cuz he was, wah wah, not nice. not a wife beater or racist, tho, like some other HOFers.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Philly I & II, 16
Denver 22
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,600
Big Papi had 18 HR & 48 RBI in only 89 games played at age 25. Age 26: 20 & 75 in 120 games. Age 27: 31 & 101 in 150 games (5th in MVP Vote) Age: 28: 41 & 139 in 159 games (4th in MVP Vote & made All Star team.
I think that's a little better then an average played and I only gave HR's & RBI stat. Plus, he was given the chance to play in more games and he produced.
Hmmm....I don’t see manfred urging leniency for bonds.
my whole thing is nobody knows for SURE about 99% of the players in the steroid era. I’m pretty sure piazza, pudge and bagwell all used...but they get a pass because they didn’t antagonize reporters. I have suspicions about rickey henderson, as well. Bonds had two newspaper reporters, full time for two years, and the federal government after him. I’ve read the feds spent $75M. no one else faced that kind of scrutiny, if they faced any at all.
Exactly: MOST did not know about what players did, or did not do. But, the reporters are the Gate keepers on who gets into the HOF. They have to be able to separate how the player played and not if they liked that player or not, to determine if they're HOFers'.
Also agree about the players you named getting a pass and Rickey Henderson. Though, I do consider them HOFer's.
Big Papi had 18 HR & 48 RBI in only 89 games played at age 25. Age 26: 20 & 75 in 120 games. Age 27: 31 & 101 in 150 games (5th in MVP Vote) Age: 28: 41 & 139 in 159 games (4th in MVP Vote & made All Star team.
I think that's a little better then an average played and I only gave HR's & RBI stat. Plus, he was given the chance to play in more games and he produced.
And you can't discount the effect of having Money Ramirez hitting either in front of him or behind him for many of those first years in Boston.
This weekend we rock Portland
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,600
I didnt look to see that he was born in Nov, so those ages are off by a year, adjusted. I take it back, he was for sure above average as a 28 year old, he was a top producer.
Check it out though....there is a season (2000) where he had 415 ABs and hit 10 homers and then the next season (2001) he has 303 ABs and somehow he becomes a big time home run hitter and hits 18.
Also....look at home he is after age 35, when hitters decline. He has 4 of his best 7 seasons out of 20 in the bigs. Who does that?
Do we KNOW for sure? No way, unless they admit to it we do not.
1 - 2006 - Age 30 - a homer every 2.7 games
2 - 2005 - Age 29 - 3.3
2 - 2004 - Age 28 - 3.6
3 - 2011 - Age 35 - 3.7
4 - 2012 - Age 36 - 3.9
5 - 2015 - Age 39 - 3.9
6 - 2016 - Age 40 - 3.9
24 - 2000 - 10 homers 130 games - 1 every 13 games (watch out...here come the roids)
25 - 2001 - 18 homers 89 games - 1 every 4.9 (damn - from 1 every 13 to 1 every 4.9 games? hold shit?! He discovered homers!)
26 - 2002 - 20 homers 125 games - 1 every 6.2
27 - 2003 - Red Sox - 31 homers 128 games - 1 every 4.1
28 - 2004 - 41 homers 150 games - 1 every 3.6
29 - 47/159 - 1 every 3.3
30 - 54/151 - 1 every 2.7
31 - 35/149 - 1 every 4.2
32 - 23/109 - 1 every 4.7
33 - 28/150 - 1 every 5.3
34 - 32/145 - 1 every 4.5
35 - 39/146 - 1 every 3.7
36- 23/90 - 1 every 3.9
37 - 30/137 - 1 every 4.5
38 - 35/142 - 1 every 4
39 - 37/146 - 1 every 3.9
40 - 38/151 - 1 every 3.9
I get it if you are a Big Papi fan.
I am fine with him being in the HoF -- and Cheater Bonds, Clemens, and whomever else.
But, I do think there is every reason to think that Big Papi was a roider.
I didnt look to see that he was born in Nov, so those ages are off by a year, adjusted. I take it back, he was for sure above average as a 28 year old, he was a top producer.
Check it out though....there is a season (2000) where he had 415 ABs and hit 10 homers and then the next season (2001) he has 303 ABs and somehow he becomes a big time home run hitter and hits 18.
