I want to do what Chris Mccandless did...sort of

Cliffy6745

eyedclaar wrote:

What does anyone need to survive? Break it down to the basics. He had shelter, although a bus is kind of cheating, he had enough food to get started and give him time to find more, and he had water. That's all you need, folks. It's the isolation that most people can't handle, but yes, most of you could survive in that same spot with the right gear and food. You wouldn't enjoy it, but you could survive.

And from all this it seems he didn't do all that well. He lived 113 days out there with shelter, rice, squirrel and birds and died from starvation less than 4 months later.

Cliffy6745

eyedclaar wrote:

Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.

And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.

Jearlpam0925

Hey, Eyed - I'll say this much....

My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)

Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.

eyedclaar

Cliffy6745 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.

And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.

That is the life costing mistake that I'm talking about and yes, fairly ignorant. People make mistakes, but funny how people really want to condemn Chris for his. Guess what, he's the one who had to starve to death, not you. I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska.

eyedclaar

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Hey, Eyed - I'll say this much....

My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)

Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.

Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.

Cliffy6745

eyedclaar wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Again, you keep saying he was too ignorant to survive, but he did just that, and finally tried to leave the wilderness on his own terms, only to find his path blocked. It was after that things went bad.

And again, he couldn't get out because of a lack of basic knowledge about Alaskan seasons. I find that pretty ignorant.

That is the life costing mistake that I'm talking about and yes, fairly ignorant. People make mistakes, but funny how people really want to condemn Chris for his. Guess what, he's the one who had to starve to death, not you. I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska.

I hear you, people make mistakes and he made a few that he shouldn't have if he had prepared correctly and he and his family are the ones that paid for it. I don't feel any smarter than Chris with regards to this and while I enjoy the outdoors and camping, I wouldn't survive 1 week up there.

The only way I am fucking up my life is probably spending too much time arguing about Chris McCandless on the Pearl Jam message board and not getting my work done right now. On that note...

Jearlpam0925

eyedclaar wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Hey, Eyed - I'll say this much....

My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)

Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.

Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.

Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.

I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.

eyedclaar

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Hey, Eyed - I'll say this much....

My problem with McCandless is that his main motivation was his personal struggles with his family. Let's be honest - THAT'S what it came down to. He made heady decisions basically out of emotion. And a trip like that shouldn't be decided by emotion. Sure, makes for a great story and movie, but not a life. I don't admire him a little bit. Maybe because I don't see any respect on his part for the world around him. Do I appreciate his zeal and ambition? Sure, in a way, but from everything I read this kid(that's what he was) was just looking to run, to escape. And that shouldn't be the mindset no matter how much you're trying to attempt something like this. If anything, he should have confronted his demons(what-have-you) first and THEN made his way north. Plus, I think he would have had a totally different perspective going into his trip(assumingly the one played out to us right before he dies in the movie unfortunately.)

Dick Proenneke - now there's a dude who knew what he was doing.

Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.

Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.

I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.

I'm not sure how you arrived at most of that, but I will say this, wolves don't eat people. Even that idiot Chris probably knew that.

Jearlpam0925

eyedclaar wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Just sounds like more backseat driving from someone who doesn't relate. Guess what guys, we're not all programmed the same.

Is backseat driving worse than the shotgun driving you're doing? Look, living's pretty fucking sweet. And you're telling me if I took a chance on something and got eaten by wolves that THAT is a better way to go out than to go on living making mistakes? Because that's what I'm getting from your previous post. It's better to starve than to go on living with fundamental flaws? I hardly doubt that, because all the magic of religion set aside, no matter what, this is the only life we get. And I sure as hell love living.

I'm not looking to condemn him, but bullshit on him if he didn't think up-and-leaving wouldn't gave garnered him more attention than he apparently wanted. Bullflop to that.

I'm not sure how you arrived at most of that, but I will say this, wolves don't eat people. Even that idiot Chris probably knew that.

Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."

So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

eyedclaar

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."

So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

What I'm saying is that it is easy to focus on the mistakes of others and the choices they make. Chris made a bold choice and paid for it with his life. Others choose to smoke themselves to death, or eat themselves to death, or drive drunk, or wallow in a dark basement with crippling mental depression until they blow their own heads off, so how about we point out their obvious mistakes and rake them over the coals for it. I'm sure that really helps in the end. How about it? Anyone care to let me know how a loved one might have contibuted to their own unhappiness or death? Because I'm gonna remind you about it... often. Seems like the classy thing to do.

Cliffy6745

eyedclaar wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."

So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

What I'm saying is that it is easy to focus on the mistakes of others and the choices they make. Chris made a bold choice and paid for it with his life. Others choose to smoke themselves to death, or eat themselves to death, or drive drunk, or wallow in a dark basement with crippling mental depression until they blow their own heads off, so how about we point out their obvious mistakes and rake them over the coals for it. I'm sure that really helps in the end. How about it? Anyone care to let me know how a loved one might have contibuted to their own unhappiness or death? Because I'm gonna remind you about it... often. Seems like the classy thing to do.

But there are no books written on these people, nor are there movies made by Sean Penn and soundtracks made by EV. And the OP said he wanted to do what Chris McCandless so it became a discussion on him. Are we supposed to just praise the kid when you don't agree with everything he did?

polaris_x

listen ... it's easy for people to criticize the guy for this that and the other ... you want to call him selfish, stupid, or whatever ... that is totally your prerogative ... but what is it? ... is it because he's become somewhat famous, a book was written about him, a movie made ... are people just annoyed this guy got some attention or what? ...

at the end of the day - the man walked a path that followed his heart ... there aren't many here with the conviction to change what they don't like in their lives ...

we all sit behind a computer and gripe about this and that but how many actually do anything about it? ... this guy did and to me that is more than commendable ...

eyedclaar

Cliffy6745 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Your words, not mine - "I still think the situation just makes certain people feel like they're somehow smarter that somebody else because they never made a critical mistake that cost them their life. Of course, often times they're fucking up their life and possibly the lives of others in every manner possible, but at least they never starved to death in Alaska."

So it's better to die taking a chance than possibly living with mistakes? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

What I'm saying is that it is easy to focus on the mistakes of others and the choices they make. Chris made a bold choice and paid for it with his life. Others choose to smoke themselves to death, or eat themselves to death, or drive drunk, or wallow in a dark basement with crippling mental depression until they blow their own heads off, so how about we point out their obvious mistakes and rake them over the coals for it. I'm sure that really helps in the end. How about it? Anyone care to let me know how a loved one might have contibuted to their own unhappiness or death? Because I'm gonna remind you about it... often. Seems like the classy thing to do.

But there are no books written on these people, nor are there movies made by Sean Penn and soundtracks made by EV. And the OP said he wanted to do what Chris McCandless so it became a discussion on him. Are we supposed to just praise the kid when you don't agree with everything he did?

What I'd like for some people to realize is that they don't have the mental framework to understand someone like Chris and therefore judging him seems distasteful. I'd be willing to bet the average, soft, pasty, city person has no understanding of the compulsion to head into the wild. To test yourself in an uninviting place. It is so far removed from everything they have ever experienced, the concept is simply off the radar. I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as most people I have ever met are this way. They think I'm crazy.

I guess I relate to Chris as I have always lived on the footsteps of a great wilderness and venture out in it as often as possible. As a troubled young man, I did that often by myself. Now, had I been killed out there and later, as a ghost, was reading a bunch of people judging me when they never had the stones or physical strength to even attempt what I was doing, well, it would piss me off and I would have to haunt them.

