I get it. Everyone got it. The Cavs got it with Lebron. Minnesota got it with Wiggins. Hinke didn't invent tanking, though he may have perfected it.
I don't think you can separate the process from the outcome, as you can't in any other walk of life. If I fail at my job, I can't tell my boss "well, I approached the project the right way, even if the client despises it". Sure I did the right thing, but it wasn't a success.
Oh here we go, I mean ya can't argue the answer is gray while also arguing for black and white. Yet they(Hinkie) did succeed. They just came off a season with the best record in the East playing nearly .700 ball, and Hinkie never got to see it to this point in "The Process" because the rug was taken out from under him? And all the rest of us can do is pretend to think Hinkie would have just traded picks ad infinitum blah blah blah.
I am not arguing black and white. They drafted Noel, Saric, Fultz, Okafor, the Syracuse kid, and now Simmons. I am sure there are others. Some of those were clearly not mistakes, some of them were, but all of them clearly didn't pan out as they had hoped. Of course they were never going to hit on all of them, but it would be difficult to tank for that long, have all of those picks and if they win a championships have literally 1 of the tanking picks on the team.
Yes, of course Hinke did a great job getting lottery picks, but we're looking at literally 1 of them potentially contributing to a championship
Hell...I'll go complete opposite end of the spectrum. Signing Gerrit Cole was absolutely the right move for the Yankees to make. If they don't win a world series, was it a failure? Yeah, also of course.
Honestly, with all the mistakes, misses and drama the fact that they still are in the hunt for a championship is even more validation for the idea of The Process.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I will give you Fultz and Okafor. Noel and Saric were contributing pieces that turned into pieces that then turned into other pieces.
At the end of the day The Process produced your two franchise superstars (Ben and Joel). Unfortunately one of them is a superstar that's a complete mindfuck.
He definitely didn't just do a good job attaining lottery picks. It's not a surprise that once those superstars were on the court together that they made the playoffs and got better and better.
And I certainly wouldn't equate the business world to how the success of a sportzball team works, though a lot of people like to pretend they can. In the business world you give a client whatever they want immediately and dance to whatever tune they want till the day the checks stop. How the P&L works, and what a client wants, is the same as the operations of a sports organization. And certainly not how the sportzball side (the actual child's game being played) of it work.
Businesses can achieve success without achieving the highly unlikely feat of being literally the best business out of 30 or so in their industry - they just need to make money is all. It's not the same at all.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
The idea that if a signing doesn't produce a championship is a failure is completely a fucking Yankees Fan Thing to say.
All you do is put yourself in the best possible situation to win a title consistently, year after year. To think a success is, and only is, what results in a title is ridiculous.
Cliff lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie.
Lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie.
Part of the point, too - so much has been convoluted with more garbage post-Hinkie that the overall theme/messaging has been bastardized.
I've had a shit ton of coffee today (hence the posts!), so I'll poke a bear - it's funny that someone here likes to laugh at the process because it didn't produce a title (not you, Cliff!) while also slurping Andy Reid (definitely not you, Cliff!) for consistently being successful and not winning a title. And further to the point you can argue Andy also teared down before building up, and definitely the way Joe Banner and Howie now value players (football is also wayyyy easier to rebuild of course). If anything you'd think this person would have the mental capacity to align support for both of these things, or at least connect the dots.
Cliff lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie.
Fair point by those guys, but they haven't even gotten to the conference finals.
Yeah, I get that, but point was more he's not here, even though he's contributing. That got them Butler, which great, but also clearly didn't work since he's a shit head.
Not really talking about Hinke vs. Colangelo, though I get that aspect. Just where they started and where they are.
I don't really think I am disagreeing with you guys all that much. I just don't get the pounding the chest the process was a roaring success that people still do, when the team hasn't even sniffed the finals.
But I think that's social media and the internets. Because I think even the Rights to Ricky Sanchez guys have shut up. I think it was more that those guys absolutely beat their chest and bounced off the walls making sure everyone heard them Pre-Kawhi-Crazy-3-Pointer Shot.
At the same time no one's convincing me that The Process didn't work. Without it we don't have a generational, top-3,-5 player in the league.
Is it a shame that this man might possibly have his limbs hacked to the ground and put a shit ton of mileage on the odometer without winning a title? Maybe!
But we don't know. Best thing the Sixers did since hiring Hinkie is hiring his mentor.
Businesses can achieve success without achieving the highly unlikely feat of being literally the best business out of 30 or so in their industry - they just need to make money is all. It's not the same at all.
This is true and it has clearly been a business success. The Wells Fargo is packed and remodeled and there is more sixers gear around town than I have seen in 15 years since moving here
But I think that's social media and the internets. Because I think even the Rights to Ricky Sanchez guys have shut up. I think it was more that those guys absolutely beat their chest and bounced off the walls making sure everyone heard them Pre-Kawhi-Crazy-3-Pointer Shot.
At the same time no one's convincing me that The Process didn't work. Without it we don't have a generational, top-3,-5 player in the league.
Is it a shame that this man might possibly have his limbs hacked to the ground and put a shit ton of mileage on the odometer without winning a title? Maybe!
But we don't know. Best thing the Sixers did since hiring Hinkie is hiring his mentor.
Which is why it's funny watching people act as if the franchise is dead right now. I have a lot faith in Morey figuring this shit out.
Gotta throw on a RTRS pod soon. Avoided it mostly this summer. But...man, will that be a good listen while mowing the lawn later this week!
But I think that's social media and the internets. Because I think even the Rights to Ricky Sanchez guys have shut up. I think it was more that those guys absolutely beat their chest and bounced off the walls making sure everyone heard them Pre-Kawhi-Crazy-3-Pointer Shot.
At the same time no one's convincing me that The Process didn't work. Without it we don't have a generational, top-3,-5 player in the league.
Is it a shame that this man might possibly have his limbs hacked to the ground and put a shit ton of mileage on the odometer without winning a title? Maybe!
But we don't know. Best thing the Sixers did since hiring Hinkie is hiring his mentor.
