MLB 2025 Season

RW81233

I'm pretty sure I could be a #4 starter on any AL team outside of the Sawx. The pitchers all ran away and we're left with AAA pitchers going against guys who can't field, but hit the shit outta the ball.

The Fixer

RW81233 wrote:

Brewers pitchers hit, pretty sure Phils do too. AL isn't even really baseball its beer league softball.

gallardo and greinke both rip. wolf is decent too.

phils pitchers don't really hit well. hamels and lee are decent. halladay and oswalt are among the worst in baseball. blanton is also terrible, even though he went yard in the world series

I do prefer the strategy of having the pitcher hit. plus, having the pitchers hit helps police the game. A guy like pedro martinez wouldn't have taken as many liberties he did in the AL if he had to hit throughout his entire career (actually I would love to see how many guys he hit during his time in montreal).

like I said, I think it's cool that the two leagues are different on the DH

RW81233

Seriously what pitcher outside of the great Pedro Martinez has willingly gone from the NL to the AL and had prolonged success? Agents are on to it, and they are funnelling all the pitching talent to the NL, and all the hitting talent to the AL. I mean you get paid by the Yanks and Sox, but you're not getting another contract. It taxes your arm, and prolly costs 2-3 years of your career. Conversely you can pad your stats not facing the Phils/Giants/Brewers staffs as a hitter, because you spend time going against 2nd rate hurlers as a hitter. Plus if you can't field there's always a job for you if you're a great hitter so why would you stay in the NL? If Prince and Pujols are smart they will go to the Yanks/Sox/LAA's so they can play until 40.

The Fixer

RW81233 wrote:

Seriously what pitcher outside of the great Pedro Martinez has willingly gone from the NL to the AL and had prolonged success? Agents are on to it, and they are funnelling all the pitching talent to the NL, and all the hitting talent to the AL. I mean you get paid by the Yanks and Sox, but you're not getting another contract. It taxes your arm, and prolly costs 2-3 years of your career. Conversely you can pad your stats not facing the Phils/Giants/Brewers staffs as a hitter, because you spend time going against 2nd rate hurlers as a hitter. Plus if you can't field there's always a job for you if you're a great hitter so why would you stay in the NL? If Prince and Pujols are smart they will go to the Yanks/Sox/LAA's so they can play until 40.

top of my head...cliff lee, sabathia, haren, beckett, schilling. I see your point though, doesn't happen often

fielder and pujols are going to the highest bidder. Just read an interesting article about why the brewers should let prince walk. I'll try to find it for you

RW81233

The Fixer wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

Brewers pitchers hit, pretty sure Phils do too. AL isn't even really baseball its beer league softball.

gallardo and greinke both rip. wolf is decent too.

phils pitchers don't really hit well. hamels and lee are decent. halladay and oswalt are among the worst in baseball. blanton is also terrible, even though he went yard in the world series

I do prefer the strategy of having the pitcher hit. plus, having the pitchers hit helps police the game. A guy like pedro martinez wouldn't have taken as many liberties he did in the AL if he had to hit throughout his entire career (actually I would love to see how many guys he hit during his time in montreal).

like I said, I think it's cool that the two leagues are different on the DH

Narv-dog hits too, Marcum is a bit of a puncher but still is in the high 100s low 200s I think. Pedro drilled people no matter where he played. Plus he threw a 2-seamer in those days that he couldn't control b/c it moved like a foot and a half. Just checked he had 11 twice, 9 and 8. For the Sox he had 14, 15, and 16.

pjl44

tcaporale wrote:

Can't get rid of the DH at this point. The AL teams are basically built for it; for instance, if there's no DH, David Ortiz has nowhere to go for the Red Sox, and he's one of their best hitters. There would be far too much outcry. I don't really find much wrong at all with the way the divisions and Wild Card spots are done now except for the fact that the AL West has four teams and the NL Central six. And good teams fluctuate with time; the White Sox won a title not very long ago, so who's to say the AL Central can't become a good division?

The problem is for teams like the Blue Jays, Rays, Orioles, Nationals, and Marlins. It's a much more difficult task to compete year-in and year-out when you're up against payrolls like that. If you eliminate the divisions, there is a much clearer shot to the post-season for every team and winning is what brings people to the park.

