i wish JB811 hadn't chosen to ignore most of your points in response to his question. you raise some very valid concerns here Starfall.
I pretty much did answer all of this. What points should I expand on? Medical insurance isn't the topic. Neither is mortgages. I thought we were talking welfare.
LOL, you forgot to address the issue of costs and the humanitarian aspect. Furthermore, in the OP, the woman was forced into sterilization against her will. That's kinda like... hmm... Communist China.
Try again.
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
Yeah well welfare and government handouts remind me of rations in a former USSR society.
And like all those horrible communist countries like Sweden, Germany, Denmark, France... oh yeah. I hope your grandparents aren't on Medicare and Social Security, because they're receiving government handouts at my expense.
No system is foolproof. There are people who need help, let's help them. However we also need to identify and prosecute the ones that are fraudulent.
I'm all for helping citizens in need. I'd also consider helping legal immigrants who are contributing. But I think we need to stop the bleeding first. If someone loads their foodstamp groceries into an Escalade something is not right. If you can't afford FOOD you should not be driving something like that. Take public transportation, buy an affordable car. Then guess what there might be money for milk.
I'm all for helping the ones that need it, I'm against helping the lazy, the junkies, and the illegals.
Nobody's denying that fraud needs to be rooted out and prosecuted. But what you're doing is perpetuating this view of welfare recepients in this absolutely degrading and dehumanizing light. This is Ronald Reagan's "cadillac welfare queens" myth all over again. The vast majority of welfare recipients are not fraudulent, and moreover the old system of eternal welfare was ended under Bill Clinton.
Post edited by Starfall on
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
I'll be interested to see how this works out... If she was indeed sterilized against her will, that is horrible, but you never want to go by just the word of someone filing a lawsuit without hearing the other side.
It is a bit odd that it took her 3 years to file a suit, and she's sued the medical profession before and settled.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
My wife and I were reading an article yesterday (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/region ... id=1222682) about a women who is suing a Massachusetts hospital because they apparently wrongfully sterilized her after having her ninth kid.
The women is unemployed, on disability and receives public assistance for some of the children she has custody of.
Between this story, and a friend's facebook rant Saturday about waiting in line at stores behind people wearing designer clothes and buying junkfood with foodstamp cards, or another friend (social worker) complaining about missing her kids while working over the holidays while dealing with deadbeat mothers who ignore their children while laying in bed all day "eating doritos and smoking marlboros", it made think angrily think about all of the lazy people living off everyone else.
I'm all for helping people and families who fall on tough times, but what can and should be done to people who continue to have kids that they obviously can't afford? or continue to milk the system because they know that it's easier than getting a job and supporting themselves?
Let me ask you this: If you're really concerned about the issue of women having "too many" kids, do you support the availability affordable, accessible, reliable contraceptives for everyone?
the title implies something needs to be done about welfare mothers. which is horseshit.
i'm more worried about corporate welfare, costing us exponentially more than single mothers who need help, or single mothers abusing the system.
its a disease, and the idea that single mothers abusing the system are to blame is absurd. corporate welfare eats your taxes, not compassion, or the few that would abuse it. google corporate grants, or no bid contracts, if you're worried about how your tax dollars are being spent. i can guaranfuckingtee you welfare mothers eat not a fraction worth considering compared to corporations.
the state serves corporate america, as its always been. the elite prosper at labors' expense. corporate welfare mothers are a symptom of this greed and waste and selfishness, and their impact is miniscule.
My wife and I were reading an article yesterday (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/region ... id=1222682) about a women who is suing a Massachusetts hospital because they apparently wrongfully sterilized her after having her ninth kid.
The women is unemployed, on disability and receives public assistance for some of the children she has custody of.
Between this story, and a friend's facebook rant Saturday about waiting in line at stores behind people wearing designer clothes and buying junkfood with foodstamp cards, or another friend (social worker) complaining about missing her kids while working over the holidays while dealing with deadbeat mothers who ignore their children while laying in bed all day "eating doritos and smoking marlboros", it made think angrily think about all of the lazy people living off everyone else.
I'm all for helping people and families who fall on tough times, but what can and should be done to people who continue to have kids that they obviously can't afford? or continue to milk the system because they know that it's easier than getting a job and supporting themselves?
