Come on man, yah im serious. Read the book. You seem to be someone of smart intel. I read it. Got a lot of information. If you've read it, I would love to hear your objections.
Well I'm probably not going to read it, at least any time soon. I've got a big pile of books to work through already. From the comment you posted I think I have a sense of what it's going to say, but how about you provide a summary and I'll respond.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
all i know, is that if my favorite band that i've loved since i was 12, ever play in Israel while things remain the same, i will see that as them offering support of Israels illegal, brutal occupation and oppression against the Palestinian people.
and i will never forgive them.
rocking in the free world my ass.
i hope that you are just as mad as them playing in the USA.
"80% of Israelis supported the massacare in Gaza in January when 1400 people were murdered, and considered it a job well done. until people from Israel begin to oppose their own government's oppressive policies, this will never end."
Dear Angel, do you have a link to this poll that shows that 80% of aLL Israelis supported this. i have a distrust of pollls so i just want to review the poll.
Pearl Jam should most certainly play in Israel. Especially if they are going to play in China, but that's another issue. In terms of Israel itself, not playing there would sort of presume that all Israelis are on board with what their government does, and that they are all oblivious to the plight of Palestinians. PJ playing in Israel is no more an endorsement of oppressing the Palestinians than playing in China would be an endorsement of totalitarianism and terrible environmental policies.
"80% of Israelis supported the massacare in Gaza in January when 1400 people were murdered, and considered it a job well done. until people from Israel begin to oppose their own government's oppressive policies, this will never end."
Dear Angel, do you have a link to this poll that shows that 80% of aLL Israelis supported this. i have a distrust of pollls so i just want to review the poll.
I'd also add that these poll results would VERY MUCH depend on how the relevant question was worded. If you asked people whether they "support a given military action", I suspect you'd get a very different response as compared to "how do you feel about civilians dying in Gaza?"
i dont get why u people dont think the fans.....u judge people from nationality..dont get it..pearl jam dont play israel couse of what israel goverment does...so what that means???that the fans of israel are bad people,they are evil?theyshould stop being a fan?
so why they play in japan???they fuckin bomb pearl harborn!!!!and fuckin germany???they start 2nd world war!!!!!come on...
LOL then why would they play in the states? they bombed Japan!
I think most are referring to the current state of affairs in the world.
Okay, lets face it. they should all just stick to Canada.
i dont get why u people dont think the fans.....u judge people from nationality..dont get it..pearl jam dont play israel couse of what israel goverment does...so what that means???that the fans of israel are bad people,they are evil?theyshould stop being a fan?
so why they play in japan???they fuckin bomb pearl harborn!!!!and fuckin germany???they start 2nd world war!!!!!come on...
LOL then why would they play in the states? they bombed Japan!
I think most are referring to the current state of affairs in the world.
Okay, lets face it. they should all just stick to Canada.
i dont get why u people dont think the fans.....u judge people from nationality..dont get it..pearl jam dont play israel couse of what israel goverment does...so what that means???that the fans of israel are bad people,they are evil?theyshould stop being a fan?
so why they play in japan???they fuckin bomb pearl harborn!!!!and fuckin germany???they start 2nd world war!!!!!come on...
LOL then why would they play in the states? they bombed Japan!
I think most are referring to the current state of affairs in the world.
Okay, lets face it. they should all just stick to Canada.
deal,,6 months they play Canada,and 6 months in Greece
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
i dont get why u people dont think the fans.....u judge people from nationality..dont get it..pearl jam dont play israel couse of what israel goverment does...so what that means???that the fans of israel are bad people,they are evil?theyshould stop being a fan?
so why they play in japan???they fuckin bomb pearl harborn!!!!and fuckin germany???they start 2nd world war!!!!!come on...
LOL then why would they play in the states? they bombed Japan!
I think most are referring to the current state of affairs in the world.
