Schilling should totally be in. If it was based on regular season only, he'd be borderline. But he's one of the best (if not the best) postseason pitchers of the past 30 years. Check out his postseason W/L record and ERA compared to other hall of fame starting pitchers from that era. Only Smoltz comes close....
Curt Schilling: 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA John Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA Greg Maddux: 11-13 with a 3.27 ERA Tom Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA Randy Johnson: 7-9 with a 3.50 ERA Jack Morris: 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA Mike Mussina: 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA Pedro Martinez: 6-4 with a 3.46 ERA
Josh Beckett 7-3 w 3.07 ERA I always thought he was overlooked.
Yeah he was great in the postseason. I was only listing hall of famers though. Another guy not listed but who I think will make the hall of fame is Madison Bumgarner. 8-3 (Really you can call him 9-3 since he pitched like 5 innings in that game 7 to earn the save) with a 2.11 ERA.
Schilling should totally be in. If it was based on regular season only, he'd be borderline. But he's one of the best (if not the best) postseason pitchers of the past 30 years. Check out his postseason W/L record and ERA compared to other hall of fame starting pitchers from that era. Only Smoltz comes close....
Curt Schilling: 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA John Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA Greg Maddux: 11-13 with a 3.27 ERA Tom Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA Randy Johnson: 7-9 with a 3.50 ERA Jack Morris: 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA Mike Mussina: 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA Pedro Martinez: 6-4 with a 3.46 ERA
Not every good to great player is going to play in the playoffs or even have played a ton of games in the playoffs. So I think the regular season should count more.
Schilling should totally be in. If it was based on regular season only, he'd be borderline. But he's one of the best (if not the best) postseason pitchers of the past 30 years. Check out his postseason W/L record and ERA compared to other hall of fame starting pitchers from that era. Only Smoltz comes close....
Curt Schilling: 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA John Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA Greg Maddux: 11-13 with a 3.27 ERA Tom Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA Randy Johnson: 7-9 with a 3.50 ERA Jack Morris: 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA Mike Mussina: 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA Pedro Martinez: 6-4 with a 3.46 ERA
Not every good to great player is going to play in the playoffs or even have played a ton of games in the playoffs. So I think the regular season should count more.
I disagree. Now if you’re great in the regular season and don’t have any postseason success (Frank Thomas for example), that shouldn’t be held against you. But postseason success should be weighed heavily for players that have it, and should put them over the top if they’re borderline based only on regular season like someone like Schilling.
Schilling should totally be in. If it was based on regular season only, he'd be borderline. But he's one of the best (if not the best) postseason pitchers of the past 30 years. Check out his postseason W/L record and ERA compared to other hall of fame starting pitchers from that era. Only Smoltz comes close....
Curt Schilling: 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA John Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA Greg Maddux: 11-13 with a 3.27 ERA Tom Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA Randy Johnson: 7-9 with a 3.50 ERA Jack Morris: 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA Mike Mussina: 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA Pedro Martinez: 6-4 with a 3.46 ERA
Josh Beckett 7-3 w 3.07 ERA I always thought he was overlooked.
Yeah he was great in the postseason. I was only listing hall of famers though. Another guy not listed but who I think will make the hall of fame is Madison Bumgarner. 8-3 (Really you can call him 9-3 since he pitched like 5 innings in that game 7 to earn the save) with a 2.11 ERA.
I know, I was just pointing out someone who was clutch in the playoffs too.
Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.
People cry for Keith Hernandez? Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.
Hernandez is not in that group. Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?
No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!
I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.
Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.
I give Mattingly the edge over Keith
Keith led a team and won a WS though. Had a much better WAR and both are 300 AB's apart.
I think Doc, Daryl, Darling ,Knight, Mookie, Sid, Ojeda, and Carter also had something to do with it also. Keith also played 303 more games and had 831 more Plate Appearances. Both retired young but Mattingly was still a good player with his bad back. Keith couldn't hit by the end.
Schilling should totally be in. If it was based on regular season only, he'd be borderline. But he's one of the best (if not the best) postseason pitchers of the past 30 years. Check out his postseason W/L record and ERA compared to other hall of fame starting pitchers from that era. Only Smoltz comes close....
Curt Schilling: 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA John Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA Greg Maddux: 11-13 with a 3.27 ERA Tom Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA Randy Johnson: 7-9 with a 3.50 ERA Jack Morris: 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA Mike Mussina: 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA Pedro Martinez: 6-4 with a 3.46 ERA
Not every good to great player is going to play in the playoffs or even have played a ton of games in the playoffs. So I think the regular season should count more.
I disagree. Now if you’re great in the regular season and don’t have any postseason success (Frank Thomas for example), that shouldn’t be held against you. But postseason success should be weighed heavily for players that have it, and should put them over the top if they’re borderline based only on regular season like someone like Schilling.
