None of the Roids guys should get in, since integrity is a criteria for getting in. Taking steroids is an automatic disqualifier.
Alpine Valley 6/26/98, Alpine Valley 10/8/00, Champaign 4/23/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Grand Rapids 10/3/04
Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
When is Frank Thomas eligible? He is about as assumed clean as they're gonna get as far as HoF shoe-ins from that era. If he doesn't get in, I dunno how you can put anybody in.
Next year maybe. I think most of the steroid guys hit the ballot next year. Frank Thomas is a first ballot, no doubt.
He's eligible in 2014....well, that's according to wikipedia. Big Frank is a no doubt, first ballot Hall of Famer. As a lifelong White Sox fan, that is a trip I may have to make out to Cooperstown to see him go in. His numbers in the 90s are just ridiculous. I always wonder how he would have finished the 94 season if there wasn't a stike. He was hitting .353 w/ 38 HR and 101 RBI after 113 games.
2014 is a pretty good class of guys on the ballot for the first time. Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, Mussina, and Kent are all on the ballot that year. All 5 of them could/should get in eventually. Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are probably getting in that year. Kent may have to wait because he was a jerk and Mussina might have to wait because his win total is under 300 but he was among the best of his era. He was in the Top 5 in wins 7 times (including leading the league with 19 in the strike-shortened 1995 season an dfinishing 2nd in the league 3 times, which includes his 20-win season in his final year). He was in the Top 10 in ERA 11 times, Top 10 in WHIP 12 times (10 of those saeasons being in the Top 5), was in the Top 10 in strikeouts 10 times (and is 19th all-time with 2,813), was in the Top 5 in shutouts 8 times (including leading the league in 1995), was a 5-time All-star, and won 7 Gold Gloves.
When is Frank Thomas eligible? He is about as assumed clean as they're gonna get as far as HoF shoe-ins from that era. If he doesn't get in, I dunno how you can put anybody in.
Next year maybe. I think most of the steroid guys hit the ballot next year. Frank Thomas is a first ballot, no doubt.
He's eligible in 2014....well, that's according to wikipedia. Big Frank is a no doubt, first ballot Hall of Famer. As a lifelong White Sox fan, that is a trip I may have to make out to Cooperstown to see him go in. His numbers in the 90s are just ridiculous. I always wonder how he would have finished the 94 season if there wasn't a stike. He was hitting .353 w/ 38 HR and 101 RBI after 113 games.
I am a big advocate of Moose being a hall of famer, but I don't think he'll get it. Johnny Damon of all people made the point that he racked up all those numbers pitching against the Blue Jays championship teams, then the Yankees dynasty then the Red Sox 2 titles. I thought that was a really good point.
I am a big advocate of Moose being a hall of famer, but I don't think he'll get it. Johnny Damon of all people made the point that he racked up all those numbers pitching against the Blue Jays championship teams, then the Yankees dynasty then the Red Sox 2 titles. I thought that was a really good point.
I am a big advocate of Moose being a hall of famer, but I don't think he'll get it. Johnny Damon of all people made the point that he racked up all those numbers pitching against the Blue Jays championship teams, then the Yankees dynasty then the Red Sox 2 titles. I thought that was a really good point.
What was his point?
That Mussina had such great seasons and racked up outstanding numbers while being in the same division as some of the games best teams, over an extended period of time and having to face them regularly. They are already hall of fame numbers but then much of them came against those teams. I thought it was interesting.
I am a big advocate of Moose being a hall of famer, but I don't think he'll get it. Johnny Damon of all people made the point that he racked up all those numbers pitching against the Blue Jays championship teams, then the Yankees dynasty then the Red Sox 2 titles. I thought that was a really good point.
I don't think mussina is a HOFer.
I don't think omar vizquel is a HOFer.
Glavine will get in, but I always thought he pitched like a mary. everything on the outer half. he used to get calls a foot off the plate. if they had quest tech during his entire career he would have been ted lilly.
No way. His offensive stats are a joke (especially his season averages). I know he was great defensively, but that shouldn't get you in the HOF. He was never one of the best at his position during his career.
None of the Roids guys should get in, since integrity is a criteria for getting in. Taking steroids is an automatic disqualifier.
please. every era has cheated...steroids was just a new way.
personally, I do think Bagwell did roids. the spring they started testing, he, pudge and a whole lot of other guys showed up at spring training looking like stick fugures. that said, he should be in the hall and these sanctimonious sportswriters ought to quit playing judge and jury for the steroids era. I think they have already put one steroid user in the hall and there will be more since they are always so sure of someone's guilt or innocence. :roll:
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.
one of your better posts
I hope he's wearing a giants hat on his plaque.
P.S.It's "ozzie", not "ozzy"
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I think the biggest difference between them is that Ozzie played at a time when shortstops were valued for their defense over their offense and he was above average offensively for a National League shortstop in the '80s. With Vizquel, he was a light-hitting shortstop with a great glove at a time when it wasn't unusual for a shortstop to hit .300 or have 20+ HRs so it's going to be a tougher call for a lot of people. Ozzie Smith was the best SS in the NL for a long time. I don't think you can ever say Omar Vizquel was the best SS in the league because he was playing at the same time as A-Rod and Jeter (and before he became decent offensively he was playing against Ripken). Ozzie Smith was an All-Star 12 straight seasons from '81-'92. Vizquel made the All-Star team in 1998, 1999, and 2002.
