I can't wait for Universal Healthcare...

redrock

dunkman wrote:

But the twins were born when she was barely six months pregnant, and the boy, Parker, developed cerebral palsy. The doctors recommended physical therapy to build up muscle strength and give the boy a fighting chance of learning to walk, but her managed health provider refused to cover it.

The crazy bureaucratic logic was that the policy covered only "rehabilitative" therapy - in other words, teaching a patient a physical skill that has been lost. Since Parker had never walked, the therapy was in essence teaching him a new skill and therefore did not qualify. The Hilsabecks railed, protested, won some small reprieves, but ended up selling their home and moving into a trailer to cover their costs. Elizabeth's husband, Steven, considered taking a new, better-paying job, but chose not to after making careful inquiries about the health insurance coverage. "When is he getting over the cerebral palsy?" a prospective new insurance company representative breezily asked the Hilsabecks. When Elizabeth explained he would never get over it, she was told she was on her own.

And this is the care a little boy in the same situation would get through the NHS - at NO COST to the parents : http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cerebral-p ... tment.aspx

I rest my case.

aerial

dunkman wrote:

wait wait... one badly run hospital in the uk!!

that must mean all of american hospitals are super-clean comfort zones with an endless amount of care and supreme nursing techniques... as this article shows!...



Cynthia Kline knew exactly what was happening to her when she suffered a heart attack at her home in Cambridge, Massachusetts. She took the time to call an ambulance, popped some nitroglycerin tablets she had been prescribed in anticipation of just such an emergency, and waited for help to arrive.

On paper, everything should have gone fine. Unlike tens of millions of Americans, she had health insurance coverage. The ambulance team arrived promptly. The hospital where she had been receiving treatment for her cardiac problems, a private teaching facility affiliated with the Harvard Medical School, was just a few minutes away.

The problem was, the casualty department at the hospital, Mount Auburn, was full to overflowing. And it turned her away. The ambulance took her to another nearby hospital but the treatment she needed, an emergency catheterisation, was not available there. A flurry of phone calls to other medical facilities in the Boston area came up empty. Within a few hours, Cynthia Kline was dead.

She died in an American city with one of the highest concentration of top-flight medical specialists in the world. And it happened largely because of America's broken health care system - one where 50 million people are entirely without insurance coverage and tens of millions more struggle to have the treatment they need approved. As a result, medical problems go unattended until they reach crisis point. Patients then rush to hospital casualty departments, where by law they cannot be turned away, overwhelming the system entirely. Everyone - doctors and patients, politicians on both the left and the right - agrees this is an insane way to run a health system.

When Elizabeth Hilsabeck gave birth to premature twins in Austin, Texas, she encountered another kind of insanity. Again, she was insured -- through her husband, who had a good job in banking. But the twins were born when she was barely six months pregnant, and the boy, Parker, developed cerebral palsy. The doctors recommended physical therapy to build up muscle strength and give the boy a fighting chance of learning to walk, but her managed health provider refused to cover it.

The crazy bureaucratic logic was that the policy covered only "rehabilitative" therapy - in other words, teaching a patient a physical skill that has been lost. Since Parker had never walked, the therapy was in essence teaching him a new skill and therefore did not qualify. The Hilsabecks railed, protested, won some small reprieves, but ended up selling their home and moving into a trailer to cover their costs. Elizabeth's husband, Steven, considered taking a new, better-paying job, but chose not to after making careful inquiries about the health insurance coverage. "When is he getting over the cerebral palsy?" a prospective new insurance company representative breezily asked the Hilsabecks. When Elizabeth explained he would never get over it, she was told she was on her own.








sounds fucking idyllic if you ask me.. :thumbup:

I don't see how Universal Heath Care is going to solve incompetence! If everyone has heath care seems more hospitals will be full when people arrive...The government will pick and choose who is first in line for care....wait and see....and it will still be the wealthy getting the best care....I do agree cost is out of hand these days...

redrock

aerial wrote:

I don't see how Universal Heath Care is going to solve incompetence!

Doesn't solve incompetence but it would sure have solved Parker and his parents' problems. Parker (and anyone like him) doesn't stand a chance in the USA unless parents have unlimited reserves of money. With universal health, Parker can have somewhat of a life and so can his parents and siblings.

chime

aerial wrote:

I don't see how Universal Heath Care is going to solve incompetence! If everyone has heath care seems more hospitals will be full when people arrive...The government will pick and choose who is first in line for care....wait and see....and it will still be the wealthy getting the best care....I do agree cost is out of hand these days...

