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I wish people would stop blaming Courtney for Kurt's death

mawfordinksmawfordinks Posts: 65
edited February 2010 in Other Music
Ok, Courtney Love may not be the most likeable person on Earth. But everytime I look for Nirvana on the internet, all I see is Courtney killed Kurt.
There are even dedicated websites- but there is NO EVIDENCE.
Kurt killed himself. Tragic I know but that is what happened. It must hurt not only Courtney but her daughter too. This bullshit has to stop.
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  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    Ever seen Kurt and Courtney the documentary? Pretty convincing to me. I totally believe she was involved in his death. There is lot's of evidence in the movie, and some of it is just common sense. The dust hadn't even settled in Kurt's urn and Courtney was at the Oscars, getting boob jobs, and all of a sudden she wasn't punk rock anymore. Courtney Love is a douchebag, she is the epitome of an attention junkie, and if Kurt could see what has happened to his legacy since he was murdered by that bitch, (i.e. his avatar singing Bon Jovi songs on Guitar Hero, the publication of his private diaries, etc.) I'm sure he would be disgusted. Her own parents think she's capable of anything to get what she wants. The murder of a suicidal depressed and fucked up on junk, was not such a stretch.

    And if anyone needs further confirmation on what kind of person Courtney is just ask Frances, Kurt's daughter, who has gone to live with his family instead of psycho slut Courtney. I bet Frances believe's she was a part of his death too. Maybe one day the truth will come out. Here's hoping.
  • CantKeepMeHereCantKeepMeHere Posts: 2,177
    left the porch wrote:
    Ever seen Kurt and Courtney the documentary? Pretty convincing to me. I totally believe she was involved in his death. There is lot's of evidence in the movie, and some of it is just common sense. The dust hadn't even settled in Kurt's urn and Courtney was at the Oscars, getting boob jobs, and all of a sudden she wasn't punk rock anymore. Courtney Love is a douchebag, she is the epitome of an attention junkie, and if Kurt could see what has happened to his legacy since he was murdered by that bitch, (i.e. his avatar singing Bon Jovi songs on Guitar Hero, the publication of his private diaries, etc.) I'm sure he would be disgusted. Her own parents think she's capable of anything to get what she wants. The murder of a suicidal depressed and fucked up on junk, was not such a stretch.

    And if anyone needs further confirmation on what kind of person Courtney is just ask Frances, Kurt's daughter, who has gone to live with his family instead of psycho slut Courtney. I bet Frances believe's she was a part of his death too. Maybe one day the truth will come out. Here's hoping.

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  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    left the porch wrote:
    Ever seen Kurt and Courtney the documentary? Pretty convincing to me. I totally believe she was involved in his death. There is lot's of evidence in the movie, and some of it is just common sense. The dust hadn't even settled in Kurt's urn and Courtney was at the Oscars, getting boob jobs, and all of a sudden she wasn't punk rock anymore. Courtney Love is a douchebag, she is the epitome of an attention junkie, and if Kurt could see what has happened to his legacy since he was murdered by that bitch, (i.e. his avatar singing Bon Jovi songs on Guitar Hero, the publication of his private diaries, etc.) I'm sure he would be disgusted. Her own parents think she's capable of anything to get what she wants. The murder of a suicidal depressed and fucked up on junk, was not such a stretch.

    And if anyone needs further confirmation on what kind of person Courtney is just ask Frances, Kurt's daughter, who has gone to live with his family instead of psycho slut Courtney. I bet Frances believe's she was a part of his death too. Maybe one day the truth will come out. Here's hoping.
    We haven't moved on have we? Trial by documentary. It's thoughts like this that had people burned for withcraft because they had a crooked nose or a black cat.

