Are kids so terrible?

haffajappa

catefrances wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

Should just have dogs.
No awkward teen years.

yeah but they slobber on you, poop everywhere and eat your clothes. least kids dont eat your clothes.

not the right dogs.
my dog does none of the above.


well maybe a bitt'a slobber but only if you're eating something tasty!

pandora

Dogs are simply wonderful, no denying that. Just a gift from God, unconditional love and trust.
We can get unconditional love too from each other, most especially from our children. It is wonderful to be able to depend on that.

eyedclaar

catefrances wrote:

Heatherj43 wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I used to work for a domestic violence agency and a woman would call the hotline ALL THE TIME asking how she could give up her kids. I think they were 5 & 7. She would call us because apparently they were beating her up and had locked her in the closet and she needed protection. :roll:

5 & 7 beating her up?? Something is really wrong with that picture!!

mos def.. she shoulda kicked their little butts. or locked them in the closet.

My mother would have and could have kicked my ass until I was about 15. And she pretty much did. Probably why I turned out to be a decent human being.

stardust1976

pandora wrote:

Dogs are simply wonderful, no denying that. Just a gift from God, unconditional love and trust.
We can get unconditional love too from each other, most especially from our children. It is wonderful to be able to depend on that.

Yeah, I'd agree with this one. I love my dogs - and I LOVE my kids. And although at times the almost 13 year old drives me nuts, and reduces me to tears, I know she loves me - I know that when one of them comes to me and says " I love you Mum", it fills my heart absolutely. I couldn't imagine someone getting to the point where they would write something like that. Sure, it's damn hard work - probably THE hardest thing you will EVER do in your life, but it's also the most rewarding thing as well. And kids DO love unconditionally. They also give to you a thousand times, what you give to them. You hug your child, you kiss them goodnight, and you tell them that you love them - they wrap their little arms around you and hug you as if their body could somehow merge with yours and become one, and they fill your entire heart with the love they give off for you.

Sometimes it feels like this is the most difficult thing in the entire world, and you are never sure you're doing the right thing, but when you are having a bad day, and your child comes up to you, and looks at you, and say's "why are you crying Mummy - it's ok, cause I love you to the moon and all around it and back again", you can't help but smile and feel better.

Maybe that's just me, or the maternal instinct in me - I have 4 kids, I'd have 10 if I could. Children are the ultimate gift. The people that have kids that aren't wanted, are doing that child the biggest disadvantage they possibly could.

YOu love your child, and they will love you back. Simple.

pandora

stardust1976 wrote:

pandora wrote:

Dogs are simply wonderful, no denying that. Just a gift from God, unconditional love and trust.
We can get unconditional love too from each other, most especially from our children. It is wonderful to be able to depend on that.

Yeah, I'd agree with this one. I love my dogs - and I LOVE my kids. And although at times the almost 13 year old drives me nuts, and reduces me to tears, I know she loves me - I know that when one of them comes to me and says " I love you Mum", it fills my heart absolutely. I couldn't imagine someone getting to the point where they would write something like that. Sure, it's damn hard work - probably THE hardest thing you will EVER do in your life, but it's also the most rewarding thing as well. And kids DO love unconditionally. They also give to you a thousand times, what you give to them. You hug your child, you kiss them goodnight, and you tell them that you love them - they wrap their little arms around you and hug you as if their body could somehow merge with yours and become one, and they fill your entire heart with the love they give off for you.

Sometimes it feels like this is the most difficult thing in the entire world, and you are never sure you're doing the right thing, but when you are having a bad day, and your child comes up to you, and looks at you, and say's "why are you crying Mummy - it's ok, cause I love you to the moon and all around it and back again", you can't help but smile and feel better.

Maybe that's just me, or the maternal instinct in me - I have 4 kids, I'd have 10 if I could. Children are the ultimate gift. The people that have kids that aren't wanted, are doing that child the biggest disadvantage they possibly could.

YOu love your child, and they will love you back. Simple.

