MLB 2025 Season

81

i think i would vote for omar

PureandEasy

81 wrote:

6 weeks until pitchers and catchers start reporting.

I always start the countdown at the beginning of the year!

After seeing CB Park and how awesome it looked on Monday, and then the announcers saying, opening day in 14 weeks.

Gave me chills!

The Fixer

81 wrote:

i think i would vote for omar

No way. His offensive stats are a joke (especially his season averages). I know he was great defensively, but that shouldn't get you in the HOF. He was never one of the best at his position during his career.

Cliffy6745

I can't put Vizquel in either. Not Ozzie Smith defensively so he can't rely on that alone. Damn damn good player, but just shy for me.

Wobbie

pureoc wrote:

None of the Roids guys should get in, since integrity is a criteria for getting in. Taking steroids is an automatic disqualifier.

please. every era has cheated...steroids was just a new way.

personally, I do think Bagwell did roids. the spring they started testing, he, pudge and a whole lot of other guys showed up at spring training looking like stick fugures. that said, he should be in the hall and these sanctimonious sportswriters ought to quit playing judge and jury for the steroids era. I think they have already put one steroid user in the hall and there will be more since they are always so sure of someone's guilt or innocence. :roll:

DewieCox

pureoc wrote:

None of the Roids guys should get in, since integrity is a criteria for getting in. Taking steroids is an automatic disqualifier.

Yeah, let's kick Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Mike Schmidt out too. :arrow:

81

just a few stats for you to chew on

Omar
2841 hits
944 rbi
1432 runs
272 avg
80 hrs
11 gold gloves
183 E's

ozzy
2460 hits
793 rbi
1257 runs
262 avg
28 hr
13 gg's
281 E's

ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.

Wobbie

81 wrote:

just a few stats for you to chew on

Omar
2841 hits
944 rbi
1432 runs
272 avg
80 hrs
11 gold gloves
183 E's

ozzy
2460 hits
793 rbi
1257 runs
262 avg
28 hr
13 gg's
281 E's

ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.

one of your better posts

I hope he's wearing a giants hat on his plaque.

P.S.It's "ozzie", not "ozzy"

Monster Rain

I think the biggest difference between them is that Ozzie played at a time when shortstops were valued for their defense over their offense and he was above average offensively for a National League shortstop in the '80s. With Vizquel, he was a light-hitting shortstop with a great glove at a time when it wasn't unusual for a shortstop to hit .300 or have 20+ HRs so it's going to be a tougher call for a lot of people. Ozzie Smith was the best SS in the NL for a long time. I don't think you can ever say Omar Vizquel was the best SS in the league because he was playing at the same time as A-Rod and Jeter (and before he became decent offensively he was playing against Ripken). Ozzie Smith was an All-Star 12 straight seasons from '81-'92. Vizquel made the All-Star team in 1998, 1999, and 2002.

So even though Vizquel has more hits, HRs, runs, RBI, and a higher batting average he did it in an era that was geared towards offense and he did it over 4 more seasons and was never the best SS in the league for any period of time. As a side note, they have the exact same OBP, Vizquel has 9.8 AB/K compared to just 16.0 AB/K for Ozzie, and Ozzie had 580 SB compared to 401 for Vizquel (and a 79.7% SB% compared to 70.8%). Ozzie also scored more runs per season (about 66/year compared to 62/year) in a lower-scoring league in a lower-scoring era.

Ozzie being in the Hall will help Vizquel get more votes but I don't think he'll be elected. He might get in if the Veterans Committee votes him in later, but I think he'll fall just a little short of the 75% needed from the writers.

81 wrote:

just a few stats for you to chew on

Omar
2841 hits
944 rbi
1432 runs
272 avg
80 hrs
11 gold gloves
183 E's

ozzy
2460 hits
793 rbi
1257 runs
262 avg
28 hr
13 gg's
281 E's

ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.

Wobbie

quite a discussion in the cubs thread....but ozzie and zambrano could be awesome. I'm picturing an in-dugout throw down.

Monster Rain

That's going to be a disaster for the Marlins. Beinfest even said, "We went with Ozzie on this one." In other words, if Zambrano is the same clubhouse disease he's always been, Guillen's taking the blame for pushing for the deal. It makes sense. After Zambrano got into an altercation in the dugout with Derek Lee during a Cubs/White Sox interleague game a couple years ago, he went out to dinner with Guillen and Guillen defended Zambrano's actions. I can see a scenario where Guillen coddles Zambrano and tries to justify or brush off any bad behavior and it'll eat away at the respect other players have for both of them so even when Zambrano's gone after the season, the remaining players will harbor some resentment towards Guillen--similar to what Epstein said had happened in Chicago when the players grew tired of being promised that he'd changed and he never did. If the team is a disappointment after signing Reyes, Beuhrle, and Bell and Zambrano's causing problems, it could cost Guillen his job. Loria's not spending all that money to finish 4th.

imalive wrote:

quite a discussion in the cubs thread....but ozzie and zambrano could be awesome. I'm picturing an in-dugout throw down.

Monster Rain

The Padres traded Anthony Rizzo to the Cubs for Andrew Cashner.

The Fixer

81 wrote:

just a few stats for you to chew on

Omar
2841 hits
944 rbi
1432 runs
272 avg
80 hrs
11 gold gloves
183 E's

ozzy
2460 hits
793 rbi
1257 runs
262 avg
28 hr
13 gg's
281 E's

ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.

different eras brother. if vizquel played in the 70's and 80's he'd be a no brainer. unfortunately for him, he didn't.

vizquel isn't deserving. no way

The Fixer

Monster Rain wrote:

The Padres traded Anthony Rizzo to the Cubs for Andrew Cashner.

oh shit. two big names.

Makes sense for SD since they got alonso, but I think they could have gotten more for Rizzo. Alonso is gonna hit a ton, even in petco.

81

The Fixer wrote:

81 wrote:

just a few stats for you to chew on

Omar
2841 hits
944 rbi
1432 runs
272 avg
80 hrs
11 gold gloves
183 E's

ozzy
2460 hits
793 rbi
1257 runs
262 avg
28 hr
13 gg's
281 E's


ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.

different eras brother. if vizquel played in the 70's and 80's he'd be a no brainer. unfortunately for him, he didn't.

vizquel isn't deserving. no way

talk of Barry Larkin being in this year

2340 hits
960 RBI
1329 runs
295 avg
198 hr
3 gg's
235 E's


i think omar gets in someday

81

imalive wrote:

P.S.It's "ozzie", not "ozzy"

teh spelling nazi shows again. :P

norm

Barry Larkin was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame

81

norm wrote:

Barry Larkin was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame

ozzie is in
Barry is in

is there any doubt...that omar will be in someday? i think not.

The Fixer

81 wrote:

norm wrote:

Barry Larkin was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame

ozzie is in
Barry is in

is there any doubt...that omar will be in someday? i think not.

well since both of the guys you named are far superior to vizquel...yes, there is definite doubt he gets in

vizquel's peak wasn't good enough. he's a compiler.

Cliffy6745

Ron Swansons Baseball Hall of Fame

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/ ... t-tornado/

Fucking fantastic