True in that parents don't always see their children as people but also children don't see parents as people either. Its the nature of the relationship.
While this is true, an adult is an adult and a child is a child. Actual "children" may not be developed enough to think that way. There's not much of an excuse for an adult parent.
I think if young people over think or make it a huge lifetime decision it might cause even more fear than what is normally experienced and they may choose not to out of this fear and really miss out.
The sacrifices, the learning to be less self centered, that comes along with being a parent, happens gradually over time and the heart grows and the parent matures.
Yes way to many are having babies with no thought at all when they are way to young and they are not ready to give of themselves. And often this is history repeating itself as their parents did and as their example.
Well I think that a statement like this is actually part of the problem I was describing. You say that a person who chooses not to have a child, because they are thinking about it as a huge lifetime decision, and/or are afraid, they will necessarily "really miss out." I disagree with this. First, having a kid is a huge lifetime decision! I am in my 30s, and my life is the way it is without kids, and it's not too bad. If I throw a kid into the mix, it's changes everything, for ever. Second, I think this is a reasonable thing to be "afraid" of. Not everyone is meant to have kids. I'm sure that in a lot of ways, I could be a very good parent- I'm educated, have a good family, etc. But that doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for me to think that having a kid might be a risk I might not want to take. Third, is someone is "afraid" to have kids, then that seems like exactly the person who shouldn't have them! Fourth, I believe the "really missing out" thing is a big problem in our culture. There have been a lot of books and articles around lately warning women that if they don't have kids, they will regret it later. I feel this is fearmongering, and it places unnecessary doubt into the minds of people who have made decisions that are right for them. It also perpetuates the idea that all women ultimately want to, and are supposed to, have kids, and if they don't, there is something wrong with them. Plus, it makes people who actually would like to have kids, but can't for whatever reason, feel even worse. Too often it is taken for granted that everyone on the planet has the same life or the same goals in life. People's lives just go the way go, and making people feel that they are "missing out" because their's went one path instead of another just doesn't get anyone anywhere.
If one is going to think of the lifetime commitment think of the love that is created and the lifetime of joy too. Plenty of hard work but so very worth it.
I also find this problematic. I don't believe that every parenting experience will necessarily involve love and joy and be "worth it." I honestly don't. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way about their experiences, but we also tend to cling to magical ideas in our culture. Blanket statements like are exactly the ones that make people think that they should have kids because it will all just be love and joy and awesomeness. If you had said, "the flip side of the chance of a lifetime of problems is the chance of a lifetime joy/love" then I can accept that. But to say that for everyone the work is worth it is very naive. People tend to say things like, "oh when you have your own kid, it'll be different." Well you know, that might happen...but it seems like an awfully risky undertaking to put your entire life in the hands of a magic.
I don't really have to make a decision about having kids so I really don't think about it, but in my mind, the things we tend to see as somehow magical really aren't much different than anything else in life. If I never have kids before I die, well that's just something I didn't do. I also will probably die without ever climbing mt everest or playing the french horn. To some people those experiences are magical, and they can't imagine the work that goes into them as being anything but worth it. But no one would say that everyone who considers the risks of climbing mt. everest or doesn't want to put the time into learning the french horn and doesn't do so as a result has "missed out."
I just have to say, I was afraid but didn't give it a a lot of thought before having my children and if I do say so myself have been a good mother. And being that Mom has made me who I am today which is by far a better person than if I'd chosen not to.
I think this is true for all good parents. You can only know this if you do this.
I feel you are totally missing the love part, the only way love would not be a part of the parent child relationship is if the adult was incapable of love, because children love. I believe love to be the only thing of real value in our lives. I am an advocate for love
But you may not be cut out to be a Mom. Your attitude seems like perhaps its not what you want. If you are not understanding the value of giving of yourself and loving a child then you may not be. Although I think fear may be what holds you back. Why mess up a good thing? Because it is a chance to grow and love.
And you know what? it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.
True in that parents don't always see their children as people but also children don't see parents as people either. Its the nature of the relationship.
While this is true, an adult is an adult and a child is a child. Actual "children" may not be developed enough to think that way. There's not much of an excuse for an adult parent.
