I wish people would stop blaming Courtney for Kurt's death

smithnic

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Death-Murder ... 458&sr=1-5


read this

facepollution

left the porch wrote:

the biggest one has to be, why were there no prints on a gun used in a suicide?

Apparently there were, but they were illegible, which is not uncommon for prints on firearms:

http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investiga ... ints.shtml

In fact read all the links on this page:

http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investiga ... ndex.shtml

They answer a lot of questions, and kind of prove my point that it's easy to put a convincing argument forward for pretty much anything.

left the porch

Apparently there were, but they were illegible, which is not uncommon for prints on firearms:

Also not uncommon when wiping the prints off the gun. My uncle was a cop for thirty years and weve talked about this.

Look bottom line is there will always be questions and people like me who think there is more to this than meets the eye. Like any conspiracy, you have people on each side saying they "know" the truth, Kennedy's assassination, 9/11 etc. And believe me, it's not like I would be happier if I knew she killed him, it still sucks, no matter how it happened. And I'm not looking to be convinced either way, I'm not a judge, just a guy with a theory. And you're right that I don't like Courtney, I really think she's a fucking parasite, but in no way does that make her a murderer.I think she is.

facepollution

left the porch wrote:

Also not uncommon when wiping the prints off the gun. My uncle was a cop for thirty years and weve talked about this.

Well that's not proof is it? You said there were no prints, when in fact there were, they were just smudged, which easily could have happened as they pulled the gun from his hands. That is not evidence, it's a tenuous attempt to back up a theory that otherwise doesn't have any factual grounding.

left the porch wrote:

Look bottom line is there will always be questions and people like me who think there is more to this than meets the eye. Like any conspiracy, you have people on each side saying they "know" the truth, Kennedy's assassination, 9/11 etc. And believe me, it's not like I would be happier if I knew she killed him, it still sucks, no matter how it happened. And I'm not looking to be convinced either way, I'm not a judge, just a guy with a theory. And you're right that I don't like Courtney, I really think she's a fucking parasite, but in no way does that make her a murderer.I think she is.

Yeah but based on what? That is the question you should be asking yourself. Are you someone who is easily convinced of things, even when there is no hard factual evidence? Personally I need convincing. I'm not trying to convince you either way, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to form such a strong opinion based purely on conjecture. You have no way of substantiating the accuracy, integrity or interpretation of Tom Grant's evidence and theories, yet you are absolutely convinced. The reason I think you are convinced is because either consciously or sub-consciously, your hate for Courtney makes you want to blame her.

Finally, imagine for a moment that you are wrong and he did just plain commit suicide. How awful is it to accuse a grieving woman of playing a part in her husband's death? I don't think anyone would deserve that, no matter how she might have handled Kurt's business over the years.

Ledbetterman10

I blame Courtney only for her music.

catefrances

Pepe Silvia wrote:

...and let's not forget in rome he supposedly tried to kill himself with the date rape drug, which was courtneys and even reported a few days before that she used them frequently, and champagne

perhaps he woke up and didnt have the energy to leave his room in search of a more potent way to kill himself, so he used what was on hand??? perhaps it was just a half hearted attempt.

left the porch

catefrances wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

...and let's not forget in rome he supposedly tried to kill himself with the date rape drug, which was courtneys and even reported a few days before that she used them frequently, and champagne

perhaps he woke up and didnt have the energy to leave his room in search of a more potent way to kill himself, so he used what was on hand??? perhaps it was just a half hearted attempt.

And perhaps she tried to kill him.

catefrances

left the porch wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

...and let's not forget in rome he supposedly tried to kill himself with the date rape drug, which was courtneys and even reported a few days before that she used them frequently, and champagne

perhaps he woke up and didnt have the energy to leave his room in search of a more potent way to kill himself, so he used what was on hand??? perhaps it was just a half hearted attempt.

And perhaps she tried to kill him.

perhaps she shouldve smothered him with a pillow. though that would have left signs of petechial haemorraging. and we cant have concrete evidence of foul play in a suicide can we now?? :roll:

left the porch

Nope.

