I agree it was handled horribly all around but every team benefited from it greatly. Maybe the Yankees are in the spotlight with it because they paid the best players and they had a bunch of them at the end.
The offensive explosion brought baseball back after the strike and I guess i just don't care or see the big deal. I don't see it as a black eye as much as most. I guess it's because of records and baseballs history but whatever, every era had cheating. Sure i prefer players that were clean but i just don't see it as the injustice that most do.
I agree. The players are mostly to blame for this. They are the ones that resisted testing for so long. The MLBPA is arguably the strongest union in the country...Selig would actually be low on the list of scapegoats as far as steroid use is concerned.
Anyway, none of this should take away from thome's run at 600
I agree with all the points posted about Thome and think once he gets to 598/599 the pub will pick up. If nothing else, at least he'll be a first ballot HOFer.
On the steroids issue, everyone can share the blame. MLB, management, players, sportswriters, fans...everyone. If you genuinely didn't know it was going on, you weren't following the game and I have no interest in your opinion. These sanctimonious pundits and columnists that get on their soap box about it can shove it up their ass. Steve Wilstein of the AP was the guy who wrote about seeing the andro (not banned, by the way) in McGwire's locker and was crucified for it. If no one cared enough to deal with it when it was happening, we all have to deal with the fallout like adults now.
I agree with all the points posted about Thome and think once he gets to 598/599 the pub will pick up. If nothing else, at least he'll be a first ballot HOFer.
On the steroids issue, everyone can share the blame. MLB, management, players, sportswriters, fans...everyone. If you genuinely didn't know it was going on, you weren't following the game and I have no interest in your opinion. These sanctimonious pundits and columnists that get on their soap box about it can shove it up their ass. Steve Wilstein of the AP was the guy who wrote about seeing the andro (not banned, by the way) in McGwire's locker and was crucified for it. If no one cared enough to deal with it when it was happening, we all have to deal with the fallout like adults now.
I agree with all the points posted about Thome and think once he gets to 598/599 the pub will pick up. If nothing else, at least he'll be a first ballot HOFer.
On the steroids issue, everyone can share the blame. MLB, management, players, sportswriters, fans...everyone. If you genuinely didn't know it was going on, you weren't following the game and I have no interest in your opinion. These sanctimonious pundits and columnists that get on their soap box about it can shove it up their ass. Steve Wilstein of the AP was the guy who wrote about seeing the andro (not banned, by the way) in McGwire's locker and was crucified for it. If no one cared enough to deal with it when it was happening, we all have to deal with the fallout like adults now.
Agreed with everything from pj and fixer. All good stuff. The writers who ignored it then won't vote for anyone who took them are beyond hypocritical.
hypocritical, sanctimonious assholes! that has been my big beef all along.
If I had known then what I know now...
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thome is not a first ballot HOF ... nothing against the guy but i don't see it ...
as for the roids - the biggest beef i have is that when the shit hit the fan most of these hosers took the cowardly approach and lied or kept quiet ... if they are man enough to "cheat" they should be man enough to admit it ... but like the guys they are - they haven't ... integrity - there is none ...
as for the roids - the biggest beef i have is that when the shit hit the fan most of these hosers took the cowardly approach and lied or kept quiet ... if they are man enough to "cheat" they should be man enough to admit it ... but like the guys they are - they haven't ... integrity - there is none ...
they always say "admit it. you'll be forgiven" but I'm not so sure. especially with bonds. but, since you're a cycling geek, I do think Lance would be forgiven because of all the good he's done. but even he won't come clean.
back to those asshole writers...guys like tom verducci are the worst...they write articles like "Barry Bonds Smashing", they never mention steroids and then, after the fact, they grow a conscience :x . same with the toga clad mcgwire and sosa as SI's Sportsmen or the Year in 1998.
If I had known then what I know now...
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as for the roids - the biggest beef i have is that when the shit hit the fan most of these hosers took the cowardly approach and lied or kept quiet ... if they are man enough to "cheat" they should be man enough to admit it ... but like the guys they are - they haven't ... integrity - there is none ...
they always say "admit it. you'll be forgiven" but I'm not so sure. especially with bonds. but, since you're a cycling geek, I do think Lance would be forgiven because of all the good he's done. but even he won't come clean.
back to those asshole writers...guys like tom verducci are the worst...they write articles like "Barry Bonds Smashing", they never mention steroids and then, after the fact, they grow a conscience :x . same with the toga clad mcgwire and sosa as SI's Sportsmen or the Year in 1998.
i wish we can just erase that whole era from our collective minds.
they always say "admit it. you'll be forgiven" but I'm not so sure. especially with bonds. but, since you're a cycling geek, I do think Lance would be forgiven because of all the good he's done. but even he won't come clean.