I think if young people over think or make it a huge lifetime decision it might cause even more fear than what is normally experienced and they may choose not to out of this fear and really miss out.
The sacrifices, the learning to be less self centered, that comes along with being a parent, happens gradually over time and the heart grows and the parent matures.
Yes way to many are having babies with no thought at all when they are way to young and they are not ready to give of themselves. And often this is history repeating itself as their parents did and as their example.
Well I think that a statement like this is actually part of the problem I was describing. You say that a person who chooses not to have a child, because they are thinking about it as a huge lifetime decision, and/or are afraid, they will necessarily "really miss out." I disagree with this. First, having a kid is a huge lifetime decision! I am in my 30s, and my life is the way it is without kids, and it's not too bad. If I throw a kid into the mix, it's changes everything, for ever. Second, I think this is a reasonable thing to be "afraid" of. Not everyone is meant to have kids. I'm sure that in a lot of ways, I could be a very good parent- I'm educated, have a good family, etc. But that doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for me to think that having a kid might be a risk I might not want to take. Third, is someone is "afraid" to have kids, then that seems like exactly the person who shouldn't have them! Fourth, I believe the "really missing out" thing is a big problem in our culture. There have been a lot of books and articles around lately warning women that if they don't have kids, they will regret it later. I feel this is fearmongering, and it places unnecessary doubt into the minds of people who have made decisions that are right for them. It also perpetuates the idea that all women ultimately want to, and are supposed to, have kids, and if they don't, there is something wrong with them. Plus, it makes people who actually would like to have kids, but can't for whatever reason, feel even worse. Too often it is taken for granted that everyone on the planet has the same life or the same goals in life. People's lives just go the way go, and making people feel that they are "missing out" because their's went one path instead of another just doesn't get anyone anywhere.
If one is going to think of the lifetime commitment think of the love that is created and the lifetime of joy too. Plenty of hard work but so very worth it.
I also find this problematic. I don't believe that every parenting experience will necessarily involve love and joy and be "worth it." I honestly don't. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way about their experiences, but we also tend to cling to magical ideas in our culture. Blanket statements like are exactly the ones that make people think that they should have kids because it will all just be love and joy and awesomeness. If you had said, "the flip side of the chance of a lifetime of problems is the chance of a lifetime joy/love" then I can accept that. But to say that for everyone the work is worth it is very naive. People tend to say things like, "oh when you have your own kid, it'll be different." Well you know, that might happen...but it seems like an awfully risky undertaking to put your entire life in the hands of a magic.
I don't really have to make a decision about having kids so I really don't think about it, but in my mind, the things we tend to see as somehow magical really aren't much different than anything else in life. If I never have kids before I die, well that's just something I didn't do. I also will probably die without ever climbing mt everest or playing the french horn. To some people those experiences are magical, and they can't imagine the work that goes into them as being anything but worth it. But no one would say that everyone who considers the risks of climbing mt. everest or doesn't want to put the time into learning the french horn and doesn't do so as a result has "missed out."
I just have to say, I was afraid but didn't give it a a lot of thought before having my children and if I do say so myself have been a good mother. And being that Mom has made me who I am today which is by far a better person than if I'd chosen not to.
I think this is true for all good parents. You can only know this if you do this.
I feel you are totally missing the love part, the only way love would not be a part of the parent child relationship is if the adult was incapable of love, because children love. I believe love to be the only thing of real value in our lives. I am an advocate for love
But you may not be cut out to be a Mom. Your attitude seems like perhaps its not what you want. If you are not understanding the value of giving of yourself and loving a child then you may not be. Although I think fear may be what holds you back. Why mess up a good thing? Because it is a chance to grow and love.
And you know what? it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.
I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.
The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.
or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL
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I love my children unconditionally, which, by the way, I don't think kids love their parents mutaully the same way, anyway, my kidsa re grown now and I see how they treat me entirely different.
They no longer need me to be the parent I was. They no longer want me to be that person. They want their own independance and don't want to see any part of me in them. Thye actually push me away.
They do wnat me to be a babysitter for their kids, their personal bank, counselor, etc.
I refuse to be some of those things and they are mad at me because of it.
