thereby saying the hate groups represent all of America. I am saying that they/you do NOT represent or have the monopoly on this country, and I'm really fucking tired of you acting like you do.
C. Yes, I am intolorant... of hatred and intolorance - not of everyone who's different than me. The difference is that I'm not going around attacking people; I'm just saying you need to STOP attacking them and let Americans have their freedom. Why don't you just leave people alone?
b...I never said I have
or insinuated that I have a monopoly on anything....
c...You must have me confused with someone else...I am not attacking anyone and never have....you know nothing about me yet you want to hate me.....why don't you take a little break away from the MT.....I think a little dose of reality will do you good....how can you hate someone you don’t know....and believe me YOU do NOT know me...take a break I think you need one
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
quote from cosmo: "I hope he is not allowed to preach about that whole anti-American/fundamentalist Islamic religion crap in open court. But, im guessing... he will.
And instead of the Death Penalty... how about a 297,300 year sentence with no parole eligability at Pelican Bay, California in the Neo-Nazi psychos cell block... and rooming with the multiple murderer who partially ate some of his victims?
That would make Camp X-Ray, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba look like a stint at Club Med."
I like it !! :thumbup:
I think your catching on.
Godfather.
...
When put into context... the subject matter were individual terrorists. Specifically, the John Belushi looking shiek being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba where I was not opposed to preserving the principles of American Justice. Because i believe in America remaining America and not giving into terrorist wishes and becoming less like us and more like them.
So, yes... i stand by those comments because i am speaking of individual terrorists.. not Muslims as a whole. And please, do not confuse my attitude towards known terrorists as coming around in agreement of your perverted view of what you perceive as Patriotism... because it's miles away from that.
cosmo that was just a joke pointed at you with no ill feelings / in one post your a muslim supporter and the other you want these guys (only the bad guys) to suffer not to mention I have read post by someone on here who was saying that the terrorist may have a good reason to do what they did at this point I don't really believe most of you on here have no real interest in these events and issues we have posted about I think you all just enjoy debate,if the shoe was on the other foot I think you guys would attack anybody that disagreed with you just for the sake of debate...and thats why I don't think I have to give scb or anybody else my reasons for my opinion,what would be the point ? you guys attacked Aerial for no damn good reason at all other than to get a rise out of her then when I do it to you all you act butt hurt or better than everyone else,if thats the game you want to play....cool lets play, I'm in
i tried to get this thread back on topic by posting a credible article about it and nobody replied to anything in the article...i think i am going to head to the gym, i think i can have a better conversation with a stack of weights and a treadmill television...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
A. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Honestly. I don't.
B. I am upset because when I mentioned hate groups you accused me of speaking of Americans in general, thereby saying the hate groups represent all of America. I am saying that they/you do NOT represent or have the monopoly on this country, and I'm really fucking tired of you acting like you do.
C. Yes, I am intolorant... of hatred and intolorance - not of everyone who's different than me. The difference is that I'm not going around attacking people; I'm just saying you need to STOP attacking them and let Americans have their freedom. Why don't you just leave people alone?
b...I never said I have
or insinuated that I have a monopoly on anything....
c...You must have me confused with someone else...I am not attacking anyone and never have....you know nothing about me yet you want to hate me.....why don't you take a little break away from the MT.....I think a little dose of reality will do you good....how can you hate someone you don’t know....and believe me YOU do NOT know me...take a break I think you need one
B. Most everything you post implies that you get to define what it means to be American. Let me ask you this: When I referred to hate groups, why did you turn it around and say I was calling Americans hate groups?
C. I don't have you confused with someone else. I know of you what you say on this forum and, as I have said before, I think much of what you say is ignorant and hateful. That's not the same as thinking I know you or as hating you. I don't hate you. I pity you and I'm afraid of you and what people like you might do (have done) to this country and to others in the world.
i tried to get this thread back on topic by posting a credible article about it and nobody replied to anything in the article...i think i am going to head to the gym, i think i can have a better conversation with a stack of weights and a treadmill television...
