Well I ask because my mother is a teacher and she gets close to 35% - 40% of her paycheck taken, but thats in union dues, pension plans, taxes, school board stuff etc.
Trust me, her life hasn't changed dramatically even with that chunk taken away (again, not all tax!). She could still afford the $1000 TV system I'm watching... But could she afford an operation down there? Maybe not... :?
half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses
Ok I asked my mom and she showed me her paystub... (i needed somoene with a REAL job, unlike myself )
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:
income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...
you know why i called you out. you are an antagonist in this thread. you seem to side with the other 3 posters every chance you get. you seem like a smart guy so i wanted to find out what you would have to say about that situation and if you had a one line reply about it or were you going to ignore it like everyone else did when i posted defense spending....your posts suggest to me that you want obama to fail, the same as rush and the same as those on fox news. there are people here who are anti obama and relish in his failures, the same as the teabaggers on here, and more often that not you align yourself with people like them.
i do not care who you voted for or what your stance is on the wars. all i know of you is what you post.
all i care about is progressing this country and moving forward and doing the greatest good for the most people.
I'm the antagonist? I said I wouldn't have a problem with it if certain controls were put into place. How is that being in any way an antagonist? I would have answered your question about defense but instead you assumed I am for the military budget that we have. You should have taken the time to know where I stand on that issue since you claim I'm the antagonist, but you admittedly stated that you don't care where I stand. Kind of hard to present a debate when you don't know the facts.
No I don't want Obama to fail, because then the country fails. However I don't agree with most of his policies because he wants to spend money like it grows on trees. I've NEVER listened to Rush in my life. He is a blowhard much like Bill Maher. You want to cut defense? Fine by me. But I want cuts across the board, starting with a few choice programs I'd like to see reduced or eliminated. I'm sure I could find the funding without cutting the military budget pretty easily. I only want one person to fail, Nancy Pelosi. I don't use the word hate, but I hate her. The only other thing I hate is country music.
Call me a teabagger if you want, I'd rather be that than a liberal or a neo-con.
yes you are being an antagonist. or would obstructionist be a better term? coming up with reason after reason and unmeetable restrictions for why universal health care should be stopped. like i said, all i know of you is what you post here. i think you actually supported obama in 2008 when you used another screen name but that is neither here nor there. you say we can't have a debate when i don't know the facts. i know the facts of the defense spending not your beliefs, and frankly your beliefs do not have any bearing on this debate.
as far as obama failing, what has he proposed that you actually support? in today's politics and this enviroment people are hoping he fails. i consider blanket opposition to his policies as a general rule of thumb to be equal to hoping he fails. you are either with him or against him. we have to spend money to get the economy going again. if not it stagnates and then jobs and wages and personal spending drop like rocks. we are on the brink of forever here and what we do, or more importantly fail to do right now is going to effect this country for a generation or two to come. its not about me and you or our beliefs, its about moving this country forward and getting it out of the deep recession we are in. we have to spend money to get it going again. the alternative is doing nothing and then nothing will ever improve. i want to cut defense first. then nasa, those things are not helping our country right now. across the board cuts and eliminating programs is irresponsible in my opinion because it hurts a large number of the citizins...you can hate pelosi all you want, we all have people in politics that we despise, but she is on the field now so we have to hope she can help win the game.
if you want to be called a teabagger that's fine with me, just don't get mad at me or anyone else if people start calling you that..
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Well I ask because my mother is a teacher and she gets close to 35% - 40% of her paycheck taken, but thats in union dues, pension plans, taxes, school board stuff etc.
Trust me, her life hasn't changed dramatically even with that chunk taken away (again, not all tax!). She could still afford the $1000 TV system I'm watching... But could she afford an operation down there? Maybe not... :?
half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses
Ok I asked my mom and she showed me her paystub... (i needed somoene with a REAL job, unlike myself )
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:
income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...
half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses
Ok I asked my mom and she showed me her paystub... (i needed somoene with a REAL job, unlike myself )
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:
income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...