Pepe Silvia

facepollution wrote:

left the porch wrote:

the biggest one has to be, why were there no prints on a gun used in a suicide?

Apparently there were, but they were illegible, which is not uncommon for prints on firearms:

http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investiga ... ints.shtml

In fact read all the links on this page:

http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investiga ... ndex.shtml

They answer a lot of questions, and kind of prove my point that it's easy to put a convincing argument forward for pretty much anything.

maybe, but you'd think if you bought a shotgun recently, fully loaded it and shot it...what are the odds there are NO good prints on it? people touched it to make it, ship it, unpack it, stock it, show it, sell it, carry it, load it, use it.....and no one left a clean print anywhere on the gun?

Pepe Silvia

catefrances wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

...and let's not forget in rome he supposedly tried to kill himself with the date rape drug, which was courtneys and even reported a few days before that she used them frequently, and champagne

perhaps he woke up and didnt have the energy to leave his room in search of a more potent way to kill himself, so he used what was on hand??? perhaps it was just a half hearted attempt.

perhaps, still doesn't explain why she claims she woke up at 3-4am and found him unresponsive with his nose bleeding and waited until 6:30 to call for help....

and how does your nose bleed from taking tranquilizers and champagne?

facepollution

Pepe Silvia wrote:

maybe, but you'd think if you bought a shotgun recently, fully loaded it and shot it...what are the odds there are NO good prints on it? people touched it to make it, ship it, unpack it, stock it, show it, sell it, carry it, load it, use it.....and no one left a clean print anywhere on the gun?

Read the links I posted.

"Murder theorists want you to believe that, after someone killed Kurt, they magically saw the fingerprints and wiped off all but four of them . Most finger prints cannot be seen by the naked eye so how could anyone tell if they were legible or illegible? The most likely source of these four prints were the police had to pry the shotgun from Kurt's hands. (2) Another question, if someone placed the gun in Kurt's hands, how could they make him grip the shotgun after he died?"

"Also other factors can affect the longevity of prints or the recovery of prints. Two factors are the climate of the green house, and the gun was located between Kurt's legs for several days"

"More often than not police dust with powder, which probably destroys 50% of viable prints left on a weapon. Also "mishandling" of a weapon destroys even more prints."

"Fingerprints are made of only a trace amount of oil, 98 or 99 percent of fingerprints are composed of water. Plus amino acids, proteins, polypeptides and salts. Though prints can last up 40 years on unfinished wood, stocks of guns are usually finished."

Prints from other people may have been wiped off by the inside of the bag or case the gun was stored in.

catefrances

Pepe Silvia wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

...and let's not forget in rome he supposedly tried to kill himself with the date rape drug, which was courtneys and even reported a few days before that she used them frequently, and champagne

perhaps he woke up and didnt have the energy to leave his room in search of a more potent way to kill himself, so he used what was on hand??? perhaps it was just a half hearted attempt.

perhaps, still doesn't explain why she claims she woke up at 3-4am and found him unresponsive with his nose bleeding and waited until 6:30 to call for help....

and how does your nose bleed from taking tranquilizers and champagne?

maybe he fell off the bed in a drunken/drugged stupor and smacked it on the floor. *shrugs*

Pepe Silvia

facepollution wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

maybe, but you'd think if you bought a shotgun recently, fully loaded it and shot it...what are the odds there are NO good prints on it? people touched it to make it, ship it, unpack it, stock it, show it, sell it, carry it, load it, use it.....and no one left a clean print anywhere on the gun?

Read the links I posted.

"Murder theorists want you to believe that, after someone killed Kurt, they magically saw the fingerprints and wiped off all but four of them . Most finger prints cannot be seen by the naked eye so how could anyone tell if they were legible or illegible? The most likely source of these four prints were the police had to pry the shotgun from Kurt's hands. (2) Another question, if someone placed the gun in Kurt's hands, how could they make him grip the shotgun after he died?"

"Also other factors can affect the longevity of prints or the recovery of prints. Two factors are the climate of the green house, and the gun was located between Kurt's legs for several days"

"More often than not police dust with powder, which probably destroys 50% of viable prints left on a weapon. Also "mishandling" of a weapon destroys even more prints."