Which is why it's funny watching people act as if the franchise is dead right now. I have a lot faith in Morey figuring this shit out.
Gotta throw on a RTRS pod soon. Avoided it mostly this summer. But...man, will that be a good listen while mowing the lawn later this week!
The Franchise isn't dead. The east is a mess and if they can find one good piece I have them going deep in the playoffs.
Brooklyn can't stay healthy. If they do then enjoy 2nd place until they aren't.
I am not arguing black and white. They drafted Noel, Saric, Fultz, Okafor, the Syracuse kid, and now Simmons. I am sure there are others. Some of those were clearly not mistakes, some of them were, but all of them clearly didn't pan out as they had hoped.
Of course if you look at things through the lens of drafting as a whole in the NBA, Philly hasn't done too poorly during this period (to me Fultz, including trading a first to the Celtics to jump from 3 to 1 and ignoring Tatum was the only huge mistake, Simmons is only a mistake because of his mental make up)...
Look at some of #1 overall picks for the last 20 years..
Kwame Brown 2001 Andrew Bogut 2005 Andrea Bargnani 2006 Greg Oden 2007 John Wall 2010 Anthony Bennett 2013 Andrew Wiggins 2104 Markelle Fultz 2017
That's 8 guys the last 20 years who are either complete busts (Oden, Bennett, Fultz) or nothing more than journeymen (Brown, Bogut, Bargnani, Wiggins) and one who was an all star but derailed by injury. That's with the first overall pick. True superstars don't come around that often in the NBA draft. Getting Embiid was a big win for the process Simmons should have been but he's badly flawed mentally. Honestly they haven't done a poor job (again aside from Fultz), the Simmons situation this summer is just making it look a lot worse at the moment.
From the moment that Ben Simmons passed up a wide-open dunk in the Sixers’ Game 7 loss to the Atlanta Hawks on their home floor, the Sixers and Simmons have appeared headed towards an eventual, public divorce.
The question all summer long has seemingly been one of when, not if. When would the quality of offers that the Sixers were looking for start coming in? Or when would Daryl Morey lower his asking price to facilitate a trade? And if neither of those happens, when would Rich Paul, Simmons’ super agent, try to make things uncomfortable to help expedite the process?
There’s almost no way to argue that this is a positive development for the Sixers. The question becomes where on the scale, from annoyance to unmitigated disaster, it truly falls.
The segment of the fan base where this is truly disastrous would be for those who were hoping that the Sixers and Simmons could work out their differences and keep the union going long term. Some words, when spoken, can’t be taken back, and this has certainly steered the relationship into that territory. That’s not entirely surprising — The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported less than 24 hours earlier that a Simmons deal was widely perceived to be more of a when, not if, question — but this is certainly a tough development for those who had been holding on to the slimmest of hope that this could be salvaged.
It is also undoubtedly a negative development for the Sixers’ ability to maximize Simmons’ trade value. Once the draft and free agency came and went, the ideal world from the Sixers’ perspective was to get Simmons back on the court, not only to remind other teams of what he does well but also to maintain the appearance that this is a tenable situation and stave off any impression that the Sixers are stuck squarely between a rock and a hard place. Neither acts of rehabilitation — of Simmons’ trade value or of the Sixers’ leverage — are helped by Tuesday’s public developments.
If Simmons’ trade value can’t be significantly rehabilitated, the question now becomes how much negative impact this news has.
At this point, it’s worth mentioning how unusual of a situation this is. In recent years, the team for whom the star played continued to hold significant leverage in trade negotiations, almost irrespective of how the situations around them deteriorated. From Anthony Davis to James Harden, from “That’s All Folks!” T-shirts to cross-country club-hopping instead of reporting to training camp, teams were able to weather the absurdity and continue to get fair value for their superstars.
But Simmons isn’t a superstar, and he’s not going to have the appeal of Davis or Harden. His trade value even before his public wilting in the playoffs was narrower than that of a traditional All-Star caliber player, and that certainly has not changed with the developments of the last few months. Across the league, he’s more often referred to as a floor raiser than the final piece of a dynasty. That has value, to be sure, but it doesn’t put the Sixers in the same position of strength that the Pelicans or Rockets enjoyed.
The Sixers are also significantly different than your typical team that’s in the midst of selling off an All-Star caliber talent. Perennial 50-win teams that have an MVP candidate aren’t typically in the position where they’re auctioning off their second-best player to the highest bidder. Usually, a team trading a player of Simmons’ caliber would be doing so because they failed to put a winner around him.
When the Pelicans traded Davis for Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and a bunch of picks, they weren’t just banking on Ingram or Ball growing into players who impact winning, but also had the knowledge that if they didn’t, there’s a chance they could get some lottery luck and land their star that way — which they did with Zion Williamson in 2019. The win-win is baked into the calculus. The Rockets can wait to see if one of their seemingly endless future picks has lottery-ball luck.
The Sixers, trying to build a winner around an in-his-prime Joel Embiid, aren’t afforded the grace period that teams trading a player of Simmons’ stature typically enjoy. That substantially complicates the Sixers’ situation, especially since most of the teams that would be interested in Simmons aren’t flush with ready-now players capable of contributing to winning right away. They’re teams such as the Timberwolves, who are in the cellar.
Simmons’ unique game makes the list of teams interested in offering fair value to acquire him more narrow than that of your typical All-Star available on the trade market, and the Sixers’ unique position as a contender auctioning off an All-Star caliber player makes the list of teams that have what they need more narrow than typical, as well. That’s offset a little bit by Simmons having four more years on his contract, which is far more team control than an acquiring team typically has. Everything about this situation is weird and unprecedented.
So, do the Sixers need to simply take the best offer that’s on the table right now? I’m not so sure that’s the case, at least not yet. The Sixers, as long as Embiid is reasonably healthy, should be a playoff-caliber team. The goal isn’t to take the steps to have the best supporting cast available to him by the season opener on Oct. 20, but to have the most talent possible by the time the playoff run starts. That’s done by maximizing the Simmons trade, however possible.