But as suggested elsewhere may be the emergency treatment facilities would be less busy as with universal healthcare people may go for treatment before it became an emergency.

For a person without private healthcare going to emergency treatment facilities may be the first port of call as they know they can't be turned away thus overloading the system where they may only need the treatment of a primary care physician :?

cincybearcat

dunkman wrote:

yawn.

this is one hospital for fuck sake...

Just as it is silly to completely dismiss Universal Health Care because of 1 hospital...it is just as silly to dismiss potential issues because it is "only 1 hospital".

dunkman

aerial wrote:

I don't see how Universal Heath Care is going to solve incompetence! If everyone has heath care seems more hospitals will be full when people arrive...The government will pick and choose who is first in line for care....wait and see....and it will still be the wealthy getting the best care....I do agree cost is out of hand these days...

its more about fixing the problem BEFORE it gets to a hospital... as for accident and emergency wards, whether a person has universal healthcare or not, if they are in an accident or an emergency won't they still need seen?

if everyone has health care then hospitals see people who are ill... if that means its quite busy now and again then that means a lot of people are ill and want to be seen... are you suggesting that without universal healthcare the hospitals are quiter? is that because they are perhaps to poor or scared to visit the hospital in case they can't afford it? the reason they are quieter is because some poor fucker doesnt want a $3000 bill for a sore ear?

as for the government picking and choosing who is first in line for care??

why does the govt need to know? also personal finances wouldnt even be an issue... a 46 year old man needing an operation on his knee is just as important as a 23 year old lady needing one... one might get seen before the other depending on the seriousness of each persons condition... but they won't have a pick and choose method via the government.. thats insane.

dunkman

cincybearcat wrote:

dunkman wrote:

yawn.

this is one hospital for fuck sake...

Just as it is silly to completely dismiss Universal Health Care because of 1 hospital...it is just as silly to dismiss potential issues because it is "only 1 hospital".

you're clutching at a very very thin straw. it's not silly at all, it's like posting a report on one white Cincinatti man beating the fuck out of a black kid and then starting a thread saying all white males from Cincinatti are racists. you'd then call it silly... which is what I've done to the OP.

if you read the thread you'll see that UK people dont think their National Health Service is 100% effective and without problems. we're not that naive.

redrock

cincybearcat wrote:

dunkman wrote:

yawn.

this is one hospital for fuck sake...

Just as it is silly to completely dismiss Universal Health Care because of 1 hospital...it is just as silly to dismiss potential issues because it is "only 1 hospital".

I don't think anyone is dismissing potential issues. In the UK, the government is dealing with these on a daily basis. We know the system is not perfect and there's always room for improvement.

I think a poster here was not looking at potential issues but making unfounded/unresearched/false statements regarding the system and proposing a doomesday scenario!

breath123

sorry no sale

I know a shitload of Canadians and they all tell me they like their healthcare. they say that they may have to (gasp, America) wait an hour to see a doctor or (gasp gasp) pay more for an elective surgery.

they also mention that they do not appreciate how their system is being propagandized to leverage a political fight.

Aerial, you and your friends on the right should send wellpoint a bill for your lobbying services, I mean why should lobbyists, Republicans, and Fox "news" commentators get money and you don't, right?

WaveCameCrashin

dunkman wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

This is the UK's answer to Univeral Healthcare.
A single payer authoritarian Gov run healthcare system that covers pre existing conditions.
Everybody has healthcare. Its all SUBSIDIZED...NOBODY CAN BE TURNED AWAY.
the problem is no one can get in,and so few can get QUALITY CARE no matter how much is spent.
We have brand new drugs being devloped everyday in the western world and yet these patients in the UK are denied.
If you don't think that this can't happen here you're WRONG.

yawn.

this is one hospital for fuck sake...

and your comments above are just scaremongering lies... genuine lies.

"no-one can get in" ... thats just utter shit. utter shit. It's illegal here for a hospital to refuse medical care to any British citizen. illegal.