I replied. I thought it was a pretty good article... except for the one-sided headline.
haffajappa can't take that bet bro LOL ! probably get locked soon.
I don't believe that it is wrong to build a temple in America but I do think it is a huge lack of respect to build the muslim temple so close to ground zero.
as for cosmo sbc and the others, you people keep twisting what I post and adding your own bullshit are you really that board or just need somebody to argue with who dose not follow along with your burnt out hippie bullshit ?
really you guys keep throwing in crap like the Jewish thing..wtf is that all about. if it's just a thing to attack me..bring it on, it's all opinion here and you guys seem to think that yours is all high and mighty well I got news for ya...it dose not me mean shit to me and other proud Americans so keep looking for reasons to fight the system in your own little world if thats what makes you all happy,go load up your bong and stare at the Abby Hoffman poster on your wall but don't try and sell it to me.
Godfather.
they bring up the jewish thing because you seem to be wanting muslims to not be able to build a mosque, so in asking if this goes for any other religion they use a jewish synagogue/temple as an example. would you feel better if they changed it to buddhist temple?
we have a muslim temple/church 5-6 blocks from my house and right next door is a christian church and I'm good with it, I don't like the idea of having a muslim church so close to ground zero...thats all ! to me it's about respect and thats something a lot of people on here seem to lack for others, I don't care who you are or where your from we all want the same thing (terrorist aside) and if my opinion is not the same as yours....thats life get over it.
this whole thing started because I said I thought it was bullshit and scb wants my reason for thinking that,well I don't need to give her or anybody else my reason...plain and simple.
haffajappa can't take that bet bro LOL ! probably get locked soon.
I don't believe that it is wrong to build a temple in America but I do think it is a huge lack of respect to build the muslim temple so close to ground zero.
as for cosmo sbc and the others, you people keep twisting what I post and adding your own bullshit are you really that board or just need somebody to argue with who dose not follow along with your burnt out hippie bullshit ?
really you guys keep throwing in crap like the Jewish thing..wtf is that all about. if it's just a thing to attack me..bring it on, it's all opinion here and you guys seem to think that yours is all high and mighty well I got news for ya...it dose not me mean shit to me and other proud Americans so keep looking for reasons to fight the system in your own little world if thats what makes you all happy,go load up your bong and stare at the Abby Hoffman poster on your wall but don't try and sell it to me.
Godfather.
they bring up the jewish thing because you seem to be wanting muslims to not be able to build a mosque, so in asking if this goes for any other religion they use a jewish synagogue/temple as an example. would you feel better if they changed it to buddhist temple?
we have a muslim temple/church 5-6 blocks from my house and right next door is a christian church and I'm good with it, I don't like the idea of having a muslim church so close to ground zero...thats all ! to me it's about respect and thats something a lot of people on here seem to lack for others, I don't care who you are or where your from we all want the same thing (terrorist aside) and if my opinion is not the same as yours....thats life get over it.
this whole thing started because I said I thought it was bullshit and scb wants my reason for thinking that,well I don't need to give her or anybody else my reason...plain and simple.
Godfather.
I first asked you to clarify what you meant (which is not the same as asking for your reasoning):
Who exactly should we send packing and how far should we send them? Should we ban all mosques within a certain radius of ground zero? Should we send all Muslims out of the United States? Should we refuse to allow a community center to be built in a neighborhood that desperately needs one if it's built by a Muslim? Could you be more specific, please?