I loved your description of the hugs, so sweet, so true, so wonderful
I'm posting this because my son now 26 comes to me and does the "Dr Evil Gimme a Hug" impression before he gives me a hug, always makes me laugh, fills my heart too Children are priceless http://www.youtube.com/user/DentyneOnFi ... N1b6zY_vOg

Lauri

When people ask me if I like kids, my answer is, "not all of them." It's funny how we group kids together like this, as if they're not really individual people. No one would ever ask, "do you like adults?"

I think this is representative of a major problem when it comes to the decision to have kids. First people see it as something they are doing: they want to experience being a parent, they think they should be a parent, they want a "kid" around the house. I think the more appropriate question is, "do I want this other person- whomever they might be." You see it all the time, people expect their kids to be just like them, or they only expect the positive. They never think that their kid might be unlikeable, ugly, misbehaved, unsuccessful, not-so-bright, etc. They think they have complete control over who their kids are going to be. And while nurture does play a role, the truth is, no one has complete control over another person. Plus, they only see their kid in the short run. I know so many people who say, "I want to have a baby." Ok, if you do, you're only going to have a baby for about 2 years! After that you've got a little kid, a pre-pubescent, a teenager, and an adult. Instead of deciding whether to have kids, I think a lot more people need to ask themselves if they are prepared for another person. To me, this is a natural consideration, and thus I am hesitant to claim I want kids, to me, it's like take a step back from the supposed-to machine and think about it for a minute. I mean think about that woman who sent her kid back to Russia! That kid didn't have to be adopted for that to happen, I bet a lot of parents would like to stick their biological 7 year olds on a one-way trip to Russia. I just really don't think enough people put the right type of thought into the decision to have kids, and then they're surprised when it doesn't go as planned.

pandora

Lauri wrote:

When people ask me if I like kids, my answer is, "not all of them." It's funny how we group kids together like this, as if they're not really individual people. No one would ever ask, "do you like adults?"

I think this is representative of a major problem when it comes to the decision to have kids. First people see it as something they are doing: they want to experience being a parent, they think they should be a parent, they want a "kid" around the house. I think the more appropriate question is, "do I want this other person- whomever they might be." You see it all the time, people expect their kids to be just like them, or they only expect the positive. They never think that their kid might be unlikeable, ugly, misbehaved, unsuccessful, not-so-bright, etc. They think they have complete control over who their kids are going to be. And while nurture does play a role, the truth is, no one has complete control over another person. Plus, they only see their kid in the short run. I know so many people who say, "I want to have a baby." Ok, if you do, you're only going to have a baby for about 2 years! After that you've got a little kid, a pre-pubescent, a teenager, and an adult. Instead of deciding whether to have kids, I think a lot more people need to ask themselves if they are prepared for another person. To me, this is a natural consideration, and thus I am hesitant to claim I want kids, to me, it's like take a step back from the supposed-to machine and think about it for a minute. I mean think about that woman who sent her kid back to Russia! That kid didn't have to be adopted for that to happen, I bet a lot of parents would like to stick their biological 7 year olds on a one-way trip to Russia. I just really don't think enough people put the right type of thought into the decision to have kids, and then they're surprised when it doesn't go as planned.

True in that parents don't always see their children as people but also children don't see parents as people either. Its the nature of the relationship.
Where our family is now, with our children as adults in their twenties, we all see each other pretty clearly. Their revelations about us are as dramatic as ours of them.
I agree people should prepare themselves for parenthood but it is a process that one lives through and that is the ultimate beauty of it.
I think if young people over think or make it a huge lifetime decision it might cause even more fear than what is normally experienced and they may choose not to out of this fear and really miss out.
The sacrifices, the learning to be less self centered, that comes along with being a parent, happens gradually over time and the heart grows and the parent matures.
Yes way to many are having babies with no thought at all when they are way to young and they are not ready to give of themselves. And often this is history repeating itself as their parents did and as their example.
If one is going to think of the lifetime commitment think of the love that is created and the lifetime of joy too. Plenty of hard work but so very worth it.