Let me ask you this: If you're really concerned about the issue of women having "too many" kids, do you support the availability affordable, accessible, reliable contraceptives for everyone?
???
Sorry, didn't see this question before... of course I do, who doesn't?
And I couldn't care less how many kids a women, man or a couple have, IF they can financially support them and take care of them, I just have a problem with people who keep having kids when they can't afford the ones that they currently have.
My wife and I have one son, and are trying to have another child, but you bet we've spent some time talking about the additional costs associated with having another kid, and how we plan on being able to pay our bills.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Let me ask you this: If you're really concerned about the issue of women having "too many" kids, do you support the availability affordable, accessible, reliable contraceptives for everyone?
Sorry, didn't see this question before... of course I do, who doesn't?
Do you support this in practice, or just in theory? What do you do to support it? If a woman can't get emergency contraception, do you say, Wow, something should be done about this or do you just say She should have been more responsible & leave it at that?
Let me ask you this: If you're really concerned about the issue of women having "too many" kids, do you support the availability affordable, accessible, reliable contraceptives for everyone?
Sorry, didn't see this question before... of course I do, who doesn't?
Do you support this in practice, or just in theory? What do you do to support it? If a woman can't get emergency contraception, do you say, Wow, something should be done about this or do you just say She should have been more responsible & leave it at that?
Support in practice? Am I protesting in front of a local pharmacy because they don't stock it, or writing letters to my insurance company to cover it? no... so I guess i just support it in theory.
if she truly can't get emergency contraception, then yes, something should be done about it... but if her specific insurance doesn't cover the cost of it, or she has to look a little for a pharmacy that stocks it, then it's not a big deal in my opinion.
Having sex is a choice that people make... there is an inherent risk to having sex, where the result may be a disease or a pregnancy. There are many precautions that you can take, and almost all of them are available, affordable, accessible and reliable. A LOT of it comes down to personal responsibility.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Do you support this in practice, or just in theory? What do you do to support it? If a woman can't get emergency contraception, do you say, Wow, something should be done about this or do you just say She should have been more responsible & leave it at that?
Support in practice? Am I protesting in front of a local pharmacy because they don't stock it, or writing letters to my insurance company to cover it? no... so I guess i just support it in theory.
if she truly can't get emergency contraception, then yes, something should be done about it... but if her specific insurance doesn't cover the cost of it, or she has to look a little for a pharmacy that stocks it, then it's not a big deal in my opinion.
Having sex is a choice that people make... there is an inherent risk to having sex, where the result may be a disease or a pregnancy. There are many precautions that you can take, and almost all of them are available, affordable, accessible and reliable. A LOT of it comes down to personal responsibility.
If you really believe the parts I bolded, then you don't really support accessible reliable contraception for everyone, and I think you are part of the problem of the "welfare state" and not part of the solution.
Support in practice? Am I protesting in front of a local pharmacy because they don't stock it, or writing letters to my insurance company to cover it? no... so I guess i just support it in theory.
if she truly can't get emergency contraception, then yes, something should be done about it... but if her specific insurance doesn't cover the cost of it, or she has to look a little for a pharmacy that stocks it, then it's not a big deal in my opinion.
Having sex is a choice that people make... there is an inherent risk to having sex, where the result may be a disease or a pregnancy. There are many precautions that you can take, and almost all of them are available, affordable, accessible and reliable. A LOT of it comes down to personal responsibility.
If you really believe the parts I bolded, then you don't really support accessible reliable contraception for everyone, and I think you are part of the problem of the "welfare state" and not part of the solution.
ok then...
I must just believe in contraception for the rich, elite, upper class like me :roll: . Somehow even when I was a broke kid just out of college, in any relationship/encounter I've even been in I've/we've managed to take precautions and not get pregnant... I don't recall any of the precautions breaking the bank or being hard to come by.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Having sex is a choice that people make... there is an inherent risk to having sex, where the result may be a disease or a pregnancy. There are many precautions that you can take, and almost all of them are available, affordable, accessible and reliable. A LOT of it comes down to personal responsibility.