There’s nothing that’s likely to happen between now and the start of training camp that will provide a boost to Simmons’ trade value. And Simmons being a distraction in training camp if he’s still here, while annoying at the moment, may not be all that damaging to his value around the NBA. League executives are already well aware of Simmons’ strengths and weaknesses, and the holdout isn’t likely to decrease interest from the teams already intrigued by Simmons.
What could be impacted is the Sixers’ leverage, as teams are now left with every incentive to hold back from making their best offer to see if the discomfort of the situation forces the Sixers to accept an offer they wouldn’t have considered even two weeks ago. But leverage is more fickle than value. How much leverage could be recouped by the Sixers showing that they’re willing to live through the awkwardness to maximize their return on a Simmons trade? How much leverage do the Sixers gain if something outside of their control happens to force another team into the Simmons sweepstakes, which then forces the rest of the interested suitors to step forward with more earnest offers?
Which makes this situation sort of fascinating. Could Morey call Simmons’ bluff and see whether he would actually follow through on his threat to not report to camp? If Simmons does cave in and reports to camp, would Morey be willing to tolerate an exceptionally awkward situation with Simmons around the team if he thought it could buy him a few weeks — or perhaps even months — to maximize his trade value? If Morey does pull the trigger on a trade, how much leeway does he have to take back an offer full of draft picks and young players who may not help the Sixers in the short term but could be flipped for players who would help at the trade deadline in February?
Morey didn’t inherit a perfectly rosy situation when he took over the Sixers a little more than 10 months ago. No lead executive does, otherwise the job wouldn’t be available. But the Sixers had an MVP candidate in Embiid and another assumed star in Simmons, and a few moves around the margins got them to the point where they had the best regular-season record in the conference. The path forward has become substantially trickier in the blink of an eye, and Morey’s tenure in Philadelphia could be heavily defined by the next steps that he takes.
Could Tyrese Maxey be included in a Ben Simmons deal? (Bill Streicher / USA Today)
One of the reports to come out of Tuesday’s developments was that Paul, who represents not only Simmons but also second-year guard Tyrese Maxey, would like Maxey off of the team, as well.
Maxey being included in a potential Simmons trade was always a possibility, mostly because Maxey has significant positive trade value, and if the Sixers were to maximize the quality of the player they get back in a trade, including Maxey was a realistic way of doing so.
But Paul demanding Maxey be included in a trade is a development that I didn’t see coming, in large part because it’s not what’s best for Maxey himself.
Maxey’s value offensively comes from his ability to create in the half court off the dribble, something he showed glimpses of during his rookie season and then took to Vegas to dominate during his two games at NBA Summer League last month. Playing alongside Simmons for the next three years would not only force Maxey to share ballhandling responsibilities with a player in Simmons, who demands the ball in his hands, but would also cramp the spacing that Maxey’s dribble-drive game feeds off. If Simmons were to be traded and Maxey remained with the team, he’d instantly be placed in a better position to showcase his talents and succeed — and thus on the path toward earning a bigger following contract than if he were to continue to play alongside Simmons.
It’s Paul’s job to look out for the best interests of his client, not to take whatever petty squabbles he has with the team and use Maxey’s career as a pawn in those battles. And if Paul can’t do that, then the decision ultimately rests on Maxey to hire an agent who is focused on Maxey’s own interests.
This is one bluff that, if I were the Sixers, I would have no fear calling nonsense on. It comes off as saber-rattling from an agent overplaying his hand and overlooking the needs of his client.
Simmons’ contract extension was not a mistake
Simmons signed his five-year, maximum rookie extension back in 2019, days before his 23rd birthday, as he was fresh off his first All-Star season. The contract just kicked in this past year, leaving four years (and roughly $140 million) left.
Given that he still had a year left on his rookie contract when the extension was signed, and given what now looks like an imminent divorce just a year into the new deal, it has left some to question whether it was wise to lock the flawed Simmons into such a high-dollar, long-term deal.
But just because Simmons hasn’t developed as expected does not mean the Sixers would have been better off letting him walk.
Some people will try to argue that “Simmons would have more trade value if he were making $20 million instead of $30-plus.” Well, duh. Decreasing the salary of any productive player in the league would make them worth more in a trade. But there was never a world where that was actually a legitimate possibility. Simmons wasn’t accepting a less-than-max extension because there was a 100 percent chance he would get a maximum contract offer from some team (any team capable of doing so, really) if the Sixers allowed him to hit the open market.
The Sixers had three choices with Simmons: offer him the max, let him walk or preempt the market and look to trade him before his warts became even more glaring. That’s it. Those were the three options.
Letting Simmons walk in no way would have put the Sixers in a better position than they are currently in.
Even with Simmons’ entire $33 million salary off the books, they’d still be over the $112 million salary cap for this season. And even if they were under the cap, it’s tough for a non-destination market like Philadelphia to lure max-level free agents, something we saw play out firsthand when Bryan Colangelo and his regime made doing so a centerpiece of their strategy in the summers of 2017 and 2018.
With no way to replace him in free agency, the only way to make a cogent argument that signing Simmons was a mistake is to contend that he has negative trade value, that the Sixers will have to give up assets in a trade just to get off his contract. Despite how far the perception of Simmons has fallen over the last few months, that is very much not the case. The Sixers could trade Simmons to the Timberwolves for positive assets in return right now if they wanted to. But the Timberwolves don’t have enough positive trade assets to tempt the Sixers to do so. When you start getting into phrasing like that, you’re not talking about a negative value contract.
What is fair to say is that Simmons doesn’t have as much value now as he did two years ago, and it would be tough to dispute that. Given that the marriage between Simmons and the Sixers appears to be irreconcilable, it’s not out of line to say that the Sixers could have fetched more in a trade if they had been able to predict this ahead of time.
