Pelosi and Marx on Freedom

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Comments

  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Liberalism is rooted from Marxism?? Do you make this stuff up or are you writing a political theory book entitled "Things that aren't true about political theory".

    The Age of Enlightenment was roughly from the mid-1600's til the early 1800's. This is what liberalism as a political theory is based upon. Marx lived from 1818-1883..and the Communist Manifesto was published in 1848. Which do you think came first? haha
    prfctlefts wrote:
    your the embarasment dude. If you can't see that liberalism is rooted from Marxism and if Obamas past asociations with radical leftist doesn't raise a red flag either you support his radical agenda or you just don't care.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Who can deny that if you have quality health insurance through your job, and that securing the same quality health insurance through another line of work is a risky maneuver, you are, in fact, job-locked? I have felt job-locked many times, and even now I know that my employment choices are limited to companies that offer the same health plan.

    Wouldn't it be great for people, and for the economy as a whole, if we could decide to work 3 or 4 part-time jobs if we wanted to? It would diversify the economy, and put people to work only where there is need.

    The article the OP posted is very clever and manipulative by deriding universal health care as something designed to benefit artists and writers, rather than the "kind, decent, hardworking man". The truth is it frees people of all trades. This article also employs the bogus, meaningless term "Obamacare", which draws upon the ire of the angry white man, just as "Hillarycare" preyed upon the emotions of anti-feminists in the 1990's. At the very least it associates health care with a divisive personality, which is completely unfair, as the legislation signed last week was the result of the hard work of many many individuals, the majority of who are not in government, but are tax-paying citizens like you and me. Who cares if Karl Marx said it, or if your neighbor said it? Again, Pelosi and Marx are divisive figures, and that's why the writer of the article wants to associate the freedom of the worker (of the individual, really) with names like that.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    kenny olav wrote:
    Who can deny that if you have quality health insurance through your job, and that securing the same quality health insurance through another line of work is a risky maneuver, you are, in fact, job-locked? I have felt job-locked many times, and even now I know that my employment choices are limited to companies that offer the same health plan.

    Wouldn't it be great for people, and for the economy as a whole, if we could decide to work 3 or 4 part-time jobs if we wanted to? It would diversify the economy, and put people to work only where there is need.

    The article the OP posted is very clever and manipulative by deriding universal health care as something designed to benefit artists and writers, rather than the "kind, decent, hardworking man". The truth is it frees people of all trades. This article also employs the bogus, meaningless term "Obamacare", which draws upon the ire of the angry white man, just as "Hillarycare" preyed upon the emotions of anti-feminists in the 1990's. At the very least it associates health care with a divisive personality, which is completely unfair, as the legislation signed last week was the result of the hard work of many many individuals, the majority of who are not in government, but are tax-paying citizens like you and me. Who cares if Karl Marx said it, or if your neighbor said it? Again, Pelosi and Marx are divisive figures, and that's why the writer of the article wants to associate the freedom of the worker (of the individual, really) with names like that.



    I have worked 3 jobs and I really do not see why anyone would to...unless it was absolutely necessary....
    Why angry white man?

    Are you saying you are ok with the government taking over every aspect of our private life....because that is were we are headed...
    Saul Alinsky rule. Obama’s buddy....That rule says you must fan the flames of dissent, lie through your teeth, try to vilify your opposition, and never, ever expose the truth that you are a Commie, anti-American, Socialist, corrupt crook.
    Sound familiar?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    aerial wrote:
    I have worked 3 jobs and I really do not see why anyone would to...unless it was absolutely necessary....
    Why angry white man?

    Are you saying you are ok with the government taking over every aspect of our private life....because that is were we are headed...
    Saul Alinsky rule. Obama’s buddy....That rule says you must fan the flames of dissent, lie through your teeth, try to vilify your opposition, and never, ever expose the truth that you are a Commie, anti-American, Socialist, corrupt crook.
    Sound familiar?
    as usual you are so full of s@it....alinsky did not say that just like that, and your paraphrasing of him sounds like something that was most likely on glenn beck or fox news...to me it sounds like the teabaggers and conservatives are taking pages out of alinsky's book and using those same ideas...its a long read an you probably won't read it anyway, but here are few excerpts...

    http://www.infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

    1) Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have

    2) Never go outside the experience of your people

    3) Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy

    4) Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules

    5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon

    6) A good tactic is one that your people enjoy

    7) A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag

    8) Keep the pressure on

    9) The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself

    10) The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition

    11) If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside

    12) The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative

    13) Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it

    They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default. (Alinsky 1972: xx).