If you really believe the parts I bolded, then you don't really support accessible reliable contraception for everyone, and I think you are part of the problem of the "welfare state" and not part of the solution.
ok then...
I must just believe in contraception for the rich, elite, upper class like me :roll: . Somehow even when I was a broke kid just out of college, in any relationship/encounter I've even been in I've/we've managed to take precautions and not get pregnant... I don't recall any of the precautions breaking the bank or being hard to come by.
That's great for you. But the first step to reducing unintended pregnancy is to realize that not everyone's circumstances are the same as yours and - gasp! - to actually try to understand other people's circumstances.
The fact is that many, many poor women in this country get pregnant unintentionally because they can't afford the reliable contraception they need or because it's otherwise inaccessible. Countries who bother to make contraception more accessible (and also who provide better sex education) have lower rates of unintended pregnancies.
We know exactly what we need to do in this country to reduce pregnancy among poor women, and yet we don't do it. And people start threads and shit about how something should be done about this "problem," and yet they aren't willing to take the steps we know will help solve it. Makes me think they don't really want to solve it; all they want to do is bitch about other people.
Come on man. It's not that hard to avoid pregnancy and find some protection. If you really care about yourself you will find a way. Hell, I was able to protect myself when the only money I recieved was an allowance from my parents.
I agree that protection should be as available as possible but you are blowing things out of proportion. You act like it's some sort of epidemic but I would say that anyone who cares about themselves can find a way to protect themselves regardless of sexual promiscuity or financial situation.
Come on man. It's not that hard to avoid pregnancy and find some protection. If you really care about yourself you will find a way. Hell, I was able to protect myself when the only money I recieved was an allowance from my parents.
I agree that protection should be as available as possible but you are blowing things out of proportion. You act like it's some sort of epidemic but I would say that anyone who cares about themselves can find a way to protect themselves regardless of sexual promiscuity or financial situation.
Spoken like a true man, who thinks he knows the outcome of all of his sexual experiences but very likely doesn't. The fact is, maybe you were always able to protect YOURSELF, but you really don't know for sure that you were always able to protect the women you were with. There's no possible way that you know that for sure.
The fact that you and so many others think I'm blowing anything out of proportion is why our country is so fucked up in this area. You say it's not hard to avoid pregnancy, but what does that mean?
But this thread is about what we can do about women on welfare having more children (among other things). Let's say the stereotypes are true and poor women really don't care about themselves or others or have any sense of personal responsibiliy. Let's say they're all irresponsible crack whores. Let's say they're 100% to blame for the "problem".
That's irrelevant. The question isn't who's to blame. The question is what we can do about it. That means you, me, the OP, etc. If we don't like the situation, what can we do about it??
And we know the answer. We know it because the U.S. has nearly the highest unintended pregnancy rate in the developed world. A full 50% of pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended. (Do you really not consider this to be a problem??) We know it because poor women in the U.S. account for a disproportionately high number of the unintended pregnancies in the U.S. and are 4 times as likely to have an unintended pregnancy than wealthier women. We know it because the rates of unintended pregnancy in the U.S. are increasing among poor women while decreasing among wealthier women. We know that poor women have a much harder time accessing birth control. And we know that countries which provide better access to birth control have much lower unintended pregnancy rates. These are facts.
The answer is clear: If we want to reduce unintended pregnancy among poor women in the U.S., increasing access to birth control will do it. And sitting on our asses saying they have plenty of access will not.
So we know what we need to do to help solve the problem, and yet we're not willing to do it. And what do we say about people who have a problem and refuse to do what's necessary to solve it? We say they need to take personal responsibilty. YOU need to take personal responsibility for the problem. Everyone does (if they think there's a problem).
Come on man. It's not that hard to avoid pregnancy and find some protection. If you really care about yourself you will find a way. Hell, I was able to protect myself when the only money I recieved was an allowance from my parents.
I agree that protection should be as available as possible but you are blowing things out of proportion. You act like it's some sort of epidemic but I would say that anyone who cares about themselves can find a way to protect themselves regardless of sexual promiscuity or financial situation.