But of course you refused to clarify (although you accused me of believing x, y, & z) - and then later got pissy with us for supposedly twisting your words.
i tried to get this thread back on topic by posting a credible article about it and nobody replied to anything in the article...i think i am going to head to the gym, i think i can have a better conversation with a stack of weights and a treadmill television...
if what the muslims are saying is really in their hearts thats good but I have to agree that it would be a great disrespect to ALL the family's of the victims.
scb you have a habit of trying to put words in peoples mouths thats why my replys are limited with you..
in all honesty there is no hate from me towards you but I don't care to dance around your questions to my opinions when you add thing like the Jewish thing or the german thing, my opinion is just that ...my opinion.
cosmo that was just a joke pointed at you with no ill feelings / in one post your a muslim supporter and the other you want these guys (only the bad guys) to suffer not to mention I have read post by someone on here who was saying that the terrorist may have a good reason to do what they did at this point I don't really believe most of you on here have no real interest in these events and issues we have posted about I think you all just enjoy debate,if the shoe was on the other foot I think you guys would attack anybody that disagreed with you just for the sake of debate...and thats why I don't think I have to give scb or anybody else my reasons for my opinion,what would be the point ? you guys attacked Aerial for no damn good reason at all other than to get a rise out of her then when I do it to you all you act butt hurt or better than everyone else,if thats the game you want to play....cool lets play, I'm in
Godfather.
...
I don't argue for the sake of arguement. I counter points that are made... in this specific case, the point you initially made about rounding them all up and sending them back to where they came from and the opinion expressed about leaving everything about them in their country of origin. I believe this is an opinion that is dangerous and counter to the foundations of America. I pointed out historical examples about this type of viewpoints towards entire groups of people, both in Europe against the Jew and in America against the Japanese.
Your view is that since Islamic fundamentalist attacked us, ALL Muslims must be a part of it. I don't see it that way. To me... it would be just as stupid to believe that all Christians were Klansmen or Neo-Nazis... or since most serial kilers have been white males, all white males must be serial killers. That is ridiculous logic, whether you are talking about Muslims or Christians or serial killers. I can differentiate between criminals and ethnicities.
Personally, i don't care about your opinions. i am just trying to get you to explain the reasoning and logic you employ that gets you to the opinion that building a Mosque is an act against America. And the whole, 'Leaving everything from their former country over there and not bringing it here'. If it is not okay with you for them to build a Mosque... why is it okay for Jews to build Jewish Temples? Your logic would state, they should leave their Judaism back in Jeruselem. Your reasoning makes no sense to me and is contradictory at best... discrimatory at worst. I'm giving you a chance to explain yourself, rather than simply accepting the self-portrait you paint yourself as an ignorant, prejudiced person.
Now, regarding my statements about Sheik Belushi... I would feel the same way if he were Irish, German, Italian, Japanese, Nigerian or whatever. My views are aimed at his actions, not his ethnicity or religion. There is no contradiction on my part.
Also, I DO have real interests in issues involving discrimination, even if it is percieved to be good. The Germans believed they were doing what was best for Germany at that time. Just as the Americans believed that shipping Americans of Japanese descent to internment camps were in the best interests of America at that time. They may have made sense back then.. but, do you believe they were the right things to do? You are making the same assumptions that those people made in the past and are following in the same footsteps as them.
And YES... I am a supporter of LAW ABIDING Muslims. The same way I support law abiding Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Aetheists. I do not prescribe to any religion, but i believe in the freedom of religion granted to all Americans by our Constitution. I believe in proscuting the criminals, not the religion.
You can be prejudice and hold feelings of discrimination towards others... that is your right. But, don't expect me to sit silent about it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
scb you have a habit of trying to put words in peoples mouths thats why my replys are limited with you..
in all honesty there is no hate from me towards you but I don't care to dance around your questions to my opinions when you add thing like the Jewish thing or the german thing, my opinion is just that ...my opinion.
Godfather.
Hey Godfather I took the time to go through this entire thread and this should be right up your alley about the THING. It's incredible what has been said and you've said so far but you may like this one.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
No I am not...I am saying we should be Cautious ....
Cautious of WHAT??? OK. Let me 'splain it to you, Lucy... because you are obviously not aware of what it is like here in New York. Everywhere you go... there are people of different races and ethnicities, and with many differing religious beliefs. There are many, many Muslim people. My son's best friend at school is Shar, Muslim. There are tons of Muslims. We are to be cautious of them building a COMMUNITY CENTER AND A MOSQUE? You don't think that stating we should be cautious of this is hateful, fear-mongering BULLSHIT?