    As an organizer I start from where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be - it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be. That means working in the system. (Alinsky 1972: xix).


    "The judgement of the ethics of means is dependent upon the political position of those sitting in judgement."

    "Any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition as being unethical."

    hmmm any of this sound familiar to you aerial????
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    aerial wrote:
    Saul Alinsky rule. Obama’s buddy....That rule says you must fan the flames of dissent, lie through your teeth, try to vilify your opposition, and never, ever expose the truth that you are a Commie, anti-American, Socialist, corrupt crook.
    Sound familiar?

    Besided swapping out those bold political buzzwords with buzzwords during their times, those tactics have been used by both political parties every time that they have had a majority in this country during my lifetime.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Aerial or Pc.. Have you read Marx?
    Yes, Why?
    ...
    Since you have read Marx... what specific aspects of Marxist Doctrine do you see being applied to the United States by President Obama? Because I need that explained to me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    I have worked 3 jobs and I really do not see why anyone would to...unless it was absolutely necessary....
    Why angry white man?

    Are you saying you are ok with the government taking over every aspect of our private life....because that is were we are headed...
    Saul Alinsky rule. Obama’s buddy....That rule says you must fan the flames of dissent, lie through your teeth, try to vilify your opposition, and never, ever expose the truth that you are a Commie, anti-American, Socialist, corrupt crook.
    Sound familiar?
    as usual you are so full of s@it....alinsky did not say that just like that, and your paraphrasing of him sounds like something that was most likely on glenn beck or fox news...to me it sounds like the teabaggers and conservatives are taking pages out of alinsky's book and using those same ideas...its a long read an you probably won't read it anyway, but here are few excerpts...

    http://www.infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

    1) Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have

    2) Never go outside the experience of your people

    3) Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy

    4) Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules

    5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon

    6) A good tactic is one that your people enjoy

    7) A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag

    8) Keep the pressure on

    9) The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself

    10) The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition

    11) If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside

    12) The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative

    13) Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it

    They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default. (Alinsky 1972: xx).

    As an organizer I start from where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be - it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be. That means working in the system. (Alinsky 1972: xix).


    "The judgement of the ethics of means is dependent upon the political position of those sitting in judgement."

    "Any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition as being unethical."

    hmmm any of this sound familiar to you aerial????


    pfffft read between the lines, maaaaaaaaan!
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Starfall
    Starfall Posts: 548
    prfctlefts wrote:
    You really are not as smart as I thought you were If that's all you think G. Soros is. and what about Sal Alinsky ?I bet he's probably one of your heros. I bet you even have his book Rules For Radicals. Why don't you go and google all these people and you will see exactly who they are ? Then again I wouldn't want you to waste your time with facts.

    Why don't you prove to me that George Soros is a socialist or radical or whatever? What exactly has he done that merits those labels? Or for that matter, Nancy Pelosi? You like to make accusations, I'm simply asking you to back up your claims. The burden of proof is on you.
    But lets get back to the issue at hand.
    So you don't think the Gov ownes any car companies ? Ok Let's see
    http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... 951044.htm

    What about banks ?
    http://www.gmacfs.com/us/en/about/who/index.html

    LMAO - did you even BOTHER to read either of those articles? Neither one of them said that the government actually OWNS the banks or the car companies. You want nationalization, go look at Venezuela.
    Seriously dude, it's not enough to just link to articles you just Googled with keywords you think support your case... you need have to have the articles actually support your case. :mrgreen:
    What about the Gov take over of the student loans ?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/2 ... 07576.html

    Let's see, the government gives taxpayer money to private lenders to lend to students, and the new law would stop that subsidy. Last I checked, taxpayer money is the purvey of the government.
    So you're telling me that you oppose the government taking over something that belongs to.... the government? :lol:
    Gov Take over of the Ins companies ?
    If I need to give you a link to that than that says it all.

    Hey, be my guest. So far, all I've been doing was giving you enough rope... you've been doing the rest for me. :mrgreen:
    "It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Aerial or Pc.. Have you read Marx?
    Yes, Why?
    ...
    Since you have read Marx... what specific aspects of Marxist Doctrine do you see being applied to the United States by President Obama? Because I need that explained to me.
    I would like this explained too.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    one would be the redistribution of wealth......