Spoken like a true man, who thinks he knows the outcome of all of his sexual experiences but very likely doesn't. The fact is, maybe you were always able to protect YOURSELF, but you really don't know for sure that you were always able to protect the women you were with. There's no possible way that you know that for sure.
The fact that you and so many others think I'm blowing anything out of proportion is why our country is so fucked up in this area. You say it's not hard to avoid pregnancy, but what does that mean?
But this thread is about what we can do about women on welfare having more children (among other things). Let's say the stereotypes are true and poor women really don't care about themselves or others or have any sense of personal responsibiliy. Let's say they're all irresponsible crack whores. Let's say they're 100% to blame for the "problem".
That's irrelevant. The question isn't who's to blame. The question is what we can do about it. That means you, me, the OP, etc. If we don't like the situation, what can we do about it??
And we know the answer. We know it because the U.S. has nearly the highest unintended pregnancy rate in the developed world. A full 50% of pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended. (Do you really not consider this to be a problem??) We know it because poor women in the U.S. account for a disproportionately high number of the unintended pregnancies in the U.S. and are 4 times as likely to have an unintended pregnancy than wealthier women. We know it because the rates of unintended pregnancy in the U.S. are increasing among poor women while decreasing among wealthier women. We know that poor women have a much harder time accessing birth control. And we know that countries which provide better access to birth control have much lower unintended pregnancy rates. These are facts.
The answer is clear: If we want to reduce unintended pregnancy among poor women in the U.S., increasing access to birth control will do it. And sitting on our asses saying they have plenty of access will not.
So we know what we need to do to help solve the problem, and yet we're not willing to do it. And what do we say about people who have a problem and refuse to do what's necessary to solve it? We say they need to take personal responsibilty. YOU need to take personal responsibility for the problem. Everyone does (if they think there's a problem).
Personal responibilities are exactly right. And I take personal responsibility. If any female decides not to share her pregnacy or problems with the men they have slept with, that's their choice. But I'd say that would be the second bad decision they made in that scenerio. I am 99.9999% sure I have never been involved in an unintended pregnancy.
My comment here in this thread also had to do with your other thread. But I'll address the problem of unintended pregnancies amongst poor people in America being so high. Birth control availability may be part of the problem, but in no way whatsoever will alleviating that be any sort of solution. The first priorities should be education and economic reform. But while we are wasting trillions of dollars in unneaded wars, that will never happen.
So I while I agree that we should make contraceptives and protection as available as possible, I hardly see it as a pressing issue. I have much greater concerns. I can control wether or not I get someone pregnant. But I can not get us out of Iraq and get that money towards health care, infrastructure, education, and community programs to truly help "welfare mothers".
Personal responibilities are exactly right. And I take personal responsibility. If any female decides not to share her pregnacy or problems with the men they have slept with, that's their choice. But I'd say that would be the second bad decision they made in that scenerio. I am 99.9999% sure I have never been involved in an unintended pregnancy.
My comment here in this thread also had to do with your other thread. But I'll address the problem of unintended pregnancies amongst poor people in America being so high. Birth control availability may be part of the problem, but in no way whatsoever will alleviating that be any sort of solution. The first priorities should be education and economic reform. But while we are wasting trillions of dollars in unneaded wars, that will never happen.
So I while I agree that we should make contraceptives and protection as available as possible, I hardly see it as a pressing issue. I have much greater concerns. I can control wether or not I get someone pregnant. But I can not get us out of Iraq and get that money towards health care, infrastructure, education, and community programs to truly help "welfare mothers".
I meant take personal responsibility to change the system, not just to wear a condom. I can see your argument about priorities. But I think birth control availability is a much bigger part of the problem/solution that you believe it is, and if you better understood just how hard it can be to avoid pregnancy then you might realize that.
Long term, however, women need to be empowered - not just over their bodies, but also in society. Societies where women have a say in how things are done tend not to go into things like preemptive wars, predatory marketplaces, and the like.