"Fingerprints are made of only a trace amount of oil, 98 or 99 percent of fingerprints are composed of water. Plus amino acids, proteins, polypeptides and salts. Though prints can last up 40 years on unfinished wood, stocks of guns are usually finished."

Prints from other people may have been wiped off by the inside of the bag or case the gun was stored in.

those are some good points.

although, if they thought it was a suicide from the start i wonder how thorough they were with it all.

also, i don't think it would be too difficult to put a gun in someone's hands you just shot or someone who just shot a large amount of heroin, when someone nods off you can easily place a gun in their hand and move their arm with them still out of it

Pepe Silvia

catefrances wrote:

maybe he fell off the bed in a drunken/drugged stupor and smacked it on the floor. *shrugs*

still doesn't explain why she took 2 1/2-3 1/2 hours to call for help....

let me guess, she was hoping he'd come out of it and not have to worry about the press?

facepollution

Pepe Silvia wrote:

those are some good points.

although, if they thought it was a suicide from the start i wonder how thorough they were with it all.

Hmm, one of the biggest rock stars on the planet is found dead, don't you think they would be pretty thorough with their investigation? The implication is that a lot of people didn't do their jobs properly - and the factual evidence just doesn't support it.

Pepe Silvia wrote:

also, i don't think it would be too difficult to put a gun in someone's hands you just shot or someone who just shot a large amount of heroin, when someone nods off you can easily place a gun in their hand and move their arm with them still out of it

Yeah but you couldn't make them grip it once they were dead. Obviously there would have been shot marks and blood spatter on the walls corresponding to the position Kurt was (standing/sitting) in when the gun was fired. I'm not sure you can make someone stand there, no matter how high they are, place a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger without them struggling at all. Presumably the blood spatter was consistent with the typical position one would have to be in to pull the trigger themselves.

catefrances

Pepe Silvia wrote:

catefrances wrote:

maybe he fell off the bed in a drunken/drugged stupor and smacked it on the floor. *shrugs*

still doesn't explain why she took 2 1/2-3 1/2 hours to call for help....

let me guess, she was hoping he'd come out of it and not have to worry about the press?

yes im sure the press was her first concern. :roll: perhaps she thought she could handle it cause shed done so before... but when her husband didnt respond like he had before she decided to get professional help. being a junkie herself im sure she allowed more leeway in situations such as this than a person who had never dealt with drugs or junkies. theres every chance kurt was compis enough to deter his wife from seeking help and perhaps she deferred to him in this until it got too much for them both to handle.

mawfordinks

I'm the original poster of this article. Can i say how fucking disgusted I am by a large majority of you who still blame Courtney. Yes she is not the most likeable person on Earth. But she did lose a husband and she did have an infant now with no father. I believe that if any Pearl Jam members were to see your vile replies they wouldn't want you as fans.

locked

you know this debate facinates me..

The "Justice for Kurt" site has audio of Courtney saying there was a second suicide note on her bedroom pillow, yet we never heard about it...press has never reported its contents??

and NOW someone has supposedly stolen the original suicide note... (coincidence)...

Then I look to his bandmates.. who seem to support the suicide theory...

Yet Ted Kennedy told the press he didn't beleive either of his brother's assasinations were plots...

Its a riddle for sure..

facepollution

locked wrote:

The "Justice for Kurt" site has audio of Courtney saying there was a second suicide note on her bedroom pillow, yet we never heard about it...press has never reported its contents??

I heard about it quite a long time ago. I don't think Courtney has ever revealed the contents, so I guess there's nothing to report.

locked wrote:

and NOW someone has supposedly stolen the original suicide note... (coincidence)...

Looking at the crazy life Courtney Love leads and the amount of hangers-on that she seems to attract, nothing would surprise me.

locked wrote:

Then I look to his bandmates.. who seem to support the suicide theory...

Funny that... obviously they're less intelligent than the people who've spent an hour reading a website and come to a foregone conclusion