i'm a sports fan ... but i value fair play, integrity and class above winning ... i can understand that guys would use PEDs if they weren't banned and the league turned a blind eye ... i got no problem with that ...
but when you're under oath and the whole world is watching and everyone knows you used them and kids are watching ... the guys i support come clean ...
lance has spent so much money on his brand and name and fighting this that he pretty much has no choice but to continue with the deception ...
as for the roids - the biggest beef i have is that when the shit hit the fan most of these hosers took the cowardly approach and lied or kept quiet ... if they are man enough to "cheat" they should be man enough to admit it ... but like the guys they are - they haven't ... integrity - there is none ...
they always say "admit it. you'll be forgiven" but I'm not so sure. especially with bonds. but, since you're a cycling geek, I do think Lance would be forgiven because of all the good he's done. but even he won't come clean.
back to those asshole writers...guys like tom verducci are the worst...they write articles like "Barry Bonds Smashing", they never mention steroids and then, after the fact, they grow a conscience :x . same with the toga clad mcgwire and sosa as SI's Sportsmen or the Year in 1998.
i wish we can just erase that whole era from our collective minds.
Dude, did Barry Bonds kill your dog while taking steroids or something? How did all this impact and traumatize you so much?
I just don't get the big deal, we know the majority of players were on steroids and we know they had an advantage over players in the 60's and 70's just like those players had an advantage over Ruth and them with greenies and black players being integrated.
I don't get the whole steroids ruined my childhood BS. I don't look back at that time I spent watching baseball any differently. I have the same memories and got the same enjoyment out of that time now as I did then.
Dude, did Barry Bonds kill your dog while taking steroids or something?
post of the day!
If I had known then what I know now...
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Dude, did Barry Bonds kill your dog while taking steroids or something? How did all this impact and traumatize you so much?
Phila fans have a special hatred for Barry Bonds that dates back to the Pittsburgh days and his gay stabbing catches in the outfield. Combine that with the city's disposition in general and you have a level of irritation towards this particular athlete normally reserved only for the Dallas Cowboys.
I even saw Bonds play in Dodger Stadium, and there wasn't nearly the animosity that there was in Philly. As for me, I'm right with everyone else - I can't stand anything about the guy, never could and never will.
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I even saw Bonds play in Dodger Stadium, and there wasn't nearly the animosity that there was in Philly.
well, duh. before the gangbangers took over chavez ravine, it was basically a pussy crowd
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Dude, did Barry Bonds kill your dog while taking steroids or something? How did all this impact and traumatize you so much?
Phila fans have a special hatred for Barry Bonds that dates back to the Pittsburgh days and his gay stabbing catches in the outfield. Combine that with the city's disposition in general and you have a level of irritation towards this particular athlete normally reserved only for the Dallas Cowboys.
I even saw Bonds play in Dodger Stadium, and there wasn't nearly the animosity that there was in Philly. As for me, I'm right with everyone else - I can't stand anything about the guy, never could and never will.
i actually liked him until his head ballooned into an oversized watermellon.
they always say "admit it. you'll be forgiven" but I'm not so sure. especially with bonds. but, since you're a cycling geek, I do think Lance would be forgiven because of all the good he's done. but even he won't come clean.
i'm a sports fan ... but i value fair play, integrity and class above winning ... i can understand that guys would use PEDs if they weren't banned and the league turned a blind eye ... i got no problem with that ...
but when you're under oath and the whole world is watching and everyone knows you used them and kids are watching ... the guys i support come clean ...
lance has spent so much money on his brand and name and fighting this that he pretty much has no choice but to continue with the deception ...
seriously, what sport doesn't have guys that cheat? I can't think of any
Dude, did Barry Bonds kill your dog while taking steroids or something? How did all this impact and traumatize you so much?
Phila fans have a special hatred for Barry Bonds that dates back to the Pittsburgh days and his gay stabbing catches in the outfield. Combine that with the city's disposition in general and you have a level of irritation towards this particular athlete normally reserved only for the Dallas Cowboys.