I personally knew four people who were killed on 9/11... was at two funerals.... Horrible. Most everyone I know (in NY) knew someone who died that day....
Additionally, I knew one person well who was killed years before when the Trade Center was bombed in 1993. Her name was Monica Smith. She was six months pregnant. I knew her, her husband and two of her three brothers through a close friendship with her sister in law with whom i worked for four years leading up to the bombing that day. We waited ALL DAY LONG to hear from Monica. We heard about the bombing... I told "Cara", her sister in law, not to worry... Then we heard which tower... I told her not to worry.. then we heard the basement... i told her not to worry... Cara and I had plans to go out that night... they never heard from Monica... she was dead... Her wake, with her pregnant belly in the casket was one of the most heart-wrenching of experiences... I asked Cara what she thought of this mosque.
She is not opposed.
But you know... Monica's family was from Equador. She was buried back in Equador. Her parents speak very little English... so I guess they all had no right being here anyway, huh?
Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero
By Nicole Bliman, CNN
May 7, 2010 3:19 a.m. EDT
Here are some important parts...
The 12 members who were at the meeting voted unanimously to support the project. Community board members are appointed by the borough president and serve as advisers to the borough president and the mayor's office.
"Three hundred of the victims were Muslim, that's 10 percent of the victims," she said. "We are Americans too. The 9/11 tragedy hurt everybody including the Muslim community. We are all in this together and together we have to fight against extremism and terrorism."
Cordoba House is still in its early stages of development. The American Society for Muslim Advancement is hoping to raise funds for the center to be completed in three to five years.
i tried to get this thread back on topic by posting a credible article about it and nobody replied to anything in the article...i think i am going to head to the gym, i think i can have a better conversation with a stack of weights and a treadmill television...
if what the muslims are saying is really in their hearts thats good but I have to agree that it would be a great disrespect to ALL the family's of the victims.
Godfather.
Dude, how in hell can you say it's a disrespect to ALL the families of the victims when MANY OF THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES SUPPORT IT?? Some of the victims and/or their families are actually part of the group that's bringing this there. Seriously - how can you tell people who were victims of these attacks that their way of healing their own lives and community is not appropriate? YOU are the one who is disrespecting the victims.
Dude, how in hell can you say it's a disrespect to ALL the families of the victims when MANY OF THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES SUPPORT IT?? Some of the victims and/or their families are actually part of the group that's bringing this there. Seriously - how can you tell people who were victims of these attacks that their way of healing their own lives and community is not appropriate? YOU are the one who is disrespecting the victims.
scb you have a habit of trying to put words in peoples mouths thats why my replys are limited with you..
in all honesty there is no hate from me towards you but I don't care to dance around your questions to my opinions when you add thing like the Jewish thing or the german thing, my opinion is just that ...my opinion.
Godfather.
:roll: :roll:
I have only tried to clarify what you are saying. When you refuse to be clear, I have no choice but to understand what YOU say however I understand it. And I can't help but notice that most everyone else around here understands it in the same way - and you don't clarify for them either.
And talk about putting words in people's mouths!! What the fuck are you talking about, accusing me of "adding the Jewish thing"?? I'm not even the one who fucking said that. Geeze Louise!! Try to get a grip on reality!
Dude, how in hell can you say it's a disrespect to ALL the families of the victims when MANY OF THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES SUPPORT IT?? Some of the victims and/or their families are actually part of the group that's bringing this there. Seriously - how can you tell people who were victims of these attacks that their way of healing their own lives and community is not appropriate? YOU are the one who is disrespecting the victims.
Absolutely.