Thoughts_Arrive

Yes, yes they are... http://www.news.com.au/technology/boy-k ... 5853471820

Lauri

pandora wrote:

True in that parents don't always see their children as people but also children don't see parents as people either. Its the nature of the relationship.

While this is true, an adult is an adult and a child is a child. Actual "children" may not be developed enough to think that way. There's not much of an excuse for an adult parent.

pandora wrote:

I think if young people over think or make it a huge lifetime decision it might cause even more fear than what is normally experienced and they may choose not to out of this fear and really miss out.
The sacrifices, the learning to be less self centered, that comes along with being a parent, happens gradually over time and the heart grows and the parent matures.
Yes way to many are having babies with no thought at all when they are way to young and they are not ready to give of themselves. And often this is history repeating itself as their parents did and as their example.

Well I think that a statement like this is actually part of the problem I was describing. You say that a person who chooses not to have a child, because they are thinking about it as a huge lifetime decision, and/or are afraid, they will necessarily "really miss out." I disagree with this. First, having a kid is a huge lifetime decision! I am in my 30s, and my life is the way it is without kids, and it's not too bad. If I throw a kid into the mix, it's changes everything, for ever. Second, I think this is a reasonable thing to be "afraid" of. Not everyone is meant to have kids. I'm sure that in a lot of ways, I could be a very good parent- I'm educated, have a good family, etc. But that doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for me to think that having a kid might be a risk I might not want to take. Third, is someone is "afraid" to have kids, then that seems like exactly the person who shouldn't have them! Fourth, I believe the "really missing out" thing is a big problem in our culture. There have been a lot of books and articles around lately warning women that if they don't have kids, they will regret it later. I feel this is fearmongering, and it places unnecessary doubt into the minds of people who have made decisions that are right for them. It also perpetuates the idea that all women ultimately want to, and are supposed to, have kids, and if they don't, there is something wrong with them. Plus, it makes people who actually would like to have kids, but can't for whatever reason, feel even worse. Too often it is taken for granted that everyone on the planet has the same life or the same goals in life. People's lives just go the way go, and making people feel that they are "missing out" because their's went one path instead of another just doesn't get anyone anywhere.

pandora wrote:

If one is going to think of the lifetime commitment think of the love that is created and the lifetime of joy too. Plenty of hard work but so very worth it.

I also find this problematic. I don't believe that every parenting experience will necessarily involve love and joy and be "worth it." I honestly don't. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way about their experiences, but we also tend to cling to magical ideas in our culture. Blanket statements like are exactly the ones that make people think that they should have kids because it will all just be love and joy and awesomeness. If you had said, "the flip side of the chance of a lifetime of problems is the chance of a lifetime joy/love" then I can accept that. But to say that for everyone the work is worth it is very naive. People tend to say things like, "oh when you have your own kid, it'll be different." Well you know, that might happen...but it seems like an awfully risky undertaking to put your entire life in the hands of a magic.

I don't really have to make a decision about having kids so I really don't think about it, but in my mind, the things we tend to see as somehow magical really aren't much different than anything else in life. If I never have kids before I die, well that's just something I didn't do. I also will probably die without ever climbing mt everest or playing the french horn. To some people those experiences are magical, and they can't imagine the work that goes into them as being anything but worth it. But no one would say that everyone who considers the risks of climbing mt. everest or doesn't want to put the time into learning the french horn and doesn't do so as a result has "missed out."

chadwick

Cinnamon Girl wrote:

Sometimes kids are terrible...don't you remember being a kid?

I vividly recall spray painting the side of my house...I was 8! Kids have terrible judgment.

That said, this MUST be fake.

you're fantastic.
we painted the side of our house black.
we overheard dad saying he didn't like the color so we fixed it for him.

pandora

Lauri wrote:

pandora wrote:

True in that parents don't always see their children as people but also children don't see parents as people either. Its the nature of the relationship.