Thats good to know....thanks.
Note that less then 20% is tax and medical coverage
Note that Canada does not spend almost a trillion a year on defense
Note that almost 15% is being reserved for retirement
i want to cut defense first. then nasa, those things are not helping our country right now. across the board cuts and eliminating programs is irresponsible in my opinion because it hurts a large number of the citizins...
:? I will actually agree with you that we could cut some on defense spending,but we should not make cuts to NASA that will cost Jobs and isn't that what were trying not to do.For Florida it would be devastating in the short term," Roger Handberg, a political scientist at the University of Central Florida who has written extensively on space policy. "If NASA goes into relative decline or suspension of manned launches, we're going to be in a hole.
Florida senator Bill Nelson (D-Orlando) has also come out against the plan, and other politicians from states that would lose jobs are also likely to fight the proposal.
The four you are talking about may have similar ideas, yet we do not agree on everything. What makes us different is we do not berate each other when we do have a difference of opinion. We listen to you and even though we may disagree with you and the other progressives, we treat you and the others that aline with you in a totally respectful manner when possible. Not all people in the TP hate Obama, but some do not trust him. We are human with different opinions just as you are.....so why are you always so hostile? Why would anyone answer you when You act as though you are the one and only person that knows all?....It would be nice if you could open your mind and heart show a little compassion & Respect for others. You might learn something new.
Now in reference to the enlarged lettering...all you are saying here is he is gutless and does not stand behind his convictions. He made a promise to end the war and instead of holding him to his campaign promises you are making excesses for him...Why is that?
i do not have time to make friends on here aerial. i am gruff and matter of fact and do not waste time with the idea that tax cuts will fix everything and that the free market will sort things out. and i do not give credence to the tea party because of their antics at town hall meetings and that most of them are, to put it kindly, uninformed...and most of them only became somewhat politically aware in november of 2008 when the same shit had been going on the previous 8 years... so i am sorry if my style and demeanor does not make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
regarding the bolded part, did you read my post? or did you read it and not comprehend it? i am not making excuses, i am speculating as to his motives with everything that is going on in the big picture politically today. i said he signed it because of the firestorm from the right that would have erupted if he had let it expire. the things i put in quotes are assertions from the right that have been stated ad nauseum for 2 years now....these are things that have been said by prominent figures on the right, cheney, giuliani, palin, and the media outlet for the right called fox news. i think he chose not to take up this fight because he would be smeared in the press and i think his base is loyal enough to him to put up with another year of the patriot act in order for him to complete the iraq troop drawdown and so we can finish in afghanistan. i think his base will stay loyal enough to him because they would rather him be in office than any republican or tea candidate out there. cleaning up after your boy bush can not be finished in one year. one thing at a time....
No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.
this bill isn't UHC...it's a shell of that. It will help and i think that A bill needs to be implemented now. give the people some time to see how effective it is, then go back in and make the serious adjustments to it. INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE ALREADY GETTING IN THE WAY OF YOU AND YOUR HEALTHCARE...NOT THE GOVT. To the OP, you cannot take one article on one hospital and form an opinion....well you can but it's not a strong, fact based one. We have public schools in this country, i've lived in the shitty areas of chicago and moved to the burbs...those public schools that the govt. runs can be vastly different (guess which ones have the better ones) just like it seems these hospitals in places like Canada and Scotland are. The only difference being, as i understand it, you have the option of not being to confined to only a handful of places (which our current medical system does.) Just in general, this whole medical system is SOOOOOOO FUCKED in this country we need to have some big changes...and i liked the presidents original plan, public option and a tax increase on the top 1% of the population (people making 1,000,000 and more) to pay for the rest. The govt. isn't going to kill you, the insurance and drug companies do that for you...all while they collect billions of dollars a year in profit....about 6 lobbyists per every member of congress...that's why shit doesn't get done.
