Are kids so terrible?

justam

Lauri wrote:

justam wrote:

I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"

But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.

Lauri, I think when you put yourself aside to care for your elderly family members it's the same idea.

Good for you. Don't ruin your message by putting parents down.

It's fine if you don't want children but for some people I think it's the first time it occurs to them to be selfless.
And, that's a good thing. It's positive for them.

stardust1976

Lauri wrote:

justam wrote:

I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"

But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.

That seems like a fairly broad generalisation, don't you think? And when people have kids, SHOULDN'T they focus a lot of their energy on their families? And do you really not know anyone who has kids, who has an equal balance of their own life and their family life? If so, then I kinda feel sorry for you, because there are many many people out there who do manage a very successful balance, and it's a lovely thing to witness, and be part of.

Pearlybaker

I have two girls 16 & 13 (awesome kids who never get in trouble and do great in school) and here's my only thought on the topic -

I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.

I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.

justam

Pearlybaker wrote:

I have two girls 16 & 13 (awesome kids who never get in trouble and do great in school) and here's my only thought on the topic -

I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.

I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.

You're getting close. Buck up.

My oldest son is finally reaching 18. I can see freedom from this stage from this stage of life looming on the horizon. He's a great kid. (A job well done.)

Just hold on. You're almost there. (!)

pandora

justam wrote:

Lauri wrote:

justam wrote:

I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"

But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.

Lauri, I think when you put yourself aside to care for your elderly family members it's the same idea.

Good for you. Don't ruin your message by putting parents down.

It's fine if you don't want children but for some people I think it's the first time it occurs to them to be selfless.
And, that's a good thing. It's positive for them.

Its so much more than being selfless its the circle of life that God gave us. Hopefully people will continue to choose to be loving parents not only for the children to come but for their own souls.

tinkerbell

Lauri wrote:

mbangel10 wrote:

I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.

The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.

or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL

I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.

But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.

It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.

I feel sorry for you both. Not because you don't want to have children - I truely believe its a personal choice and not for everyone, but because it sounds like you have never experienced true, full blown love.

To love and be loved is what defines the human experiece and differentiates us from the rest of the living creatures on earth. You don't need to have children to experience it, but the love I have for my children is the most intense amazing feeling. My love for my partner (their dad) has grown exponentially since we had our children. To think of my life without that makes me sad. And just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that you shouldn't want to.

By the way I totally love my kids but as a whole am not a big fan of other peoples children!!

Cinnamon Girl

Our world is overpopulated enough. If a woman chooses not to have kids I say "good on ya!"

I'm an Auntie...but because I'm also a Mommy, I cant be half the Auntie I want to be. It's all in how you choose, and what you choose to put yourself into.

Kids are amazing and exhausting. They're breathtaking and exasperating. They're wonderful and terrible. I have 2 and I couldn't handle anymore. I respect those who decide motherhood isn't for them. There's many mothers who should have thought about it a bit longer before making babies. You know the ones I mean.

Franny

Cinnamon Girl wrote:

Our world is overpopulated enough. If a woman chooses not to have kids I say "good on ya!"

I'm an Auntie...but because I'm also a Mommy, I cant be half the Auntie I want to be. It's all in how you choose, and what you choose to put yourself into.

Kids are amazing and exhausting. They're breathtaking and exasperating. They're wonderful and terrible. I have 2 and I couldn't handle anymore. I respect those who decide motherhood isn't for them. There's many mothers who should have thought about it a bit longer before making babies. You know the ones I mean. [/quote]

Yes surely do! And I have to drive past thier house everyday. ]( if only sterilisation could be enforced!!! )
Having kids is a personal choice, and no-one should be judged for the deciding they don't want to. I never wanted to have kids, then had a big whoopsie and lo-and -behold I had a kid! Serioulsy, the best thing that has ever happened to me. Changed my perspective on life and priorities, and overall made me a better person. Before I was a selfish, immature bitch...now I am just a bitch! Unfortunatley there are some who should never have had kids and it is the kids who will suffer in the long run. At least some people can be objctive about it.

mbangel10

tinkerbell wrote:

Lauri wrote:

mbangel10 wrote:

I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.

The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.

or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL

I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.

But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.

It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.

I feel sorry for you both. Not because you don't want to have children - I truely believe its a personal choice and not for everyone, but because it sounds like you have never experienced true, full blown love.

Wow, I guess my parents must have hated me then. I guess when my mom was seriously ill and I helped her through long nights at the hospital, or changed her bed pan or helped her bathe when she was bed ridden.... it must have been purely selfish on my part and not full blown love.

Please do not judge people that you do not know. I do not want or need you to feel sorry for me. Honestly.

I'm happy for you that you are a parent, and love your children whole heartedly... if all parents did that, this world would be a better place.

pandora

Pearlybaker wrote:

I have two girls 16 & 13 (awesome kids who never get in trouble and do great in school) and here's my only thought on the topic -

I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.

