Ben Roethlisberger

eyedclaar

inmytree wrote:

scb wrote:

Wow, inmytree... the article you posted makes me ashamed to be part of this culture. I wish its writer would get raped by this guy, and then I'd like to see if he feels the same way.

I would agree with you if Roethisberger were convicted by a court of law...

the court of public opinion seems to have different rules...

And you think the law equally applies to the mega-rich super star hanging with the cops on the night in question? You don't think some folks get away with bloody murder? Public opinion isn't always right, but neither are convictions, or the lack thereof...

blackredyellow

inmytree wrote:

scb wrote:

Wow, inmytree... the article you posted makes me ashamed to be part of this culture. I wish its writer would get raped by this guy, and then I'd like to see if he feels the same way.

I would agree with you if Roethisberger were convicted by a court of law...

the court of public opinion seems to have different rules...

and too, the article was about the steelers trading him... what does that do besides make him move? it's not like trading him (and his $100 million contract) is any sort of punishment for him.

RW81233

inmytree wrote:

scb wrote:

Wow, inmytree... the article you posted makes me ashamed to be part of this culture. I wish its writer would get raped by this guy, and then I'd like to see if he feels the same way.

I would agree with you if Roethisberger were convicted by a court of law...

the court of public opinion seems to have different rules...

when you stopped reading the Zirin article, which I think was spot on given that a year before in Georgia a young black male who was 17 is in jail after having been tried as an adult for having consensual sex with a 14 year old girl, you missed the part where he read both police reports from Tahoe and Georgia. They had the same exact story...Ben parties with his boys, tells them to not hang out that night and goes out with cops. Then he buys the girl drinks and has his cop friends bar the door while he has at them in the bar bathroom. Thus, the girl in Georgia either "read the Tahoe report on the off chance that Big Ben would find himself in the middle of nowhere Georgia", or Ben is a total creep. Given that evidence, which admittedly didn't fly in Georgia because the doctor decided not to say that it was rape despite another doctor suggesting that his diagnosis was stupid, the bar tapes "disappeared", and the lead investigating cop (who was later fired) was reported to have said that the girl should "have considered herself lucky to have sex with Ben", the court of public opinion may have a better handle on the situation than the moronic "justice" system in Georgia.

As for trading Big Ben, as Herm Edwards said today he's obviously got a major problem and he needs help. Football should be the farthest thing from his mind right now, and where he plays shouldn't be a concern of the fans. Trade or not, in lieu of a deserved jail sentence he needs to take care of his issues. Given this pattern, and evidence that these aren't the only two times he's done this, maybe there is something actually wrong with him that trading isn't going to help. Most rapists don't just become that way through a "normal" childhood, and, if he has these issues (which is an IF) then having his football "family" jettison him is only going to exacerbate those problems. And no I am not sticking up for him, it just seems like he needs some sort of guidance right now since he's not getting the justice he deserves.

blackredyellow

RW81233 wrote:

...you missed the part where he read both police reports from Tahoe and Georgia. They had the same exact story...Ben parties with his boys, tells them to not hang out that night and goes out with cops. Then he buys the girl drinks and has his cop friends bar the door while he has at them in the bar bathroom.

In the article he made reference to the Tahoe case being similar, but besides alleged sexual assaults they are not even close to the "exact same story". I guess if you substitute 20 year old drunk college girl in a bar bathroom, with a 30 year old, sober, hotel concierge who he invited to his room that night, who bragged to her friends the next day about sleeping with him and wanted to travel to pittsburgh later that summer to see him, then I guess they are the exact same story.

I'm not saying Ben isn't an entitled-feeling scumbag who apparently takes advantage of women, but this writer seems to be going out of his way just to pull the race card and sexism card.

_

inmytree wrote:

scb wrote:

Wow, inmytree... the article you posted makes me ashamed to be part of this culture. I wish its writer would get raped by this guy, and then I'd like to see if he feels the same way.

I would agree with you if Roethisberger were convicted by a court of law...

the court of public opinion seems to have different rules...

Yeah, you have a point. But I got the impression that the author believes he did it and just thinks it's irrelevant.

_

blackredyellow wrote:

inmytree wrote:

scb wrote:

Wow, inmytree... the article you posted makes me ashamed to be part of this culture. I wish its writer would get raped by this guy, and then I'd like to see if he feels the same way.

I would agree with you if Roethisberger were convicted by a court of law...

the court of public opinion seems to have different rules...

and too, the article was about the steelers trading him... what does that do besides make him move? it's not like trading him (and his $100 million contract) is any sort of punishment for him.

At least it sends a message to him and to the fans that they don't want to support someone like him. Even if someone else is going to support him anyway, it doesn't mean they have to do it.