While this is true, an adult is an adult and a child is a child. Actual "children" may not be developed enough to think that way. There's not much of an excuse for an adult parent.

pandora wrote:

I think if young people over think or make it a huge lifetime decision it might cause even more fear than what is normally experienced and they may choose not to out of this fear and really miss out.
The sacrifices, the learning to be less self centered, that comes along with being a parent, happens gradually over time and the heart grows and the parent matures.
Yes way to many are having babies with no thought at all when they are way to young and they are not ready to give of themselves. And often this is history repeating itself as their parents did and as their example.

Well I think that a statement like this is actually part of the problem I was describing. You say that a person who chooses not to have a child, because they are thinking about it as a huge lifetime decision, and/or are afraid, they will necessarily "really miss out." I disagree with this. First, having a kid is a huge lifetime decision! I am in my 30s, and my life is the way it is without kids, and it's not too bad. If I throw a kid into the mix, it's changes everything, for ever. Second, I think this is a reasonable thing to be "afraid" of. Not everyone is meant to have kids. I'm sure that in a lot of ways, I could be a very good parent- I'm educated, have a good family, etc. But that doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for me to think that having a kid might be a risk I might not want to take. Third, is someone is "afraid" to have kids, then that seems like exactly the person who shouldn't have them! Fourth, I believe the "really missing out" thing is a big problem in our culture. There have been a lot of books and articles around lately warning women that if they don't have kids, they will regret it later. I feel this is fearmongering, and it places unnecessary doubt into the minds of people who have made decisions that are right for them. It also perpetuates the idea that all women ultimately want to, and are supposed to, have kids, and if they don't, there is something wrong with them. Plus, it makes people who actually would like to have kids, but can't for whatever reason, feel even worse. Too often it is taken for granted that everyone on the planet has the same life or the same goals in life. People's lives just go the way go, and making people feel that they are "missing out" because their's went one path instead of another just doesn't get anyone anywhere.

pandora wrote:

If one is going to think of the lifetime commitment think of the love that is created and the lifetime of joy too. Plenty of hard work but so very worth it.

I also find this problematic. I don't believe that every parenting experience will necessarily involve love and joy and be "worth it." I honestly don't. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way about their experiences, but we also tend to cling to magical ideas in our culture. Blanket statements like are exactly the ones that make people think that they should have kids because it will all just be love and joy and awesomeness. If you had said, "the flip side of the chance of a lifetime of problems is the chance of a lifetime joy/love" then I can accept that. But to say that for everyone the work is worth it is very naive. People tend to say things like, "oh when you have your own kid, it'll be different." Well you know, that might happen...but it seems like an awfully risky undertaking to put your entire life in the hands of a magic.

I don't really have to make a decision about having kids so I really don't think about it, but in my mind, the things we tend to see as somehow magical really aren't much different than anything else in life. If I never have kids before I die, well that's just something I didn't do. I also will probably die without ever climbing mt everest or playing the french horn. To some people those experiences are magical, and they can't imagine the work that goes into them as being anything but worth it. But no one would say that everyone who considers the risks of climbing mt. everest or doesn't want to put the time into learning the french horn and doesn't do so as a result has "missed out."

I just have to say, I was afraid but didn't give it a a lot of thought before having my children and if I do say so myself have been a good mother. And being that Mom has made me who I am today which is by far a better person than if I'd chosen not to.
I think this is true for all good parents. You can only know this if you do this.
I feel you are totally missing the love part, the only way love would not be a part of the parent child relationship is if the adult was incapable of love, because children love. I believe love to be the only thing of real value in our lives. I am an advocate for love
But you may not be cut out to be a Mom. Your attitude seems like perhaps its not what you want. If you are not understanding the value of giving of yourself and loving a child then you may not be. Although I think fear may be what holds you back. Why mess up a good thing? Because it is a chance to grow and love.
And you know what? it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.

mbangel10

pandora wrote:

Lauri wrote:

pandora wrote:

True in that parents don't always see their children as people but also children don't see parents as people either. Its the nature of the relationship.