Okay, lets face it. they should all just stick to Canada.
deal,,6 months they play Canada,and 6 months in Greece
no way! our country is a zillion times bigger. i'm willing to split 80/20
deal,,6 months they play Canada,and 6 months in Greece
no way! our country is a zillion times bigger. i'm willing to split 80/20
NO WAY!!!im Doing u a favor with 50-50 already..we have 9 months SUMMER!!
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
i do believe that fans of pearl jam worlwide deserve to experience, what i, as a mad fan, am privileged to know, is only too meaningful, personal and real.... i also had a most intimate conversation (at least for my part; i rambled on as i was on high plain at the time) with two ladies from Israel after the Manchester gig in August last year.... so i do believe individuals matter most, and in this case individual fans ...still, I can't help but feel that if they did play Isreal, somethin in me would feel a measure of discomfort... and often my feelings lack even my own sense of rationality or reason, so that's that i guess...
as for playin in China, i think that's kick ass... rockin country and a rockin people with a profound history... the god damn fuss gets to me, because which god for saken nation ain't guilty of a range of crimes... human rights abuses.. please! the first world has a lot to repent for itself.... and it ain't all history either... it's the currrent state of the world ... and environmental arrogance... forget about it... 3rd world nations gets too much shit for stuff that is goin on everywhere and in every society... and Pearl Jam clearly see that by having decided to rock China... thats why I believe in them...
Sorry to be a little argumentative, but it seems that you're willing to give third-world countries a pass on human rights, but not extend the same pass to first-world countries. So Israel should be held to account because it is first-world, but not China because it is not quite a first-world country yet. Doesn't this kind of undermine entirely the very idea of human rights?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Sorry to be a little argumentative, but it seems that you're willing to give third-world countries a pass on human rights, but not extend the same pass to first-world countries. So Israel should be held to account because it is first-world, but not China because it is not quite a first-world country yet. Doesn't this kind of undermine entirely the very idea of human rights?
a fair argument... only 1st world countries get the pass only to often with respect to a variety of matters, and it'll take a hell of a lot of passes for the 3rd world before the imbalance is even close to gettin evened out...
Human rights only exist to very limited degrees in any part of the world... and maybe I'm a pessimist in this regard, but I do not believe they will ever be respected properly.... I am currently in the UK and I've seen shit here (like basic disregard for your fellow being or complete disregard for, and indeed opression of particular minority communities) which I 've never seen in Pakistan, but then again vice versa.... point is, nowhere are things better... so if Pearl Jam are playin China, one should not question that anymore than Pearl Jam playin European countries... I'll let the US go, cuz hell that's their homeland so... but if there's fuss about China, why are there not ever ANY questions about euro tours... for me, it's music and indeed they should tour Euro, but then quit stressin on the China gig
as for Isreal, yeah on that point, like i said, the issue is very personal and my views lack objectivity... (but only becaue here is a country which is just blatantly gettin away with shit which has been labelled legitimate war as opposed to terrorism...hell, that legit war is just as much terrorism for those upon whom its beng waged... it's just that one side are clad in slick military uniforms which makes them "soldiers" , as opposed to terrorists... the only difference therefore is the hypocricy, and that to me is the most significant difference)...
if the fuss on China were taken down several notches, then yeah, maybe my personal feelings on a hypothetical gig in Isreal might also alter...
all i know, is that if my favorite band that i've loved since i was 12, ever play in Israel while things remain the same, i will see that as them offering support of Israels illegal, brutal occupation and oppression against the Palestinian people.
and i will never forgive them.
rocking in the free world my ass.
i hope that you are just as mad as them playing in the USA.
when Pearl Jam play in America, no one is excluded from going. no one is being illegally occupied, brutally and inhumanely treated, and unable to leave the confines of their 'prison,
if they were, then that would be another story wouldn't it. but they're not. so there is no comparison.
if they played in Israel, Palestinians wouldn't be allowed to go. so unless they are, i say no.