    I read Heavier Than Heaven his biography. He was an unhappy guy before anyone even heard of him. He didn't have a very happy childhood, add to that he was a mega drug fiend and you have a clue to what happened.
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    Just my opinion, and I guess I should've made sure to put that in there. And no, I'm not alone in this thinking. What does moving on have to do with anything? The OJ murders happened before Kurt's death, does that mean he's any less guilty even though years have gone by? Just because it happened years ago, dosen't mean people can't have their theories. And that's all I was trying to say. In my opinion, she was behind his death, she may not have pulled the trigger, but she paid someone to do it. I think that it was Kurt's friend, the one 'who likes all our pretty songs,' and 'likes to shoot his guns.' His name is Dylan I think and he lived in Kurt's shadow. I think he was always jealous of Kurt and it became much worse once he was a star. Courtney was on the way out and so was he. Who did Courtney ask to take the private investigator for a search of the house? Dylan. And what room was the only one they didn't search? The room above the garage where he was found dead of an apparent self inflicted gunshot wound. The case was handled like a suicide from the start, and therefore was open and shut. The possibility of homicide was never investigated. Then there's the note, the divorce paper's, the Lexus, and a whole bunch of other question marks surrounding the whole thing.
    I have also read Heavier than Heaven, and I do think he was depressed as shit, but enough to blow his own head off? Maybe though, if I was married to Courtney, I'd want to kill myself too.
    Remember there is always two sides to every story, and I was just airing mine. Opinions are like onions, some people think they are delicious, and some people think they taste like shit.
  • DeLukinDeLukin Posts: 2,757
    Scumball? Yes. Murderer? I doubt it. Kurt had enough serious problems that he didn't need Courtney to do 'it' for him. I think his untimely demise was inevitable...
    I smile, but who am I kidding...
  • peacegirlpeacegirl Posts: 841
    I have seen the Kurt & Courtney documentary and read many biographies on Kurt yet I'm not convinced she is to blame but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't think this question will ever stop being asked.
  • dcfaithfuldcfaithful Posts: 13,076
    All we can hope for is that sooner or later people will stop giving Courtney love the time of day and she'll eventually fade away into everyday life leaving it ups to us to forget about her...which I imagine wouldn't be too hard anyways.
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  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    dcfaithful wrote:
    All we can hope for is that sooner or later people will stop giving Courtney love the time of day and she'll eventually fade away into everyday life leaving it ups to us to forget about her...which I imagine wouldn't be too hard anyways.

    Amen to that.
  • youngsteryoungster Boston Posts: 6,576
    left the porch wrote:
    I think that it was Kurt's friend, the one 'who likes all our pretty songs,' and 'likes to shoot his guns.' His name is Dylan I think and he lived in Kurt's shadow. I think he was always jealous of Kurt and it became much worse once he was a star.


    Was that the dude dancing onstage at the Live At Reading DVD?
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

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  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    cropduster82 wrote:
    left the porch wrote:
    I think that it was Kurt's friend, the one 'who likes all our pretty songs,' and 'likes to shoot his guns.' His name is Dylan I think and he lived in Kurt's shadow. I think he was always jealous of Kurt and it became much worse once he was a star.


    Was that the dude dancing onstage at the Live At Reading DVD?

    I don't know, I haven't seen it yet.

    He looks like Charlie Manson.
  • blended1blended1 Posts: 19
    Does it really matter Kurt is dead ! and nthing can bring him back
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    How do you plot to murder someone when they go awol?! People need to get a life, and seperate their feelings about someone they don't like, from a completely baseless claim by some guy who may also just be in it for the money.
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    i know that kurt most likely killed himself, but the documentary has some facinating and disturbing evidence. I think another part of the puzzle is, that Kurt was the most important musician of his generation. His impact in music is hard to overstate. There were millions of teens who felt this guy was tapping to their deepest thoughts and fears, and his death in many ways almost seemed to reinforce everything we all believed, ie that things are really that bad, and that heroes let you down or die or whatever. Its hard to really describe or put into words. Especially on this forum, which has often be virulently anti Nirvana and anti kurt. But his death sort of permeated that whole era. Even someone like me, who was pretty young when it all happened, 10 when he died, but I could feel the importance of his death. It permeated the air, like some sickness and somehow a kid like me picked up on it.

    Its not just spread by the documentary. Sane people like Lanegan or kim gordon have both suggested they dont believe the suicide theory. Its one thing for loons to claim it, its another for legendary musicians to support the conspiracy theory.
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    facepollution wrote:
    How do you plot to murder someone when they go awol?! People need to get a life, and seperate their feelings about someone they don't like, from a completely baseless claim by some guy who may also just be in it for the money.