_

RW81233 wrote:

As for trading Big Ben, as Herm Edwards said today he's obviously got a major problem and he needs help. Football should be the farthest thing from his mind right now, and where he plays shouldn't be a concern of the fans. Trade or not, in lieu of a deserved jail sentence he needs to take care of his issues. Given this pattern, and evidence that these aren't the only two times he's done this, maybe there is something actually wrong with him that trading isn't going to help. Most rapists don't just become that way through a "normal" childhood, and, if he has these issues (which is an IF) then having his football "family" jettison him is only going to exacerbate those problems. And no I am not sticking up for him, it just seems like he needs some sort of guidance right now since he's not getting the justice he deserves.

I would suggest that his "problem" likely stems, in whole or at least in part, from the fact that he can do these things not only with no real consequences, but with the knowledge that he will still be treated like some kind of king. He'll still be rich and famous just because he can play football, he'll still have people kissing his ass everywhere he goes, and even cops will say women are lucky to have been raped by him. Why would he even think he's doing anything wrong if the ultimate message he's receiving is that he's not?

_

blackredyellow wrote:

I'm not saying Ben isn't an entitled-feeling scumbag who apparently takes advantage of women, but this writer seems to be going out of his way just to pull the race card and sexism card.

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. But how is getting away with raping women - or even getting away with feeling entitled to take advantage of women - anything but sexist?

eyedclaar

scb wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

I'm not saying Ben isn't an entitled-feeling scumbag who apparently takes advantage of women, but this writer seems to be going out of his way just to pull the race card and sexism card.

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. But how is getting away with raping women - or even getting away with feeling entitled to take advantage of women - anything but sexist?

*in my best Elvis voice - "I like you, scb, always have, always will."

Ledbetterman10

If the Raiders had half a brain they'd trade for him tonight. He's disgraced in Pittsburgh. Raiders fans won't care about the past so long as he could play. They haven't had a winning season since like 2002. Sure it will look ugly now when you trade for a rapist-loser who has to serve a 6 game suspension....but 3 years from now, the Raiders may have a shot with him.

RW81233

blackredyellow wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

...you missed the part where he read both police reports from Tahoe and Georgia. They had the same exact story...Ben parties with his boys, tells them to not hang out that night and goes out with cops. Then he buys the girl drinks and has his cop friends bar the door while he has at them in the bar bathroom.

In the article he made reference to the Tahoe case being similar, but besides alleged sexual assaults they are not even close to the "exact same story". I guess if you substitute 20 year old drunk college girl in a bar bathroom, with a 30 year old, sober, hotel concierge who he invited to his room that night, who bragged to her friends the next day about sleeping with him and wanted to travel to pittsburgh later that summer to see him, then I guess they are the exact same story.

I'm not saying Ben isn't an entitled-feeling scumbag who apparently takes advantage of women, but this writer seems to be going out of his way just to pull the race card and sexism card.

exactly scb how is this not sexism of the highest order? secondly the facts are that the cops barred the door so he could do his thing in the room with a girl, in a state where a young black male is sitting in jail for having consensual sex...how is this not indicative of a race issue? third, race and gender are not cards that you play like a game, they are very real issues that some people in this world have to contend with on a second-by-second basis to degrade it in such a way as to call it a "card" is, at my most respectful, silly.

inmytree

RW81233 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

scb wrote:

Wow, inmytree... the article you posted makes me ashamed to be part of this culture. I wish its writer would get raped by this guy, and then I'd like to see if he feels the same way.

I would agree with you if Roethisberger were convicted by a court of law...

the court of public opinion seems to have different rules...

when you stopped reading the Zirin article, which I think was spot on given that a year before in Georgia a young black male who was 17 is in jail after having been tried as an adult for having consensual sex with a 14 year old girl, you missed the part where he read both police reports from Tahoe and Georgia. They had the same exact story...Ben parties with his boys, tells them to not hang out that night and goes out with cops. Then he buys the girl drinks and has his cop friends bar the door while he has at them in the bar bathroom. Thus, the girl in Georgia either "read the Tahoe report on the off chance that Big Ben would find himself in the middle of nowhere Georgia", or Ben is a total creep. Given that evidence, which admittedly didn't fly in Georgia because the doctor decided not to say that it was rape despite another doctor suggesting that his diagnosis was stupid, the bar tapes "disappeared", and the lead investigating cop (who was later fired) was reported to have said that the girl should "have considered herself lucky to have sex with Ben", the court of public opinion may have a better handle on the situation than the moronic "justice" system in Georgia.

As for trading Big Ben, as Herm Edwards said today he's obviously got a major problem and he needs help. Football should be the farthest thing from his mind right now, and where he plays shouldn't be a concern of the fans. Trade or not, in lieu of a deserved jail sentence he needs to take care of his issues. Given this pattern, and evidence that these aren't the only two times he's done this, maybe there is something actually wrong with him that trading isn't going to help. Most rapists don't just become that way through a "normal" childhood, and, if he has these issues (which is an IF) then having his football "family" jettison him is only going to exacerbate those problems. And no I am not sticking up for him, it just seems like he needs some sort of guidance right now since he's not getting the justice he deserves.