I've said before and I'll say it now, pearl jam NOT playing Israel is there way of protesting this issue...I believe it'll remain silent in Israel because we all know if Ed had the mic he would say something and that something would be career suicide....just read the book- they dare to speak out. See what happened to all who ever critisized Israel.....
Yes, yes of course you're right! Because the Jews control the media, and the banks, and the large corporations, and most of the governments! ARE YOU SERIOUS! I feel like it's 1900 in czarist Russia.
"80% of Israelis supported the massacare in Gaza in January when 1400 people were murdered, and considered it a job well done. until people from Israel begin to oppose their own government's oppressive policies, this will never end."
Dear Angel, do you have a link to this poll that shows that 80% of aLL Israelis supported this. i have a distrust of pollls so i just want to review the poll.
The poll, supervised by Professor Camil Fuchs, head of Tel Aviv University's Statistics and Operations Research...
Despite pictures from Gaza depicting massive destruction and a large number of wounded and killed, including women and children, 82 percent of the public believe that Israel has not "gone too far" with the military force it is exercising against Hamas.
This means that almost all Israel's Jewish citizens warmly support the operation, its goals, firepower and management.
War and Peace Index - December 2008
Prof. Ephraim Yaar and Prof. Tamar Hermann
The War and Peace Index survey that was conducted about a week and a
half after the launching of Operation Cast Lead shows that the operation, with
its various aspects, enjoys overwhelming support from the Israeli Jewish
public: 94% of the public support or strongly support the operation, 92% think
it benefits Israel’s security, and a clear majority, albeit smaller—62%—believe
the operation is also helping Israel from a political standpoint. Ninety-two
percent justify the air force’s attacks in Gaza despite the damage they cause
to infrastructure and the suffering of the civilian population in the Strip. The
decision to introduce ground forces into Gaza also enjoys broad support: 70%
say it was a necessary move.
On the question of whether to continue the operation, the public—unlike the
disagreements among the political leadership—displays unanimity: 90% of the
interviewees think Israel should continue until it achieves all its objectives.
That support goes hand in hand with the large majority’s assessments that
(70%) the operation has high or moderately high chances of achieving all its
objectives and that (75%) the government has a clear plan of action for
continuing the operation in Gaza. Presumably this broad support for
sustaining the fighting is considerably bolstered by the public’s current
positive assessments of the IDF’s fighting capability (93%) and of the
southern communities’ resilience (87%).
In a similar spirit, on the question of whether Israel should or should not cease
the military activity in Gaza if Hamas is prepared to stop firing on the southern
communities in return for opening the crossings, 80% responded negatively.
In otherwords, the majority does not think Israel should stop the operation
even if Hamas agrees to an offer of that kind. Moreover, a similar majority
says Israel should not sign a ceasefire agreement with Hamas if it does not
include the freeing of Gilad Shalit.
Sorry to be a little argumentative, but it seems that you're willing to give third-world countries a pass on human rights, but not extend the same pass to first-world countries. So Israel should be held to account because it is first-world, but not China because it is not quite a first-world country yet. Doesn't this kind of undermine entirely the very idea of human rights?
but really, even if the fuss on China did die down, the shit Israel is reponsible for and gettin away with is world's apart from anythin goin on in China... coming down hard on or silencing opposition parties, or the media is one thing (and which of course is very much a fact in western countries also) and hell, China doesn't claim to be democratic anyway, so there's no hypocricy here either... but openly fuckin a whole population by droppin bombs on them and deprivin em of basic needs, is another matter altogether...
...
"80% of Israelis supported the massacare in Gaza in January when 1400 people were murdered, and considered it a job well done. until people from Israel begin to oppose their own government's oppressive policies, this will never end."
Dear Angel, do you have a link to this poll that shows that 80% of aLL Israelis supported this. i have a distrust of pollls so i just want to review the poll.
The poll, supervised by Professor Camil Fuchs, head of Tel Aviv University's Statistics and Operations Research...