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
the title implies something needs to be done about welfare mothers. which is horseshit.
i'm more worried about corporate welfare, costing us exponentially more than single mothers who need help, or single mothers abusing the system.
its a disease, and the idea that single mothers abusing the system are to blame is absurd. corporate welfare eats your taxes, not compassion, or the few that would abuse it. google corporate grants, or no bid contracts, if you're worried about how your tax dollars are being spent. i can guaranfuckingtee you welfare mothers eat not a fraction worth considering compared to corporations.
the state serves corporate america, as its always been. the elite prosper at labors' expense. corporate welfare mothers are a symptom of this greed and waste and selfishness, and their impact is miniscule.
this is all I am trying to say
white collar crime causes far more destruction to our system from the inside out then teenage mothers or families abusing the system as a means of survival
a rich white guy avoiding his taxes needs to be lumped into the welfare mothers category
Actually yes I have many pictures of the properties as the person who bought the house was my new neighbor. We had quite the chat. After two months of making repairs he was close to $100k.
The landlords were bad, that's why the FBI was investigating them for mortgage fraud. Amazing how easy evidence is found by using the internet and viewing public records. The fact remains that someone who owns a home is generally more likely to care for it in a manner better than a renter who has no real financial ties.
Diversity has nothing to do with this. I'm not going to apologize for wanting to buy a home in a crime free neighborhood where people actually take care of their properties. If someone thinks people should just accept that that someone needs a brain check.
Section 8 should be limited to certain properties, not those that exceed the ability for one to maintain it.
Prosecute the sister for fraud and fire those that work for the state that failed to verify the situation.
I wasn't asking if you had conversations with the person that bought the house but if you talked with the section 8 folks... something like a "hey it seems your lawn is a bit overgrown, want to borrow my lawnmower"
and limiting section 8 "to certain properties" sounds like segregation in a new era... just saying
and crime has nothing to do with any of this especially welfare moms as you guys call them, did crime in your neighborhood go up cause of a few section 8 renters? So why bring it up?
the title implies something needs to be done about welfare mothers. which is horseshit.
i'm more worried about corporate welfare, costing us exponentially more than single mothers who need help, or single mothers abusing the system.
its a disease, and the idea that single mothers abusing the system are to blame is absurd. corporate welfare eats your taxes, not compassion, or the few that would abuse it. google corporate grants, or no bid contracts, if you're worried about how your tax dollars are being spent. i can guaranfuckingtee you welfare mothers eat not a fraction worth considering compared to corporations.
the state serves corporate america, as its always been. the elite prosper at labors' expense. corporate welfare mothers are a symptom of this greed and waste and selfishness, and their impact is miniscule.
Section 8 should be limited to certain properties, not those that exceed the ability for one to maintain it.
I wasn't asking if you had conversations with the person that bought the house but if you talked with the section 8 folks... something like a "hey it seems your lawn is a bit overgrown, want to borrow my lawnmower"
and limiting section 8 "to certain properties" sounds like segregation in a new era... just saying
and crime has nothing to do with any of this especially welfare moms as you guys call them, did crime in your neighborhood go up cause of a few section 8 renters? So why bring it up?
Oh that's priceless. So now I'm supposed to work a full time job, maintain my own home, then give my things over to let someone cut their grass? I don't think so. If their lawnmower took a dump, yeah I'd help out. But to simply not own one? Nope. Go rent a townhouse where it is cut for you. I seriously wish I could post pictures here. Let's see first they watered the new sod so it would take, then that stopped once the first water bill came in. Then the weeds got as high as the AC. The city had to come out to cut their weeds down. Then since the sod died the homeowner's association had to replace it. More money out of my pocket since someone can't take care of where they live. Not to mention the police being at these places multiple times a week.
This is from my own personal experience and I know NOT everyone having public aid is like that. However a few bad apples around me spoiled my outlook.
Yes it should be limited to certain porperties. They should not live in luxury, they can't even maintain the property when it is being paid for by someone else. They should be somewhere that they can maintain. It is like anything else in life, you don't live beyond your means.
Yes the crime was directly brought up by these renters. I'm sure the police reports and evictions are public records. You want the addresses? I can give you five.
Section 8 should be limited to certain properties, not those that exceed the ability for one to maintain it.
I wasn't asking if you had conversations with the person that bought the house but if you talked with the section 8 folks... something like a "hey it seems your lawn is a bit overgrown, want to borrow my lawnmower"
and limiting section 8 "to certain properties" sounds like segregation in a new era... just saying
and crime has nothing to do with any of this especially welfare moms as you guys call them, did crime in your neighborhood go up cause of a few section 8 renters? So why bring it up?