    How is it a baseless claim? And no one who made that film was in it for the money, in fact the PI investigating the case went broke trying to get the case re-opened. The guy who made the film didn't make much from the movie, maybe enough to break even. Like I said earlier, this is just what I think, and I'm far from alone. Since when did having an opinion mean I need to "get a life." And the fact I don't like Courtney has a lot to do with the fact I think she was behind Kurt's death, so this has nothing to do with just having a hate on for her.

    Something that always made me question suicide was how he did it? Wouldn't a junkie just shoot himself up with enough heroin and go out peacefully? And if you wanted to use a gun why use a shotgun? He had the money and the means to get whatever he wanted, and he chose a gun that would be hard to operate with the barrel in his mouth, and being as high as he was. Just dosen't make any sense.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    left the porch wrote:
    How is it a baseless claim? And no one who made that film was in it for the money, in fact the PI investigating the case went broke trying to get the case re-opened. The guy who made the film didn't make much from the movie, maybe enough to break even. Like I said earlier, this is just what I think, and I'm far from alone. Since when did having an opinion mean I need to "get a life." And the fact I don't like Courtney has a lot to do with the fact I think she was behind Kurt's death, so this has nothing to do with just having a hate on for her.

    It's baseless because it's all circumstantial. I have no reason to trust the PI investigating or Nick Broomfield. I've lived long enough to know that it's easy to give two completely different, yet equally convincing sides to any story.
    left the porch wrote:
    Wouldn't a junkie just shoot himself up with enough heroin and go out peacefully?

    Well that's just you supposing. Statistically speaking, men typically use far more final and effective methods of killing themselves, a drug overdose isn't guaranteed to work.
    left the porch wrote:
    And if you wanted to use a gun why use a shotgun? He had the money and the means to get whatever he wanted, and he chose a gun that would be hard to operate with the barrel in his mouth, and being as high as he was. Just dosen't make any sense.

    Um yeah it does make perfect sense. Kurt went awol, he didn't want people to find him, so he probably used whatever he happened to have at home - a shot gun.

    I've said this a million times before, but why do people find it so hard to believe that a manic depressive drug addict who couldn't handle fame, just wanted out?

    Why would anyone take Tom Grant's word as gospel? He openly admitted that he took a disliking to Courtney, what's to say he hasn't made anything up?

    There's also the fact that Courtney saved Kurt's life on a number of occassions, including administering an adrenaline shot to the heart Pulp Fiction style. Why not just let him die on any one of those occassions?

    You also have to question, if she really had anything to do with it, why would she force him into rehab in LA, and how would she or anyone working for her, have known where he would have been after he went awol?
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    facepollution wrote:
    left the porch wrote:
    How is it a baseless claim? And no one who made that film was in it for the money, in fact the PI investigating the case went broke trying to get the case re-opened. The guy who made the film didn't make much from the movie, maybe enough to break even. Like I said earlier, this is just what I think, and I'm far from alone. Since when did having an opinion mean I need to "get a life." And the fact I don't like Courtney has a lot to do with the fact I think she was behind Kurt's death, so this has nothing to do with just having a hate on for her.

    It's baseless because it's all circumstantial. I have no reason to trust the PI investigating or Nick Broomfield. I've lived long enough to know that it's easy to give two completely different, yet equally convincing sides to any story.
    left the porch wrote:
    Wouldn't a junkie just shoot himself up with enough heroin and go out peacefully?

    Well that's just you supposing. Statistically speaking, men typically use far more final and effective methods of killing themselves, a drug overdose isn't guaranteed to work.
    left the porch wrote:
    And if you wanted to use a gun why use a shotgun? He had the money and the means to get whatever he wanted, and he chose a gun that would be hard to operate with the barrel in his mouth, and being as high as he was. Just dosen't make any sense.

    Um yeah it does make perfect sense. Kurt went awol, he didn't want people to find him, so he probably used whatever he happened to have at home - a shot gun.

    I've said this a million times before, but why do people find it so hard to believe that a manic depressive drug addict who couldn't handle fame, just wanted out?

    Why would anyone take Tom Grant's word as gospel? He openly admitted that he took a disliking to Courtney, what's to say he hasn't made anything up?

    There's also the fact that Courtney saved Kurt's life on a number of occassions, including administering an adrenaline shot to the heart Pulp Fiction style. Why not just let him die on any one of those occassions?