Despite pictures from Gaza depicting massive destruction and a large number of wounded and killed, including women and children, 82 percent of the public believe that Israel has not "gone too far" with the military force it is exercising against Hamas.
This means that almost all Israel's Jewish citizens warmly support the operation, its goals, firepower and management.
War and Peace Index - December 2008
Prof. Ephraim Yaar and Prof. Tamar Hermann
The War and Peace Index survey that was conducted about a week and a
half after the launching of Operation Cast Lead shows that the operation, with
its various aspects, enjoys overwhelming support from the Israeli Jewish
public: 94% of the public support or strongly support the operation, 92% think
it benefits Israel’s security, and a clear majority, albeit smaller—62%—believe
the operation is also helping Israel from a political standpoint. Ninety-two
percent justify the air force’s attacks in Gaza despite the damage they cause
to infrastructure and the suffering of the civilian population in the Strip. The
decision to introduce ground forces into Gaza also enjoys broad support: 70%
say it was a necessary move.
On the question of whether to continue the operation, the public—unlike the
disagreements among the political leadership—displays unanimity: 90% of the
interviewees think Israel should continue until it achieves all its objectives.
That support goes hand in hand with the large majority’s assessments that
(70%) the operation has high or moderately high chances of achieving all its
objectives and that (75%) the government has a clear plan of action for
continuing the operation in Gaza. Presumably this broad support for
sustaining the fighting is considerably bolstered by the public’s current
positive assessments of the IDF’s fighting capability (93%) and of the
southern communities’ resilience (87%).
In a similar spirit, on the question of whether Israel should or should not cease
the military activity in Gaza if Hamas is prepared to stop firing on the southern
communities in return for opening the crossings, 80% responded negatively.
In otherwords, the majority does not think Israel should stop the operation
even if Hamas agrees to an offer of that kind. Moreover, a similar majority
says Israel should not sign a ceasefire agreement with Hamas if it does not
include the freeing of Gilad Shalit.
A) Are you really surprised that Israelis supported an offensive against a terrorist organization that has been attacking them for two decades? People here keep saying that if we were living under the conditions the Palestinians live under that we'd probably think like the Palestinians do. Well, if you lived under the conditions that Israelis live under you'd probably think like the Israelis do. The poll shows support for the operation. It does not show support for a "massacre." If you polled Israelis and asked them whether they supported the IDF lining a thousand Palestinians up against a wall and shooting them, I guarantee you they would not support that.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
A) Are you really surprised that Israelis supported an offensive against a terrorist organization that has been attacking them for two decades? People here keep saying that if we were living under the conditions the Palestinians live under that we'd probably think like the Palestinians do. Well, if you lived under the conditions that Israelis live under you'd probably think like the Israelis do. The poll shows support for the operation. It does not show support for a "massacre." If you polled Israelis and asked them whether they supported the IDF lining a thousand Palestinians up against a wall and shooting them, I guarantee you they would not support that.
the poll shows support for an operation that turned into a massacare.
even after seeing the consequences and the number of deaths, 90% of the people surveyed think it should continue.
A) Are you really surprised that Israelis supported an offensive against a terrorist organization that has been attacking them for two decades? People here keep saying that if we were living under the conditions the Palestinians live under that we'd probably think like the Palestinians do. Well, if you lived under the conditions that Israelis live under you'd probably think like the Israelis do. The poll shows support for the operation. It does not show support for a "massacre." If you polled Israelis and asked them whether they supported the IDF lining a thousand Palestinians up against a wall and shooting them, I guarantee you they would not support that.
the poll shows support for an operation that turned into a massacare.
even after seeing the consequences and the number of deaths, 90% of the people surveyed think it should continue.