I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.

Well, sorry but I don't think that ever happens for a parent. Yes, you become empty nesters and there is more time for yourself and marriage, it's wonderful. But that worry or concern stays. Whatever your adult child goes through your heart goes too. The joys and sorrows and the consequences of their choices. I look at my mother in law now in her mid eighties. She still worries about us in our 50's. What we go through she goes through. But no parent would want it any other way. That's the beauty of it. That's a lifetime of love.
PS.... you are a lucky father, your young teen girls are not causing you much worry, you better rest up just in case

tinkerbell

mbangel10 wrote:

Wow, I guess my parents must have hated me then. I guess when my mom was seriously ill and I helped her through long nights at the hospital, or changed her bed pan or helped her bathe when she was bed ridden.... it must have been purely selfish on my part and not full blown love.

Please do not judge people that you do not know. I do not want or need you to feel sorry for me. Honestly.

I'm happy for you that you are a parent, and love your children whole heartedly... if all parents did that, this world would be a better place.

I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. Aren't we all judging each other when we post things on these boards. My comments weren't directed squarely at you, if you re-read the response to your thread from the other person - my comments were more directed to her post.

I don't at all dismiss the love that anyone shares with their parents and family. I think it's amazing the selfless way you cared for your mother and I'm very sorry that you have lost someone who you obviously love.

The love I have for my mum and dad is quite a different love than the love I feel towards my partner and children. Love is a great and wonderful thing and however you experience it I hope that it brightens your life.

pandora

tinkerbell wrote:

Love is a great and wonderful thing and however you experience it I hope that it brightens your life.

:thumbup: well said
can't argue with a fairie
truly though you have a beautiful heart

tinkerbell

pandora wrote:

tinkerbell wrote:

Love is a great and wonderful thing and however you experience it I hope that it brightens your life.

:thumbup: well said
can't argue with a fairie
truly though you have a beautiful heart

Thanks! My job as a fairy is to spread the love

Get_Right

well Im not going to read all the posts

but kids are a lot of work, they cause a lot of stress, and they take up 99% of my free time and my paycheck

that being said, nothing makes me happier or brings more joy to my life than my children-watching and helping them grow up is simply the best experience

And I truly believe that you cant really feel that joy until you have your own kids.

tbhooptie

Get_Right wrote:

well Im not going to read all the posts

but kids are a lot of work, they cause a lot of stress, and they take up 99% of my free time and my paycheck

that being said, nothing makes me happier or brings more joy to my life than my children-watching and helping them grow up is simply the best experience

And I truly believe that you cant really fell that joy until you have your own kids.

This is 100% the truth. Neither my wife nor I wanted children. I enjoyed being free to do what I wanted, when I wanted...

Now I have 2 girl, 3 year old and a 6 month old. The 6 month old still doesnt sleep through the night. She wakes up at midnight and 5am, cries and will not go back to sleep. You get out of bed thinking "THIS BABY IS GONNA BE THE DEATH OF ME"... but you walk into her room and she is waiting for you, peering through the bars of her crib... and when she sees you she lets out this big smile... immediately, rocking her to sleep is the only thing you WANT to be doing at that moment...

So yes, Kids are a ROYAL pain in the butt, but looking back now.. I didnt realize how empty I was til I had my girls and can now see why people say "you will only understand when you have your OWN children."

Lizard

So to sum it up.....kids can be terrible and great!!

Have them if you want them....don't have them if you don't want them.

Pretty simple!!

eyedclaar

Lizard wrote:

So to sum it up.....kids can be terrible and great!!

Have them if you want them....don't have them if you don't want them.

Pretty simple!!

I'll take a heavy dose of the latter, please.

florence151

Our son got us interested in pearl Jam in 1997. You can learn a lot from your kids!

Being a parent is one of the best experiences of my life.

angryyoungman

my wife is pregnant now and to tell you the truth im really not that thrilled about it. . .it was her idea and basically she just wore me down and now here we are. . .i was always up in the air about having kids (mostly leaning towards not having them), and i told her this early in our relationship, and she was upset about it, so after that whenever it came up i kind of just didnt really say alot about it because i really did love her and truthfully i think i was afraid to be alone. . .i was always safe when it came to sex but she wore me down and also gave me the impression it could be a difficult process, but after a long time of hearing about it i caved and all it took was a couple of times unprotected and it happened. . .the sad thing is i really dont feel any attachment to it and i also feel resentful towards her for convincing me to do something i didnt really want to do, and this has really strained what was a great relationship between us. . . the situation often makes me feel depressed, sad, angry, and alone and i feel like people dont understand my point of view and will think im some kind of scumbag or deadbeat so for the most part i keep it to myself. . .im hopeful somehow things will be ok, but i dont know whats going to happen,. . .thanks for listening to me vent needed to get this off my chest and its easier to do with a bunch of strangers

The Juggler

they're the worst...