I even saw Bonds play in Dodger Stadium, and there wasn't nearly the animosity that there was in Philly. As for me, I'm right with everyone else - I can't stand anything about the guy, never could and never will.
pre-marriage fixer used to LOVE when bonds came to town and his games landed on my plan. section 145, row 5 would always represent
seriously, what sport doesn't have guys that cheat? I can't think of any
i'm not so jaded to think every sport has cheaters ... but again, it's secondary ... it's debatable whether they cheated as the league never banned PEDs previously ... the use of PED's without authorized use is against the law ... and when they had a chance to come clean - they didn't take the high road ... that's my gripe ... not the fact they took PEDs ...
they always say "admit it. you'll be forgiven" but I'm not so sure. especially with bonds. but, since you're a cycling geek, I do think Lance would be forgiven because of all the good he's done. but even he won't come clean.
i'm a sports fan ... but i value fair play, integrity and class above winning ... i can understand that guys would use PEDs if they weren't banned and the league turned a blind eye ... i got no problem with that ...
but when you're under oath and the whole world is watching and everyone knows you used them and kids are watching ... the guys i support come clean ...
lance has spent so much money on his brand and name and fighting this that he pretty much has no choice but to continue with the deception ...
seriously, what sport doesn't have guys that cheat? I can't think of any
True. But I think all the hate is because (not only the lies), but the fact that he was pretty good before his head turned into an over-sized watermelon like Juggler said..and he cheated to get to the VERY TOP. he could've been good without the cheating..why wasnt he satisfied with that? probably because he's greedy.
True. But I think all the hate is because (not only the lies), but the fact that he was pretty good before his head turned into an over-sized watermelon like Juggler said..and he cheated to get to the VERY TOP. he could've been good without the cheating..why wasnt he satisfied with that? probably because he's greedy.
No, he was great. First ballot Hall of Famer before he ever slapped on the cream. He was jealous of McGwire & Sosa. He was having a perfectly normal career arc - he was still a great player, but on the other end of his prime, which was fine. And then, well, you know. Don't get me wrong, I still couldn't stand him even back then, but at least I respected how great a player he was. By 2001 i had NO respect for him at all. It was just a sham.
I know my beloved 1993 Phils were all juiced up, but at least we were all fairly naive back then. By 2001 it was obvious to all.
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seriously, what sport doesn't have guys that cheat? I can't think of any
i'm not so jaded to think every sport has cheaters ... but again, it's secondary ... it's debatable whether they cheated as the league never banned PEDs previously ... the use of PED's without authorized use is against the law ... and when they had a chance to come clean - they didn't take the high road ... that's my gripe ... not the fact they took PEDs ...
depends what they were taking. back in 98 mcgwire was buying andro at GNC
athletes are always going to look for an edge. it's human nature...especially when you get to these pro levels. all part of the game as far as I'm concerned
depends what they were taking. back in 98 mcgwire was buying andro at GNC
athletes are always going to look for an edge. it's human nature...especially when you get to these pro levels. all part of the game as far as I'm concerned
again ... it's not about the edge or cheating ... it's about not coming clean when they were caught ... and under oath ... it's about the lack of class and integrity ...
i give marion jones respect ... she gave up her medals and she did time ... way more respect for her than any of these baseball losers ...
depends what they were taking. back in 98 mcgwire was buying andro at GNC
athletes are always going to look for an edge. it's human nature...especially when you get to these pro levels. all part of the game as far as I'm concerned
again ... it's not about the edge or cheating ... it's about not coming clean when they were caught ... and under oath ... it's about the lack of class and integrity ...
i give marion jones respect ... she gave up her medals and she did time ... way more respect for her than any of these baseball losers ...
didn't marion jones trainer husband stand trial against her? I remember something crazy during that story. I could be wrong but I don't think she voluntarily admitted guilt.
the MLB guys were afraid of retribution from their own union IMO.
the roids era is over. people need to let it go. there are a lot of people that were in the wrong during that time period
depends what they were taking. back in 98 mcgwire was buying andro at GNC
athletes are always going to look for an edge. it's human nature...especially when you get to these pro levels. all part of the game as far as I'm concerned
again ... it's not about the edge or cheating ... it's about not coming clean when they were caught ... and under oath ... it's about the lack of class and integrity ...
i give marion jones respect ... she gave up her medals and she did time ... way more respect for her than any of these baseball losers ...
Didn't Marion Jones admit it after she sat in jail. I don't think she had much of a choice to give medeals back.
you guys are probably right ... i was trying to come up with an example off the top of my head ... either way - you guys get my point ...
i'll never forget that moment when mcgwire was in front of that jury and he said nothing ... sad ...
'I'm not here to talk about the past'
I really feel like none of those guys wanted to be remembered as the whistleblower that exposed the entire sport. Except for canseco, but that's because he was blackballed.
you guys are probably right ... i was trying to come up with an example off the top of my head ... either way - you guys get my point ...
i'll never forget that moment when mcgwire was in front of that jury and he said nothing ... sad ...
The fact that they were even called before the Senate is an embarrassment. Those grandstanding twats had bigger issues to contend with. Baseball fans don't need to be treated like children.