So even though Vizquel has more hits, HRs, runs, RBI, and a higher batting average he did it in an era that was geared towards offense and he did it over 4 more seasons and was never the best SS in the league for any period of time. As a side note, they have the exact same OBP, Vizquel has 9.8 AB/K compared to just 16.0 AB/K for Ozzie, and Ozzie had 580 SB compared to 401 for Vizquel (and a 79.7% SB% compared to 70.8%). Ozzie also scored more runs per season (about 66/year compared to 62/year) in a lower-scoring league in a lower-scoring era.
Ozzie being in the Hall will help Vizquel get more votes but I don't think he'll be elected. He might get in if the Veterans Committee votes him in later, but I think he'll fall just a little short of the 75% needed from the writers.
quite a discussion in the cubs thread....but ozzie and zambrano could be awesome. I'm picturing an in-dugout throw down.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
That's going to be a disaster for the Marlins. Beinfest even said, "We went with Ozzie on this one." In other words, if Zambrano is the same clubhouse disease he's always been, Guillen's taking the blame for pushing for the deal. It makes sense. After Zambrano got into an altercation in the dugout with Derek Lee during a Cubs/White Sox interleague game a couple years ago, he went out to dinner with Guillen and Guillen defended Zambrano's actions. I can see a scenario where Guillen coddles Zambrano and tries to justify or brush off any bad behavior and it'll eat away at the respect other players have for both of them so even when Zambrano's gone after the season, the remaining players will harbor some resentment towards Guillen--similar to what Epstein said had happened in Chicago when the players grew tired of being promised that he'd changed and he never did. If the team is a disappointment after signing Reyes, Beuhrle, and Bell and Zambrano's causing problems, it could cost Guillen his job. Loria's not spending all that money to finish 4th.
Comments
Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
So how about Ty Cobb?
Or Hank Aaron for that matter, he admitted to taking greenies.
He's eligible in 2014....well, that's according to wikipedia. Big Frank is a no doubt, first ballot Hall of Famer. As a lifelong White Sox fan, that is a trip I may have to make out to Cooperstown to see him go in. His numbers in the 90s are just ridiculous. I always wonder how he would have finished the 94 season if there wasn't a stike. He was hitting .353 w/ 38 HR and 101 RBI after 113 games.
What was his point?
That Mussina had such great seasons and racked up outstanding numbers while being in the same division as some of the games best teams, over an extended period of time and having to face them regularly. They are already hall of fame numbers but then much of them came against those teams. I thought it was interesting.
I don't think mussina is a HOFer.
I don't think omar vizquel is a HOFer.
Glavine will get in, but I always thought he pitched like a mary. everything on the outer half. he used to get calls a foot off the plate. if they had quest tech during his entire career he would have been ted lilly.
I always start the countdown at the beginning of the year!
After seeing CB Park and how awesome it looked on Monday, and then the announcers saying, opening day in 14 weeks.
Gave me chills!
No way. His offensive stats are a joke (especially his season averages). I know he was great defensively, but that shouldn't get you in the HOF. He was never one of the best at his position during his career.
personally, I do think Bagwell did roids. the spring they started testing, he, pudge and a whole lot of other guys showed up at spring training looking like stick fugures. that said, he should be in the hall and these sanctimonious sportswriters ought to quit playing judge and jury for the steroids era. I think they have already put one steroid user in the hall and there will be more since they are always so sure of someone's guilt or innocence. :roll:
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Yeah, let's kick Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Mike Schmidt out too. :arrow:
Omar
2841 hits
944 rbi
1432 runs
272 avg
80 hrs
11 gold gloves
183 E's
ozzy
2460 hits
793 rbi
1257 runs
262 avg
28 hr
13 gg's
281 E's
ozzy recieved 91.7% of the vote in his first year.
I hope he's wearing a giants hat on his plaque.
P.S.It's "ozzie", not "ozzy"
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
So even though Vizquel has more hits, HRs, runs, RBI, and a higher batting average he did it in an era that was geared towards offense and he did it over 4 more seasons and was never the best SS in the league for any period of time. As a side note, they have the exact same OBP, Vizquel has 9.8 AB/K compared to just 16.0 AB/K for Ozzie, and Ozzie had 580 SB compared to 401 for Vizquel (and a 79.7% SB% compared to 70.8%). Ozzie also scored more runs per season (about 66/year compared to 62/year) in a lower-scoring league in a lower-scoring era.
Ozzie being in the Hall will help Vizquel get more votes but I don't think he'll be elected. He might get in if the Veterans Committee votes him in later, but I think he'll fall just a little short of the 75% needed from the writers.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
different eras brother. if vizquel played in the 70's and 80's he'd be a no brainer. unfortunately for him, he didn't.
vizquel isn't deserving. no way
oh shit. two big names.
Makes sense for SD since they got alonso, but I think they could have gotten more for Rizzo. Alonso is gonna hit a ton, even in petco.
talk of Barry Larkin being in this year
2340 hits
960 RBI
1329 runs
295 avg
198 hr
3 gg's
235 E's
i think omar gets in someday
teh spelling nazi shows again. :P
ozzie is in
Barry is in
is there any doubt...that omar will be in someday? i think not.
well since both of the guys you named are far superior to vizquel...yes, there is definite doubt he gets in
vizquel's peak wasn't good enough. he's a compiler.
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/ ... t-tornado/
Fucking fantastic