But that would have been an exceptionally tough decision for the Sixers (or any franchise, really) to arrive at. Simmons was a 22-year-old who the Sixers had just invested the No. 1 pick in the 2016 draft on, coming off an All-Star season with a decade of high-level play ahead of him. The Sixers didn’t need massive, outlier-level growth from Simmons to reach a very high level as a team; they just needed him to not completely stagnate (or, arguably, regress) as a half-court offensive player. It was a reasonable ask from the team.
Given how closely the Sixers were able to work with Simmons in the early days of his career, they were certainly in a better position to predict Simmons’ development than you, me or any other team was. Even so, that would have been a tough conclusion to arrive at so early on in Simmons’ career.
But after five years of offensive stagnation, three playoff runs featuring second-round ineptitude and two public stints on the trade block, it’s undeniable that moving on early would have left the Sixers in a better position going forward. Instead, the Sixers have to find a way to make the most of the current situation and move on from the Simmons era.
Simmons clearly surrounds himself with yes-men who purposely feed his ego with BS - it's quite sad.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Ben Simmons is still a member of the Philadelphia 76ers despite the fact that both parties seem to agree that a parting of ways is in everyone’s best interest. Reports have indicated the team is shopping the All-Star guard/forward around, while Simmons apparently sat down with the Sixers’ decision-makers recently and expressed that he wants a trade so badly that he’d skip training camp.
Everything happening around Simmons looks like it rubs Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal the wrong way. Barkley joined Shaq, Nischelle Turner, and Spice Adams on an episode of The Big Podcast with Shaq, and when the conversation turned to Simmons, both Hall of Fame inductees expressed their frustration with how things are going with him.
“I’m disappointed in Ben Simmons,” Barkley said. “When you give somebody $200 million to dribble a stupid basketball, and the only thing you ask him is be better as a player, and their first response is, ‘I don’t wanna play here anymore,’ that disappoints me as a player, that disappoints me as a fan. They’re not saying, ‘Hey, come over here and cut my grass,’ they’re saying, ‘Ben, we need you to learn how to shoot the basketball.'”
Shaq shared that sentiment, going as far as to tell Simmons he isn’t a great player.
“If you want to get to that next level, you have to be great, and to be great, you have to work on your game,” Shaq said. “Don’t be putting pictures on your Instagram of your Ferrari or what actress you hang around with. When you play in a town like Philadelphia, Boston, L.A., Miami, hard working towns, they don’t give a sh*t about none of that. They want you to come, work hard, and play hard.”
The Hall of Fame center then brought up Simmons’ Game 6 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Atlanta Hawks, saying that he looked into his eyes and saw a player who was “terrified of being fouled and missing free throws,” while Barkley expressed his annoyance at “the third year in a row they put up them bullsh*t jump shots during the summer.”
“A lot of these people, you hear from your followers how good you are, how great you are,” Shaq said to close. “But you’re hearing from some OGs right now: you ain’t that damn good. And I said what I said, and Chuck said what he said. If you don’t like it, do what you gotta do. But you ain’t that damn good.”
Ben Simmons is still a member of the Philadelphia 76ers despite the fact that both parties seem to agree that a parting of ways is in everyone’s best interest. Reports have indicated the team is shopping the All-Star guard/forward around, while Simmons apparently sat down with the Sixers’ decision-makers recently and expressed that he wants a trade so badly that he’d skip training camp.
Everything happening around Simmons looks like it rubs Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal the wrong way. Barkley joined Shaq, Nischelle Turner, and Spice Adams on an episode of The Big Podcast with Shaq, and when the conversation turned to Simmons, both Hall of Fame inductees expressed their frustration with how things are going with him.
“I’m disappointed in Ben Simmons,” Barkley said. “When you give somebody $200 million to dribble a stupid basketball, and the only thing you ask him is be better as a player, and their first response is, ‘I don’t wanna play here anymore,’ that disappoints me as a player, that disappoints me as a fan. They’re not saying, ‘Hey, come over here and cut my grass,’ they’re saying, ‘Ben, we need you to learn how to shoot the basketball.'”
Shaq shared that sentiment, going as far as to tell Simmons he isn’t a great player.
“If you want to get to that next level, you have to be great, and to be great, you have to work on your game,” Shaq said. “Don’t be putting pictures on your Instagram of your Ferrari or what actress you hang around with. When you play in a town like Philadelphia, Boston, L.A., Miami, hard working towns, they don’t give a sh*t about none of that. They want you to come, work hard, and play hard.”
The Hall of Fame center then brought up Simmons’ Game 6 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Atlanta Hawks, saying that he looked into his eyes and saw a player who was “terrified of being fouled and missing free throws,” while Barkley expressed his annoyance at “the third year in a row they put up them bullsh*t jump shots during the summer.”
“A lot of these people, you hear from your followers how good you are, how great you are,” Shaq said to close. “But you’re hearing from some OGs right now: you ain’t that damn good. And I said what I said, and Chuck said what he said. If you don’t like it, do what you gotta do. But you ain’t that damn good.”
Both these guys forgot their careers. Shaq got no better and used to fire line drives at the free throw line his whole career. Didn’t quite wrk on his game did he? And I already addressed Charles above.
Ben Simmons is still a member of the Philadelphia 76ers despite the fact that both parties seem to agree that a parting of ways is in everyone’s best interest. Reports have indicated the team is shopping the All-Star guard/forward around, while Simmons apparently sat down with the Sixers’ decision-makers recently and expressed that he wants a trade so badly that he’d skip training camp.
Everything happening around Simmons looks like it rubs Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal the wrong way. Barkley joined Shaq, Nischelle Turner, and Spice Adams on an episode of The Big Podcast with Shaq, and when the conversation turned to Simmons, both Hall of Fame inductees expressed their frustration with how things are going with him.
“I’m disappointed in Ben Simmons,” Barkley said. “When you give somebody $200 million to dribble a stupid basketball, and the only thing you ask him is be better as a player, and their first response is, ‘I don’t wanna play here anymore,’ that disappoints me as a player, that disappoints me as a fan. They’re not saying, ‘Hey, come over here and cut my grass,’ they’re saying, ‘Ben, we need you to learn how to shoot the basketball.'”
