video of the US killing 2 Reuters employees

g under p

Pepe Silvia wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the video its in all Greek news....i just watch it again .this frase that say"its their fault bring kids in battle" make me wanna smash the fuckin tv :evil:

When stated that way, it does sound like blame and a failure to take responsibility on the part of the pilot, so I agree. I do think that one can ask WHY kids are involved in a rescue mission, though. It is not clear to me from the clip exactly what role the children played. Were they bystanders and thus being rescued, or were they wounded because they were helping with the rescue? If the latter is true, were they there willingly? Do children in Iraq have to grow up too fast against a backdrop of war, with this being a particularly heinous example? I don't know. I guess what I apparently need to make clear is that the kids aren't to blame either way.

while i agree it doesn't make much sense to take kids into that situation i've read that the father was taking them to a music lesson and saw the guy shot and crawling on the ground so they stopped to help.

regardless, even if it was a rescue mission and they knew there was danger from the helicopters the point is these pilots violated the rules of engagement. they are not allowed to fire unless being fired upon. neither of the times they shot were they coming under attack. they can argue they thought the camera was an rpg launcher but obviously it was never shooting at them and after the van showed up the only moves made were to try and put the person still alive in the van. before the van arrived the pilot said "come on, pick up a weapon, i just need you to pick up a weapon..." and when the van arrived the pilot told whoever was on the other end of the radio it was there to 'probably pick up the weapons.' *which didn't exist*. the pilot WANTED to open fire and was looking for any reason to get the authority.

so, no matter what circumstances happened to bring those 2 kids there doesn't take away the guilt from the pilots. it wasn't a battle zone, it was the US opening fire on a journalist and a dozen or so civilians.

and that's why i don't understand how we can say there's no need to do anything about it. what good is it to have rules if no one is held accountable to them?

.....And you better believe this is NOT the only time this kind of US engagement has happened. It's happened in the past, it's happening NOW and it WILL happen again in the future. Now we can see why the body count of civilian deaths and casualties are SO astronomically high in Iraq. Especially when we've occupied a country for almost 8 years now.

Peace

dimitrispearljam

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the video its in all Greek news....i just watch it again .this frase that say"its their fault bring kids in battle" make me wanna smash the fuckin tv :evil:

When stated that way, it does sound like blame and a failure to take responsibility on the part of the pilot, so I agree. I do think that one can ask WHY kids are involved in a rescue mission, though. It is not clear to me from the clip exactly what role the children played. Were they bystanders and thus being rescued, or were they wounded because they were helping with the rescue? If the latter is true, were they there willingly? Do children in Iraq have to grow up too fast against a backdrop of war, with this being a particularly heinous example? I don't know. I guess what I apparently need to make clear is that the kids aren't to blame either way.

the only thing i know is that all this looks like a video game and the one who shoots dont fuckin understand that people dying...and he dont give a shit about life..the real problem isnt he.,.is the whole philoshophy of USA troops(generally all the big countries have the power)that can shoot anyone who walks in a foreign country..
and the worst of all that is he will feel the pain back..couse he friend maybe die in the next battle.or some day he will open his tv and see in breaknews the next 9/11..be sure,,if u or me.watching this video and was our little brother the ones was dying in this street in Iraq.the first thing would pass our mind would be one word." Revenge"

Wobbie

Starfall wrote:

Here's where the importance of a free and fearless press comes in. CBS exposed My Lai because we used to have such a thing as a free and fearless press. Now we have corporate media conglomerates whose only concern is the bottom line. Thus, they'd rather cozy up to the powers that be lest they lose their access privileges.

a very astute observation. I'm old enough to remember that kind of reporting as opposed to the "news" we get today.

rebornFixer

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the only thing i know is that all this looks like a video game and the one who shoots dont fuckin understand that people dying...and he dont give a shit about life..the real problem isnt he.,.is the whole philoshophy of USA troops(generally all the big countries have the power)that can shoot anyone who walks in a foreign country..
and the worst of all that is he will feel the pain back..couse he friend maybe die in the next battle.or some day he will open his tv and see in breaknews the next 9/11..be sure,,if u or me.watching this video and was our little brother the ones was dying in this street in Iraq.the first thing would pass our mind would be one word." Revenge"

I know what you're saying ... This stuff becomes an endless cycle of revenge, and thousands of people die. Is the solution to avoid wars like Iraq? Absolutely. There was no point to this war in the first place, and there's still no point. I have worked with soldiers, meaning that its difficult for me to paint them all with the same brush. Not everyone is like this pilot, and some of the people who are became that way as a result of chronic exposure to violence and dangerous situations. There are psychopaths in the military, but they are a minority. Not every US or Canadian soldier is trucking around without a care and shooting civilians at will, although obviously this shit does happen. For the record, this pilot should be tried and he should go to prison if found guilty. However, it is very easy to take a graphic incident like this and assume that this stuff happens all the time, whenever troops are out on patrol, which is an incorrect assumption. This stuff happens more than it should, and sometimes it happens because sick situations create sick people. I am less inclined to blame US troops in general (although maybe some individuals are blameworthy) and a lot more inclined to blame the people who make the decisions to launch horseshit wars.