I'm starting to think we should require exams in basic logic and reasoning before anyone over a certain age or IQ - including those who were born here - can become a citizen.
i tried to get this thread back on topic by posting a credible article about it and nobody replied to anything in the article...i think i am going to head to the gym, i think i can have a better conversation with a stack of weights and a treadmill television...
if what the muslims are saying is really in their hearts thats good but I have to agree that it would be a great disrespect to ALL the family's of the victims.
Godfather.
Dude, how in hell can you say it's a disrespect to ALL the families of the victims when MANY OF THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES SUPPORT IT?? Some of the victims and/or their families are actually part of the group that's bringing this there. Seriously - how can you tell people who were victims of these attacks that their way of healing their own lives and community is not appropriate? YOU are the one who is disrespecting the victims.
good grief I'm glad we're not neighbors you would drive me crazy.
that is just my thought on it,if some the family's of the victims don't mind....cool but what about the other family's that do mind ? do they count in this at all ?
Comments
The even bigger problem is that it's not just the Muslims on whom he wants to impose tyrrany... it's anyone at all who is not exactly like him and his intolerant vision of exactly what an American should be. Sad. And, more importantly, SCARY. :(
If having a view that sees American principles founded in our Constitution as greater than fear based ignorance stirred up by millionaire entertainment personalities who bilk their simple minded audience by way of the imagery of television... then, I guess I'm a hippie.
Hail, Hail!!!
If we are interpreting your words in ways you didn't mean them, it's your own damn fault. We have asked you, time and time again, to clarify what you are saying. (Refer, for instance, to my post where I asked you to man up and clarify - which you didn't do.) Why don't you just answer our questions instead of avoiding every single one of them? Then we would have a better understanding of what you're trying to say.
He's not going to explain his reasoning or logic - I have never once seen him do this - because he has no reasoning or logic.
People are so quick to think they are not taken seriously because others disagree with their ideas, but in reality they aren't taken seriously because they can't even explain the ideas they are going on about. I respect any ideas - whether or not I agree with them - that employ logic and reasoning. But it's just really hard to respect people's ideas when they don't seem to have any ideas of their own and all they do is parrot what others say and call people names... and can't even explain why they believe what they believe.
Back when tons of Europeans were immigrating to America... there were many Ameicans that felt exactly the same way... send them all back to where they came from. The Irish and Italian immigrants were seen as a problem back then. Especially the italians who set up seperate communities that evolved to the mobsters and criminal enterprises in New York. There were people back then who believed that ALL Italians were associated with organized crime. If those Americans had their way, the immigrant Americans would not have been allowed to stay. It's kind of ironic that the person with the 'Godfather' moniker feels the way he does.
We should learn the lessons from History. I guess Americans greatest problem is... we don't know History.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/07/new.yo ... index.html
Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero
By Nicole Bliman, CNN
May 7, 2010 3:19 a.m. EDT
New York (CNN) -- Plans to build a mosque two blocks away from ground zero have set off an emotional debate among area residents and relatives of victims of the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.
Cordoba House project calls for a 15-story community center including a mosque, performance art center, gym, swimming pool and other public spaces.
The project is a collaboration between the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative, both of which work to improve relations with followers of the religion.
The two groups presented their vision to part of the Community Board of lower Manhattan on Wednesday night.
Ro Sheffe, a board member who attended the meeting, said the project did not need to get the board's approval.
"They own the land, and their plans don't have any zoning changes," Sheffe said. "They came to us for our opinions and to let us know their plans. It was purely voluntary on their part."
The 12 members who were at the meeting voted unanimously to support the project. Community board members are appointed by the borough president and serve as advisers to the borough president and the mayor's office.
Daisy Khan, executive director of the Muslim society, described her vision of a center led by Muslims, but serving the community as a whole.
"It will have a real community feel, to celebrate the pluralism in the United States, as well as in the Islamic religion," Khan said. "It will also serve as a major platform for amplifying the silent voice of the majority of Muslims who have nothing to do with extremist ideologies. It will counter the extremist momentum."