IwasBit10

polaris_x wrote:

listen ... it's easy for people to criticize the guy for this that and the other ... you want to call him selfish, stupid, or whatever ... that is totally your prerogative ... but what is it? ... is it because he's become somewhat famous, a book was written about him, a movie made ... are people just annoyed this guy got some attention or what? ...

at the end of the day - the man walked a path that followed his heart ... there aren't many here with the conviction to change what they don't like in their lives ...

we all sit behind a computer and gripe about this and that but how many actually do anything about it? ... this guy did and to me that is more than commendable ...

I think most people are criticizing the way he treated his family, or at least his sister because the movie seems to focus in on that. The book was very heart-breaking to read about how his mother reacted. For someone who's extremely tight with their immediate family, it's difficult for me to understand his motives when it comes to that.

Otherwise, I find what he did to be very inspirational.

Cliffy6745

eyedclaar wrote:

What I'd like for some people to realize is that they don't have the mental framework to understand someone like Chris and therefore judging him seems distasteful. I'd be willing to bet the average, soft, pasty, city person has no understanding of the compulsion to head into the wild. To test yourself in an uninviting place. It is so far removed from everything they have ever experienced, the concept is simply off the radar. I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as most people I have ever met are this way. They think I'm crazy.

I guess I relate to Chris as I have always lived on the footsteps of a great wilderness and venture out in it as often as possible. As a troubled young man, I did that often by myself. Now, had I been killed out there and later, as a ghost, was reading a bunch of people judging me when they never had the stones or physical strength to even attempt what I was doing, well, it would piss me off and I would have to haunt them.

I do understand his need to go out into the wild, for lack of a better phrase. I have always enjoyed the outdoors and was raised in a family that enjoyed camping and hiking and while I have never had the desire to do what he did, do understand it. I have never criticized him for his desire to do what he did, what I have criticized was the way he did it.

You are right, I don't have the mental framework to understand why he needed to completely cut himself off, not even calling his sister or sending her a letter, anything. I also don't understand why he felt he was prepared to go into Alaska when he was far from it. We probably got too far into details than we needed and I did enjoy the book and movie, I just had a lot of problems with how he did it.



Sounds like I better not going to sleep tongith either. haha

eyedclaar

Cliffy6745 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

What I'd like for some people to realize is that they don't have the mental framework to understand someone like Chris and therefore judging him seems distasteful. I'd be willing to bet the average, soft, pasty, city person has no understanding of the compulsion to head into the wild. To test yourself in an uninviting place. It is so far removed from everything they have ever experienced, the concept is simply off the radar. I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as most people I have ever met are this way. They think I'm crazy.

I guess I relate to Chris as I have always lived on the footsteps of a great wilderness and venture out in it as often as possible. As a troubled young man, I did that often by myself. Now, had I been killed out there and later, as a ghost, was reading a bunch of people judging me when they never had the stones or physical strength to even attempt what I was doing, well, it would piss me off and I would have to haunt them.

I do understand his need to go out into the wild, for lack of a better phrase. I have always enjoyed the outdoors and was raised in a family that enjoyed camping and hiking and while I have never had the desire to do what he did, do understand it. I have never criticized him for his desire to do what he did, what I have criticized was the way he did it.

You are right, I don't have the mental framework to understand why he needed to completely cut himself off, not even calling his sister or sending her a letter, anything. I also don't understand why he felt he was prepared to go into Alaska when he was far from it. We probably got too far into details than we needed and I did enjoy the book and movie, I just had a lot of problems with how he did it.


Sounds like I better not going to sleep tongith either. haha

Yeah, his ghost might be after you. Of course, we're cool... until such time as I invite you to go hiking with me. :twisted:

polaris_x

IwasBit10 wrote:

I think most people are criticizing the way he treated his family, or at least his sister because the movie seems to focus in on that. The book was very heart-breaking to read about how his mother reacted. For someone who's extremely tight with their immediate family, it's difficult for me to understand his motives when it comes to that.

Otherwise, I find what he did to be very inspirational.

again - as much as his sister worried about him ... she understood ...