Shaq shared that sentiment, going as far as to tell Simmons he isn’t a great player.
“If you want to get to that next level, you have to be great, and to be great, you have to work on your game,” Shaq said. “Don’t be putting pictures on your Instagram of your Ferrari or what actress you hang around with. When you play in a town like Philadelphia, Boston, L.A., Miami, hard working towns, they don’t give a sh*t about none of that. They want you to come, work hard, and play hard.”
The Hall of Fame center then brought up Simmons’ Game 6 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Atlanta Hawks, saying that he looked into his eyes and saw a player who was “terrified of being fouled and missing free throws,” while Barkley expressed his annoyance at “the third year in a row they put up them bullsh*t jump shots during the summer.”
“A lot of these people, you hear from your followers how good you are, how great you are,” Shaq said to close. “But you’re hearing from some OGs right now: you ain’t that damn good. And I said what I said, and Chuck said what he said. If you don’t like it, do what you gotta do. But you ain’t that damn good.”
Both these guys forgot their careers. Shaq got no better and used to fire line drives at the free throw line his whole career. Didn’t quite wrk on his game did he? And I already addressed Charles above.
Lol what? Shaq is potentially a top 5 and at worst a top 10 player in this history of the game. No he didn’t work at all.
Ben Simmons is still a member of the Philadelphia 76ers despite the fact that both parties seem to agree that a parting of ways is in everyone’s best interest. Reports have indicated the team is shopping the All-Star guard/forward around, while Simmons apparently sat down with the Sixers’ decision-makers recently and expressed that he wants a trade so badly that he’d skip training camp.
Everything happening around Simmons looks like it rubs Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal the wrong way. Barkley joined Shaq, Nischelle Turner, and Spice Adams on an episode of The Big Podcast with Shaq, and when the conversation turned to Simmons, both Hall of Fame inductees expressed their frustration with how things are going with him.
“I’m disappointed in Ben Simmons,” Barkley said. “When you give somebody $200 million to dribble a stupid basketball, and the only thing you ask him is be better as a player, and their first response is, ‘I don’t wanna play here anymore,’ that disappoints me as a player, that disappoints me as a fan. They’re not saying, ‘Hey, come over here and cut my grass,’ they’re saying, ‘Ben, we need you to learn how to shoot the basketball.'”
Shaq shared that sentiment, going as far as to tell Simmons he isn’t a great player.
“If you want to get to that next level, you have to be great, and to be great, you have to work on your game,” Shaq said. “Don’t be putting pictures on your Instagram of your Ferrari or what actress you hang around with. When you play in a town like Philadelphia, Boston, L.A., Miami, hard working towns, they don’t give a sh*t about none of that. They want you to come, work hard, and play hard.”
The Hall of Fame center then brought up Simmons’ Game 6 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Atlanta Hawks, saying that he looked into his eyes and saw a player who was “terrified of being fouled and missing free throws,” while Barkley expressed his annoyance at “the third year in a row they put up them bullsh*t jump shots during the summer.”
“A lot of these people, you hear from your followers how good you are, how great you are,” Shaq said to close. “But you’re hearing from some OGs right now: you ain’t that damn good. And I said what I said, and Chuck said what he said. If you don’t like it, do what you gotta do. But you ain’t that damn good.”
Both these guys forgot their careers. Shaq got no better and used to fire line drives at the free throw line his whole career. Didn’t quite wrk on his game did he? And I already addressed Charles above.
Lol what? Shaq is potentially a top 5 and at worst a top 10 player in this history of the game. No he didn’t work at all.
Shaq is not close to top 5 of all time. In fact he might not be a top 5 Laker of all time: He’s not above Magic, Kobe, Kareem or Jerry West and don’t forget Wilt and Elgin Baylor are all timers that played for the Lakers. And that’s not even counting LeBron as a Laker. And Shaq never reached his full potential. He could have been the greatest he just was so dominate physically he didnt need the drive to be the greatest. With his body and athleticism he left a lot on the table. He could have averaged 40 a game if he wanted. He didn’t. And his free throw shooting was terrible. He was so bad they had to change the rules. He had no game outside two feet either. So uhh yea could have been better.
Ben Simmons is still a member of the Philadelphia 76ers despite the fact that both parties seem to agree that a parting of ways is in everyone’s best interest. Reports have indicated the team is shopping the All-Star guard/forward around, while Simmons apparently sat down with the Sixers’ decision-makers recently and expressed that he wants a trade so badly that he’d skip training camp.
Everything happening around Simmons looks like it rubs Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal the wrong way. Barkley joined Shaq, Nischelle Turner, and Spice Adams on an episode of The Big Podcast with Shaq, and when the conversation turned to Simmons, both Hall of Fame inductees expressed their frustration with how things are going with him.
“I’m disappointed in Ben Simmons,” Barkley said. “When you give somebody $200 million to dribble a stupid basketball, and the only thing you ask him is be better as a player, and their first response is, ‘I don’t wanna play here anymore,’ that disappoints me as a player, that disappoints me as a fan. They’re not saying, ‘Hey, come over here and cut my grass,’ they’re saying, ‘Ben, we need you to learn how to shoot the basketball.'”
Shaq shared that sentiment, going as far as to tell Simmons he isn’t a great player.
“If you want to get to that next level, you have to be great, and to be great, you have to work on your game,” Shaq said. “Don’t be putting pictures on your Instagram of your Ferrari or what actress you hang around with. When you play in a town like Philadelphia, Boston, L.A., Miami, hard working towns, they don’t give a sh*t about none of that. They want you to come, work hard, and play hard.”
The Hall of Fame center then brought up Simmons’ Game 6 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Atlanta Hawks, saying that he looked into his eyes and saw a player who was “terrified of being fouled and missing free throws,” while Barkley expressed his annoyance at “the third year in a row they put up them bullsh*t jump shots during the summer.”
“A lot of these people, you hear from your followers how good you are, how great you are,” Shaq said to close. “But you’re hearing from some OGs right now: you ain’t that damn good. And I said what I said, and Chuck said what he said. If you don’t like it, do what you gotta do. But you ain’t that damn good.”