"so few can get QUALITY CARE" ... its 100% better quality care than some 16 year old girl who gets gang-raped in Alabama who will then be 'charged' by the ever compassionate US medical system for a rape kit, the abortion and 3 bandages.

don't read one fucking article and then think its the 11th commandment or something... its a run down inner city hospital... I live in a rural area of Scotland... the hospitals around here are genuinely fantastic as are most in the UK. There will be hospitals in Manchester, Glasgow & London that are perhaps not as good.. but its not a perfect system... its a fuckload better system than the US medicals version of darwinism though. instead of the fittest surving its the richest.

using one bad example of a hospital and saying its like ALL hospitals .. is like me saying all americans are gun wielding burger munching right wing racists with really bad dress sense.

smarten up.

Obviously you don't get it. This is what we don't want to happen to our Hospitals. Ill take our health care over N.I.C.E. any fucking day of the week pal. Your hospitals are nothing but shitholes. You have people there that cant even get cutting edge medicine for arthritis. What a disgrace.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... tland.html

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

Obviously you don't get it. This is what we don't want to happen to our Hospitals. Ill take our health care over N.I.C.E. any fucking day of the week pal. Your hospitals are nothing but shitholes. You have people there that cant even get cutting edge medicine for arthritis. What a disgrace.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... tland.html

so you have been to all hospitals in the US and the UK....nice work..

chime

prfctlefts wrote:

dunkman wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

This is the UK's answer to Univeral Healthcare.
A single payer authoritarian Gov run healthcare system that covers pre existing conditions.
Everybody has healthcare. Its all SUBSIDIZED...NOBODY CAN BE TURNED AWAY.
the problem is no one can get in,and so few can get QUALITY CARE no matter how much is spent.
We have brand new drugs being devloped everyday in the western world and yet these patients in the UK are denied.
If you don't think that this can't happen here you're WRONG.

yawn.

this is one hospital for fuck sake...

and your comments above are just scaremongering lies... genuine lies.

"no-one can get in" ... thats just utter shit. utter shit. It's illegal here for a hospital to refuse medical care to any British citizen. illegal.

"so few can get QUALITY CARE" ... its 100% better quality care than some 16 year old girl who gets gang-raped in Alabama who will then be 'charged' by the ever compassionate US medical system for a rape kit, the abortion and 3 bandages.

don't read one fucking article and then think its the 11th commandment or something... its a run down inner city hospital... I live in a rural area of Scotland... the hospitals around here are genuinely fantastic as are most in the UK. There will be hospitals in Manchester, Glasgow & London that are perhaps not as good.. but its not a perfect system... its a fuckload better system than the US medicals version of darwinism though. instead of the fittest surving its the richest.

using one bad example of a hospital and saying its like ALL hospitals .. is like me saying all americans are gun wielding burger munching right wing racists with really bad dress sense.

smarten up.

Obviously you don't get it. This is what we don't want to happen to our Hospitals. Ill take our health care over N.I.C.E. any fucking day of the week pal. Your hospitals are nothing but shitholes. You have people there that cant even get cutting edge medicine for arthritis. What a disgrace.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... tland.html

Dunk is from Scotland ... the article says the drug is available in Scotland.

Do insurance companies never deny funding for any medicines or treatments??

You're talking about people being denied a particular drug ... what about cases like the guy who was on Medicaid that Trent Reznor helped to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for as he could not get transplant treatment in Nevada http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2 ... 45k-f.html

... and are hospitals aren't 'nothing but shitholes' :roll:

unsung

My stepfather has cancer and when his blood count gets low they have to give him this injection that I'm told costs $3k. I don't know the name of it, I'm not a medical professional. It has to get approved by the insurance company every time. So what if they decide they don't want to cover it anymore? I mean if he needs it why the need for the phone call? Are they going to say no?

I seriously would sign on for UHC under two conditions. Illegal aliens start having to pay up front, because they are the ones that skip town and leave us with the bill. And they are not to be covered under ANY law, in fact in order to pay for our citizens for health care it is time to end all funding for people who are in this country illegally. Cut that spending out and money will appear. Also no insurance for any able bodied unemployed person unless they are actively looking for work. No more sitting on the couch collecting a check.

chime

Firstly I hope your stepfathers treatment is successful

unsung wrote:

I seriously would sign on for UHC under two conditions. Illegal aliens start having to pay up front, because they are the ones that skip town and leave us with the bill. And they are not to be covered under ANY law, in fact in order to pay for our citizens for health care it is time to end all funding for people who are in this country illegally. Cut that spending out and money will appear. Also no insurance for any able bodied unemployed person unless they are actively looking for work. No more sitting on the couch collecting a check.