    You also have to question, if she really had anything to do with it, why would she force him into rehab in LA, and how would she or anyone working for her, have known where he would have been after he went awol?

    Is that you Courtney?
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    Its not just spread by the documentary. Sane people like Lanegan or kim gordon have both suggested they dont believe the suicide theory. Its one thing for loons to claim it, its another for legendary musicians to support the conspiracy theory.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it mister.
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    musicismylife78 wrote:

    Its not just spread by the documentary. Sane people like Lanegan or kim gordon have both suggested they dont believe the suicide theory. Its one thing for loons to claim it, its another for legendary musicians to support the conspiracy theory.
    Most of my favourite musicians are loons....
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    me too.
    courtney says some fucked up stuff and does some stupid things(as many people do)but kill her husband???.. get real people.. it didnt happen.
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  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    left the porch wrote:
    Is that you Courtney?

    Great come back :roll:
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    facepollution wrote:
    left the porch wrote:
    Is that you Courtney?

    Great come back :roll:

    I thought so. :P
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    catefrances wrote:
    me too.
    courtney says some fucked up stuff and does some stupid things(as many people do)but kill her husband???.. get real people.. it didnt happen.

    Wow were you there? Pretty self assured, but the fact remains, there is questions and what I consider reasonable doubt surrounding this case. Like I said earlier, Courtney is BEYOND fucked up to the point her own daughter petitioned the court to let her go live with Kurt's family. She is a talentless, attention addict who has become nothin but a scar on the legacy of Nirvana and Kurt specifically.

    I would never go as far as saying I KNOW she was involved, I THINK she was. And so do a lot of other people, including people who know her personally or have met her, like ex boyfriends before she was famous and her own father, although he dosen't seem to have much credibility, but it definitely speaks to the character of the whole 'Love' family.

    Dave Grohl and Krist Novaselic both hate her guts and that speaks volumes. Maybe not that she is a muderer, but that she IS a rotten human being.
  • LukinFanLukinFan Florida Posts: 29,070
    is this the doc that you all are talking about:

    http://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Michael ... B000AYEL10
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  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Crazy, but I don't think she was talentless... Just my $0.02
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Jack_C_GregoryJack_C_Gregory Posts: 540
    LukinFan wrote:
    is this the doc that you all are talking about:

    http://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Michael ... B000AYEL10

    This is the doc:

    http://www.amazon.com/Kurt-Courtney-Cob ... 813&sr=1-1
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    i don't know if she did it, had it done or not and we will probably never know but a few things are odd to me

    mostly how can someone buy a shotgun, not just put 1 shell in but fully load it (which means pumping it a lot) putting the gun in your mouth, pulling the trigger....and not leave a single finger print anywhere on the entire gun!? that just seems next to impossible without gloves on or something, which he wasn't wearing.

    also, courtney lied about talking to him. he left a rehab and went missing for a few days then was found dead...she said she never spoke to him but her hotel records shows she was on the phone with him for over an hour before he left the rehab. why lie about it?

    he was looking into a divorce and they had a prenuptial agreement and this was before her band, hole, really broke

    his credit card was used for a few days after he was dead but she never had anyone look into it

    they were both junkies and if any of you know a real junkie they don't think too rationally. i can see her panicking over the divorce and not getting anything and doing it or having it done. especially with how much heroin was in his system, which doctors say wouldve fucked him up too much to pull the trigger, it could easily be seen he was shot up with a large amount and when he was nodding out someone shooting him, wiping the prints off the gun and leaving
    don't compete; coexist

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  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    facepollution wrote:
    left the porch wrote:
    And if you wanted to use a gun why use a shotgun? He had the money and the means to get whatever he wanted, and he chose a gun that would be hard to operate with the barrel in his mouth, and being as high as he was. Just dosen't make any sense.
    Um yeah it does make perfect sense. Kurt went awol, he didn't want people to find him, so he probably used whatever he happened to have at home - a shot gun.

    um no, actually it doesn't because the shot gun was purchased AFTER he went awol.