dimitrispearljam

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the only thing i know is that all this looks like a video game and the one who shoots dont fuckin understand that people dying...and he dont give a shit about life..the real problem isnt he.,.is the whole philoshophy of USA troops(generally all the big countries have the power)that can shoot anyone who walks in a foreign country..
and the worst of all that is he will feel the pain back..couse he friend maybe die in the next battle.or some day he will open his tv and see in breaknews the next 9/11..be sure,,if u or me.watching this video and was our little brother the ones was dying in this street in Iraq.the first thing would pass our mind would be one word." Revenge"

I know what you're saying ... This stuff becomes an endless cycle of revenge, and thousands of people die. Is the solution to avoid wars like Iraq? Absolutely. There was no point to this war in the first place, and there's still no point. I have worked with soldiers, meaning that its difficult for me to paint them all with the same brush. Not everyone is like this pilot, and some of the people who are became that way as a result of chronic exposure to violence and dangerous situations. There are psychopaths in the military, but they are a minority. Not every US or Canadian soldier is trucking around without a care and shooting civilians at will, although obviously this shit does happen. For the record, this pilot should be tried and he should go to prison if found guilty. However, it is very easy to take a graphic incident like this and assume that this stuff happens all the time, whenever troops are out on patrol, which is an incorrect assumption. This stuff happens more than it should, and sometimes it happens because sick situations create sick people. I am less inclined to blame US troops in general (although maybe some individuals are blameworthy) and a lot more inclined to blame the people who make the decisions to launch horseshit wars.

the ones they deside this "war" is the problem..and they pay people for do it.troops are taking orders.i m in Greek airforce and i know how it is.we are allies and we have alot of common works when the usa carriers pass from my country.i understand someone to go to a war to defent his country..in this video i see some mercenaries that enjoy killing..and all this in the name of we bring "peace" in iraq or the "war" against terrorism.and be sure out of usa all the planet see it in this way

gimmesometruth27

aerial wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

bear?

yes bear....what do ya know, a sign with proper use of the word bear....

OffHeGoes29

Heres a question:

Why doest a bombing of an all girls school in A-stan or a mosque in Iraq never gets posted here?

This isn't a one way street

Byrnzie

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the video its in all Greek news....i just watch it again .this frase that say"its their fault bring kids in battle" make me wanna smash the fuckin tv :evil:

When stated that way, it does sound like blame and a failure to take responsibility on the part of the pilot, so I agree. I do think that one can ask WHY kids are involved in a rescue mission, though. It is not clear to me from the clip exactly what role the children played. Were they bystanders and thus being rescued, or were they wounded because they were helping with the rescue? If the latter is true, were they there willingly? Do children in Iraq have to grow up too fast against a backdrop of war, with this being a particularly heinous example? I don't know. I guess what I apparently need to make clear is that the kids aren't to blame either way.

They just happened to be driving past and saw someone in the road who was in obvious need of help - he'd just been shot to bits. The kids just happened to be in the van. They wouldn't have been sitting somewhere and decided:
'I know, let's go and drive into the middle of a massacre and rescue someone!'
'Yeah, sure! Shall we bring the kids along?'
'Yeah, why not, they've both just finished their homework anyway'.

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

the video its in all Greek news....i just watch it again .this frase that say"its their fault bring kids in battle" make me wanna smash the fuckin tv :evil:

When stated that way, it does sound like blame and a failure to take responsibility on the part of the pilot, so I agree. I do think that one can ask WHY kids are involved in a rescue mission, though. It is not clear to me from the clip exactly what role the children played. Were they bystanders and thus being rescued, or were they wounded because they were helping with the rescue? If the latter is true, were they there willingly? Do children in Iraq have to grow up too fast against a backdrop of war, with this being a particularly heinous example? I don't know. I guess what I apparently need to make clear is that the kids aren't to blame either way.

They just happened to be driving past and saw someone in the road who was in obvious need of help - he'd just been shot to bits. The kids just happened to be in the van. They wouldn't have been sitting somewhere and decided:
'I know, let's go and drive into the middle of a massacre and rescue someone!'
'Yeah, sure! Shall we bring the kids along?'
'Yeah, why not, they've both just finished their homework anyway'.

Fair enough. And that was kinda funny, even though I have been sternly chided for off-color jokes in the past.

gimmesometruth27

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Heres a question:

Why doest a bombing of an all girls school in A-stan or a mosque in Iraq never gets posted here?