Its something they have to work out. I was a very good mother and all of a sudden they forget those memories and only see that today they cannot force me to raise their kids or give money. They forget all the good from then. I would love for them to remember, because I put a lot of work into raising them, but its their ballgame now, not mine.
I stay out of their way and let them work this out on their own.
I agree with the person who said, "do I want a person". I have a huge issue trying to state just why people have kids to begin with. It seems narcisisitic (sp?). Just why have them?
I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.
The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.
or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL
I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.
But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.
It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.
You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.
So having read the last few posts, I feel like I really have to respond. First off, thinking of having kids as having another person is fine, BUT...for an awfully long time, they ARE kids, not necessarily people in the way you are referring to them. Obviously, they are people, but they are CHILDREN. If you disclude thinking about them as babies and then toddlers, then kids, then teenagers, you ARE going to miss out on some wonderful experiences that can only come from having a baby and then watching and experiencing that baby grow. If I had thought of my babies (yes, I still refer to them as that, 13 years later), as just as another person, and not uniquely a baby, I wouldn't have been able to immerse myself in their whole being, and experience being a parent so fully. Case in point: my ex husband thought of children like that - as just another person in the house, and now we have our separate lives, the kids go to stay at his house, and sure they have fun, but there is doubt in their minds (and mine) as to how much he loves them. Because he sees them as just other people - not his kids. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but basically, they know he loves them, BUT....they also know that he will put himself first, that his love for them isn't quite enough. And to a child, that kind of knowledge can be devastating.
To say that everyone who has kids will miss out is also not true though - there ARE people out there who don't have kids, and are perfectly happy. I think the point comes from the fact that as humans we ARE biologically programmed to procreate. The species would never have evolved if this were the case. And if people consider having a children a risk to themselves or their lifestyle, they may be denying themselves the opportunity to experience the biggest joy you can have in life. Yes, I KNOW it's cliched, but it IS true. And I know people with disabled kids, or difficult kids, and they have their moments where they wonder what on earth they were doing/thinking. BUT, they still feel that the benefit outweighed the risk.
If someone knows that they don't want to have kids, and is happy and confident in that choice, I am not going to sit here and say it's a bad thing, BUT, I also will sit here and say definitively that they ARE denying themselves a chance at something wonderful. I guess there is a risk involved - your life will change after all, but, its a worthwhile one in my opinion. And the people that can't have children. Honestly, my heart breaks for them, and I strongly believe that IVF programs and adoption and surrogacy programs, should be available for everyone in that situation to use. I know they're not, and I know it's hard work, before everyone jumps on me for even suggesting it. I'm just saying, I'm a supporter of them, and I believe they should be freely available. Because having children WILL change your life. Having babies, toddlers, kids, teenagers,.....you WILL grow as a person, you will watch them grow as a person, and genetics and upbringing plays more than a small role in forming a person, it plays THE biggest role in shaping a person's personality. How you are raised directly relates to how you will be as an adult. But also who YOU become as an adult, is affected by having children. I would not be the person I am today without having my children.
I don't see it as a risk - I see it as an opportunity to grow as a person, and to help another smaller person, grow alongside me.
it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.
It IS magical. There is no other way to describe it. Yes, hard work, sleepless nights, endless worry, but still.....MAGICAL
And to the women who say that they don't want kids, that's absolutely fine. It honestly is, I don't think that forcing someone to feel something they don't feel is a good thing. Some people aren't parents. It doesn't make them less of a person. I just believe that if there is someone who is denying themselves the chance to have kids, purely because they fear their lives will change, well then, they are denying themselves a chance at something amazing.
I know it takes a strong person/belief to admit you don't want kids, when our society is all about it. But still, in the same way that you believe there are people who have kids just because, or that women make up their own biological clock, I believe there are people who deny themselves the opportunity to have kids out of fear, and that IS a sad thing.
I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"
The guy in dcfaithful's first post sounds like a person I'd never want to meet. He obviously is still self-absorbed and hasn't made the leap he needs to make to be a loving parent.
Sometimes being a parent is hard. Sometimes it's not fun, but if you pull out the strength to do it well, you learn something.
I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"
But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.