Oh that's priceless. So now I'm supposed to work a full time job, maintain my own home, then give my things over to let someone cut their grass? I don't think so. If their lawnmower took a dump, yeah I'd help out. But to simply not own one? Nope. Go rent a townhouse where it is cut for you. I seriously wish I could post pictures here. Let's see first they watered the new sod so it would take, then that stopped once the first water bill came in. Then the weeds got as high as the AC. The city had to come out to cut their weeds down. Then since the sod died the homeowner's association had to replace it. More money out of my pocket since someone can't take care of where they live. Not to mention the police being at these places multiple times a week.
This is from my own personal experience and I know NOT everyone having public aid is like that. However a few bad apples around me spoiled my outlook.
Yes it should be limited to certain porperties. They should not live in luxury, they can't even maintain the property when it is being paid for by someone else. They should be somewhere that they can maintain. It is like anything else in life, you don't live beyond your means.
Yes the crime was directly brought up by these renters. I'm sure the police reports and evictions are public records. You want the addresses? I can give you five.
apparently there are more important things than grass.
Oh that's priceless. So now I'm supposed to work a full time job, maintain my own home, then give my things over to let someone cut their grass? I don't think so. If their lawnmower took a dump, yeah I'd help out. But to simply not own one? Nope. Go rent a townhouse where it is cut for you. I seriously wish I could post pictures here. Let's see first they watered the new sod so it would take, then that stopped once the first water bill came in. Then the weeds got as high as the AC. The city had to come out to cut their weeds down. Then since the sod died the homeowner's association had to replace it. More money out of my pocket since someone can't take care of where they live. Not to mention the police being at these places multiple times a week.
This is from my own personal experience and I know NOT everyone having public aid is like that. However a few bad apples around me spoiled my outlook.
Yes it should be limited to certain porperties. They should not live in luxury, they can't even maintain the property when it is being paid for by someone else. They should be somewhere that they can maintain. It is like anything else in life, you don't live beyond your means.
Yes the crime was directly brought up by these renters. I'm sure the police reports and evictions are public records. You want the addresses? I can give you five.
Gotta love how it all becomes about "my money". :roll:
You made a good point about making assumptions, but it's easy to get angry when you see people who seemingly have many of the material possessions that we have, but we are the ones working long hours and making sacrifices, and they are just getting a check every month for doing nothing.
I work long hours to provide for me and my life... I work and see work as a social thing as well as a necessity. I pay taxes cos it's the law... I'm glad there are welfare facilities cos, for the first time in my life, I needed them recently. I'm happy to support people who can't support themselves. I learned during that time that doing nothing is extremely overrated... it is demoralising, kills any confidence you have the longer it goes on... and people judge you :? wow, imagine that. No matter how hard you're trying to get yourself out of your situation there will be people who look down on you and think you're not doing enough. Those people are losers and need to focus on their own lives, rather than try and pick on the weaker members of society :evil:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Everyone on welfare should be subject to a drug test. Everyone on welfare should also be a US citizen.
:? are US citizens better than everyone else? :oops: wow, they never gave us the memo.
There are US emigrants all over the world ya know... USA isn't the only country with immigrants. Should we also treat your citizens like shit?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
LOL, you forgot to address the issue of costs and the humanitarian aspect. Furthermore, in the OP, the woman was forced into sterilization against her will. That's kinda like... hmm... Communist China.
Try again.
And like all those horrible communist countries like Sweden, Germany, Denmark, France... oh yeah. I hope your grandparents aren't on Medicare and Social Security, because they're receiving government handouts at my expense.
Nobody's denying that fraud needs to be rooted out and prosecuted. But what you're doing is perpetuating this view of welfare recepients in this absolutely degrading and dehumanizing light. This is Ronald Reagan's "cadillac welfare queens" myth all over again. The vast majority of welfare recipients are not fraudulent, and moreover the old system of eternal welfare was ended under Bill Clinton.