RW81233

The Fixer wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

Seriously what pitcher outside of the great Pedro Martinez has willingly gone from the NL to the AL and had prolonged success? Agents are on to it, and they are funnelling all the pitching talent to the NL, and all the hitting talent to the AL. I mean you get paid by the Yanks and Sox, but you're not getting another contract. It taxes your arm, and prolly costs 2-3 years of your career. Conversely you can pad your stats not facing the Phils/Giants/Brewers staffs as a hitter, because you spend time going against 2nd rate hurlers as a hitter. Plus if you can't field there's always a job for you if you're a great hitter so why would you stay in the NL? If Prince and Pujols are smart they will go to the Yanks/Sox/LAA's so they can play until 40.

top of my head...cliff lee, sabathia, haren, beckett, schilling. I see your point though, doesn't happen often

fielder and pujols are going to the highest bidder. Just read an interesting article about why the brewers should let prince walk. I'll try to find it for you

Those guys all had some great AL seasons, but for 6-7 years? And the Crew absolutely have to let Prince walk it would be stupid to keep him. They'll bring up Gamel or someone who hits 30 HRs and fields a bit better for a 10th the price, and will lose more in leadership over anything.

The Fixer

pjl44 wrote:

tcaporale wrote:

Can't get rid of the DH at this point. The AL teams are basically built for it; for instance, if there's no DH, David Ortiz has nowhere to go for the Red Sox, and he's one of their best hitters. There would be far too much outcry. I don't really find much wrong at all with the way the divisions and Wild Card spots are done now except for the fact that the AL West has four teams and the NL Central six. And good teams fluctuate with time; the White Sox won a title not very long ago, so who's to say the AL Central can't become a good division?

The problem is for teams like the Blue Jays, Rays, Orioles, Nationals, and Marlins. It's a much more difficult task to compete year-in and year-out when you're up against payrolls like that. If you eliminate the divisions, there is a much clearer shot to the post-season for every team and winning is what brings people to the park.

actually higher payroll doesn't equate to success in baseball

pjl44

RW81233 wrote:

Brewers pitchers hit, pretty sure Phils do too. AL isn't even really baseball its beer league softball.

Career lines (BA/OBP/SLG):

Gallardo: .212/.248/.394
Greinke: .184/.205/.395
Marcum: .111/.200/.167
Wolf: .187/.226/.264
Narveson: .259/.294/.272

Halladay: .110/.121/.110
Lee: .153/.180/.174
Hamels: .170/.194/.202
Oswalt: .156/.193/.172
Blanton: .120/.164/.120

Yeah dude, they mash. Are you kidding????

pjl44

The Fixer wrote:

pjl44 wrote:

tcaporale wrote:

Can't get rid of the DH at this point. The AL teams are basically built for it; for instance, if there's no DH, David Ortiz has nowhere to go for the Red Sox, and he's one of their best hitters. There would be far too much outcry. I don't really find much wrong at all with the way the divisions and Wild Card spots are done now except for the fact that the AL West has four teams and the NL Central six. And good teams fluctuate with time; the White Sox won a title not very long ago, so who's to say the AL Central can't become a good division?

The problem is for teams like the Blue Jays, Rays, Orioles, Nationals, and Marlins. It's a much more difficult task to compete year-in and year-out when you're up against payrolls like that. If you eliminate the divisions, there is a much clearer shot to the post-season for every team and winning is what brings people to the park.

actually higher payroll doesn't equate to success in baseball

It equates to playoff appearances. If nothing in the current format changes, what you would wager on post-season games played for the Yankees and Red Sox over the next decade vs. the Rays, Blue Jays, and Orioles?

The Juggler

pjl44 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

pjl44 wrote:

I agree with Keith Law...DH in both leagues and expand to two more cities. The sport is healthy and far better off with 16 teams in each league vs. 15.

why does he say that--just because there's no way the players union will agree to get rid of it? the dh isn't good for the game at all. i wish they would just get rid of it all together.

unfathomable to me that one league has had such a distinct advantage over the other for over 4 decades now.

His point (which I agree with) is that it makes for better baseball. Pitchers can't hit and they become a black hole at the bottom of the order. When managers have to manage around it as it gets into later innings, you're not focusing on what someone can do, but what they can't. It isn't "strategy," but instead a forced situation.