No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.
i would reply to this but you will probably report my post so i won't say what i really want to say....
i don't care if you think i am a jerk. i really don't. as i said, i am not here to be your friend. you can call me a radical or whatever you like, it really does not bother me. but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001.. we have people from other countries saying how well their system works, yet why can it not work here? why to YOU say it will bankrupt the country when universal health care has yet to bankrupt any country that has it? you have given no proof that it will. why can you not address the figures i gave about the defense budget? why can you not give credence to what people from other countries have to say? does their opinion and there experience not matter because they are not american? or because you read one article about one hospital you are now an authority on the subject? their posts and my posts speak for themselves. we will not change your mind, but you have to admit that something is wrong and if we don't fix it now we will be in for a world of hurt later. you have to concede that point at least.
i believe in the freedom of speech, but in order for me to listen and pay attention you better know what you are talking about. the teabaggers' most vocal speakers are the stupidest 2% in the country. this has been proven time and again by video clips, photos, and newspaper articles. look at the "tea baggers" thread on this very message board. look at the signs they make, look at what they yell in the meetings, they have absolutely no clue. and as for november 2010, i welcome the challenges from the republicans. i welcome it, because your party has no ideas other than "NO NO NO!!" and do not think for one second the public does not know that. i can not wait for the ads to come out. its gonna be great. and as far as obama being a fraud, i feel sorry for you if you are in fact that cynical. can't you see that he is doing the best he can with what he has been given? i am sure mccain would have done a much better job......yeah right...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
this bill isn't UHC...it's a shell of that. It will help and i think that A bill needs to be implemented now. give the people some time to see how effective it is, then go back in and make the serious adjustments to it. INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE ALREADY GETTING IN THE WAY OF YOU AND YOUR HEALTHCARE...NOT THE GOVT. To the OP, you cannot take one article on one hospital and form an opinion....well you can but it's not a strong, fact based one. We have public schools in this country, i've lived in the shitty areas of chicago and moved to the burbs...those public schools that the govt. runs can be vastly different (guess which ones have the better ones) just like it seems these hospitals in places like Canada and Scotland are. The only difference being, as i understand it, you have the option of not being to confined to only a handful of places (which our current medical system does.) Just in general, this whole medical system is SOOOOOOO FUCKED in this country we need to have some big changes...and i liked the presidents original plan, public option and a tax increase on the top 1% of the population (people making 1,000,000 and more) to pay for the rest. The govt. isn't going to kill you, the insurance and drug companies do that for you...all while they collect billions of dollars a year in profit....about 6 lobbyists per every member of congress...that's why shit doesn't get done.
I agree our Healthcare system isnt perfect,but a complete Gov takeover is only going to make it worse. The GOV can't run shit right.They will only run it into the ground. It will lead to price controls and it will hamper innovation,competition,and choice and it will also lead to rationing and artificially high prices just look at at Social Sec, Medi-care,and Medi-caid.. They are all billions in the red. Obama says it will only cost a Trillion,but the CBO is saying it's going to cost more like 6 Trillion. All that will do is drive the cost up. And as far as the Ins companies go.I agree they need some GOV oversite no doubt. But Why doesn't Obama and the Dems support Tort reform ? Because the lawyers are some of their biggest contributors to their party. Let us buy across state lines is another example that will drive down the cost.
No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.
i would reply to this but you will probably report my post so i won't say what i really want to say....
i don't care if you think i am a jerk. i really don't. as i said, i am not here to be your friend. you can call me a radical or whatever you like, it really does not bother me. but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001.. we have people from other countries saying how well their system works, yet why can it not work here? why to YOU say it will bankrupt the country when universal health care has yet to bankrupt any country that has it? you have given no proof that it will. why can you not address the figures i gave about the defense budget? why can you not give credence to what people from other countries have to say? does their opinion and there experience not matter because they are not american? or because you read one article about one hospital you are now an authority on the subject? their posts and my posts speak for themselves. we will not change your mind, but you have to admit that something is wrong and if we don't fix it now we will be in for a world of hurt later. you have to concede that point at least.