You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"
But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.
Lauri, I think when you put yourself aside to care for your elderly family members it's the same idea.
Good for you. Don't ruin your message by putting parents down.
It's fine if you don't want children but for some people I think it's the first time it occurs to them to be selfless.
And, that's a good thing. It's positive for them.
I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"
But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.
That seems like a fairly broad generalisation, don't you think? And when people have kids, SHOULDN'T they focus a lot of their energy on their families? And do you really not know anyone who has kids, who has an equal balance of their own life and their family life? If so, then I kinda feel sorry for you, because there are many many people out there who do manage a very successful balance, and it's a lovely thing to witness, and be part of.
I have two girls 16 & 13 (awesome kids who never get in trouble and do great in school) and here's my only thought on the topic -
I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.
I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.
"Hey, listen asshole, one more fucker throws a fuckin' quarter up here and we're outta here, I'm tellin' ya, FUCKER! What the fuck, you're blowin' it for fuckin' everybody. Hit me with a fuckin' quarter again and, fuck it, I'm outta here. We're all outta here. Fuck you, and if anyone sees someone throw fuckin' change right next to them, you have my permission to beat the fuckin' holy shit outta them."
I have two girls 16 & 13 (awesome kids who never get in trouble and do great in school) and here's my only thought on the topic -
I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.
I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.
You're getting close. Buck up.
My oldest son is finally reaching 18. I can see freedom from this stage from this stage of life looming on the horizon. He's a great kid. (A job well done.)
I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"
But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.
Lauri, I think when you put yourself aside to care for your elderly family members it's the same idea.
Good for you. Don't ruin your message by putting parents down.
It's fine if you don't want children but for some people I think it's the first time it occurs to them to be selfless.
And, that's a good thing. It's positive for them.
Its so much more than being selfless its the circle of life that God gave us. Hopefully people will continue to choose to be loving parents not only for the children to come but for their own souls.
I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.
The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.
or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL
I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.
But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.
It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.
I feel sorry for you both. Not because you don't want to have children - I truely believe its a personal choice and not for everyone, but because it sounds like you have never experienced true, full blown love.
To love and be loved is what defines the human experiece and differentiates us from the rest of the living creatures on earth. You don't need to have children to experience it, but the love I have for my children is the most intense amazing feeling. My love for my partner (their dad) has grown exponentially since we had our children. To think of my life without that makes me sad. And just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that you shouldn't want to.
By the way I totally love my kids but as a whole am not a big fan of other peoples children!!
Our world is overpopulated enough. If a woman chooses not to have kids I say "good on ya!"
I'm an Auntie...but because I'm also a Mommy, I cant be half the Auntie I want to be. It's all in how you choose, and what you choose to put yourself into.
Kids are amazing and exhausting. They're breathtaking and exasperating. They're wonderful and terrible. I have 2 and I couldn't handle anymore. I respect those who decide motherhood isn't for them. There's many mothers who should have thought about it a bit longer before making babies. You know the ones I mean.
Our world is overpopulated enough. If a woman chooses not to have kids I say "good on ya!"
I'm an Auntie...but because I'm also a Mommy, I cant be half the Auntie I want to be. It's all in how you choose, and what you choose to put yourself into.
Kids are amazing and exhausting. They're breathtaking and exasperating. They're wonderful and terrible. I have 2 and I couldn't handle anymore. I respect those who decide motherhood isn't for them. There's many mothers who should have thought about it a bit longer before making babies. You know the ones I mean. [/quote]
Yes surely do! And I have to drive past thier house everyday. ]( if only sterilisation could be enforced!!! )
Having kids is a personal choice, and no-one should be judged for the deciding they don't want to. I never wanted to have kids, then had a big whoopsie and lo-and -behold I had a kid! Serioulsy, the best thing that has ever happened to me. Changed my perspective on life and priorities, and overall made me a better person. Before I was a selfish, immature bitch...now I am just a bitch! Unfortunatley there are some who should never have had kids and it is the kids who will suffer in the long run. At least some people can be objctive about it.
I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.
The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.
or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL
I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.
But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.
It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.