    Now I would like to To Hear an explanation from you on the left on how a person can associate themselves with these type of thinkers and organizations all his life starting when he was a boy... till now....yet not have the same ideology as they do?
    organizations that Obama surrounded himself with before he became president.
    1. prfctlefts said....
    William Ayers,Marilyn Katz, Frank Marshall Davis, Alice Palmer, George Soros, Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, Carl Davidson, Robert Blackwell, Tony Rezko, Dorothy Tillman, Robert Malley, Cornel West, Howard Dean, Donna Brazille, Nancy Pelosi, MoveOn.org, Center for American Progress, Open Society Institute, Arab American Action Network, The Democracy Alliance, The New Party, the Democratic Socialist Party, The Working Families Party, Socialist Scholars Conference, Campaign for America’s Future, The Progressive Caucus, Public Allies, ACORN, Citizens Services, Inc., Ken Rolling, The Woods Fund, The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, The Joyce Foundation, Gamaliel Foundation, Students For A Democratic Society, Saul Alinsky, Richard Andrew Cloward, Frances Fox Piven, Zbigniew Brzenzinski, Penny Pritzker, The Superior Bank, The Broadway Bank, Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, Reverend Wright, Rather Pfleuger, Raila Odinga of Kenya,
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    i dunno, maybe his "radical centrist" philosophy developed at a later age and overrode his commy socialist kenyan muslim youth and upbringing?

    kinda like the id, ego and superego???
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    aerial wrote:
    Are you saying you are ok with the government taking over every aspect of our private life....because that is were we are headed...
    Saul Alinsky rule. Obama’s buddy....That rule says you must fan the flames of dissent, lie through your teeth, try to vilify your opposition, and never, ever expose the truth that you are a Commie, anti-American, Socialist, corrupt crook.
    Sound familiar?

    You really need to either change the channel or get off the couch and get out more.
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    aerial wrote:
    one would be the redistribution of wealth......


    Now I would like to To Hear an explanation from you on the left on how a person can associate themselves with these type of thinkers and organizations all his life starting when he was a boy... till now....yet not have the same ideology as they do?

    I think one should associate themselves with all kinds of thinkers, to be exposed to many different types of ideas. My highschool was full of everything from Muslims, Buddhists, Evangelical Christians, Conservatives, Liberals, etc.. etc.. I spoke and discussed many issues with them, and don't share their beliefs.

    At my University, I don't share the ideology of them, but I do learn from them.

    My grandparents are religious, I see them probably once a week, yet I don't have the same ideology.

    Edit: Don't Churches also advocate charity? Is this not a redistribution of wealth? By extension, maybe Obama is just pushing a Christian ideology.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    keeponrockin wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    one would be the redistribution of wealth......


    Now I would like to Hear an explanation from you on the left on how a person can associate themselves with these type of thinkers and organizations all his life starting when he was a boy... till now....yet not have the same ideology as they do?

    I think one should associate themselves with all kinds of thinkers, to be exposed to many different types of ideas. My highschool was full of everything from Muslims, Buddhists, Evangelical Christians, Conservatives, Liberals, etc.. etc.. I spoke and discussed many issues with them, and don't share their beliefs.

    At my University, I don't share the ideology of them, but I do learn from them.

    My grandparents are religious, I see them probably once a week, yet I don't have the same ideology.

    Edit: Don't Churches also advocate charity? Is this not a redistribution of wealth? By extension, maybe Obama is just pushing a Christian ideology.
    Churches do advocate charity....if someone wants to give and help someone in need it is there choice....
    socialism...when the government takes a persons money and supposedly gives it to others in need....
    with the rampant amount of corruption in the White House ( all parties included) how do we know were the hell it really goes.
    The organizations he supported along with the majority of his associates all push the socialist ideology. I don’t know why you all try to deny this, when he does not try to hide it....it’s all out in the open....what is to deny?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    We don't. Nor do we know where its going with the military, or the post office. If lives are being saved, its worth it.

    I guess it's my Canadian perspective (though I'm an American citizen as well). I'm proud to live in a country where my next door neighbour won't go bankrupt because he or his daughter get sick. Do I pay too much taxes on my vodka? Absolutely.

    And you didn't respond to my other point about how one can associate with someone but not share beliefs.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Starfall
    Starfall Posts: 548
    aerial wrote:
    one would be the redistribution of wealth......