Comments
I agree. The players are mostly to blame for this. They are the ones that resisted testing for so long. The MLBPA is arguably the strongest union in the country...Selig would actually be low on the list of scapegoats as far as steroid use is concerned.
Anyway, none of this should take away from thome's run at 600
is andro banned now?
Yes.
This. And I don't think it will since he was never linked to PEDs.
Yeah, as of 2004.
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as for the roids - the biggest beef i have is that when the shit hit the fan most of these hosers took the cowardly approach and lied or kept quiet ... if they are man enough to "cheat" they should be man enough to admit it ... but like the guys they are - they haven't ... integrity - there is none ...
back to those asshole writers...guys like tom verducci are the worst...they write articles like "Barry Bonds Smashing", they never mention steroids and then, after the fact, they grow a conscience :x . same with the toga clad mcgwire and sosa as SI's Sportsmen or the Year in 1998.
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Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
i wish we can just erase that whole era from our collective minds.
i'm a sports fan ... but i value fair play, integrity and class above winning ... i can understand that guys would use PEDs if they weren't banned and the league turned a blind eye ... i got no problem with that ...
but when you're under oath and the whole world is watching and everyone knows you used them and kids are watching ... the guys i support come clean ...
lance has spent so much money on his brand and name and fighting this that he pretty much has no choice but to continue with the deception ...
Dude, did Barry Bonds kill your dog while taking steroids or something? How did all this impact and traumatize you so much?
I just don't get the big deal, we know the majority of players were on steroids and we know they had an advantage over players in the 60's and 70's just like those players had an advantage over Ruth and them with greenies and black players being integrated.
I don't get the whole steroids ruined my childhood BS. I don't look back at that time I spent watching baseball any differently. I have the same memories and got the same enjoyment out of that time now as I did then.
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Phila fans have a special hatred for Barry Bonds that dates back to the Pittsburgh days and his gay stabbing catches in the outfield. Combine that with the city's disposition in general and you have a level of irritation towards this particular athlete normally reserved only for the Dallas Cowboys.
I even saw Bonds play in Dodger Stadium, and there wasn't nearly the animosity that there was in Philly. As for me, I'm right with everyone else - I can't stand anything about the guy, never could and never will.
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i actually liked him until his head ballooned into an oversized watermellon.
seriously, what sport doesn't have guys that cheat? I can't think of any
pre-marriage fixer used to LOVE when bonds came to town and his games landed on my plan. section 145, row 5 would always represent
i'm not so jaded to think every sport has cheaters ... but again, it's secondary ... it's debatable whether they cheated as the league never banned PEDs previously ... the use of PED's without authorized use is against the law ... and when they had a chance to come clean - they didn't take the high road ... that's my gripe ... not the fact they took PEDs ...
True. But I think all the hate is because (not only the lies), but the fact that he was pretty good before his head turned into an over-sized watermelon like Juggler said..and he cheated to get to the VERY TOP. he could've been good without the cheating..why wasnt he satisfied with that? probably because he's greedy.
No, he was great. First ballot Hall of Famer before he ever slapped on the cream. He was jealous of McGwire & Sosa. He was having a perfectly normal career arc - he was still a great player, but on the other end of his prime, which was fine. And then, well, you know. Don't get me wrong, I still couldn't stand him even back then, but at least I respected how great a player he was. By 2001 i had NO respect for him at all. It was just a sham.
I know my beloved 1993 Phils were all juiced up, but at least we were all fairly naive back then. By 2001 it was obvious to all.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
depends what they were taking. back in 98 mcgwire was buying andro at GNC
athletes are always going to look for an edge. it's human nature...especially when you get to these pro levels. all part of the game as far as I'm concerned
again ... it's not about the edge or cheating ... it's about not coming clean when they were caught ... and under oath ... it's about the lack of class and integrity ...
i give marion jones respect ... she gave up her medals and she did time ... way more respect for her than any of these baseball losers ...
didn't marion jones trainer husband stand trial against her? I remember something crazy during that story. I could be wrong but I don't think she voluntarily admitted guilt.
the MLB guys were afraid of retribution from their own union IMO.
the roids era is over. people need to let it go. there are a lot of people that were in the wrong during that time period
Didn't Marion Jones admit it after she sat in jail. I don't think she had much of a choice to give medeals back.
i'll never forget that moment when mcgwire was in front of that jury and he said nothing ... sad ...
'I'm not here to talk about the past'
I really feel like none of those guys wanted to be remembered as the whistleblower that exposed the entire sport. Except for canseco, but that's because he was blackballed.
The fact that they were even called before the Senate is an embarrassment. Those grandstanding twats had bigger issues to contend with. Baseball fans don't need to be treated like children.
HUGE swing in the NL West.