i believe in the freedom of speech, but in order for me to listen and pay attention you better know what you are talking about. the teabaggers' most vocal speakers are the stupidest 2% in the country. this has been proven time and again by video clips, photos, and newspaper articles. look at the "tea baggers" thread on this very message board. look at the signs they make, look at what they yell in the meetings, they have absolutely no clue. and as for november 2010, i welcome the challenges from the republicans. i welcome it, because your party has no ideas other than "NO NO NO!!" and do not think for one second the public does not know that. i can not wait for the ads to come out. its gonna be great. and as far as obama being a fraud, i feel sorry for you if you are in fact that cynical. can't you see that he is doing the best he can with what he has been given? i am sure mccain would have done a much better job......yeah right...
Really.. :roll: Just like you reported me when I said you were a peice of fecal matter. Honestly I could care less if you did or didnt I needed a break from this place. But I digress... My side has been owned :roll: :? WTF is that supppose to mean. I didnt know we were in a pissing contest. I posted that link to prove a point that what UHC can can lead to.There is no such thing as free health care.
You will be paying for your health care and for the health care of everyone else. There is no way to create universal health care without severely increasing taxes. Even though you would not be making a payment at the doctor’s office you would be making huge payments out of every pay day check you earn.
It is true that there are too many people who currently do not have access to care and it is an issue that must be addressed. However creating a government sponsored system which would allow politicians to severely handicap your doctor’s ability to provide you with the best treatment is clearly not the answer. When it comes to health care we cannot settle for mediocre.
As far as the tee partiers most vocal being the stupidest 2%... Just look wher you get your info from.. You get it from outlets that want to make them look as bad as the possibly can. So yeah of course they are going to show some people that might not be very sharp, But at least they are standidng up for something that they believe in. 90% of them and me believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.
Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS
believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.
Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS
believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.
Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS
nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....
It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right
Nice late...early morning catch gimmie.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.
Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS
nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....
fact is it is true.....it’s a disgrace .........and I don’t see anyone here denying it
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.
I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.
ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket
I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans
That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes. So UHC in the US won't necessarily mean getting the same tax rate as us as our taxes also cover other things.
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.
I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.
ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket
I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans
That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes.
tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket
I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans
That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes.
tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.
Heehee when I did my post-grad in England I got half my fees paid and a maintance grant from the Scottish students studying abroad fund
I love the UK and it's convuluted different countries
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes.
tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.
Heehee when I did my post-grad in England I got half my fees paid and a maintance grant from the Scottish students studying abroad fund
I love the UK and it's convuluted different countries
studying abroad?
at least we only have the 4 countries rules and stuff to worry about... the US has 50 different laws and regs covering each state.... its a bureaucratic nightmare... combine that with self assessment taxing and the need for many different forms of insurance paperwork to get a sprained ankle fixed i'm surprised people in the US have time to shoot students.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I'm not too sure why it would be. Assuming the principles are the same (which I know they will not be..), setting up for 61 million or 304 million shouldn't be all that different. Rules and regulations are written once, whatever the number. You may be talking costs and administration, but all numbers are in proportion to each other. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
There is also the advantage over the NHS that you are setting up a system when there have been systems set up elsewhere in the world for over 60 years so you can learn from the way other systems have worked and from their mistakes.
This is true.
As for the difficulty of setting up a system for 304 million vs. 61 million, we'll just have to disagree.
its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.
Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS
nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....
It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right
fact is it is true.....it’s a disgrace .........and I don’t see anyone here denying it
....Rightfully so, it is a disgrace especially being the original poster.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right
Nice late...early morning catch gimmie.
Peace
yes, i might be a "radical progressive" but that does not stop me from reading things from all sides...a friend emailed me that link a few weeks ago and as soon as i began to read his post i immediately recognized it...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.
You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.