Also....look at home he is after age 35, when hitters decline. He has 4 of his best 7 seasons out of 20 in the bigs. Who does that?
Do we KNOW for sure? No way, unless they admit to it we do not.
1 - 2006 - Age 30 - a homer every 2.7 games
2 - 2005 - Age 29 - 3.3
2 - 2004 - Age 28 - 3.6
3 - 2011 - Age 35 - 3.7
4 - 2012 - Age 36 - 3.9
5 - 2015 - Age 39 - 3.9
6 - 2016 - Age 40 - 3.9
24 - 2000 - 10 homers 130 games - 1 every 13 games (watch out...here come the roids)
25 - 2001 - 18 homers 89 games - 1 every 4.9 (damn - from 1 every 13 to 1 every 4.9 games? hold shit?! He discovered homers!)
26 - 2002 - 20 homers 125 games - 1 every 6.2
27 - 2003 - Red Sox - 31 homers 128 games - 1 every 4.1
28 - 2004 - 41 homers 150 games - 1 every 3.6
29 - 47/159 - 1 every 3.3
30 - 54/151 - 1 every 2.7
31 - 35/149 - 1 every 4.2
32 - 23/109 - 1 every 4.7
33 - 28/150 - 1 every 5.3
34 - 32/145 - 1 every 4.5
35 - 39/146 - 1 every 3.7
36- 23/90 - 1 every 3.9
37 - 30/137 - 1 every 4.5
38 - 35/142 - 1 every 4
39 - 37/146 - 1 every 3.9
40 - 38/151 - 1 every 3.9
I get it if you are a Big Papi fan.
I am fine with him being in the HoF -- and Cheater Bonds, Clemens, and whomever else.
But, I do think there is every reason to think that Big Papi was a roider.
As was Jeter. Talk about injury, lack thereof? Same-same. And Tiger. The whole fucking decade across the board was roided. Everyone was doing it. Romanowski bragged about his tackle box on 60 Minutes. Rampant. Pick and choose yours villains i supposes.
I didnt look to see that he was born in Nov, so those ages are off by a year, adjusted. I take it back, he was for sure above average as a 28 year old, he was a top producer.
Check it out though....there is a season (2000) where he had 415 ABs and hit 10 homers and then the next season (2001) he has 303 ABs and somehow he becomes a big time home run hitter and hits 18.
Also....look at home he is after age 35, when hitters decline. He has 4 of his best 7 seasons out of 20 in the bigs. Who does that?
Do we KNOW for sure? No way, unless they admit to it we do not.
1 - 2006 - Age 30 - a homer every 2.7 games
2 - 2005 - Age 29 - 3.3
2 - 2004 - Age 28 - 3.6
3 - 2011 - Age 35 - 3.7
4 - 2012 - Age 36 - 3.9
5 - 2015 - Age 39 - 3.9
6 - 2016 - Age 40 - 3.9
24 - 2000 - 10 homers 130 games - 1 every 13 games (watch out...here come the roids)
25 - 2001 - 18 homers 89 games - 1 every 4.9 (damn - from 1 every 13 to 1 every 4.9 games? hold shit?! He discovered homers!)
26 - 2002 - 20 homers 125 games - 1 every 6.2
27 - 2003 - Red Sox - 31 homers 128 games - 1 every 4.1
28 - 2004 - 41 homers 150 games - 1 every 3.6
29 - 47/159 - 1 every 3.3
30 - 54/151 - 1 every 2.7
31 - 35/149 - 1 every 4.2
32 - 23/109 - 1 every 4.7
33 - 28/150 - 1 every 5.3
34 - 32/145 - 1 every 4.5
35 - 39/146 - 1 every 3.7
36- 23/90 - 1 every 3.9
37 - 30/137 - 1 every 4.5
38 - 35/142 - 1 every 4
39 - 37/146 - 1 every 3.9
40 - 38/151 - 1 every 3.9
I get it if you are a Big Papi fan.
I am fine with him being in the HoF -- and Cheater Bonds, Clemens, and whomever else.
But, I do think there is every reason to think that Big Papi was a roider.
So you point to the single outlier season when he was just getting established in the majors and fine tuning his swing as the reason he must have been on steroids the rest of his career. And clearly he's the only player to have that happen. Cause Griffey's jump from 16 to 22 to 22 to 27 to 45, 40, 49, 56, 56, 48, 40 is just a hitter finding his swing, but Ortiz has to be roids. What's good for the goose...