While this is true, an adult is an adult and a child is a child. Actual "children" may not be developed enough to think that way. There's not much of an excuse for an adult parent.

pandora wrote:

I think if young people over think or make it a huge lifetime decision it might cause even more fear than what is normally experienced and they may choose not to out of this fear and really miss out.
The sacrifices, the learning to be less self centered, that comes along with being a parent, happens gradually over time and the heart grows and the parent matures.
Yes way to many are having babies with no thought at all when they are way to young and they are not ready to give of themselves. And often this is history repeating itself as their parents did and as their example.

Well I think that a statement like this is actually part of the problem I was describing. You say that a person who chooses not to have a child, because they are thinking about it as a huge lifetime decision, and/or are afraid, they will necessarily "really miss out." I disagree with this. First, having a kid is a huge lifetime decision! I am in my 30s, and my life is the way it is without kids, and it's not too bad. If I throw a kid into the mix, it's changes everything, for ever. Second, I think this is a reasonable thing to be "afraid" of. Not everyone is meant to have kids. I'm sure that in a lot of ways, I could be a very good parent- I'm educated, have a good family, etc. But that doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for me to think that having a kid might be a risk I might not want to take. Third, is someone is "afraid" to have kids, then that seems like exactly the person who shouldn't have them! Fourth, I believe the "really missing out" thing is a big problem in our culture. There have been a lot of books and articles around lately warning women that if they don't have kids, they will regret it later. I feel this is fearmongering, and it places unnecessary doubt into the minds of people who have made decisions that are right for them. It also perpetuates the idea that all women ultimately want to, and are supposed to, have kids, and if they don't, there is something wrong with them. Plus, it makes people who actually would like to have kids, but can't for whatever reason, feel even worse. Too often it is taken for granted that everyone on the planet has the same life or the same goals in life. People's lives just go the way go, and making people feel that they are "missing out" because their's went one path instead of another just doesn't get anyone anywhere.

pandora wrote:

If one is going to think of the lifetime commitment think of the love that is created and the lifetime of joy too. Plenty of hard work but so very worth it.

I also find this problematic. I don't believe that every parenting experience will necessarily involve love and joy and be "worth it." I honestly don't. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way about their experiences, but we also tend to cling to magical ideas in our culture. Blanket statements like are exactly the ones that make people think that they should have kids because it will all just be love and joy and awesomeness. If you had said, "the flip side of the chance of a lifetime of problems is the chance of a lifetime joy/love" then I can accept that. But to say that for everyone the work is worth it is very naive. People tend to say things like, "oh when you have your own kid, it'll be different." Well you know, that might happen...but it seems like an awfully risky undertaking to put your entire life in the hands of a magic.

I don't really have to make a decision about having kids so I really don't think about it, but in my mind, the things we tend to see as somehow magical really aren't much different than anything else in life. If I never have kids before I die, well that's just something I didn't do. I also will probably die without ever climbing mt everest or playing the french horn. To some people those experiences are magical, and they can't imagine the work that goes into them as being anything but worth it. But no one would say that everyone who considers the risks of climbing mt. everest or doesn't want to put the time into learning the french horn and doesn't do so as a result has "missed out."

I just have to say, I was afraid but didn't give it a a lot of thought before having my children and if I do say so myself have been a good mother. And being that Mom has made me who I am today which is by far a better person than if I'd chosen not to.
I think this is true for all good parents. You can only know this if you do this.
I feel you are totally missing the love part, the only way love would not be a part of the parent child relationship is if the adult was incapable of love, because children love. I believe love to be the only thing of real value in our lives. I am an advocate for love
But you may not be cut out to be a Mom. Your attitude seems like perhaps its not what you want. If you are not understanding the value of giving of yourself and loving a child then you may not be. Although I think fear may be what holds you back. Why mess up a good thing? Because it is a chance to grow and love.
And you know what? it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.