Exactly. Thank you.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/region ... id=1223441
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
I'll be interested to see how this works out... If she was indeed sterilized against her will, that is horrible, but you never want to go by just the word of someone filing a lawsuit without hearing the other side.
It is a bit odd that it took her 3 years to file a suit, and she's sued the medical profession before and settled.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
???
See, my mother said I'd be useful someday.
i'm more worried about corporate welfare, costing us exponentially more than single mothers who need help, or single mothers abusing the system.
its a disease, and the idea that single mothers abusing the system are to blame is absurd. corporate welfare eats your taxes, not compassion, or the few that would abuse it. google corporate grants, or no bid contracts, if you're worried about how your tax dollars are being spent. i can guaranfuckingtee you welfare mothers eat not a fraction worth considering compared to corporations.
the state serves corporate america, as its always been. the elite prosper at labors' expense. corporate welfare mothers are a symptom of this greed and waste and selfishness, and their impact is miniscule.
Sorry, didn't see this question before... of course I do, who doesn't?
And I couldn't care less how many kids a women, man or a couple have, IF they can financially support them and take care of them, I just have a problem with people who keep having kids when they can't afford the ones that they currently have.
My wife and I have one son, and are trying to have another child, but you bet we've spent some time talking about the additional costs associated with having another kid, and how we plan on being able to pay our bills.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Do you support this in practice, or just in theory? What do you do to support it? If a woman can't get emergency contraception, do you say, Wow, something should be done about this or do you just say She should have been more responsible & leave it at that?
Support in practice? Am I protesting in front of a local pharmacy because they don't stock it, or writing letters to my insurance company to cover it? no... so I guess i just support it in theory.
if she truly can't get emergency contraception, then yes, something should be done about it... but if her specific insurance doesn't cover the cost of it, or she has to look a little for a pharmacy that stocks it, then it's not a big deal in my opinion.
Having sex is a choice that people make... there is an inherent risk to having sex, where the result may be a disease or a pregnancy. There are many precautions that you can take, and almost all of them are available, affordable, accessible and reliable. A LOT of it comes down to personal responsibility.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
If you really believe the parts I bolded, then you don't really support accessible reliable contraception for everyone, and I think you are part of the problem of the "welfare state" and not part of the solution.
ok then...
I must just believe in contraception for the rich, elite, upper class like me :roll: . Somehow even when I was a broke kid just out of college, in any relationship/encounter I've even been in I've/we've managed to take precautions and not get pregnant... I don't recall any of the precautions breaking the bank or being hard to come by.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
That's great for you. But the first step to reducing unintended pregnancy is to realize that not everyone's circumstances are the same as yours and - gasp! - to actually try to understand other people's circumstances.
The fact is that many, many poor women in this country get pregnant unintentionally because they can't afford the reliable contraception they need or because it's otherwise inaccessible. Countries who bother to make contraception more accessible (and also who provide better sex education) have lower rates of unintended pregnancies.
We know exactly what we need to do in this country to reduce pregnancy among poor women, and yet we don't do it. And people start threads and shit about how something should be done about this "problem," and yet they aren't willing to take the steps we know will help solve it. Makes me think they don't really want to solve it; all they want to do is bitch about other people.
Come on man. It's not that hard to avoid pregnancy and find some protection. If you really care about yourself you will find a way. Hell, I was able to protect myself when the only money I recieved was an allowance from my parents.
I agree that protection should be as available as possible but you are blowing things out of proportion. You act like it's some sort of epidemic but I would say that anyone who cares about themselves can find a way to protect themselves regardless of sexual promiscuity or financial situation.
Spoken like a true man, who thinks he knows the outcome of all of his sexual experiences but very likely doesn't. The fact is, maybe you were always able to protect YOURSELF, but you really don't know for sure that you were always able to protect the women you were with. There's no possible way that you know that for sure.
The fact that you and so many others think I'm blowing anything out of proportion is why our country is so fucked up in this area. You say it's not hard to avoid pregnancy, but what does that mean?
But this thread is about what we can do about women on welfare having more children (among other things). Let's say the stereotypes are true and poor women really don't care about themselves or others or have any sense of personal responsibiliy. Let's say they're all irresponsible crack whores. Let's say they're 100% to blame for the "problem".