The need for the center is twofold, Khan said, because it will support the needs of the growing Muslim community.
"The time for a center like this has come because Islam is an American religion," Khan said. "We need to take the 9/11 tragedy and turn it into something very positive."
Sheffe said a community center for lower Manhattan residents is "desperately needed." The area was mostly commercial, Sheffe said, but as more people move downtown, the lack of residential amenities is a problem.
The project got mixed reviews from families and friends of September 11 victims.
"I think it's the right thing to do," said Marvin Bethea, who was a paramedic at ground zero. "I lost 16 friends down there. But Muslims also got killed on 9/11. It would be a good sign of faith that we're not condemning all Muslims and that the Muslims who did this happened to be extremists. As a black man, I know what it's like to be discriminated against when you haven't done anything."
Herbert Ouida, whose son was killed in the attacks, supports the project as a way to bridge cultural divide.
"I understand the anger, the bitterness and hatred, but it only generates more hatred," Ouida said. "Such a large part of the world has this faith, and to say anyone who has this faith is a terrorist, it's terrible."
Others decried the idea of building a mosque so close to where their relatives died.
"Lower Manhattan should be made into a shrine for the people who died there," said Michael Valentin, a retired city detective who worked at ground zero. "It breaks my heart for the families who have to put up with this. I understand they're [building] it in a respectful way, but it just shouldn't be down there."
Others such as Barry Zelman said the site's location will be a painful reminder.
"[The 9/11 terrorists] did this in the name of Islam," Zelman said. "It's a sacred ground where these people died, where my brother was murdered, and to be in the shadows of that religion, it's just hypocritical and sacrilegious. "
However, Khan emphasized that the attacks killed Muslims, too.
"Three hundred of the victims were Muslim, that's 10 percent of the victims," she said. "We are Americans too. The 9/11 tragedy hurt everybody including the Muslim community. We are all in this together and together we have to fight against extremism and terrorism."
Cordoba House is still in its early stages of development. The American Society for Muslim Advancement is hoping to raise funds for the center to be completed in three to five years.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I agree - we don't know history. But the counterpart to that problem, in my opinion, is that even when we do know history we too often lack the critical thinking skills to understand it and its application to our lives.
Exactly. These are the points I wish people would understand.
Just to be fair, I'll specifically ask... Godfather and aerial, do you understand/agree with these points?
WTF is wrong with you I have opinions just like you.....You post this totally intolerant, hate filled statement... but call me the hater? all I said is “we should be cautious”
you seem to be intolerant to everyone except the damned terrorist just because you think they have good enough reason to strap bombs to themselves and kill Innocent civilians. Because Mothers , grandmothers, wives, PTA presidents, house keepers, never been arrested in there life, Type of people (me) made them mad!
That makes no sense.... ..
I do think that if they were really trying to extent an olive branch to all people why build a mosque? Why not just a Community Center?
and yes, you are very intolerant. you are opposed to people that are different from you. that is why everyone argues with you because you have a very childish and immature way of looking at things, and you never back anything up with anything other than with your stereotypes and opinions.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
A. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Honestly. I don't.
B. I am upset because when I mentioned hate groups you accused me of speaking of Americans in general, thereby saying the hate groups represent all of America. I am saying that they/you do NOT represent or have the monopoly on this country, and I'm really fucking tired of you acting like you do.
C. Yes, I am intolorant... of hatred and intolorance - not of everyone who's different than me. The difference is that I'm not going around attacking people; I'm just saying you need to STOP attacking them and let Americans have their freedom. Why don't you just leave people alone?
b...I never said I have
or insinuated that I have a monopoly on anything....