Cliffy6745

polaris_x wrote:

IwasBit10 wrote:

I think most people are criticizing the way he treated his family, or at least his sister because the movie seems to focus in on that. The book was very heart-breaking to read about how his mother reacted. For someone who's extremely tight with their immediate family, it's difficult for me to understand his motives when it comes to that.

Otherwise, I find what he did to be very inspirational.

again - as much as his sister worried about him ... she understood ...

15 years after the fact

Cliffy6745

eyedclaar wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

What I'd like for some people to realize is that they don't have the mental framework to understand someone like Chris and therefore judging him seems distasteful. I'd be willing to bet the average, soft, pasty, city person has no understanding of the compulsion to head into the wild. To test yourself in an uninviting place. It is so far removed from everything they have ever experienced, the concept is simply off the radar. I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as most people I have ever met are this way. They think I'm crazy.

I guess I relate to Chris as I have always lived on the footsteps of a great wilderness and venture out in it as often as possible. As a troubled young man, I did that often by myself. Now, had I been killed out there and later, as a ghost, was reading a bunch of people judging me when they never had the stones or physical strength to even attempt what I was doing, well, it would piss me off and I would have to haunt them.

I do understand his need to go out into the wild, for lack of a better phrase. I have always enjoyed the outdoors and was raised in a family that enjoyed camping and hiking and while I have never had the desire to do what he did, do understand it. I have never criticized him for his desire to do what he did, what I have criticized was the way he did it.

You are right, I don't have the mental framework to understand why he needed to completely cut himself off, not even calling his sister or sending her a letter, anything. I also don't understand why he felt he was prepared to go into Alaska when he was far from it. We probably got too far into details than we needed and I did enjoy the book and movie, I just had a lot of problems with how he did it.


Sounds like I better not going to sleep tongith either. haha

Yeah, his ghost might be after you. Of course, we're cool... until such time as I invite you to go hiking with me. :twisted:

Well then, I must respectfully decline in advance.

dunkman

eyedclaar wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

What I'm saying is that it is easy to focus on the mistakes of others and the choices they make. Chris made a bold choice and paid for it with his life. Others choose to smoke themselves to death, or eat themselves to death, or drive drunk, or wallow in a dark basement with crippling mental depression until they blow their own heads off, so how about we point out their obvious mistakes and rake them over the coals for it. I'm sure that really helps in the end. How about it? Anyone care to let me know how a loved one might have contibuted to their own unhappiness or death? Because I'm gonna remind you about it... often. Seems like the classy thing to do.

But there are no books written on these people, nor are there movies made by Sean Penn and soundtracks made by EV. And the OP said he wanted to do what Chris McCandless so it became a discussion on him. Are we supposed to just praise the kid when you don't agree with everything he did?

What I'd like for some people to realize is that they don't have the mental framework to understand someone like Chris and therefore judging him seems distasteful. I'd be willing to bet the average, soft, pasty, city person has no understanding of the compulsion to head into the wild. To test yourself in an uninviting place. It is so far removed from everything they have ever experienced, the concept is simply off the radar. I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as most people I have ever met are this way. They think I'm crazy.

I guess I relate to Chris as I have always lived on the footsteps of a great wilderness and venture out in it as often as possible. As a troubled young man, I did that often by myself. Now, had I been killed out there and later, as a ghost, was reading a bunch of people judging me when they never had the stones or physical strength to even attempt what I was doing, well, it would piss me off and I would have to haunt them.

i find what his motives for what he done to be admirable... i find his methods were arrogant... but the guys story is actually quite inspirational, at least his motivation for what he did is inspirational.

and your implying that some of us dont have the 'stones' to do what he did, but then i dont really fancy dying of starvation all alone on a deserted bus... i dont find that admirable.

But regardless of all of his failings, this thread has made me think about where to go this summer in the Scottish mountains