That's irrelevant. The question isn't who's to blame. The question is what we can do about it. That means you, me, the OP, etc. If we don't like the situation, what can we do about it??
And we know the answer. We know it because the U.S. has nearly the highest unintended pregnancy rate in the developed world. A full 50% of pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended. (Do you really not consider this to be a problem??) We know it because poor women in the U.S. account for a disproportionately high number of the unintended pregnancies in the U.S. and are 4 times as likely to have an unintended pregnancy than wealthier women. We know it because the rates of unintended pregnancy in the U.S. are increasing among poor women while decreasing among wealthier women. We know that poor women have a much harder time accessing birth control. And we know that countries which provide better access to birth control have much lower unintended pregnancy rates. These are facts.
The answer is clear: If we want to reduce unintended pregnancy among poor women in the U.S., increasing access to birth control will do it. And sitting on our asses saying they have plenty of access will not.
So we know what we need to do to help solve the problem, and yet we're not willing to do it. And what do we say about people who have a problem and refuse to do what's necessary to solve it? We say they need to take personal responsibilty. YOU need to take personal responsibility for the problem. Everyone does (if they think there's a problem).
Personal responibilities are exactly right. And I take personal responsibility. If any female decides not to share her pregnacy or problems with the men they have slept with, that's their choice. But I'd say that would be the second bad decision they made in that scenerio. I am 99.9999% sure I have never been involved in an unintended pregnancy.
My comment here in this thread also had to do with your other thread. But I'll address the problem of unintended pregnancies amongst poor people in America being so high. Birth control availability may be part of the problem, but in no way whatsoever will alleviating that be any sort of solution. The first priorities should be education and economic reform. But while we are wasting trillions of dollars in unneaded wars, that will never happen.
So I while I agree that we should make contraceptives and protection as available as possible, I hardly see it as a pressing issue. I have much greater concerns. I can control wether or not I get someone pregnant. But I can not get us out of Iraq and get that money towards health care, infrastructure, education, and community programs to truly help "welfare mothers".
I meant take personal responsibility to change the system, not just to wear a condom. I can see your argument about priorities. But I think birth control availability is a much bigger part of the problem/solution that you believe it is, and if you better understood just how hard it can be to avoid pregnancy then you might realize that.
this is all I am trying to say
white collar crime causes far more destruction to our system from the inside out then teenage mothers or families abusing the system as a means of survival
a rich white guy avoiding his taxes needs to be lumped into the welfare mothers category
I wasn't asking if you had conversations with the person that bought the house but if you talked with the section 8 folks... something like a "hey it seems your lawn is a bit overgrown, want to borrow my lawnmower"
and limiting section 8 "to certain properties" sounds like segregation in a new era... just saying
and crime has nothing to do with any of this especially welfare moms as you guys call them, did crime in your neighborhood go up cause of a few section 8 renters? So why bring it up?
What's that? You mean you & your partner weren't just completely irresponsible???
Oh that's priceless. So now I'm supposed to work a full time job, maintain my own home, then give my things over to let someone cut their grass? I don't think so. If their lawnmower took a dump, yeah I'd help out. But to simply not own one? Nope. Go rent a townhouse where it is cut for you. I seriously wish I could post pictures here. Let's see first they watered the new sod so it would take, then that stopped once the first water bill came in. Then the weeds got as high as the AC. The city had to come out to cut their weeds down. Then since the sod died the homeowner's association had to replace it. More money out of my pocket since someone can't take care of where they live. Not to mention the police being at these places multiple times a week.
This is from my own personal experience and I know NOT everyone having public aid is like that. However a few bad apples around me spoiled my outlook.
Yes it should be limited to certain porperties. They should not live in luxury, they can't even maintain the property when it is being paid for by someone else. They should be somewhere that they can maintain. It is like anything else in life, you don't live beyond your means.
Yes the crime was directly brought up by these renters. I'm sure the police reports and evictions are public records. You want the addresses? I can give you five.
Gotta love how it all becomes about "my money". :roll:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
There are US emigrants all over the world ya know... USA isn't the only country with immigrants. Should we also treat your citizens like shit?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you