I feel sorry for you both. Not because you don't want to have children - I truely believe its a personal choice and not for everyone, but because it sounds like you have never experienced true, full blown love.
Wow, I guess my parents must have hated me then. I guess when my mom was seriously ill and I helped her through long nights at the hospital, or changed her bed pan or helped her bathe when she was bed ridden.... it must have been purely selfish on my part and not full blown love.
Please do not judge people that you do not know. I do not want or need you to feel sorry for me. Honestly.
I'm happy for you that you are a parent, and love your children whole heartedly... if all parents did that, this world would be a better place.
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I have two girls 16 & 13 (awesome kids who never get in trouble and do great in school) and here's my only thought on the topic -
I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.
I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.
Well, sorry but I don't think that ever happens for a parent. Yes, you become empty nesters and there is more time for yourself and marriage, it's wonderful. But that worry or concern stays. Whatever your adult child goes through your heart goes too. The joys and sorrows and the consequences of their choices. I look at my mother in law now in her mid eighties. She still worries about us in our 50's. What we go through she goes through. But no parent would want it any other way. That's the beauty of it. That's a lifetime of love.
PS.... you are a lucky father, your young teen girls are not causing you much worry, you better rest up just in case
Wow, I guess my parents must have hated me then. I guess when my mom was seriously ill and I helped her through long nights at the hospital, or changed her bed pan or helped her bathe when she was bed ridden.... it must have been purely selfish on my part and not full blown love.
Please do not judge people that you do not know. I do not want or need you to feel sorry for me. Honestly.
I'm happy for you that you are a parent, and love your children whole heartedly... if all parents did that, this world would be a better place.
I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. Aren't we all judging each other when we post things on these boards. My comments weren't directed squarely at you, if you re-read the response to your thread from the other person - my comments were more directed to her post.
I don't at all dismiss the love that anyone shares with their parents and family. I think it's amazing the selfless way you cared for your mother and I'm very sorry that you have lost someone who you obviously love.
The love I have for my mum and dad is quite a different love than the love I feel towards my partner and children. Love is a great and wonderful thing and however you experience it I hope that it brightens your life.
but kids are a lot of work, they cause a lot of stress, and they take up 99% of my free time and my paycheck
that being said, nothing makes me happier or brings more joy to my life than my children-watching and helping them grow up is simply the best experience
And I truly believe that you cant really feel that joy until you have your own kids.
but kids are a lot of work, they cause a lot of stress, and they take up 99% of my free time and my paycheck
that being said, nothing makes me happier or brings more joy to my life than my children-watching and helping them grow up is simply the best experience
And I truly believe that you cant really fell that joy until you have your own kids.
This is 100% the truth. Neither my wife nor I wanted children. I enjoyed being free to do what I wanted, when I wanted...
Now I have 2 girl, 3 year old and a 6 month old. The 6 month old still doesnt sleep through the night. She wakes up at midnight and 5am, cries and will not go back to sleep. You get out of bed thinking "THIS BABY IS GONNA BE THE DEATH OF ME"... but you walk into her room and she is waiting for you, peering through the bars of her crib... and when she sees you she lets out this big smile... immediately, rocking her to sleep is the only thing you WANT to be doing at that moment...
So yes, Kids are a ROYAL pain in the butt, but looking back now.. I didnt realize how empty I was til I had my girls and can now see why people say "you will only understand when you have your OWN children."
my wife is pregnant now and to tell you the truth im really not that thrilled about it. . .it was her idea and basically she just wore me down and now here we are. . .i was always up in the air about having kids (mostly leaning towards not having them), and i told her this early in our relationship, and she was upset about it, so after that whenever it came up i kind of just didnt really say alot about it because i really did love her and truthfully i think i was afraid to be alone. . .i was always safe when it came to sex but she wore me down and also gave me the impression it could be a difficult process, but after a long time of hearing about it i caved and all it took was a couple of times unprotected and it happened. . .the sad thing is i really dont feel any attachment to it and i also feel resentful towards her for convincing me to do something i didnt really want to do, and this has really strained what was a great relationship between us. . . the situation often makes me feel depressed, sad, angry, and alone and i feel like people dont understand my point of view and will think im some kind of scumbag or deadbeat so for the most part i keep it to myself. . .im hopeful somehow things will be ok, but i dont know whats going to happen,. . .thanks for listening to me vent needed to get this off my chest and its easier to do with a bunch of strangers
i have wished for so long, how i wish for you today
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
Comments
I think this is true for all good parents. You can only know this if you do this.
