Most non-Sixers fans view him as the retarded version of Gary Bettman. You do understand he will fuck up whatever good he did yesterday within 9 months, right?
You're doomed! Doomed, I say!
most non-sixers fans don't know what they're talking about. fact that you're comparing an nba gm to an nhl commissioner proves that.
thanks for stopping by
Foolish me. I didn't realize he was so successful.
Most non-Sixers fans view him as the retarded version of Gary Bettman. You do understand he will fuck up whatever good he did yesterday within 9 months, right?
You're doomed! Doomed, I say!
most non-sixers fans don't know what they're talking about. fact that you're comparing an nba gm to an nhl commissioner proves that.
thanks for stopping by
Foolish me. I didn't realize he was so successful.
further proving my point by judging a GM who's been on the job for less than two years. stay hot
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
Yeah but there's a good chance the Lakers get a lot better next year with Randle healthy, a top pick this year, Kobe back, and whatever other moves they make. So that pick could be mid teens next year.
Just have to wait till the ping pong balls are picked...
Yeah but there's a good chance the Lakers get a lot better next year with Randle healthy, a top pick this year, Kobe back, and whatever other moves they make. So that pick could be mid teens next year.
Just have to wait till the ping pong balls are picked...
True. Even so, they would have two picks in the top 15 or so next year. Ideally the lakers finish outside of the top 5 and sixers get two top 10 picks this year, but I think that's a long shot.
I might have to get a season ticket package next year. The future is bright
Just look at this....two years ago the incoming/outgoing graph looked like the complete opposite. Hinkie is a genius...he's completely turned this thing around in less than two years, which is nothing short of amazing.
Yeah but there's a good chance the Lakers get a lot better next year with Randle healthy, a top pick this year, Kobe back, and whatever other moves they make. So that pick could be mid teens next year.
Just have to wait till the ping pong balls are picked...
True. Even so, they would have two picks in the top 15 or so next year. Ideally the lakers finish outside of the top 5 and sixers get two top 10 picks this year, but I think that's a long shot.
I might have to get a season ticket package next year. The future is bright
Just look at this....two years ago the incoming/outgoing graph looked like the complete opposite. Hinkie is a genius...he's completely turned this thing around in less than two years, which is nothing short of amazing.
what's the point of continuing to get draft picks if you are going to just trade the guys you draft anyway? at some point you actually have to play the guys you draft right? can't wait until they draft another big guy this year. guess next year is another terrible season to look forward to.
ever think that the picks you acquire could result in better players than the players you trade away? I love how people act like MCW was chris paul. MCW isn't good. KJ McDaniels was a fun player to have around, but he's nothing special. I love the moves...gets them closer to landing premier talent in the draft
absolutely you can land better players but at some point you actually have to start the process of building the team that you are going forward with. they basically are now back in the same position they were a year ago. so you've wasted another year. push back competing at a high level from 2021 to 2022 now.
I also think Hinkie is driving Brett Brown out. Brown has proven he can coach. he is not going to stay here with the continual roster turn-around he has put up with this year. he can't be a happy camper today. he has 2 years oh his deal after this year. we shall see.
Larry Brown is whiny sniveling back-stabbing sob...but all he does is win. everywhere he has been wins.
what's the point of continuing to get draft picks if you are going to just trade the guys you draft anyway? at some point you actually have to play the guys you draft right? can't wait until they draft another big guy this year. guess next year is another terrible season to look forward to.
ever think that the picks you acquire could result in better players than the players you trade away? I love how people act like MCW was chris paul. MCW isn't good. KJ McDaniels was a fun player to have around, but he's nothing special. I love the moves...gets them closer to landing premier talent in the draft
absolutely you can land better players but at some point you actually have to start the process of building the team that you are going forward with. they basically are now back in the same position they were a year ago. so you've wasted another year. push back competing at a high level from 2021 to 2022 now.
.
This is ridiculous. Far better shape than they were last year.
They got rid of two guys who each shot 40% from the field. People need to stop acting like they traded away anything they're going to miss. Yesterday's trades were the correct moves.
Philadelphia 76ers This was simply Business 101 for the Philadelphia 76ers. The 76ers took Michael Carter-Williams, the 11th pick in a weak 2013 NBA draft, boosted his trade value by playing at an outrageous pace and letting him play through mistakes, then flipped him for a likely high lottery pick in a potentially stronger 2015 draft. Carter-Williams could be a fine player one day, but his numbers are mostly hollow. His minus-1.64 real plus-minus ranks 50th among point guards. Not in the entire NBA. Fiftieth at his position.
