What should be done with welfare mothers?
blackredyellow
Posts: 5,889
My wife and I were reading an article yesterday (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/region ... id=1222682) about a women who is suing a Massachusetts hospital because they apparently wrongfully sterilized her after having her ninth kid.
The women is unemployed, on disability and receives public assistance for some of the children she has custody of.
Between this story, and a friend's facebook rant Saturday about waiting in line at stores behind people wearing designer clothes and buying junkfood with foodstamp cards, or another friend (social worker) complaining about missing her kids while working over the holidays while dealing with deadbeat mothers who ignore their children while laying in bed all day "eating doritos and smoking marlboros", it made think angrily think about all of the lazy people living off everyone else.
I'm all for helping people and families who fall on tough times, but what can and should be done to people who continue to have kids that they obviously can't afford? or continue to milk the system because they know that it's easier than getting a job and supporting themselves?
The women is unemployed, on disability and receives public assistance for some of the children she has custody of.
Between this story, and a friend's facebook rant Saturday about waiting in line at stores behind people wearing designer clothes and buying junkfood with foodstamp cards, or another friend (social worker) complaining about missing her kids while working over the holidays while dealing with deadbeat mothers who ignore their children while laying in bed all day "eating doritos and smoking marlboros", it made think angrily think about all of the lazy people living off everyone else.
I'm all for helping people and families who fall on tough times, but what can and should be done to people who continue to have kids that they obviously can't afford? or continue to milk the system because they know that it's easier than getting a job and supporting themselves?
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“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
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"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
1. Don't judge them. (Which is not to say that you are, only that some people do.)
2. Try to understand their situations and how they got into them.
3. Treat them with the same respect we think we deserve.
4. Provide the education and resources they (and their children) need to create a better life for themselves and their children.
5. Most importantly, provide the education & resources women need to prevent themselves from becoming welfare mothers in the first place.
6. Hold the fathers accountable too.
7. Don't forget about the innocent children who are at the center of the controversy.
I agree that it's a complicated situation and think it's really important to always remember that instead of just placing blame.
As for what the fathers can do, maybe they can't do "enough," but they can do plenty. They can share the responsibility, which means providing not only whatever money they can provide, but also investing the time to care for the children.
what a concept.
So then, what does treating them with respect really mean?
the idea that they are lazy, taking advantage of, good for nothing ETC
all that shit should be thrown out.
treat them as human beings first...if they abuse the system after, deal with it.
Treat them as you would like to be treated. Have empathy. Have compassion. Don't judge. Don't assume to understand their circumstances. Et cetera.
Know the facts, before assuming these people bought all that stuff. They are probably borrowing the cars.
MANY people obviously are unable to grasp the concept the children cost money to raise, and when there's a tax credit for having more kids, it's easily abused. The system allows people to not take responsibility. But at the same time, many of these mothers are not mentally healthy so it's not a black and white issue.
Helping someone get back on their feet can get them out of the welfare hole.
My daughter has Down syndrome and has Medicaid, she is susceptible to have health issues, some more serious than others. Should we dress the part? If there were 3 children on Medicaid, I can see how one might make assumptions, but it's hard to say why people are on it. It's not just welfare recipients.
1. Affordable, accessible contraceptive medications, devices, & procedures for both women & men.
2. Comprehensive sex education for both girls & boys.
3. Programs that teach boys & girls refusal skills, communication skills, and how to have good self esteem.
4. Programs that teach parenting skills, to both women & men.
5. Policies that support parents in the workforce, such as requirements for maternity & paternity leave, requirements that women must have a safe, clean place to breastfeed or pump at work, etc.
6. Affordable, accessible, quality childcare for everyone.
They also need to closely examine their own values about reproductive issues like sex, family planning, parenthood, adoption, and abortion... and strive to understand the multitude of values and circumstances of others.
All the guys she had sex with should be sterilized as well. If that's nine different guys, get out nine shiny knives and sterilize them against their wills. I'm down with that. What should we do with silly women? Anything we want...and the silly guys get the kudos and a good laugh.
just black women tho right? and they have to be poor. poor black women shouldn't breed in your society, is that what you're proposing?
The first-world countries with toxic lifestyles are already reproducing at less than replacement levels. We are only a small fraction as fertile as our ancestors. Young adults are becoming more and more infertile. I don't think we'll be having this discussion in twenty years, because I predict that ginormous numbers of our children will be unable to reproduce.