This isn't a one way street

depends on who does the bombing....if the "turrists" do it it goes largely unnoticed in the us media because that shit happens all the time, thus most of us never hear about it to post on here....if the us forces do it, its big news because bombing a mosque or an all girls school is a major fuck up by our military and deserves to be scrutinized here...

OffHeGoes29

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Heres a question:

Why doest a bombing of an all girls school in A-stan or a mosque in Iraq never gets posted here?

This isn't a one way street

depends on who does the bombing....if the "turrists" do it it goes largely unnoticed in the us media because that shit happens all the time, thus most of us never hear about it to post on here....if the us forces do it, its big news because bombing a mosque or an all girls school is a major fuck up by our military and deserves to be scrutinized here...

That makes no sense what so ever

gimmesometruth27

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Heres a question:

Why doest a bombing of an all girls school in A-stan or a mosque in Iraq never gets posted here?

This isn't a one way street

depends on who does the bombing....if the "turrists" do it it goes largely unnoticed in the us media because that shit happens all the time, thus most of us never hear about it to post on here....if the us forces do it, its big news because bombing a mosque or an all girls school is a major fuck up by our military and deserves to be scrutinized here...

That makes no sense what so ever

il bet you are the only one who doesn't get it. i made my point pretty clearly...

OffHeGoes29

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

il bet you are the only one who doesn't get it. i made my point pretty clearly...

I don't get how people can ignore the fact that it goes both ways. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it.

gimmesometruth27

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

il bet you are the only one who doesn't get it. i made my point pretty clearly...

I don't get how people can ignore the fact that it goes both ways. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it.

wrong is wrong. you asked an unclear question so i answered it two ways. it depends on who did it, and depending on who did it will get more discussion not just on here but in the us media.

Commy

rebornFixer wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

and then the pilot's of the helicopters say how it's their own fault for bringing the kids...which may be right to a point but how does that justify what the pilots did??

wow, i'm so much happier knowing my tax money is paying for this and not health care! america, fuck yeah!!

It doesn't justify it, you're right. Obviously the Apache pilot is at fault here, but the same question did cross my mind. Even that first statement you typed out made me wonder: "Two young children involved in the rescue ...". Who brings their kids into a place where bullets and shells are flying around? "Hey, we need some folks to go out on a dangerous rescue mission. I volunteer ... My kids!" I don't get this kind of stuff. I also asked why old ladies engage in hand-to-hand combat with fully armed IDF troopers, and everyone thought I was a terrible person for wondering about that too.

No. The question is, who brings apache gunship lead by these assholes to a place where people are trying to go about their lives?



"weapon in his hand" was it as fucking obvious to anyone else that he was holding a camera and not an rpg? this is the kind of shit war brings.


kill the innocent, when people try to save them, kill them too.





what is it good for?

Smellyman

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

il bet you are the only one who doesn't get it. i made my point pretty clearly...

I don't get how people can ignore the fact that it goes both ways. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it.

wrong is wrong. you asked an unclear question so i answered it two ways. it depends on who did it, and depending on who did it will get more discussion not just on here but in the us media.

We have no control over the turrerists, but the US is representing me and I wish we would hold ourselves to a higher degree.

brandon10

I can gaurantee you one thing. If some fucking assholes came from across the earth and were doing that in my country(for 8 years!!!!), I sure as hell would become a terrorist.

dimitrispearljam

brandon10 wrote:

I can gaurantee you one thing. If some fucking assholes came from across the earth and were doing that in my country(for 8 years!!!!), I sure as hell would become a terrorist.

can u imagine to loose your family as well???..O.M.G.....there will not pass a day of not thinking how u will take your revenge

polaris_x

brandon10 wrote:

I can gaurantee you one thing. If some fucking assholes came from across the earth and were doing that in my country(for 8 years!!!!), I sure as hell would become a terrorist.

all for what?

** no involvement in 9/11
** no wmd
** sovereign country

military based imperialism ... massive profits for big oil, haliburton and weapons companies ... all at the expense of the lives and humanity of iraqis ... this is where americans need to shed their nationalistic pride and look themselves in the mirror ...

rebornFixer

brandon10 wrote:

I can gaurantee you one thing. If some fucking assholes came from across the earth and were doing that in my country(for 8 years!!!!), I sure as hell would become a terrorist.

Well, for me personally, I cannot imagine choosing to murder civilians (or my own people), regardless of what happened. The mindset required to fly a plane into a building and kill thousands eludes me, as does that required to blow yourself up in a crowded market full of Iraqis. I think the idea of fighting back against an occupation is not as clear cut, which is maybe what you are trying to say. Take the Iraq example. There are people there who really just want the Americans gone ... And then there are militants from other nations murdering Iraqis in the name of religious ideology. This latter group are the terrorists, IMHO. The Iraqis themselves have fought against this latter group.