I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.

The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.

or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL

Heatherj43

I love my children unconditionally, which, by the way, I don't think kids love their parents mutaully the same way, anyway, my kidsa re grown now and I see how they treat me entirely different.
They no longer need me to be the parent I was. They no longer want me to be that person. They want their own independance and don't want to see any part of me in them. Thye actually push me away.
They do wnat me to be a babysitter for their kids, their personal bank, counselor, etc.

I refuse to be some of those things and they are mad at me because of it.
Its something they have to work out. I was a very good mother and all of a sudden they forget those memories and only see that today they cannot force me to raise their kids or give money. They forget all the good from then. I would love for them to remember, because I put a lot of work into raising them, but its their ballgame now, not mine.
I stay out of their way and let them work this out on their own.
I agree with the person who said, "do I want a person". I have a huge issue trying to state just why people have kids to begin with. It seems narcisisitic (sp?). Just why have them?

Lauri

mbangel10 wrote:

I'm 37, female and I do not have children. I'm quite happy about it. I've never, ever had the desire to be a parent. I stated this fact when I was a teenager, and it still holds true today. I had a wonderful childhood, loving parents, and a lot of brothers and sisters. All of my siblings have children, heck even some of their children have children but I'm content with being the cool aunt (great-aunt too), and that's enough for me.

The way you describe it... I must have some huge void in my life that only being a parent can fill, but because I don't have kids I'm unaware of it, or in denial. That's simply not the case for me. I really, truly and honestly just do not want to have children.

or Maybe my biological clock is broken. LOL

I feel the same way. I have never felt a "biological clock." In fact, I have a visceral aversion to pregnancy. I can't COMPLETELY rule out having kids-- I still have a few years left and who knows what might happen-- but I do know that if it doesn't go that way, I won't care. I was thinking about it the other day: I often have the thought of, "man, it would suck to have kids right now," but I have never had the thought, "man, I wish I had kids right now." I heard Dr. Drew on Loveline one night talking about how "all" women have a "biological drive" to have children. What a load of BS. Some probably due, but I know a lot of them who have talked themselves into this "biological" drive. I'm 100% woman and I've never once felt any sort of "urge" to get pregnant or rear children.

But you make the excellent point that you can't prove a negative. If people who don't have kids don't feel the "void" because they don't have kids, then hahaha, I don't see a problem. But again, it's the whole idea that if a woman does have or doesn't want kids, there's something "wrong" with her, even if she's perfectly happy with her life. I don't see how you can miss a person that never existed. I don't see how a person could know that they're life would have somehow been better if they had only had a kid. Who knows, it could very easily have made it worse.

It does suck though, freely admitting that you don't really care about having kids or definitely don't want them is just unacceptable to some people. The decision to have kids is no different than any other decision you make in your life, it's something some people choose and others don't. Also, a lot of people don't ever get a real chance to have kids. I certainly have not met anyone I would want create another human with, and as far as I know, no one has wanted to create another human with me. Plus there's other parts of life that come into play...even if you never consciously make the decision not to have kids, you're supposed to feel bad about it? I don't think so.

norm

arq wrote:

Are you a parent? Is this really possible, are kids so terrible? :shock:

http://i.imgur.com/8aCuc.png

You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.

stardust1976

So having read the last few posts, I feel like I really have to respond. First off, thinking of having kids as having another person is fine, BUT...for an awfully long time, they ARE kids, not necessarily people in the way you are referring to them. Obviously, they are people, but they are CHILDREN. If you disclude thinking about them as babies and then toddlers, then kids, then teenagers, you ARE going to miss out on some wonderful experiences that can only come from having a baby and then watching and experiencing that baby grow. If I had thought of my babies (yes, I still refer to them as that, 13 years later), as just as another person, and not uniquely a baby, I wouldn't have been able to immerse myself in their whole being, and experience being a parent so fully. Case in point: my ex husband thought of children like that - as just another person in the house, and now we have our separate lives, the kids go to stay at his house, and sure they have fun, but there is doubt in their minds (and mine) as to how much he loves them. Because he sees them as just other people - not his kids. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but basically, they know he loves them, BUT....they also know that he will put himself first, that his love for them isn't quite enough. And to a child, that kind of knowledge can be devastating.