This weekend we rock Portland
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,600
edited January 2021
No ties between Griffey and Roids...and Griffey put on some muscle, he was 18-19-20. Griffey also didn't have some of his best years at an age where almost everyone else loses it.
I get it, you are a Boston guy and like Big Papi. I'm a Griffey fan, Wob is a Fathead fan. We are all gonna stick up for our guys.....but in this I am the only one who is right!
No ties between Griffey and Roids...and Griffey put on some muscle, he was 18-19-20. Griffey also didn't have some of his best years at an age where almost everyone else loses it.
I get it, you are a Boston guy and like Big Papi. I'm a Griffey fan, Wob is a Fathead fan. We are all gonna stick up for our guys.....but in this I am the only one who is right!
sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.
Papi had stolen bases too. Two trick pony.
sloppi had roughly 3% of bonds’ total (17 vs. 514)
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Philly I & II, 16
Denver 22
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,600
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
@wobbie, are you paying attention to the farm team and the players in the pipes?
Ramos, Bishop, Luciano, Bart?
Some big bats.
Not paying a ton of attention. I know of Ramos and Bart (of course). I'll believe it when I see it. The Giants' "prospects" tend to disappoint. Our "can't miss" pick of 2006 ended up charged with murder. We've had luck with Bum, Cain, Lincecum and Crawford. Before that, you had to almost go back to Will the Thrill for a homegrown star. In the 80's the Giants had a guy (Rick Lancelotti) who consistently hit 40 HR/yr at AAA but never could stick in the bigs.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Philly I & II, 16
Denver 22
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,600
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
you know you're gonna suck when your opening day pitcher is kevin gausman.
who??
oh, THE kevin gausman.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Buster Posey….batting champ, MVP, ROY, comeback player of the year, 3x WS champ….is retiring.
walking away from $22M….the man has his priorities.
HOF?
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Buster Posey….batting champ, MVP, ROY, comeback player of the year, 3x WS champ….is retiring.
walking away from $22M….the man has his priorities.
HOF?
Many are saying he will be. I don't think he has the numbers. Thurman is not in and they have similar numbers and Thurman only played 10 years. Jorge Posada has better numbers but is more of a compiler. The 3 world series helps
Comments
Shows you what happens when you treat everyone like crap.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Age 26: 20 & 75 in 120 games.
Age 27: 31 & 101 in 150 games (5th in MVP Vote)
Age: 28: 41 & 139 in 159 games (4th in MVP Vote & made All Star team.
I think that's a little better then an average played and I only gave HR's & RBI stat. Plus, he was given the chance to play in more games and he produced.
Also agree about the players you named getting a pass and Rickey Henderson. Though, I do consider them HOFer's.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
And clearly he's the only player to have that happen. Cause Griffey's jump from 16 to 22 to 22 to 27 to 45, 40, 49, 56, 56, 48, 40 is just a hitter finding his swing, but Ortiz has to be roids.
What's good for the goose...
Griffey also didn't have some of his best years at an age where almost everyone else loses it.
I get it, you are a Boston guy and like Big Papi.
I'm a Griffey fan, Wob is a Fathead fan.
We are all gonna stick up for our guys.....but in this I am the only one who is right!
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
sloppi had roughly 3% of bonds’ total (17 vs. 514)
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Bonds didn't try that one.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Ramos, Bishop, Luciano, Bart?
Some big bats.
Not paying a ton of attention. I know of Ramos and Bart (of course). I'll believe it when I see it. The Giants' "prospects" tend to disappoint. Our "can't miss" pick of 2006 ended up charged with murder. We've had luck with Bum, Cain, Lincecum and Crawford. Before that, you had to almost go back to Will the Thrill for a homegrown star. In the 80's the Giants had a guy (Rick Lancelotti) who consistently hit 40 HR/yr at AAA but never could stick in the bigs.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
no, dope, he homered for the braves today.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
probably just put the kiss of death on ‘em...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Buster Posey….batting champ, MVP, ROY, comeback player of the year, 3x WS champ….is retiring.
walking away from $22M….the man has his priorities.
HOF?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14