So if basically are an average player but happen to play for the Yankees for example and are constantly in the playoffs they should be a Hall of Famer?
Schilling should totally be in. If it was based on regular season only, he'd be borderline. But he's one of the best (if not the best) postseason pitchers of the past 30 years. Check out his postseason W/L record and ERA compared to other hall of fame starting pitchers from that era. Only Smoltz comes close....
Curt Schilling: 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA John Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA Greg Maddux: 11-13 with a 3.27 ERA Tom Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA Randy Johnson: 7-9 with a 3.50 ERA Jack Morris: 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA Mike Mussina: 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA Pedro Martinez: 6-4 with a 3.46 ERA
Not every good to great player is going to play in the playoffs or even have played a ton of games in the playoffs. So I think the regular season should count more.
I disagree. Now if you’re great in the regular season and don’t have any postseason success (Frank Thomas for example), that shouldn’t be held against you. But postseason success should be weighed heavily for players that have it, and should put them over the top if they’re borderline based only on regular season like someone like Schilling.
So if basically are an average player but happen to play for the Yankees for example and are constantly in the playoffs they should be a Hall of Famer?
Nope. I said if you’re a borderline HOFer based on your regular seasons, and you’re great in the postseason, that should get you in.
Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.
People cry for Keith Hernandez? Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.
Hernandez is not in that group. Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?
No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!
I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.
Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.
I give Mattingly the edge over Keith
Keith led a team and won a WS though. Had a much better WAR and both are 300 AB's apart.
I think Doc, Daryl, Darling ,Knight, Mookie, Sid, Ojeda, and Carter also had something to do with it also. Keith also played 303 more games and had 831 more Plate Appearances. Both retired young but Mattingly was still a good player with his bad back. Keith couldn't hit by the end.
There's only 300 AB's apart from them though. Hernandez has twice as many walks. Keith also won gold gloves at the end of his career as did Matingly.
For flash I go w Donnie Baseball as he put a string of a few years very nicely. Career I like Keith.
Knight, Mookie and Sid had very, very brief flashes of goodness. They weren't very good in their good seasons... Dykstra and Backman were better than Mookie.
Not going to argue about Carter. He was good, so was Daryl.
Didn't Mattingly have Winfield and Henderson?
Thinking back to that 86 season Yanks have 3 HOF? Mets only 1? I think Carter is the only HOFer from the Mets.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,446
Schillings a fun case. Maybe the bloody sock/very thin line between him and Wainwright is the divide, but I say keep him out to keep the snowflakes crying.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,795
Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.
People cry for Keith Hernandez? Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.
Hernandez is not in that group. Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?
No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!
I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.
Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.
I give Mattingly the edge over Keith
Possibly the least surprising hot take ever read here. You are likely the biggest Mattingly fan I know of. Of course you give him the edge over Hernandez. cmon
I like your Fandom but agree with the others here that in head to head, over their careers, KH gets the win.
Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.
People cry for Keith Hernandez? Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.
Hernandez is not in that group. Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?
No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!
I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.
Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.
I give Mattingly the edge over Keith
Keith led a team and won a WS though. Had a much better WAR and both are 300 AB's apart.
I think Doc, Daryl, Darling ,Knight, Mookie, Sid, Ojeda, and Carter also had something to do with it also. Keith also played 303 more games and had 831 more Plate Appearances. Both retired young but Mattingly was still a good player with his bad back. Keith couldn't hit by the end.
There's only 300 AB's apart from them though. Hernandez has twice as many walks. Keith also won gold gloves at the end of his career as did Matingly.
For flash I go w Donnie Baseball as he put a string of a few years very nicely. Career I like Keith.
Knight, Mookie and Sid had very, very brief flashes of goodness. They weren't very good in their good seasons... Dykstra and Backman were better than Mookie.
Not going to argue about Carter. He was good, so was Daryl.
Didn't Mattingly have Winfield and Henderson?
Thinking back to that 86 season Yanks have 3 HOF? Mets only 1? I think Carter is the only HOFer from the Mets.
Mets had the pitching. Doc was HOF in waiting if he had not ruined it with his addiction. Mattingly had good hitting teams. I believe the Yankees had the most wins in the 80s. But unfortunately they didn't have a wild card then
Palmiero I don't think gets in for a bit because he got popped and lied to congress.
People cry for Keith Hernandez? Dude was pretty damn good but not HOF good.
Hernandez is not in that group. Are you mistaking Mattingly (Yankee) for Hernandez (Met)?
No shit he's not in that group which is why I brought him up and no baseball fan would ever mistake Mattingly for Keith, lol!