To say that everyone who has kids will miss out is also not true though - there ARE people out there who don't have kids, and are perfectly happy. I think the point comes from the fact that as humans we ARE biologically programmed to procreate. The species would never have evolved if this were the case. And if people consider having a children a risk to themselves or their lifestyle, they may be denying themselves the opportunity to experience the biggest joy you can have in life. Yes, I KNOW it's cliched, but it IS true. And I know people with disabled kids, or difficult kids, and they have their moments where they wonder what on earth they were doing/thinking. BUT, they still feel that the benefit outweighed the risk.

If someone knows that they don't want to have kids, and is happy and confident in that choice, I am not going to sit here and say it's a bad thing, BUT, I also will sit here and say definitively that they ARE denying themselves a chance at something wonderful. I guess there is a risk involved - your life will change after all, but, its a worthwhile one in my opinion. And the people that can't have children. Honestly, my heart breaks for them, and I strongly believe that IVF programs and adoption and surrogacy programs, should be available for everyone in that situation to use. I know they're not, and I know it's hard work, before everyone jumps on me for even suggesting it. I'm just saying, I'm a supporter of them, and I believe they should be freely available. Because having children WILL change your life. Having babies, toddlers, kids, teenagers,.....you WILL grow as a person, you will watch them grow as a person, and genetics and upbringing plays more than a small role in forming a person, it plays THE biggest role in shaping a person's personality. How you are raised directly relates to how you will be as an adult. But also who YOU become as an adult, is affected by having children. I would not be the person I am today without having my children.

I don't see it as a risk - I see it as an opportunity to grow as a person, and to help another smaller person, grow alongside me.

stardust1976

pandora wrote:

it is magical. From the miracle of conception and birth to watching your child grow, to spending your life together and to leaving this world and your child behind. It is life and it is beautiful and magical if you allow it to be so.

It IS magical. There is no other way to describe it. Yes, hard work, sleepless nights, endless worry, but still.....MAGICAL

And to the women who say that they don't want kids, that's absolutely fine. It honestly is, I don't think that forcing someone to feel something they don't feel is a good thing. Some people aren't parents. It doesn't make them less of a person. I just believe that if there is someone who is denying themselves the chance to have kids, purely because they fear their lives will change, well then, they are denying themselves a chance at something amazing.

I know it takes a strong person/belief to admit you don't want kids, when our society is all about it. But still, in the same way that you believe there are people who have kids just because, or that women make up their own biological clock, I believe there are people who deny themselves the opportunity to have kids out of fear, and that IS a sad thing.

justam

I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"

The guy in dcfaithful's first post sounds like a person I'd never want to meet. He obviously is still self-absorbed and hasn't made the leap he needs to make to be a loving parent.

Sometimes being a parent is hard. Sometimes it's not fun, but if you pull out the strength to do it well, you learn something.

Lauri

justam wrote:

I think there's a beautiful lesson to learn from being a parent. It might be called "You're not the most important person in the universe anymore! Put yourself aside to care for this small person instead!"

But I think there are a lot of times in life when you have to put yourself aside for someone else, caring for elderly or sick family members or even contributing to your community or society in general and basically anyone who realizes that they are only a small part of a whole does this. I truly, truly, truly believe that being a parent does not make a person unselfish and that not being a parent does not make a person selfish. Both can choose to give as much as they want to others and both can have selfish qualities. It has been shown that when people have kids they focus all or a disproportionate amount of time and resources focused only on their immediate family. To me it does not seem optimal to focus all of one's energy only on people who carry your genetic material. If I ever have kids, I hope I don't fall into that.

arq

norm wrote:

You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.