With a couple rare exceptions, pitchers will never be league-average hitters. The entirety of their development is to make them as effective and durable as their skills will allow.

As a fan, I far prefer the AL style of play for that reason. It also allows aging stars to extend their careers, which is also good for the game.

Oh...and I agree completely on your last point. It has put the NL at a severe disadvantage; would love to see them adopt the DH.

i don't care if the focus is on what someone can't do as opposed to what someone can do. that's just the way the game is...and was for hundred years or so before the dh arrived. i enjoy the the strategy. it's real baseball.

letsongsprotest

I never have understood why the DH/no DH topic gets so many people riled up....

Im i life long Detroit Tiger fan. Im partial to the DH, but i dont mind pitchers hitting either. Just dont get why people get so defensive either way.

This difference in the leagues is a good thing IMO.

RW81233

I didn't say they mashed...just that they hit a bit. Plus I like the strategy of it in late game situations it makes things fun.

pjl44

The Juggler wrote:

i don't care if the focus is on what someone can't do as opposed to what someone can do. that's just the way the game is...and was for hundred years or so before the dh arrived. i enjoy the the strategy. it's real baseball.

If you enjoy the current style of NL ball, that's totally your prerogative. The DH argument speaks to the future of the game on a much broader level. For the most part, fans either want to see offensive shows or pitchers who can dominate. Watching Livan Hernandez mow down a no-stick middle infielder and Kyle Lohse every three innings doesn't delight most fans. And, if nothing else, we agree it at least puts one league at a sharp disadvantage.

The Fixer

pjl44 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

actually higher payroll doesn't equate to success in baseball

It equates to playoff appearances. If nothing in the current format changes, what you would wager on post-season games played for the Yankees and Red Sox over the next decade vs. the Rays, Blue Jays, and Orioles?

The sox and yanks are run better than the other teams in the AL East. AA has turned things around in Toronto. They are better set up for the yanks over the next 5 years.

Plenty of teams make the playoffs every year without spending a ton of money. Just last year you had cincy, SF, Atlanta, Tampa, Minnesota. I don't believe any of them were in the top 10 in payroll last year

pjl44

RW81233 wrote:

I didn't say they mashed...just that they hit a bit. Plus I like the strategy of it in late game situations it makes things fun.

They don't hit at all. Almost every pitcher puts up a line worse than the least effective position player in a given year. That even goes for "good" hitters like Carlos Zambrano.

RW81233

pjl44 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

i don't care if the focus is on what someone can't do as opposed to what someone can do. that's just the way the game is...and was for hundred years or so before the dh arrived. i enjoy the the strategy. it's real baseball.

If you enjoy the current style of NL ball, that's totally your prerogative. The DH argument speaks to the future of the game on a much broader level. For the most part, fans either want to see offensive shows or pitchers who can dominate. Watching Livan Hernandez mow down a no-stick middle infielder and Kyle Lohse every three innings doesn't delight most fans. And, if nothing else, we agree it at least puts one league at a sharp disadvantage.

Most definitely in interleague. NL teams have to call-up AAA sluggers b/c they don't have anyone for that position.

81

And AL pitchers have to hit in inter league. I for one like watching pitchers hit.

Its called being a complete player unlike the 90%'s in the AL

pjl44

The Fixer wrote:

The sox and yanks are run better than the other teams in the AL East. AA has turned things around in Toronto. They are better set up for the yanks over the next 5 years.

Plenty of teams make the playoffs every year without spending a ton of money. Just last year you had cincy, SF, Atlanta, Tampa, Minnesota. I don't believe any of them were in the top 10 in payroll last year

You will have aberrations every year. It's about who competes every year and who slips through once every 5-10. The Rays have arguably the best front office in baseball. The Red Sox are certainly up there and the Yankees are above average at best.

To give you an idea what they're up against, playoff appearances the last 10 years:

Yankees - 9
Red Sox - 7
Rays - 2
Orioles - 0
Blue Jays - 0

pjl44

The 81 wrote:

And AL pitchers have to hit in inter league. I for one like watching pitchers hit.

Its called being a complete player unlike the 90%'s in the AL

There are no pitchers that can hit. None. Striking out or tapping to the shortstop three times a game doesn't make you a complete player.