Both these guys forgot their careers. Shaq got no better and used to fire line drives at the free throw line his whole career. Didn’t quite wrk on his game did he? And I already addressed Charles above.
Doesn't mean they are wrong.
I Know All The Rules But The Rules Do Not Know Me.
Yeah Shaq was so overrated when we rolled over the Lakers in 2001. Oh wait...
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Comments
Yes, of course Hinke did a great job getting lottery picks, but we're looking at literally 1 of them potentially contributing to a championship
Hell...I'll go complete opposite end of the spectrum. Signing Gerrit Cole was absolutely the right move for the Yankees to make. If they don't win a world series, was it a failure? Yeah, also of course.
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At the end of the day The Process produced your two franchise superstars (Ben and Joel). Unfortunately one of them is a superstar that's a complete mindfuck.
He definitely didn't just do a good job attaining lottery picks. It's not a surprise that once those superstars were on the court together that they made the playoffs and got better and better.
And I certainly wouldn't equate the business world to how the success of a sportzball team works, though a lot of people like to pretend they can. In the business world you give a client whatever they want immediately and dance to whatever tune they want till the day the checks stop. How the P&L works, and what a client wants, is the same as the operations of a sports organization. And certainly not how the sportzball side (the actual child's game being played) of it work.
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All you do is put yourself in the best possible situation to win a title consistently, year after year. To think a success is, and only is, what results in a title is ridiculous.
Cliff lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie.
I've had a shit ton of coffee today (hence the posts!), so I'll poke a bear - it's funny that someone here likes to laugh at the process because it didn't produce a title (not you, Cliff!) while also slurping Andy Reid (definitely not you, Cliff!) for consistently being successful and not winning a title. And further to the point you can argue Andy also teared down before building up, and definitely the way Joe Banner and Howie now value players (football is also wayyyy easier to rebuild of course). If anything you'd think this person would have the mental capacity to align support for both of these things, or at least connect the dots.
Yeah, I get that, but point was more he's not here, even though he's contributing. That got them Butler, which great, but also clearly didn't work since he's a shit head.
Not really talking about Hinke vs. Colangelo, though I get that aspect. Just where they started and where they are.
I don't really think I am disagreeing with you guys all that much. I just don't get the pounding the chest the process was a roaring success that people still do, when the team hasn't even sniffed the finals.
At the same time no one's convincing me that The Process didn't work. Without it we don't have a generational, top-3,-5 player in the league.
Is it a shame that this man might possibly have his limbs hacked to the ground and put a shit ton of mileage on the odometer without winning a title? Maybe!
But we don't know. Best thing the Sixers did since hiring Hinkie is hiring his mentor.
Gotta throw on a RTRS pod soon. Avoided it mostly this summer. But...man, will that be a good listen while mowing the lawn later this week!
Brooklyn can't stay healthy. If they do then enjoy 2nd place until they aren't.
Look at some of #1 overall picks for the last 20 years..
Kwame Brown 2001
Andrew Bogut 2005
Andrea Bargnani 2006
Greg Oden 2007
John Wall 2010
Anthony Bennett 2013
Andrew Wiggins 2104
Markelle Fultz 2017
That's 8 guys the last 20 years who are either complete busts (Oden, Bennett, Fultz) or nothing more than journeymen (Brown, Bogut, Bargnani, Wiggins) and one who was an all star but derailed by injury.
That's with the first overall pick.
True superstars don't come around that often in the NBA draft. Getting Embiid was a big win for the process Simmons should have been but he's badly flawed mentally.
Honestly they haven't done a poor job (again aside from Fultz), the Simmons situation this summer is just making it look a lot worse at the moment.
https://theathletic.com/2802291/2021/09/01/ben-simmons-trade-demand-everything-about-this-situation-is-weird-and-unprecedented-its-outcome-might-be-too/
Or for you cheapskates:
Ben Simmons’ trade demand: Everything about this situation is weird and unprecedented. Its outcome might be, too
From the moment that Ben Simmons passed up a wide-open dunk in the Sixers’ Game 7 loss to the Atlanta Hawks on their home floor, the Sixers and Simmons have appeared headed towards an eventual, public divorce.
The question all summer long has seemingly been one of when, not if. When would the quality of offers that the Sixers were looking for start coming in? Or when would Daryl Morey lower his asking price to facilitate a trade? And if neither of those happens, when would Rich Paul, Simmons’ super agent, try to make things uncomfortable to help expedite the process?
It appears we have an answer to one of those questions, at least, as sources confirm that Simmons has informed the Sixers that his preference is to be traded and that he does not intend to report to training camp. Keith Pompey of The Philadelphia Inquirer was the first to report the news.
There’s almost no way to argue that this is a positive development for the Sixers. The question becomes where on the scale, from annoyance to unmitigated disaster, it truly falls.
The segment of the fan base where this is truly disastrous would be for those who were hoping that the Sixers and Simmons could work out their differences and keep the union going long term. Some words, when spoken, can’t be taken back, and this has certainly steered the relationship into that territory. That’s not entirely surprising — The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported less than 24 hours earlier that a Simmons deal was widely perceived to be more of a when, not if, question — but this is certainly a tough development for those who had been holding on to the slimmest of hope that this could be salvaged.
It is also undoubtedly a negative development for the Sixers’ ability to maximize Simmons’ trade value. Once the draft and free agency came and went, the ideal world from the Sixers’ perspective was to get Simmons back on the court, not only to remind other teams of what he does well but also to maintain the appearance that this is a tenable situation and stave off any impression that the Sixers are stuck squarely between a rock and a hard place. Neither acts of rehabilitation — of Simmons’ trade value or of the Sixers’ leverage — are helped by Tuesday’s public developments.
If Simmons’ trade value can’t be significantly rehabilitated, the question now becomes how much negative impact this news has.