I feel you are totally missing the love part, the only way love would not be a part of the parent child relationship is if the adult was incapable of love, because children love. I believe love to be the only thing of real value in our lives. I am an advocate for love
But you may not be cut out to be a Mom. Your attitude seems like perhaps its not what you want. If you are not understanding the value of giving of yourself and loving a child then you may not be. Although I think fear may be what holds you back. Why mess up a good thing? Because it is a chance to grow and love.
And you know what? it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.
I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.
The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.
or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL
They no longer need me to be the parent I was. They no longer want me to be that person. They want their own independance and don't want to see any part of me in them. Thye actually push me away.
They do wnat me to be a babysitter for their kids, their personal bank, counselor, etc.
I refuse to be some of those things and they are mad at me because of it.
Its something they have to work out. I was a very good mother and all of a sudden they forget those memories and only see that today they cannot force me to raise their kids or give money. They forget all the good from then. I would love for them to remember, because I put a lot of work into raising them, but its their ballgame now, not mine.
I stay out of their way and let them work this out on their own.
I agree with the person who said, "do I want a person". I have a huge issue trying to state just why people have kids to begin with. It seems narcisisitic (sp?). Just why have them?
I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.
But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.
It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.
You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.
To say that everyone who has kids will miss out is also not true though - there ARE people out there who don't have kids, and are perfectly happy. I think the point comes from the fact that as humans we ARE biologically programmed to procreate. The species would never have evolved if this were the case. And if people consider having a children a risk to themselves or their lifestyle, they may be denying themselves the opportunity to experience the biggest joy you can have in life. Yes, I KNOW it's cliched, but it IS true. And I know people with disabled kids, or difficult kids, and they have their moments where they wonder what on earth they were doing/thinking. BUT, they still feel that the benefit outweighed the risk.
If someone knows that they don't want to have kids, and is happy and confident in that choice, I am not going to sit here and say it's a bad thing, BUT, I also will sit here and say definitively that they ARE denying themselves a chance at something wonderful. I guess there is a risk involved - your life will change after all, but, its a worthwhile one in my opinion. And the people that can't have children. Honestly, my heart breaks for them, and I strongly believe that IVF programs and adoption and surrogacy programs, should be available for everyone in that situation to use. I know they're not, and I know it's hard work, before everyone jumps on me for even suggesting it. I'm just saying, I'm a supporter of them, and I believe they should be freely available. Because having children WILL change your life. Having babies, toddlers, kids, teenagers,.....you WILL grow as a person, you will watch them grow as a person, and genetics and upbringing plays more than a small role in forming a person, it plays THE biggest role in shaping a person's personality. How you are raised directly relates to how you will be as an adult. But also who YOU become as an adult, is affected by having children. I would not be the person I am today without having my children.
I don't see it as a risk - I see it as an opportunity to grow as a person, and to help another smaller person, grow alongside me.
It IS magical. There is no other way to describe it. Yes, hard work, sleepless nights, endless worry, but still.....MAGICAL
And to the women who say that they don't want kids, that's absolutely fine. It honestly is, I don't think that forcing someone to feel something they don't feel is a good thing. Some people aren't parents. It doesn't make them less of a person. I just believe that if there is someone who is denying themselves the chance to have kids, purely because they fear their lives will change, well then, they are denying themselves a chance at something amazing.
I know it takes a strong person/belief to admit you don't want kids, when our society is all about it. But still, in the same way that you believe there are people who have kids just because, or that women make up their own biological clock, I believe there are people who deny themselves the opportunity to have kids out of fear, and that IS a sad thing.
The guy in dcfaithful's first post sounds like a person I'd never want to meet. He obviously is still self-absorbed and hasn't made the leap he needs to make to be a loving parent.
Sometimes being a parent is hard. Sometimes it's not fun, but if you pull out the strength to do it well, you learn something.