c...You must have me confused with someone else...I am not attacking anyone and never have....you know nothing about me yet you want to hate me.....why don't you take a little break away from the MT.....I think a little dose of reality will do you good....how can you hate someone you don’t know....and believe me YOU do NOT know me...take a break I think you need one
cosmo that was just a joke pointed at you with no ill feelings / in one post your a muslim supporter and the other you want these guys (only the bad guys) to suffer not to mention I have read post by someone on here who was saying that the terrorist may have a good reason to do what they did at this point I don't really believe most of you on here have no real interest in these events and issues we have posted about I think you all just enjoy debate,if the shoe was on the other foot I think you guys would attack anybody that disagreed with you just for the sake of debate...and thats why I don't think I have to give scb or anybody else my reasons for my opinion,what would be the point ? you guys attacked Aerial for no damn good reason at all other than to get a rise out of her then when I do it to you all you act butt hurt or better than everyone else,if thats the game you want to play....cool lets play, I'm in
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
B. Most everything you post implies that you get to define what it means to be American. Let me ask you this: When I referred to hate groups, why did you turn it around and say I was calling Americans hate groups?
C. I don't have you confused with someone else. I know of you what you say on this forum and, as I have said before, I think much of what you say is ignorant and hateful. That's not the same as thinking I know you or as hating you. I don't hate you. I pity you and I'm afraid of you and what people like you might do (have done) to this country and to others in the world.
I replied. I thought it was a pretty good article... except for the one-sided headline.
we have a muslim temple/church 5-6 blocks from my house and right next door is a christian church and I'm good with it, I don't like the idea of having a muslim church so close to ground zero...thats all ! to me it's about respect and thats something a lot of people on here seem to lack for others, I don't care who you are or where your from we all want the same thing (terrorist aside) and if my opinion is not the same as yours....thats life get over it.
this whole thing started because I said I thought it was bullshit and scb wants my reason for thinking that,well I don't need to give her or anybody else my reason...plain and simple.
Godfather.
I first asked you to clarify what you meant (which is not the same as asking for your reasoning):
But of course you refused to clarify (although you accused me of believing x, y, & z) - and then later got pissy with us for supposedly twisting your words.
if what the muslims are saying is really in their hearts thats good but I have to agree that it would be a great disrespect to ALL the family's of the victims.
Godfather.
in all honesty there is no hate from me towards you but I don't care to dance around your questions to my opinions when you add thing like the Jewish thing or the german thing, my opinion is just that ...my opinion.
Godfather.
I don't argue for the sake of arguement. I counter points that are made... in this specific case, the point you initially made about rounding them all up and sending them back to where they came from and the opinion expressed about leaving everything about them in their country of origin. I believe this is an opinion that is dangerous and counter to the foundations of America. I pointed out historical examples about this type of viewpoints towards entire groups of people, both in Europe against the Jew and in America against the Japanese.
Your view is that since Islamic fundamentalist attacked us, ALL Muslims must be a part of it. I don't see it that way. To me... it would be just as stupid to believe that all Christians were Klansmen or Neo-Nazis... or since most serial kilers have been white males, all white males must be serial killers. That is ridiculous logic, whether you are talking about Muslims or Christians or serial killers. I can differentiate between criminals and ethnicities.
Personally, i don't care about your opinions. i am just trying to get you to explain the reasoning and logic you employ that gets you to the opinion that building a Mosque is an act against America. And the whole, 'Leaving everything from their former country over there and not bringing it here'. If it is not okay with you for them to build a Mosque... why is it okay for Jews to build Jewish Temples? Your logic would state, they should leave their Judaism back in Jeruselem. Your reasoning makes no sense to me and is contradictory at best... discrimatory at worst. I'm giving you a chance to explain yourself, rather than simply accepting the self-portrait you paint yourself as an ignorant, prejudiced person.
Now, regarding my statements about Sheik Belushi... I would feel the same way if he were Irish, German, Italian, Japanese, Nigerian or whatever. My views are aimed at his actions, not his ethnicity or religion. There is no contradiction on my part.
Also, I DO have real interests in issues involving discrimination, even if it is percieved to be good. The Germans believed they were doing what was best for Germany at that time. Just as the Americans believed that shipping Americans of Japanese descent to internment camps were in the best interests of America at that time. They may have made sense back then.. but, do you believe they were the right things to do? You are making the same assumptions that those people made in the past and are following in the same footsteps as them.