At this point, it’s worth mentioning how unusual of a situation this is. In recent years, the team for whom the star played continued to hold significant leverage in trade negotiations, almost irrespective of how the situations around them deteriorated. From Anthony Davis to James Harden, from “That’s All Folks!” T-shirts to cross-country club-hopping instead of reporting to training camp, teams were able to weather the absurdity and continue to get fair value for their superstars.
But Simmons isn’t a superstar, and he’s not going to have the appeal of Davis or Harden. His trade value even before his public wilting in the playoffs was narrower than that of a traditional All-Star caliber player, and that certainly has not changed with the developments of the last few months. Across the league, he’s more often referred to as a floor raiser than the final piece of a dynasty. That has value, to be sure, but it doesn’t put the Sixers in the same position of strength that the Pelicans or Rockets enjoyed.
The Sixers are also significantly different than your typical team that’s in the midst of selling off an All-Star caliber talent. Perennial 50-win teams that have an MVP candidate aren’t typically in the position where they’re auctioning off their second-best player to the highest bidder. Usually, a team trading a player of Simmons’ caliber would be doing so because they failed to put a winner around him.
When the Pelicans traded Davis for Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and a bunch of picks, they weren’t just banking on Ingram or Ball growing into players who impact winning, but also had the knowledge that if they didn’t, there’s a chance they could get some lottery luck and land their star that way — which they did with Zion Williamson in 2019. The win-win is baked into the calculus. The Rockets can wait to see if one of their seemingly endless future picks has lottery-ball luck.
The Sixers, trying to build a winner around an in-his-prime Joel Embiid, aren’t afforded the grace period that teams trading a player of Simmons’ stature typically enjoy. That substantially complicates the Sixers’ situation, especially since most of the teams that would be interested in Simmons aren’t flush with ready-now players capable of contributing to winning right away. They’re teams such as the Timberwolves, who are in the cellar.
Simmons’ unique game makes the list of teams interested in offering fair value to acquire him more narrow than that of your typical All-Star available on the trade market, and the Sixers’ unique position as a contender auctioning off an All-Star caliber player makes the list of teams that have what they need more narrow than typical, as well. That’s offset a little bit by Simmons having four more years on his contract, which is far more team control than an acquiring team typically has. Everything about this situation is weird and unprecedented.
So, do the Sixers need to simply take the best offer that’s on the table right now? I’m not so sure that’s the case, at least not yet. The Sixers, as long as Embiid is reasonably healthy, should be a playoff-caliber team. The goal isn’t to take the steps to have the best supporting cast available to him by the season opener on Oct. 20, but to have the most talent possible by the time the playoff run starts. That’s done by maximizing the Simmons trade, however possible.
There’s nothing that’s likely to happen between now and the start of training camp that will provide a boost to Simmons’ trade value. And Simmons being a distraction in training camp if he’s still here, while annoying at the moment, may not be all that damaging to his value around the NBA. League executives are already well aware of Simmons’ strengths and weaknesses, and the holdout isn’t likely to decrease interest from the teams already intrigued by Simmons.
What could be impacted is the Sixers’ leverage, as teams are now left with every incentive to hold back from making their best offer to see if the discomfort of the situation forces the Sixers to accept an offer they wouldn’t have considered even two weeks ago. But leverage is more fickle than value. How much leverage could be recouped by the Sixers showing that they’re willing to live through the awkwardness to maximize their return on a Simmons trade? How much leverage do the Sixers gain if something outside of their control happens to force another team into the Simmons sweepstakes, which then forces the rest of the interested suitors to step forward with more earnest offers?
Which makes this situation sort of fascinating. Could Morey call Simmons’ bluff and see whether he would actually follow through on his threat to not report to camp? If Simmons does cave in and reports to camp, would Morey be willing to tolerate an exceptionally awkward situation with Simmons around the team if he thought it could buy him a few weeks — or perhaps even months — to maximize his trade value? If Morey does pull the trigger on a trade, how much leeway does he have to take back an offer full of draft picks and young players who may not help the Sixers in the short term but could be flipped for players who would help at the trade deadline in February?
Morey didn’t inherit a perfectly rosy situation when he took over the Sixers a little more than 10 months ago. No lead executive does, otherwise the job wouldn’t be available. But the Sixers had an MVP candidate in Embiid and another assumed star in Simmons, and a few moves around the margins got them to the point where they had the best regular-season record in the conference. The path forward has become substantially trickier in the blink of an eye, and Morey’s tenure in Philadelphia could be heavily defined by the next steps that he takes.
Tyrese Maxey’s future with the team
One of the reports to come out of Tuesday’s developments was that Paul, who represents not only Simmons but also second-year guard Tyrese Maxey, would like Maxey off of the team, as well.
Maxey being included in a potential Simmons trade was always a possibility, mostly because Maxey has significant positive trade value, and if the Sixers were to maximize the quality of the player they get back in a trade, including Maxey was a realistic way of doing so.
But Paul demanding Maxey be included in a trade is a development that I didn’t see coming, in large part because it’s not what’s best for Maxey himself.
Maxey’s value offensively comes from his ability to create in the half court off the dribble, something he showed glimpses of during his rookie season and then took to Vegas to dominate during his two games at NBA Summer League last month. Playing alongside Simmons for the next three years would not only force Maxey to share ballhandling responsibilities with a player in Simmons, who demands the ball in his hands, but would also cramp the spacing that Maxey’s dribble-drive game feeds off. If Simmons were to be traded and Maxey remained with the team, he’d instantly be placed in a better position to showcase his talents and succeed — and thus on the path toward earning a bigger following contract than if he were to continue to play alongside Simmons.
It’s Paul’s job to look out for the best interests of his client, not to take whatever petty squabbles he has with the team and use Maxey’s career as a pawn in those battles. And if Paul can’t do that, then the decision ultimately rests on Maxey to hire an agent who is focused on Maxey’s own interests.
This is one bluff that, if I were the Sixers, I would have no fear calling nonsense on. It comes off as saber-rattling from an agent overplaying his hand and overlooking the needs of his client.