The dialogue needs to continue. People need to stop taking a "side" and start reviewing the facts. But it won;t happen, hasn't even happened on this messageboard. So any change to Health Care that comes from this half assed effort will be a failure and take away any chance of a good system for some time by making people very skeptical of the entire process all over again. The dialogue on health care should have started when Obama started it, but a proposal shouldn't have been made until after the discussion was over.
its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.
You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.
its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.
Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?
A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I was looking into renewing my travel insurance and got me thinking of another problem as when renewing travel insurance for a year I have to think about whether I'm likely to travel to the US or not in the coming year as travel insurance is sold here as Worldwide (excl. US) - cheaper OR Worldwide (incl. US) more expensive - and the US is the only country that is listed like this. The only reason I can think of for this premium on travelling to the US is the cost of healthcare. The US system is designed to make money and obviously UHC is not and getting that many professionals out of that mindset and into one of cost reduction will be a challenge. Will doctors etc accept that they are not going to make as much money.
Here doctors are considered well paid but compared to some of their American counter-parts it's nothing.
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.
You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.
its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.
Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?
A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"
I object...leading the witnesses.
Judge ... "Sustained...counselor that was a really bullshit way to ask that question".
its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.
Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?
A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"
I object...leading the witnesses.
Judge ... "Sustained...counselor that was a really bullshit way to ask that question".
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Privatization leads to high cost. I know many want to say big government is bad but lets think about cost. In Chicago we privatized toll roads and parking meters and immediately prices went up. Now with essentials like health care, electricity and gas services I am not sure why we would want those in the hands of private entities? So they can keep increasing the costs making it harder to make ends meet each month?
Comments
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:
income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...
as far as obama failing, what has he proposed that you actually support? in today's politics and this enviroment people are hoping he fails. i consider blanket opposition to his policies as a general rule of thumb to be equal to hoping he fails. you are either with him or against him. we have to spend money to get the economy going again. if not it stagnates and then jobs and wages and personal spending drop like rocks. we are on the brink of forever here and what we do, or more importantly fail to do right now is going to effect this country for a generation or two to come. its not about me and you or our beliefs, its about moving this country forward and getting it out of the deep recession we are in. we have to spend money to get it going again. the alternative is doing nothing and then nothing will ever improve. i want to cut defense first. then nasa, those things are not helping our country right now. across the board cuts and eliminating programs is irresponsible in my opinion because it hurts a large number of the citizins...you can hate pelosi all you want, we all have people in politics that we despise, but she is on the field now so we have to hope she can help win the game.
if you want to be called a teabagger that's fine with me, just don't get mad at me or anyone else if people start calling you that..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Thats good to know....thanks.
Note that less then 20% is tax and medical coverage
Note that Canada does not spend almost a trillion a year on defense
Note that almost 15% is being reserved for retirement
I think I want to move to Canada
:? I will actually agree with you that we could cut some on defense spending,but we should not make cuts to NASA that will cost Jobs and isn't that what were trying not to do.For Florida it would be devastating in the short term," Roger Handberg, a political scientist at the University of Central Florida who has written extensively on space policy. "If NASA goes into relative decline or suspension of manned launches, we're going to be in a hole.
Florida senator Bill Nelson (D-Orlando) has also come out against the plan, and other politicians from states that would lose jobs are also likely to fight the proposal.
No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.
i would reply to this but you will probably report my post so i won't say what i really want to say....
i don't care if you think i am a jerk. i really don't. as i said, i am not here to be your friend. you can call me a radical or whatever you like, it really does not bother me. but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001.. we have people from other countries saying how well their system works, yet why can it not work here? why to YOU say it will bankrupt the country when universal health care has yet to bankrupt any country that has it? you have given no proof that it will. why can you not address the figures i gave about the defense budget? why can you not give credence to what people from other countries have to say? does their opinion and there experience not matter because they are not american? or because you read one article about one hospital you are now an authority on the subject? their posts and my posts speak for themselves. we will not change your mind, but you have to admit that something is wrong and if we don't fix it now we will be in for a world of hurt later. you have to concede that point at least.