I'm really very sorry that Israelis are not as concerned about the well being of the people they have been locked in violent conflict with for the past century. What do you want, that Israelis should care more about the Palestinians then they do about themselves? Israelis saw this operation as being entirely a response to Hamas' attacks on them. I personally think the IDF went too far, but I have a little more distance from the conflict. If I were to ask you why it is that Palestinians rejoice in the streets when a suicide bomber blows up a bus full of school kids, or a cafe full of innocent people, you'd say that you didn't support suicide bombings but that you wouldn't judge the Palestinians who did support it because you haven't lived through what they have lived through. How is this any different?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I've said before and I'll say it now, pearl jam NOT playing Israel is there way of protesting this issue...I believe it'll remain silent in Israel because we all know if Ed had the mic he would say something and that something would be career suicide....just read the book- they dare to speak out. See what happened to all who ever critisized Israel.....
Yes, yes of course you're right! Because the Jews control the media, and the banks, and the large corporations, and most of the governments! ARE YOU SERIOUS! I feel like it's 1900 in czarist Russia.
do you? gosh. my heart bleeds for you :roll:
imagine how the ordinary Palestinians feel.
What does thinly veiled classically anti-semitic tropes about the Jews controlling the levers of power have to do with the Palestinians?! Seriously, you are making this so confrontational that you're upset that I take offense to remarks that are borderline anti-semitic?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I'm really very sorry that Israelis are not as concerned about the well being of the people they have been locked in violent conflict with for the past century. What do you want, that Israelis should care more about the Palestinians then they do about themselves? Israelis saw this operation as being entirely a response to Hamas' attacks on them. I personally think the IDF went too far, but I have a little more distance from the conflict. If I were to ask you why it is that Palestinians rejoice in the streets when a suicide bomber blows up a bus full of school kids, or a cafe full of innocent people, you'd say that you didn't support suicide bombings but that you wouldn't judge the Palestinians who did support it because you haven't lived through what they have lived through. How is this any different?
there has not been a suicide bombing in years Yosi.
hundreds and hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in just the last year alone because of Israeli Terrorism.
Oh, silly me, I didn't realize that Israelis were supposed to forget the entire history of Arab hostility towards them, all the years of war and terror, just because suicide bombers have been replaced with rockets, and that only because with the fence and the roadblocks and the constant presence of the IDF it became apparent that suicide bombing was no longer showing the desired returns in dead Israelis. The fact that you could even expect Israelis to so easily forget or forgive is proof enough that you have absolutely no conception of what Israel has gone through. You would think that I was crazy if I said that Palestinians should just forgive Israel and forget about the occupation. Well what you are talking about is just as insane.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
And before you tell me that the occupation is still going on, let me tell you that terrorism against Israel has not stopped, and just because not as many people are being killed now as before it doesn't mean that the threat that Israelis live under is any less. In fact, with Hamas and Hezbollah arming themselves with rockets and missiles that could hit Tel Aviv one could argue that the threat is even greater now then before.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Palestinians celebrating in the streets huh? Well I see ur celebration and I raise you children writing disgusting messages on the bombs to be dropped on children.
Palestinians celebrating in the streets huh? Well I see ur celebration and I raise you children writing disgusting messages on the bombs to be dropped on children.
Yeah that was a fucked up picture, but that represents a very small segment of Israeli society. Street celebrations on the occasion of terror attacks is widespread in the Arab world, not just among Palestinians. I would imagine that you would know this yourself from personal knowledge of the region, just as I know from personal experience that Israeli society by in large does not take any pleasure in the deaths of innocents.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
And before you tell me that the occupation is still going on, let me tell you that terrorism against Israel has not stopped, and just because not as many people are being killed now as before it doesn't mean that the threat that Israelis live under is any less. In fact, with Hamas and Hezbollah arming themselves with rockets and missiles that could hit Tel Aviv one could argue that the threat is even greater now then before.
what's that saying again? you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
there is only one side occupying the other and i'll keep posting this until it sinks in...
Palestinian & Israeli Children Killed in Gaza 12/27/08 - 1/18/09
Palestinians & Israelis Killed in Gaza 12/27/08 - 1/18/09
Palestinians celebrating in the streets huh? Well I see ur celebration and I raise you children writing disgusting messages on the bombs to be dropped on children.