I always read about Hernandez fans chirping about how he gets snubbed from the HOF conversation whenever Mattingly gets mentioned.
Just wanted to chime in that he isn't good enough to be in the Hall either and neither is Mattingly.
I give Mattingly the edge over Keith
Possibly the least surprising hot take ever read here. You are likely the biggest Mattingly fan I know of. Of course you give him the edge over Hernandez. cmon
I like your Fandom but agree with the others here that in head to head, over their careers, KH gets the win.
Because he won a World Series? I like Keith and think he deserves a chance. But if Mattingly didn't have his bad back he would have trounced Keith's offensive numbers. Defensively they were equal
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,795
Donnie was a great defensive 1B but I've never heard a non yankee/Mattingly homer declare that he is the best ever defensive 1B. Have heard lots of people say that about 11 time gold glover Hernandez.
One of my favorite all time players is Ken Griffey Jr. Your bad back comment is like me claiming Griffey would have rewritten the record books if not for injuries. I might think that, but it doesn't matter Injuries are part of the game and when measuring up players I think we have to utilize what actually happened, not what could have happened.
So, are we letting Palmiero in? I think he should for sure. One of a few that has 500 and 3000. His plaque should be of him in his suit lying to congress though, lol!
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.
Again, screw him.
Hank Aaron must have been a stat compiler too then... So you think he juiced then magically hit 4-5x as many homers? It was that easy?
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.
Again, screw him.
Hank Aaron must have been a stat compiler too then.
21 time all-star, 1 MVP, career HR leader when he retired, still the career RBI leader and total bases leader...we're comparing apples to watermelons when we try and compare Hank Aaron to Rafael F'in Palmeiro, you can do better.
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
Meh. Stat compiler. Only 4 time all-star in 20-year career. The 3 full seasons before he obviously got on the juice, he hit 8, 8 and 14 HR. So not a case like Bonds or Clemens where they were sure fire HOF'ers before juicing, this guy would have hit like 200-250 career HR in 20 years without 'roids.
Again, screw him.
So you think he juiced then magically hit 4-5x as many homers? It was that easy?
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin.
I would lead to agree. Bonds and Arod are the 2 best batters I have ever seen. First ten years of Pujols is third and first ten years of Big Hurt is 4th.
Yes Bonds was better. I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin.
I would lead to agree. Bonds and Arod are the 2 best batters I have ever seen. First ten years of Pujols is third and first ten years of Big Hurt is 4th.
Yes Bonds was better. I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.
A good stat to compare them is walks versus strikeouts. Bonds is absurd in this stat.....
That visual of Palmeiro pointing his finger and lying to Congress will stick with him forever and should keep him out of the Hall.
Dude could hit though.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
None of those guys can get in before Bonds though. Great as A-Rod was, Bonds was better by a very large margin.
I would lead to agree. Bonds and Arod are the 2 best batters I have ever seen. First ten years of Pujols is third and first ten years of Big Hurt is 4th.
Yes Bonds was better. I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.
A good stat to compare them is walks versus strikeouts. Bonds is absurd in this stat.....
Comments
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Madison is a great in that department too.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
For flash I go w Donnie Baseball as he put a string of a few years very nicely. Career I like Keith.
Knight, Mookie and Sid had very, very brief flashes of goodness. They weren't very good in their good seasons... Dykstra and Backman were better than Mookie.
Not going to argue about Carter. He was good, so was Daryl.
Didn't Mattingly have Winfield and Henderson?
Thinking back to that 86 season Yanks have 3 HOF? Mets only 1? I think Carter is the only HOFer from the Mets.
him out to keep the snowflakes crying.
You are likely the biggest Mattingly fan I know of. Of course you give him the edge over Hernandez.
I like your Fandom but agree with the others here that in head to head, over their careers, KH gets the win.
One of my favorite all time players is Ken Griffey Jr.
Your bad back comment is like me claiming Griffey would have rewritten the record books if not for injuries. I might think that, but it doesn't matter
Injuries are part of the game and when measuring up players I think we have to utilize what actually happened, not what could have happened.
So, are we letting Palmiero in? I think he should for sure. One of a few that has 500 and 3000. His plaque should be of him in his suit lying to congress though, lol!
So cocky and condescending...screw him.
Hell I want Arod in too though.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Again, screw him.
C'mon...
Yes Bonds was better. I have and most likely will never see the likes of what he did again.
Bonds: Plate Appearances: 12,606, Batting Average: .298, Walks: 2,558, Strikeouts: 1,539
A-Rod: Plate Appearances: 12,207, Batting Average: .295, Walks: 1,338, Strikeouts: 2,287
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Pitchers/managers just refused to pitch to him for a long stretch
That's crazy, intentionally walked almost 700 times in his career.