    i don't own any guns, is there a difference in waiting limits for hand guns and shot guns? i could be wrong but i think it may be easier to buy something like a rifle which could be used to hunt than to buy a hand gun, if that's the case that would explain why he would buy a shot gun and not something else. also, if the point is to kill yourself it seems like a shot gun would work better than 1 bullet and what if you aim a little too much to the side and just really fuck yourself up instead of killing yourself?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    um no, actually it doesn't because the shot gun was purchased AFTER he went awol.

    i don't own any guns, is there a difference in waiting limits for hand guns and shot guns? i could be wrong but i think it may be easier to buy something like a rifle which could be used to hunt than to buy a hand gun, if that's the case that would explain why he would buy a shot gun and not something else. also, if the point is to kill yourself it seems like a shot gun would work better than 1 bullet and what if you aim a little too much to the side and just really fuck yourself up instead of killing yourself?

    Fair enough, it's been quite a while since I watched the documentary or read up on it. However, you do have to ask the question why was he buying it in the first place? I don't think he was planning the perfect suicide, I don't think logic really plays such a part in these types of situation at all.

    My point remains, that because people don't like Courtney, they find it easier to believe that she could have had something to do with his death. People kind of forget that she was married to a hopless addict, who I'm sure caused her and his family a lot of pain and grief.

    Just because Courtney isn't deemed particularly credible, doesn't automatically make Tom Grant's theory fact. When you think about it, all this circumstantial evidence is no more credible than the evidence used to convict the West Memphis Three. I find it farcical that people believe they are making a completely unbiased assessment of the evidence, when they all so clearly detest Courtney. I completely understand why people don't like her, she's obnoxious to the extreme, but she's lead a fucked up life since birth, and unfortuantely she's never really gotten herself sorted.
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    facepollution wrote:
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    um no, actually it doesn't because the shot gun was purchased AFTER he went awol.

    i don't own any guns, is there a difference in waiting limits for hand guns and shot guns? i could be wrong but i think it may be easier to buy something like a rifle which could be used to hunt than to buy a hand gun, if that's the case that would explain why he would buy a shot gun and not something else. also, if the point is to kill yourself it seems like a shot gun would work better than 1 bullet and what if you aim a little too much to the side and just really fuck yourself up instead of killing yourself?

    Fair enough, it's been quite a while since I watched the documentary or read up on it. However, you do have to ask the question why was he buying it in the first place? I don't think he was planning the perfect suicide, I don't think logic really plays such a part in these types of situation at all.

    My point remains, that because people don't like Courtney, they find it easier to believe that she could have had something to do with his death. People kind of forget that she was married to a hopless addict, who I'm sure caused her and his family a lot of pain and grief.

    Just because Courtney isn't deemed particularly credible, doesn't automatically make Tom Grant's theory fact. When you think about it, all this circumstantial evidence is no more credible than the evidence used to convict the West Memphis Three. I find it farcical that people believe they are making a completely unbiased assessment of the evidence, when they all so clearly detest Courtney. I completely understand why people don't like her, she's obnoxious to the extreme, but she's lead a fucked up life since birth, and unfortuantely she's never really gotten herself sorted.

    100% agreed. I hate Courtney Love. I did as soon as I saw her and heard about her history, and then how quick the marriage took place, just made her seem like a gold digging leech. And then when Kurt died I heard her speech that day and I believed her and I actually felt sorry for her. And then she revealed her true colours. Turns out that was just another Oscar worthy performance that day in Seattle where the people who loved Kurt's music and what he stood for fell for it hook line and sinker. She's not a musician, she KNOWS musicians who write songs for her sorry ass. Billy Corgan I'm talking to you. She's a manipulator and an actress and not a very good one. Oh yeah she played a heroin addict to a t, she had lot's of experience. And she is selling Kurt and Nirvana to the highest bidder, which is just sickening. So the fact that I can't stand her or anything she's done, really dosen't affect the way I feel about her involvement/non-involvement in Kurt's death. The fact that I think she's capable of ANYTHING does. Murder really dosen't seem like such a stretch. But, this is just my opinion. I really hate always having to say that.
  • left the porchleft the porch Posts: 504
    People kind of forget that she was married to a hopless addict, who I'm sure caused her and his family a lot of pain and grief.

    SHE WAS AN ADDICT TOO! SHE DID HEROIN WHILE SHE WAS PREGNANT!!!!
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