You wouldn't like our system then ... if an overseas visitor is on holiday in the UK and has an accident any treatment in an accident and emergency department would be free (we also throw in free compulsory psychiatric care and family planning treatment ) ... you can be charged for other treatment though

breath123

chime wrote:

Firstly I hope your stepfathers treatment is successful

unsung wrote:

I seriously would sign on for UHC under two conditions. Illegal aliens start having to pay up front, because they are the ones that skip town and leave us with the bill. And they are not to be covered under ANY law, in fact in order to pay for our citizens for health care it is time to end all funding for people who are in this country illegally. Cut that spending out and money will appear. Also no insurance for any able bodied unemployed person unless they are actively looking for work. No more sitting on the couch collecting a check.

You wouldn't like our system then ... if an overseas visitor is on holiday in the UK and has an accident any treatment in an accident and emergency department would be free (we also throw in free compulsory psychiatric care and family planning treatment ) ... you can be charged for other treatment though

USA!...USA!....U...S........(sob)...A

Cosmo

unsung wrote:

My stepfather has cancer and when his blood count gets low they have to give him this injection that I'm told costs $3k. I don't know the name of it, I'm not a medical professional. It has to get approved by the insurance company every time. So what if they decide they don't want to cover it anymore? I mean if he needs it why the need for the phone call? Are they going to say no?

...
Yes. An insurance company accountant may one day decide that the cost of your step father's health care is over running the premiums you've paid in by too high of a margin and deny any further injections... unless you can pay some or all of the costs (they take Visa and MasterCard... but, prefer cash). This is how Americans with Health Care insurance have been driven to the poor house because they pay whatever it takes for the well being of a loved one.
This is what the whole (access to affordable) Health Care Reform has always been about. The make Health Care (Insurance Companies) stop the practice of denying claims because it is not profitable for them.

norm

unsung wrote:

My stepfather has cancer and when his blood count gets low they have to give him this injection that I'm told costs $3k. I don't know the name of it, I'm not a medical professional. It has to get approved by the insurance company every time. So what if they decide they don't want to cover it anymore? I mean if he needs it why the need for the phone call? Are they going to say no?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-l ... ull.column

KDH12

our health care system is fucked

costs are going through roof, it is holding wages down and it is causing people to loose their livelihood (i know several people that have lost everything and filed bankruptcy due to emergency medical care)

TriumphantAngel

Cosmo

I have an anecdotal experience that goes to show how fucked up our access to Health Care is...
I have been a voluenteer crew member for the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer 3-Day Walk and Avon 2-Day Walk for Breast Cancer Research for the past 8 years. A teammate of mine (Jim) and his 2 daughters and their husbands have been involved for the same amount of time. They voluenteered because his wife, Jackie (their mom) was fighting for her life, due to the very disease were are trying to fight.
Jim worked for (and retired from) an Health Care Insurance Company.
When Jackie was first diagnosed, the insurance kicked in and there weren't any problems and she went into remission for a while. When the cancer re-appeared, all of a sudden, the insurance company (whom he had worked for in a magement position for 30+ years) denied further treatment. They used their savings and his pension and took out a second on their home to pay for the treatment. They not only had to fight the horrible disease... they had to fight the insurance company as well. This should not happen to law abiding, taxpaying American citizens who paid their premiums for the insurance they were told would be there.
Jackie passed away 3 years ago and Jim had to continue to fight the very company he had worked for all of those years. Lawyers got involved and the company finally re-imbursed part of the costs for Jackie's treatments... but none of the hospice care and end of life comfort costs.
...
This shouldn't be the norm. All that talk about 'Death Panels' and shit.... the Death Panels are already at YOUR insurance companies. They decide whether you are a liability or not to their shareholders. It sickens me that this happens to people like Jim and Jackie in our country.
Anyway, we dedicate our Pit Stop at the San Diego 3-Day Walk in Jackie's memory.
...
Those of you whom are against Health Care reform... I hope you never have to face the realities of the system in place. The system is fucked up because its primary concern in the bottom line, not your best interests. This has been going on for way to long in our country and doing nothing about it isn't going to fix it.