Simmons’ contract extension was not a mistake
Simmons signed his five-year, maximum rookie extension back in 2019, days before his 23rd birthday, as he was fresh off his first All-Star season. The contract just kicked in this past year, leaving four years (and roughly $140 million) left.
Given that he still had a year left on his rookie contract when the extension was signed, and given what now looks like an imminent divorce just a year into the new deal, it has left some to question whether it was wise to lock the flawed Simmons into such a high-dollar, long-term deal.
But just because Simmons hasn’t developed as expected does not mean the Sixers would have been better off letting him walk.
Some people will try to argue that “Simmons would have more trade value if he were making $20 million instead of $30-plus.” Well, duh. Decreasing the salary of any productive player in the league would make them worth more in a trade. But there was never a world where that was actually a legitimate possibility. Simmons wasn’t accepting a less-than-max extension because there was a 100 percent chance he would get a maximum contract offer from some team (any team capable of doing so, really) if the Sixers allowed him to hit the open market.
The Sixers had three choices with Simmons: offer him the max, let him walk or preempt the market and look to trade him before his warts became even more glaring. That’s it. Those were the three options.
Letting Simmons walk in no way would have put the Sixers in a better position than they are currently in.
Even with Simmons’ entire $33 million salary off the books, they’d still be over the $112 million salary cap for this season. And even if they were under the cap, it’s tough for a non-destination market like Philadelphia to lure max-level free agents, something we saw play out firsthand when Bryan Colangelo and his regime made doing so a centerpiece of their strategy in the summers of 2017 and 2018.
With no way to replace him in free agency, the only way to make a cogent argument that signing Simmons was a mistake is to contend that he has negative trade value, that the Sixers will have to give up assets in a trade just to get off his contract. Despite how far the perception of Simmons has fallen over the last few months, that is very much not the case. The Sixers could trade Simmons to the Timberwolves for positive assets in return right now if they wanted to. But the Timberwolves don’t have enough positive trade assets to tempt the Sixers to do so. When you start getting into phrasing like that, you’re not talking about a negative value contract.
What is fair to say is that Simmons doesn’t have as much value now as he did two years ago, and it would be tough to dispute that. Given that the marriage between Simmons and the Sixers appears to be irreconcilable, it’s not out of line to say that the Sixers could have fetched more in a trade if they had been able to predict this ahead of time.
But that would have been an exceptionally tough decision for the Sixers (or any franchise, really) to arrive at. Simmons was a 22-year-old who the Sixers had just invested the No. 1 pick in the 2016 draft on, coming off an All-Star season with a decade of high-level play ahead of him. The Sixers didn’t need massive, outlier-level growth from Simmons to reach a very high level as a team; they just needed him to not completely stagnate (or, arguably, regress) as a half-court offensive player. It was a reasonable ask from the team.
Given how closely the Sixers were able to work with Simmons in the early days of his career, they were certainly in a better position to predict Simmons’ development than you, me or any other team was. Even so, that would have been a tough conclusion to arrive at so early on in Simmons’ career.
But after five years of offensive stagnation, three playoff runs featuring second-round ineptitude and two public stints on the trade block, it’s undeniable that moving on early would have left the Sixers in a better position going forward. Instead, the Sixers have to find a way to make the most of the current situation and move on from the Simmons era.
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https://uproxx.com/dimemag/charles-barkley-shaq-ben-simmons-philadelphia-trade-rumors-reaction-video/
Charles Barkley And Shaq Ripped Ben Simmons For How He’s Handled This Offseason: ‘You Ain’t That Damn Good’
Ben Simmons is still a member of the Philadelphia 76ers despite the fact that both parties seem to agree that a parting of ways is in everyone’s best interest. Reports have indicated the team is shopping the All-Star guard/forward around, while Simmons apparently sat down with the Sixers’ decision-makers recently and expressed that he wants a trade so badly that he’d skip training camp.
Everything happening around Simmons looks like it rubs Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal the wrong way. Barkley joined Shaq, Nischelle Turner, and Spice Adams on an episode of The Big Podcast with Shaq, and when the conversation turned to Simmons, both Hall of Fame inductees expressed their frustration with how things are going with him.
“I’m disappointed in Ben Simmons,” Barkley said. “When you give somebody $200 million to dribble a stupid basketball, and the only thing you ask him is be better as a player, and their first response is, ‘I don’t wanna play here anymore,’ that disappoints me as a player, that disappoints me as a fan. They’re not saying, ‘Hey, come over here and cut my grass,’ they’re saying, ‘Ben, we need you to learn how to shoot the basketball.'”
Shaq shared that sentiment, going as far as to tell Simmons he isn’t a great player.
“If you want to get to that next level, you have to be great, and to be great, you have to work on your game,” Shaq said. “Don’t be putting pictures on your Instagram of your Ferrari or what actress you hang around with. When you play in a town like Philadelphia, Boston, L.A., Miami, hard working towns, they don’t give a sh*t about none of that. They want you to come, work hard, and play hard.”
The Hall of Fame center then brought up Simmons’ Game 6 in the Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Atlanta Hawks, saying that he looked into his eyes and saw a player who was “terrified of being fouled and missing free throws,” while Barkley expressed his annoyance at “the third year in a row they put up them bullsh*t jump shots during the summer.”
“A lot of these people, you hear from your followers how good you are, how great you are,” Shaq said to close. “But you’re hearing from some OGs right now: you ain’t that damn good. And I said what I said, and Chuck said what he said. If you don’t like it, do what you gotta do. But you ain’t that damn good.”
of all time. In fact he might not be a top 5 Laker of all time: He’s not above Magic, Kobe, Kareem or Jerry West and don’t forget Wilt and Elgin Baylor are all timers that played for the Lakers. And that’s not even counting LeBron as a Laker. And Shaq never reached his full potential. He could have been the greatest he just was so dominate physically he didnt need the drive to be the greatest. With his body and athleticism he left a lot on the table. He could have averaged 40 a game if he wanted. He didn’t. And his free throw shooting was terrible. He was so bad they had to change the rules. He had no game outside two feet either. So uhh yea could have been better.
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