i believe in the freedom of speech, but in order for me to listen and pay attention you better know what you are talking about. the teabaggers' most vocal speakers are the stupidest 2% in the country. this has been proven time and again by video clips, photos, and newspaper articles. look at the "tea baggers" thread on this very message board. look at the signs they make, look at what they yell in the meetings, they have absolutely no clue. and as for november 2010, i welcome the challenges from the republicans. i welcome it, because your party has no ideas other than "NO NO NO!!" and do not think for one second the public does not know that. i can not wait for the ads to come out. its gonna be great. and as far as obama being a fraud, i feel sorry for you if you are in fact that cynical. can't you see that he is doing the best he can with what he has been given? i am sure mccain would have done a much better job......yeah right...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I agree our Healthcare system isnt perfect,but a complete Gov takeover is only going to make it worse. The GOV can't run shit right.They will only run it into the ground. It will lead to price controls and it will hamper innovation,competition,and choice and it will also lead to rationing and artificially high prices just look at at Social Sec, Medi-care,and Medi-caid.. They are all billions in the red. Obama says it will only cost a Trillion,but the CBO is saying it's going to cost more like 6 Trillion. All that will do is drive the cost up. And as far as the Ins companies go.I agree they need some GOV oversite no doubt. But Why doesn't Obama and the Dems support Tort reform ? Because the lawyers are some of their biggest contributors to their party. Let us buy across state lines is another example that will drive down the cost.
Really.. :roll:
You will be paying for your health care and for the health care of everyone else. There is no way to create universal health care without severely increasing taxes. Even though you would not be making a payment at the doctor’s office you would be making huge payments out of every pay day check you earn.
It is true that there are too many people who currently do not have access to care and it is an issue that must be addressed. However creating a government sponsored system which would allow politicians to severely handicap your doctor’s ability to provide you with the best treatment is clearly not the answer. When it comes to health care we cannot settle for mediocre.
As far as the tee partiers most vocal being the stupidest 2%... Just look wher you get your info from.. You get it from outlets that want to make them look as bad as the possibly can. So yeah of course they are going to show some people that might not be very sharp, But at least they are standidng up for something that they believe in. 90% of them and me believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.
Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS
this sounds familiar to me....i think i read this before....actually i did...right here.... http://www.mrcaction.org/550/statement.asp
nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right
Nice late...early morning catch gimmie.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes. So UHC in the US won't necessarily mean getting the same tax rate as us as our taxes also cover other things.
tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.
Heehee when I did my post-grad in England I got half my fees paid and a maintance grant from the Scottish students studying abroad fund
I love the UK and it's convuluted different countries
studying abroad?
at least we only have the 4 countries rules and stuff to worry about... the US has 50 different laws and regs covering each state.... its a bureaucratic nightmare... combine that with self assessment taxing and the need for many different forms of insurance paperwork to get a sprained ankle fixed i'm surprised people in the US have time to shoot students.
its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.
:P
....Rightfully so, it is a disgrace especially being the original poster.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
yes, i might be a "radical progressive" but that does not stop me from reading things from all sides...a friend emailed me that link a few weeks ago and as soon as i began to read his post i immediately recognized it...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Ahhh....the wonderfully productive "owned" has made it's appearance. Are you keeping score here?
You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.
The dialogue needs to continue. People need to stop taking a "side" and start reviewing the facts. But it won;t happen, hasn't even happened on this messageboard. So any change to Health Care that comes from this half assed effort will be a failure and take away any chance of a good system for some time by making people very skeptical of the entire process all over again. The dialogue on health care should have started when Obama started it, but a proposal shouldn't have been made until after the discussion was over.
Kids getting shot is a hilarious topic. Next let's laugh about earthquakes.
its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.
Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?
A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"
Here doctors are considered well paid but compared to some of their American counter-parts it's nothing.
I object...leading the witnesses.
Judge ... "Sustained...counselor that was a really bullshit way to ask that question".
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."