Yeah that was a fucked up picture, but that represents a very small segment of Israeli society. Street celebrations on the occasion of terror attacks is widespread in the Arab world, not just among Palestinians. I would imagine that you would know this yourself from personal knowledge of the region, just as I know from personal experience that Israeli society by in large does not take any pleasure in the deaths of innocents.
How many times have you visited Israel Triumphant? How on earth would you know that the majority of Israelis relish killing Palestinians? How many Israelis have you ever even spoken to, and how many of those told you that they love hearing about dead Arabs?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Comments
Well I'm probably not going to read it, at least any time soon. I've got a big pile of books to work through already. From the comment you posted I think I have a sense of what it's going to say, but how about you provide a summary and I'll respond.
i hope that you are just as mad as them playing in the USA.
Dear Angel, do you have a link to this poll that shows that 80% of aLL Israelis supported this. i have a distrust of pollls so i just want to review the poll.
I'd also add that these poll results would VERY MUCH depend on how the relevant question was worded. If you asked people whether they "support a given military action", I suspect you'd get a very different response as compared to "how do you feel about civilians dying in Gaza?"
I think most are referring to the current state of affairs in the world.
Okay, lets face it. they should all just stick to Canada.
I'm cool with that.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
as for playin in China, i think that's kick ass... rockin country and a rockin people with a profound history... the god damn fuss gets to me, because which god for saken nation ain't guilty of a range of crimes... human rights abuses.. please! the first world has a lot to repent for itself.... and it ain't all history either... it's the currrent state of the world ... and environmental arrogance... forget about it... 3rd world nations gets too much shit for stuff that is goin on everywhere and in every society... and Pearl Jam clearly see that by having decided to rock China... thats why I believe in them...
a fair argument... only 1st world countries get the pass only to often with respect to a variety of matters, and it'll take a hell of a lot of passes for the 3rd world before the imbalance is even close to gettin evened out...
Human rights only exist to very limited degrees in any part of the world... and maybe I'm a pessimist in this regard, but I do not believe they will ever be respected properly.... I am currently in the UK and I've seen shit here (like basic disregard for your fellow being or complete disregard for, and indeed opression of particular minority communities) which I 've never seen in Pakistan, but then again vice versa.... point is, nowhere are things better... so if Pearl Jam are playin China, one should not question that anymore than Pearl Jam playin European countries... I'll let the US go, cuz hell that's their homeland so... but if there's fuss about China, why are there not ever ANY questions about euro tours... for me, it's music and indeed they should tour Euro, but then quit stressin on the China gig
as for Isreal, yeah on that point, like i said, the issue is very personal and my views lack objectivity... (but only becaue here is a country which is just blatantly gettin away with shit which has been labelled legitimate war as opposed to terrorism...hell, that legit war is just as much terrorism for those upon whom its beng waged... it's just that one side are clad in slick military uniforms which makes them "soldiers" , as opposed to terrorists... the only difference therefore is the hypocricy, and that to me is the most significant difference)...
if the fuss on China were taken down several notches, then yeah, maybe my personal feelings on a hypothetical gig in Isreal might also alter...
when Pearl Jam play in America, no one is excluded from going. no one is being illegally occupied, brutally and inhumanely treated, and unable to leave the confines of their 'prison,
if they were, then that would be another story wouldn't it. but they're not. so there is no comparison.
if they played in Israel, Palestinians wouldn't be allowed to go. so unless they are, i say no.
boycott israel. free Gaza,
imagine how the ordinary Palestinians feel.
Despite pictures from Gaza depicting massive destruction and a large number of wounded and killed, including women and children, 82 percent of the public believe that Israel has not "gone too far" with the military force it is exercising against Hamas.