But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Lauri, I think when you put yourself aside to care for your elderly family members it's the same idea.
Good for you. Don't ruin your message by putting parents down.
It's fine if you don't want children but for some people I think it's the first time it occurs to them to be selfless.
And, that's a good thing. It's positive for them.
That seems like a fairly broad generalisation, don't you think? And when people have kids, SHOULDN'T they focus a lot of their energy on their families? And do you really not know anyone who has kids, who has an equal balance of their own life and their family life? If so, then I kinda feel sorry for you, because there are many many people out there who do manage a very successful balance, and it's a lovely thing to witness, and be part of.
I'm so fucking tired!!!! Kids suck the life out of you.
I feel like I've been running a marathon for 17 years. I love these guys but it will be nice when my wife and I can just worry about ourselves.
You're getting close. Buck up.
My oldest son is finally reaching 18. I can see freedom from this stage from this stage of life looming on the horizon. He's a great kid. (A job well done.)
Just hold on. You're almost there. (!)
I feel sorry for you both. Not because you don't want to have children - I truely believe its a personal choice and not for everyone, but because it sounds like you have never experienced true, full blown love.
To love and be loved is what defines the human experiece and differentiates us from the rest of the living creatures on earth. You don't need to have children to experience it, but the love I have for my children is the most intense amazing feeling. My love for my partner (their dad) has grown exponentially since we had our children. To think of my life without that makes me sad. And just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that you shouldn't want to.
By the way I totally love my kids but as a whole am not a big fan of other peoples children!!
I'm an Auntie...but because I'm also a Mommy, I cant be half the Auntie I want to be. It's all in how you choose, and what you choose to put yourself into.
Kids are amazing and exhausting. They're breathtaking and exasperating. They're wonderful and terrible. I have 2 and I couldn't handle anymore. I respect those who decide motherhood isn't for them. There's many mothers who should have thought about it a bit longer before making babies. You know the ones I mean.
Wow, I guess my parents must have hated me then. I guess when my mom was seriously ill and I helped her through long nights at the hospital, or changed her bed pan or helped her bathe when she was bed ridden.... it must have been purely selfish on my part and not full blown love.
Please do not judge people that you do not know. I do not want or need you to feel sorry for me. Honestly.
I'm happy for you that you are a parent, and love your children whole heartedly... if all parents did that, this world would be a better place.
PS.... you are a lucky father, your young teen girls are not causing you much worry, you better rest up just in case
I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. Aren't we all judging each other when we post things on these boards. My comments weren't directed squarely at you, if you re-read the response to your thread from the other person - my comments were more directed to her post.
I don't at all dismiss the love that anyone shares with their parents and family. I think it's amazing the selfless way you cared for your mother and I'm very sorry that you have lost someone who you obviously love.
The love I have for my mum and dad is quite a different love than the love I feel towards my partner and children. Love is a great and wonderful thing and however you experience it I hope that it brightens your life.
can't argue with a fairie
truly though you have a beautiful heart
Thanks! My job as a fairy is to spread the love
but kids are a lot of work, they cause a lot of stress, and they take up 99% of my free time and my paycheck
that being said, nothing makes me happier or brings more joy to my life than my children-watching and helping them grow up is simply the best experience
And I truly believe that you cant really feel that joy until you have your own kids.
This is 100% the truth. Neither my wife nor I wanted children. I enjoyed being free to do what I wanted, when I wanted...
Now I have 2 girl, 3 year old and a 6 month old. The 6 month old still doesnt sleep through the night. She wakes up at midnight and 5am, cries and will not go back to sleep. You get out of bed thinking "THIS BABY IS GONNA BE THE DEATH OF ME"... but you walk into her room and she is waiting for you, peering through the bars of her crib... and when she sees you she lets out this big smile... immediately, rocking her to sleep is the only thing you WANT to be doing at that moment...
So yes, Kids are a ROYAL pain in the butt, but looking back now.. I didnt realize how empty I was til I had my girls and can now see why people say "you will only understand when you have your OWN children."
Have them if you want them....don't have them if you don't want them.
Pretty simple!!
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I'll take a heavy dose of the latter, please.
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