MLB 2025 World Series

The Juggler

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Bonds Clemens, Murphy should make it no problem.

McGriff and Schilling are on the cusp.

Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.

People cry for Keith Hernandez?  Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.

Hernandez is not in that group.
Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?

No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!

I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.

Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.

I give Mattingly the edge over Keith 

DewieCox

Schillings a fun case. Maybe the bloody sock/very thin line between him and Wainwright is the divide,  but I say keep
him out to keep the snowflakes crying. 

F Me In The Brain

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Bonds Clemens, Murphy should make it no problem.

McGriff and Schilling are on the cusp.

Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.

People cry for Keith Hernandez?  Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.

Hernandez is not in that group.
Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?

No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!

I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.

Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.

I give Mattingly the edge over Keith 

Possibly the least surprising hot take ever read here.
You are likely the biggest Mattingly fan I know of.  Of course you give him the edge over Hernandez.    cmon

I like your Fandom but agree with the others here that in head to head, over their careers, KH gets the win.

igotid88

tempo_n_groove said:

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Bonds Clemens, Murphy should make it no problem.

McGriff and Schilling are on the cusp.

Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.

People cry for Keith Hernandez?  Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.

Hernandez is not in that group.
Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?

No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!

I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.

Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.

I give Mattingly the edge over Keith 

Keith led a team and won a WS though.  Had a much better WAR and both are 300 AB's apart.

I think Doc, Daryl, Darling ,Knight, Mookie, Sid, Ojeda, and Carter also had something to do with it also. Keith also played 303 more games and had 831 more Plate Appearances. Both retired young but Mattingly was still a good player with his bad back. Keith couldn't hit by the end.

There's only 300 AB's apart from them though.  Hernandez has twice as many walks.  Keith also won gold gloves at the end of his career as did Matingly.

For flash I go w Donnie Baseball as he put a string of a few years very nicely.  Career I like Keith.

Knight, Mookie and Sid had very, very brief flashes of goodness.  They weren't very good in their good seasons...  Dykstra and Backman were better than Mookie.  

Not going to argue about Carter.  He was good, so was Daryl.

Didn't Mattingly have Winfield and Henderson?

Thinking back to that 86 season Yanks have 3 HOF?  Mets only 1?  I think Carter is the only HOFer from the Mets.

Mets had the pitching. Doc was HOF in waiting if he had not ruined it with his addiction.  Mattingly had good hitting teams. I believe the Yankees had the most wins in the 80s. But unfortunately they didn't have a wild card then

igotid88

F Me In The Brain said:

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Bonds Clemens, Murphy should make it no problem.

McGriff and Schilling are on the cusp.

Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.

People cry for Keith Hernandez?  Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.

Hernandez is not in that group.
Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?

No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!

I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.

Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.

I give Mattingly the edge over Keith 

Possibly the least surprising hot take ever read here.
You are likely the biggest Mattingly fan I know of.  Of course you give him the edge over Hernandez.    cmon

I like your Fandom but agree with the others here that in head to head, over their careers, KH gets the win.

Because he won a World Series? I like Keith and think he deserves a chance. But if Mattingly didn't have his bad back he would have trounced Keith's offensive numbers. Defensively they were equal 

F Me In The Brain

Donnie was a great defensive 1B but I've never heard a non yankee/Mattingly homer declare that he is the best ever defensive 1B.  Have heard lots of people say that about 11 time gold glover Hernandez.

One of my favorite all time players is Ken Griffey Jr.  
Your bad back comment is like me claiming Griffey would have rewritten the record books if not for injuries.   I might think that, but it doesn't matter
  Injuries are part of the game and when measuring up players I think we have to utilize what actually happened, not what could have happened.

tempo_n_groove

Thankfully people agree w me.

So, are we letting Palmiero in?  I think he should for sure.  One of a few that has 500 and 3000.  His plaque should be of him in his suit lying to congress though, lol!

Poncier

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Poncier

So cocky and condescending...screw him.

tempo_n_groove

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

Ledbetterman10

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin. 

Poncier

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.

Again, screw him.

tempo_n_groove

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.

Again, screw him.

Hank Aaron must have been a stat compiler too then...  So you think he juiced then magically hit 4-5x as many homers?  It was that easy?

C'mon...

Poncier

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.

Again, screw him.

Hank Aaron must have been a stat compiler too then.

21 time all-star, 1 MVP, career HR leader when he retired, still the career RBI leader and total bases leader...we're comparing apples to watermelons when we try and compare Hank Aaron to Rafael F'in Palmeiro, you can do better.

Poncier

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.

Again, screw him.

  So you think he juiced then magically hit 4-5x as many homers?  It was that easy?

C'mon...

Ask Brady Anderson.

tempo_n_groove

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin. 

I would lead to agree.  Bonds and Arod are the 2 best batters I have ever seen.  First ten years of Pujols is third and first ten years of Big Hurt is 4th.

Yes Bonds was better.  I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.

Ledbetterman10

tempo_n_groove said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin. 

I would lead to agree.  Bonds and Arod are the 2 best batters I have ever seen.  First ten years of Pujols is third and first ten years of Big Hurt is 4th.

Yes Bonds was better.  I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.

A good stat to compare them is walks versus strikeouts. Bonds is absurd in this stat.....

Bonds: Plate Appearances: 12,606, Batting Average: .298, Walks: 2,558, Strikeouts: 1,539
A-Rod: Plate Appearances: 12,207, Batting Average: .295, Walks: 1,338, Strikeouts: 2,287

mfc2006

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Poncier said:

That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.

Dude could hit though.

Hell I want Arod in too though.

None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin. 

I would lead to agree.  Bonds and Arod are the 2 best batters I have ever seen.  First ten years of Pujols is third and first ten years of Big Hurt is 4th.

Yes Bonds was better.  I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.

A good stat to compare them is walks versus strikeouts. Bonds is absurd in this stat.....

Bonds: Plate Appearances: 12,606, Batting Average: .298, Walks: 2,558, Strikeouts: 1,539
A-Rod: Plate Appearances: 12,207, Batting Average: .295, Walks: 1,338, Strikeouts: 2,287

Good god, that's an amazing stat.

Poncier

Wonder how many of the walks to Bonds were intentional.
Pitchers/managers just refused to pitch to him for a long stretch

Poncier

And apparently the answer is 688.
That's crazy, intentionally walked almost 700 times in his career.