This means that almost all Israel's Jewish citizens warmly support the operation, its goals, firepower and management.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055564.html
War and Peace Index - December 2008
Prof. Ephraim Yaar and Prof. Tamar Hermann
The War and Peace Index survey that was conducted about a week and a
half after the launching of Operation Cast Lead shows that the operation, with
its various aspects, enjoys overwhelming support from the Israeli Jewish
public: 94% of the public support or strongly support the operation, 92% think
it benefits Israel’s security, and a clear majority, albeit smaller—62%—believe
the operation is also helping Israel from a political standpoint. Ninety-two
percent justify the air force’s attacks in Gaza despite the damage they cause
to infrastructure and the suffering of the civilian population in the Strip. The
decision to introduce ground forces into Gaza also enjoys broad support: 70%
say it was a necessary move.
On the question of whether to continue the operation, the public—unlike the
disagreements among the political leadership—displays unanimity: 90% of the
interviewees think Israel should continue until it achieves all its objectives.
That support goes hand in hand with the large majority’s assessments that
(70%) the operation has high or moderately high chances of achieving all its
objectives and that (75%) the government has a clear plan of action for
continuing the operation in Gaza. Presumably this broad support for
sustaining the fighting is considerably bolstered by the public’s current
positive assessments of the IDF’s fighting capability (93%) and of the
southern communities’ resilience (87%).
In a similar spirit, on the question of whether Israel should or should not cease
the military activity in Gaza if Hamas is prepared to stop firing on the southern
communities in return for opening the crossings, 80% responded negatively.
In otherwords, the majority does not think Israel should stop the operation
even if Hamas agrees to an offer of that kind. Moreover, a similar majority
says Israel should not sign a ceasefire agreement with Hamas if it does not
include the freeing of Gilad Shalit.
but really, even if the fuss on China did die down, the shit Israel is reponsible for and gettin away with is world's apart from anythin goin on in China... coming down hard on or silencing opposition parties, or the media is one thing (and which of course is very much a fact in western countries also) and hell, China doesn't claim to be democratic anyway, so there's no hypocricy here either... but openly fuckin a whole population by droppin bombs on them and deprivin em of basic needs, is another matter altogether...
...
A) Are you really surprised that Israelis supported an offensive against a terrorist organization that has been attacking them for two decades? People here keep saying that if we were living under the conditions the Palestinians live under that we'd probably think like the Palestinians do. Well, if you lived under the conditions that Israelis live under you'd probably think like the Israelis do.
even after seeing the consequences and the number of deaths, 90% of the people surveyed think it should continue.
I'm really very sorry that Israelis are not as concerned about the well being of the people they have been locked in violent conflict with for the past century. What do you want, that Israelis should care more about the Palestinians then they do about themselves? Israelis saw this operation as being entirely a response to Hamas' attacks on them. I personally think the IDF went too far, but I have a little more distance from the conflict. If I were to ask you why it is that Palestinians rejoice in the streets when a suicide bomber blows up a bus full of school kids, or a cafe full of innocent people, you'd say that you didn't support suicide bombings but that you wouldn't judge the Palestinians who did support it because you haven't lived through what they have lived through. How is this any different?
What does thinly veiled classically anti-semitic tropes about the Jews controlling the levers of power have to do with the Palestinians?! Seriously, you are making this so confrontational that you're upset that I take offense to remarks that are borderline anti-semitic?
there has not been a suicide bombing in years Yosi.
hundreds and hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in just the last year alone because of Israeli Terrorism.
Yeah that was a fucked up picture, but that represents a very small segment of Israeli society. Street celebrations on the occasion of terror attacks is widespread in the Arab world, not just among Palestinians. I would imagine that you would know this yourself from personal knowledge of the region, just as I know from personal experience that Israeli society by in large does not take any pleasure in the deaths of innocents.
there is only one side occupying the other and i'll keep posting this until it sinks in...
Palestinian & Israeli Children Killed in Gaza 12/27/08 - 1/18/09
Palestinians & Israelis Killed in Gaza 12/27/08 - 1/18/09
unbelievable.