And YES... I am a supporter of LAW ABIDING Muslims. The same way I support law abiding Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Aetheists. I do not prescribe to any religion, but i believe in the freedom of religion granted to all Americans by our Constitution. I believe in proscuting the criminals, not the religion.
You can be prejudice and hold feelings of discrimination towards others... that is your right. But, don't expect me to sit silent about it.
Hail, Hail!!!
Hey Godfather I took the time to go through this entire thread and this should be right up your alley about the THING. It's incredible what has been said and you've said so far but you may like this one.
The first or the second THING
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Cautious of WHAT??? OK. Let me 'splain it to you, Lucy... because you are obviously not aware of what it is like here in New York. Everywhere you go... there are people of different races and ethnicities, and with many differing religious beliefs. There are many, many Muslim people. My son's best friend at school is Shar, Muslim. There are tons of Muslims. We are to be cautious of them building a COMMUNITY CENTER AND A MOSQUE? You don't think that stating we should be cautious of this is hateful, fear-mongering BULLSHIT?
I personally knew four people who were killed on 9/11... was at two funerals.... Horrible. Most everyone I know (in NY) knew someone who died that day....
Additionally, I knew one person well who was killed years before when the Trade Center was bombed in 1993. Her name was Monica Smith. She was six months pregnant. I knew her, her husband and two of her three brothers through a close friendship with her sister in law with whom i worked for four years leading up to the bombing that day. We waited ALL DAY LONG to hear from Monica. We heard about the bombing... I told "Cara", her sister in law, not to worry... Then we heard which tower... I told her not to worry.. then we heard the basement... i told her not to worry... Cara and I had plans to go out that night... they never heard from Monica... she was dead... Her wake, with her pregnant belly in the casket was one of the most heart-wrenching of experiences... I asked Cara what she thought of this mosque.
She is not opposed.
But you know... Monica's family was from Equador. She was buried back in Equador. Her parents speak very little English... so I guess they all had no right being here anyway, huh?
ps- Did you read this article??
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/07/new.yo ... index.html
Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero
By Nicole Bliman, CNN
May 7, 2010 3:19 a.m. EDT
Here are some important parts...
The 12 members who were at the meeting voted unanimously to support the project. Community board members are appointed by the borough president and serve as advisers to the borough president and the mayor's office.
"Three hundred of the victims were Muslim, that's 10 percent of the victims," she said. "We are Americans too. The 9/11 tragedy hurt everybody including the Muslim community. We are all in this together and together we have to fight against extremism and terrorism."
Cordoba House is still in its early stages of development. The American Society for Muslim Advancement is hoping to raise funds for the center to be completed in three to five years.
Dude, how in hell can you say it's a disrespect to ALL the families of the victims when MANY OF THE VICTIMS AND THEIR FAMILIES SUPPORT IT?? Some of the victims and/or their families are actually part of the group that's bringing this there. Seriously - how can you tell people who were victims of these attacks that their way of healing their own lives and community is not appropriate? YOU are the one who is disrespecting the victims.
Absolutely.
:roll: :roll:
I have only tried to clarify what you are saying. When you refuse to be clear, I have no choice but to understand what YOU say however I understand it. And I can't help but notice that most everyone else around here understands it in the same way - and you don't clarify for them either.
And talk about putting words in people's mouths!! What the fuck are you talking about, accusing me of "adding the Jewish thing"?? I'm not even the one who fucking said that. Geeze Louise!! Try to get a grip on reality!
I'm starting to think we should require exams in basic logic and reasoning before anyone over a certain age or IQ - including those who were born here - can become a citizen.
good grief I'm glad we're not neighbors you would drive me crazy.
that is just my thought on it,if some the family's of the victims don't mind....cool but what about the other family's that do mind ? do they count in this at all ?
Godfather.