    Now I would like to To Hear an explanation from you on the left on how a person can associate themselves with these type of thinkers and organizations all his life starting when he was a boy... till now....yet not have the same ideology as they do?
    organizations that Obama surrounded himself with before he became president.
    1. prfctlefts said....
    William Ayers,Marilyn Katz, Frank Marshall Davis, Alice Palmer, George Soros, Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, Carl Davidson, Robert Blackwell, Tony Rezko, Dorothy Tillman, Robert Malley, Cornel West, Howard Dean, Donna Brazille, Nancy Pelosi, MoveOn.org, Center for American Progress, Open Society Institute, Arab American Action Network, The Democracy Alliance, The New Party, the Democratic Socialist Party, The Working Families Party, Socialist Scholars Conference, Campaign for America’s Future, The Progressive Caucus, Public Allies, ACORN, Citizens Services, Inc., Ken Rolling, The Woods Fund, The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, The Joyce Foundation, Gamaliel Foundation, Students For A Democratic Society, Saul Alinsky, Richard Andrew Cloward, Frances Fox Piven, Zbigniew Brzenzinski, Penny Pritzker, The Superior Bank, The Broadway Bank, Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, Reverend Wright, Rather Pfleuger, Raila Odinga of Kenya,

    Ah yes, the old "Guilt By Association" canard. Of course, nobody on the right pointed out how George W. Bush surrounded himself with convicted felons.

    And I'm still awaiting why you all think George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Cornell West, etc are such horrible, socialist totalitarian radicals hell bent on destroying America. Come on. Indulge me.
    "It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Byrnzie wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Are you saying you are ok with the government taking over every aspect of our private life....because that is were we are headed...
    Saul Alinsky rule. Obama’s buddy....That rule says you must fan the flames of dissent, lie through your teeth, try to vilify your opposition, and never, ever expose the truth that you are a Commie, anti-American, Socialist, corrupt crook.
    Sound familiar?

    You really need to either change the channel or get off the couch and get out more.

    This from someone that has no idea what Freedom is....hopefully you will one day.....that is what we are working to keep.....but I understand ...how could I expect you to understand when you don’t even know how great Freedom is....
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    aerial wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You really need to either change the channel or get off the couch and get out more.

    This from someone that has no idea what Freedom is....hopefully you will one day.....that is what we are working to keep.....but I understand ...how could I expect you to understand when you don’t even know how great Freedom is....

    What? :?

    Is your real name George W. Bush?
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Starfall wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    one would be the redistribution of wealth......


    Now I would like to To Hear an explanation from you on the left on how a person can associate themselves with these type of thinkers and organizations all his life starting when he was a boy... till now....yet not have the same ideology as they do?
    organizations that Obama surrounded himself with before he became president.
    1. prfctlefts said....
    William Ayers,Marilyn Katz, Frank Marshall Davis, Alice Palmer, George Soros, Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, Carl Davidson, Robert Blackwell, Tony Rezko, Dorothy Tillman, Robert Malley, Cornel West, Howard Dean, Donna Brazille, Nancy Pelosi, MoveOn.org, Center for American Progress, Open Society Institute, Arab American Action Network, The Democracy Alliance, The New Party, the Democratic Socialist Party, The Working Families Party, Socialist Scholars Conference, Campaign for America’s Future, The Progressive Caucus, Public Allies, ACORN, Citizens Services, Inc., Ken Rolling, The Woods Fund, The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, The Joyce Foundation, Gamaliel Foundation, Students For A Democratic Society, Saul Alinsky, Richard Andrew Cloward, Frances Fox Piven, Zbigniew Brzenzinski, Penny Pritzker, The Superior Bank, The Broadway Bank, Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, Reverend Wright, Rather Pfleuger, Raila Odinga of Kenya,

    Ah yes, the old "Guilt By Association" canard. Of course, nobody on the right pointed out how George W. Bush surrounded himself with convicted felons.

    And I'm still awaiting why you all think George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Cornell West, etc are such horrible, socialist totalitarian radicals hell bent on destroying America. Come on. Indulge me.
    Really? You want to go back as far as 1992? with your link

    Google it ....no time to repeat my self.........sorry..boring...
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Byrnzie wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You really need to either change the channel or get off the couch and get out more.

    This from someone that has no idea what Freedom is....hopefully you will one day.....that is what we are working to keep.....but I understand ...how could I expect you to understand when you don’t even know how great Freedom is....

    What? :?

    Is your real name George W. Bush?

    :lol::lol:

    maybe aerial thinks youre chinese steve. you know what communist freedom trouncing bastards those guys are. ;)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say

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