How we got here: The women's liberation movement in the 1960s, along with a declining economy in the 70s, made most women go to work outside the home. The government benefited in two ways: It got income taxes from two adult workers in every household. And children spent more time than ever away from both parents, being indoctrinated in state schools. Even Pearl Jam's friend Gloria Steinham has admitted that the CIA funded her.
The legalisation of abortion in 1973 (the very year I was born!) suddenly made abortion a common method of birth control. When it was illegal, it was very rare. The huge majority of women who had illegal abortions were white. Abortion was not an issue in black or hispanic communities. But legal abortions were targeted primarily at black women. [Watch the documentary Maafa 21 on YouTube for an excellent history of how Margaret Sanger's eugenics society became Planned Parenthood.] Abortion is so socially acceptable that in 2008, MORE BLACK WOMEN HAD ABORTIONS THAN LIVE BIRTHS!!! The eugenicists' wet dream!
'Welfare' has always been notorious at breaking up families: It was only paid to women with no man in the household. If a woman married, she could not get any financial help. So welfare purposely keeps women isolated and poor. If she has to work or take mandated classes to receive the money, the kids go into gov't approved 'day care' facilities, further separating mother and child.
Fraud? That is another problem altogether. Jobs? There are no jobs any longer! The globalists have packed up our industries and moved the jobs away forever.
I was looking more for what services you believe need to be given and when do those services end.
I posted later about some of the services I think should be offered for the parents:
1. Affordable, accessible contraceptive medications, devices, & procedures for both women & men.
2. Comprehensive sex education for both girls & boys.
3. Programs that teach boys & girls refusal skills, communication skills, and how to have good self esteem.
4. Programs that teach parenting skills, to both women & men.
5. Policies that support parents in the workforce, such as requirements for maternity & paternity leave, requirements that women must have a safe, clean place to breastfeed or pump at work, etc.
6. Affordable, accessible, quality childcare for everyone.
As for Medicaid, food stamps, etc., I think we need to remember that those services are primarily for the children and I think children should have whatever services they need for as long as they need them.
What do you do with a welfare parent that is abusing the system though? That is already on welfare and has more children? That uses foodstamps to pay for twinkies and then the cash in their pocket to buy the cigarettes and booze? Not that this is anyway the majority, but it does happen. So, what do you do? DO you turn a blind eye and say, well the $ is for the kids we can't hold them accountable?
If you are accepting $ from the government I believe specific, stringent rules must be followed or else you lose your benefits.
I think the root of this question really gets back to people's assumptions about abuse of the system, and I think that's the first problem to address. How do we define abuse of the system and how do we really know who's abusing it? I think most accusations of abuse are based on assumptions and judegements, which I believe is completely inappropriate & disrespectful.
If you define abuse of the system as having more children once you're in the system, that brings up a whole can of worms about values and resources, etc. Regarding resources, the U.S. has one of the highest unintended pregnancy rates in the developed world (50%), with poor women having a much higher rate than wealthier women - and the disparity is increasing. This is because poor women don't have good enough access to affordable, reliable birth control. So if you think poor women having children is a problem, then I think you have to work to address this issue.
And if a woman receives food stamps to buy her children food and you see her one day use them to buy Twinkies and you have a problem with that, I think that's another issue or perception & values, first and foremost. Are you suggesting that poor kids should never get to eat Twinkies like their wealthier counterparts?
So, basically, I think our self-righteous, judgemental, assumptions are the main problem. Maybe we should look inward before pointing fingers.
Again, that's not to say that abuse doesn't happen. Abuse happens in every system. I believe is specific, stringent rules, but I also don't think we should punish the children for the faults of the parents. What kind of rules do you suggest and, more importantly, how do you suggest we enforce them without compromising the welfare of the children?
Not sure, that's why I was picking your brain. It's tough to do what really should be done, because of the potential effect on the children. Of course, if you look at the system today and you see how many children that are raised in welfare families end up on assistance their entire lives, it's pretty easy to see that whatever is happening now is not working and the system in enabling.
Okay, well let's think specifically about what behaviors we want to prevent. If we want to prevent people from buying Twinkies with food stamps, we could probably make rules about what kinds of foods food stamps can be used for. Or we could provide the food itself, instead of just the money to buy the food (though that would likely get complicated).
What if what you want to prevent is someone who clearly cannot financially support the children that they have (and are on public assistance), having more children. Or if you want to prevent someone using welfare money for LCD TV's and rims while their children are running down the street in the cold with ripped clothes and not wearing shoes?
In the end, you can put as many restrictions and safeguards on any system that you want, but it still comes back to the individual people.
I know some people who are on some form of public assistance, who do try, and do work hard, but because of some poor choices in the past (and present) or whatever, they can't seem to get it together for long enough periods of time.