I'm trying to figure out how a 17 year old black male having sex with a 14 year old has anything to do with this situation...
As for the police reports, Blackredyellow debunked that point...

it seems the judge in you has made a decision and you're sticking with in....I guess that's easy when you combine irrelevant issues...

I agree, Ben has some issues...I wonder if he has some sort of TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) from his motorcycle accident ...Please know, I'm not condoning his actions....his behavior caught up with him, and he now reaping the consequences...

_

eyedclaar wrote:

scb wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

I'm not saying Ben isn't an entitled-feeling scumbag who apparently takes advantage of women, but this writer seems to be going out of his way just to pull the race card and sexism card.

Admittedly, I didn't read the article. But how is getting away with raping women - or even getting away with feeling entitled to take advantage of women - anything but sexist?

*in my best Elvis voice - "I like you, scb, always have, always will."

mfc2006

he's an asshole. a sick, twisted, lying asshole. just thought i'd chime in.

_

inmytree wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how a 17 year old black male having sex with a 14 year old has anything to do with this situation...

RW81233 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it has something to do with unequal enforcement of the law.

inmytree wrote:

his behavior caught up with him, and he now reaping the consequences...

I think I missed the part where he's reaping the consequences. How's that again? :?

inmytree

scb wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how a 17 year old black male having sex with a 14 year old has anything to do with this situation...

RW81233 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it has something to do with unequal enforcement of the law.

inmytree wrote:

his behavior caught up with him, and he now reaping the consequences...

I think I missed the part where he's reaping the consequences. How's that again? :?

A) Honestly, I still don't see the connection...it's apples and orange to me...

Roethlisberger will lose at least $1,894,117.64 of his 2010 salary for missing four games. If he misses six, it would take place over the Steelers' bye week, which means he would lose seven weeks of salary or $3,314,705.87

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10111/10 ... z0ls8qXXV7

_

inmytree wrote:

Roethlisberger will lose at least $1,894,117.64 of his 2010 salary for missing four games. If he misses six, it would take place over the Steelers' bye week, which means he would lose seven weeks of salary or $3,314,705.87

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10111/10 ... z0ls8qXXV7

Thanks for the info. I guess I just don't think those are significant consequences.

RW81233

the circumstances where different, but what he did when he had both alone weren't. like i said read the police reports and then maybe you will change your mind. keep in mind i both liked big ben (mostly because he made pats fans squirm over his constant threat to the brady legacy), and thought it was a drunken night thing at first. i've clearly been convinced otherwise.

blackredyellow

RW81233 wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

...you missed the part where he read both police reports from Tahoe and Georgia. They had the same exact story...Ben parties with his boys, tells them to not hang out that night and goes out with cops. Then he buys the girl drinks and has his cop friends bar the door while he has at them in the bar bathroom.

In the article he made reference to the Tahoe case being similar, but besides alleged sexual assaults they are not even close to the "exact same story". I guess if you substitute 20 year old drunk college girl in a bar bathroom, with a 30 year old, sober, hotel concierge who he invited to his room that night, who bragged to her friends the next day about sleeping with him and wanted to travel to pittsburgh later that summer to see him, then I guess they are the exact same story.

I'm not saying Ben isn't an entitled-feeling scumbag who apparently takes advantage of women, but this writer seems to be going out of his way just to pull the race card and sexism card.

exactly scb how is this not sexism of the highest order? secondly the facts are that the cops barred the door so he could do his thing in the room with a girl, in a state where a young black male is sitting in jail for having consensual sex...how is this not indicative of a race issue? third, race and gender are not cards that you play like a game, they are very real issues that some people in this world have to contend with on a second-by-second basis to degrade it in such a way as to call it a "card" is, at my most respectful, silly.

Of course sexual assault is sexism, but the writer is instead talking about the sexism of the National Football League. H is all over the map, makes generalizations and plays with facts to make and asshole football player's actions somehow an example of racism (a black kid who committed a different "crime" treated differently - like inmytree said - apples and oranges), and sexism (In a league where an accepted culture of sexism exists from the cheerleaders to the commercials, to the locker room, Goodell better choose wisely). It seems that Zirin has other issues with the Georgia legal system and our society that he's trying to somehow pin on Roethlisberger.

Re-reading the article, I found another thing that he just made up" "Roethlisberger went out on the town not with his normal entourage but with off-duty cops: people who know the value of silence. He had a game plan."

According to police reports and media reports, Roethlisberger (who has a home in the area) was out for his birthday with among a few others, a couple of highschool buddies, a teammate, and an off duty PA state cop who works for Ben (who has since been barred from working for him). It's no like Ben recruited a bunch of thugs go help him rape a random college girl like the author is inferring.

Look, what he did was despicable... we've probably all seem some scumbag in college take advantage of a clearly overly intoxicated girl and probably do something similar... it's even worse when someone who is 28 years old and should know so much better does something like that... that kind of dirtbag will never get any respect from me... So it's not like I am even defending him or what he is accused of, but this writer is totally off base.

eeriepadave