But a lot of the people who I know (including some family), and people who I deal with (granted, I don't know the whole story with some of them), there just seems to be an amazing lack of motivation to better themselves and just rely on public assistance. Along with that, is the seeming lack of life planning or consequences to their actions... they know that public assistance is there, and seemingly always will be.
You can talk about accessibility of conception, and education, but a lot of people just don't seem to have any desire or care to act responsibly. Even look at public housing... A friend of mine is a public housing cop in Pittsburgh, and you should hear some of his horror stories... people get apartments and housing for free or next to nothing, and don't take care of them.
You made a good point about making assumptions, but it's easy to get angry when you see people who seemingly have many of the material possessions that we have, but we are the ones working long hours and making sacrifices, and they are just getting a check every month for doing nothing.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm all for a safety net, especially when children are involved, but at some point one has to start to wonder if the children aren't worse off staying with these parents instead of being put somewhere else. Again... I don't have the answer, and the problem is that, things being what they are, the system has to provide a one-size fits all solution for situations of many sizes, so it's better to err on the side of humanitarianism, even if I'm a chump far more often than I'd like. That said, don't tell me that I'm not compassionate when I say that I want to yank out the benefits and children from some able-bodied lush who's too freakin' lazy to get a job. Don't tell me I have to "understand" their plight. Screw that... it's best to have sympathy, but if I could figure out how to cherrypick them out, damn straight I would. I've no problems with my tax dollars paying for addiction treatment, but until they're ready for that, let them hit their bottom on their dime instead of mine. Same with sober lazy folks. I'm not a huge fan of going to the office everyday, but that's life. Suck it up and stop taking my $ because washing dishes or mowing lawns isn't their preferred career.
So, I see both sides, and have no viable answer. However, if someone wants to give me a gov't grant of a million $ or so, I'll get right on it :P
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the term "Welfare mother" should be taken out of our lexicon, it is a term from the 80's and 90's. Welfare does not exist anymore. Most of us should be old enough to remember our favorite president's concession to the Republicans in the form of welfare reform.
I am a social worker and I have worked in some of Chicago's worst communities including Cabrini Green and others. I could count on one hand the number of mothers that received cash assistance (I do not consider food to be welfare).
If they receive SSI (disability for someone that does not have enough work credits for SSDI) they get approved by your state as someone that has a debilitating illness either physical or mental. It is not easy to get approved and many who should be are not. You should be mad at your state not the individual. Additional right now the monthly pay out for SSI is about $637/month (in Illinois) try to rent an apartment and live on that amount.
On a side note... how is that when a banker cheats the system we give them a slap on the wrist and more of our money but when a poor person cheats the system we cry foul, want to cut them off and point out all their flaws and shortcomings.
The issue of poverty goes much deeper then someone having nice clothes, what they eat and who they fuck. Poverty has become a culture in our society that breeds more poverty. People are reduced to learning how to survive by any means necessary. But they are not the culprits they are the victims. Additionally and I know this will make some mad but urban poverty is rooted in racism. Most low income communities be it public housing or other were developed during the height of racial tension in this country. It speaks to a larger problem of our society not an individual. The woman in the article was probably only repeating behaviors that she learned form her mother and grandmother.
Lastly as others have said not judging is key. When I was in middle school I lived mostly with my divorced single struggling mother. We lived on foodstamps and struggled month to month for essentials like light, phones and transportation. I went to a nice private school that my father paid for. I will never forget when one of my teachers got on her soapbox in middle of class and starting "hating" on people in line at the grocery store buying junk food with their stamps. The teacher did not know that I was being raised on foodstamps and yes sometimes we bought pop and lucky charms. I will never forget the judgment that this teach in a "catholic school" put on others. BTW they do put restrictions on what you can buy with stamps.... only food, no toilet paper no household items. You can only get uncooked food... no deli items, no rotisserie chickens. And I am willing to bet that no "poor person" is buying brand name lucking charms, they are getting the bulk size in the bag.
BTW it is a lot cheaper to give someone a few bucks for beer then have him go to a store to steal... which he will do if he is an alcoholic. The cost on him going to jail and through the criminal justice system is far greater then the beer money.
false there is a 60 month lifetime cap on cash assistance per household... that means if a mother and her two teenage mothering children all get cash assistance that means 1 month equals 3 and the 60 months will pass fast.
you are assuming that people in public housing living for free know how to take care of an apartment.....
it is sad but many people need to be taught home management. You probably learned it from watching your parents and doing your own chores, now what if your parents had not modeled that for you.......