So Sam Hinkie somehow parlayed Carter-Williams into one of the most golden assets in the league, the Lakers' top-five protected 2015 first-rounder via Phoenix. According to ESPN's BPI model, the most likely pick slot that the Lakers generate this season is the sixth pick (17.2 percent chance), in which case the Sixers get it. On top of their own pick. If the Sixers don't get it this season, it moves to the 2016 draft where it is a top-three protected pick. That's a heist for one of the least impactful point guards in the league.
Trading freak athlete K.J. McDaniels to Houston for Isaiah Canaan and a second-rounder puts a dent in their strong day, but getting that Lakers pick and another first-rounder for taking JaVale McGee's contract (more on this later) trumps that McDaniels blemish easily. Especially if they had no intention of matching McDaniels' salary when he becomes a coveted restricted free agent this summer.
Losers
Denver Nuggets This is why you don't hastily try to make the playoffs in a loaded Western Conference after losing 2012-13 Executive of the Year Masai Ujiri and 2012-13 Coach of the Year George Karl. Nuggets general manager Tim Connelly tried to make a splash in his first couple of seasons on the job by adding significant long-term payroll in the form of J.J. Hickson, Kenneth Faried and bizarrely trading for multiyear contracts owed to Jameer Nelson, Randy Foye and Arron Afflalo. Just a whole bunch of head-scratching moves that set the franchise back.
And then the McGee salary dump happened. Shedding the rest of McGee's $12 million is an odd priority in the first place, considering he is still 29 and can help bolster their frontcourt depth if healthy. At worst, he sits on the bench, doesn't play and seeks a buyout. Instead, the Nuggets panicked and sent a first-rounder to Philly to take him off their hands.
The 76ers had almost no leverage in these talks and they pried out a prized asset from the Nuggets. A second-rounder wouldn't do? Hinkie ran circles around Connelly in this one. Sure, the Nuggets netted a similar first-round pick for Afflalo, but I'd rather have intriguing 22-year-old Evan Fournier, whom the Nuggets traded to Orlando to take on Afflalo's contract this summer. Maybe getting rid of the McGee contract was a mandate from ownership, but I still don't know who the Nuggets are trying to be.
Then I saw this line in another article, which I thought was great...
Hinkie would sign a dude from ISIS as long as he came with draft picks.
Parsing the logic of what Hinkie and the Sixers are doing requires a longer conversation than a blurb in a quick winners-and-losers column. But within the framework of what the Sixers are doing, Thursday was a massive win. They got rid of Carter-Williams — a player who wasn’t as good as his reputation — and in return they brought back what should turn into an excellent Lakers lottery pick either this year or next year.
It’s funny, because we just lived through a month of Sixers cult members lashing out at everyone for mocking the 12-41 Sixers. “Do you even watch this team? Update your jokes, bro, the team is fun this year!” And apparently that was too good for Hinkie! Things are looking up? Time to gut the team one more time.
The criticisms write themselves. The problem with the criticisms is that MCW wasn’t actually good. Long term, it didn’t make sense to invest in him as the centerpiece of the offense. Flipping him for anything would have been reasonable, but getting that Lakers pick back is an act of evil genius. And now they’re well positioned to get tankeriffic down the stretch and land another top-three pick of their own.
If you can’t stand what the Sixers are doing and want them to fail, that’s reasonable. But if you want the Sixers to fail, Thursday was not a good day.
Losers
Bucks
Speaking of bright futures that got more complicated on Thursday … The Bucks are still in great shape for the future. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jabari Parker, Khris Middleton, and John Henson ensure that the future is bright. And trading Knight is probably better than paying Knight. Point guard talent is two or three times deeper than every other position in the NBA, and when everyone’s great, it makes no sense to commit a ton of money to someone who’s only decent. The Bucks will still have room to make deals down the line if they decide they want a great point guard.
Michael Carter-Williams is not that point guard. He can’t shoot, he’s not a great passer, and he’s not even a very good ball handler. For a team that already had spacing issues, he will likely make things worse. He’s one of those players who is better in theory than reality. And now the Bucks will probably take another 18 months to realize that they need to look elsewhere. Or maybe Tyler Ennis will surprise people and fill that role.
MCW is great on defense, and his length will make the Bucks miserable to score against, but that was never the problem with this team. They need offense, and MCW probably won’t help there. If the Bucks were going to trade Knight to the Suns, why couldn’t they have done it over the summer? As it stands, they would have been much better off keeping Knight through the end of this year and then doing their best to steal Ty Lawson this summer.
(If MCW works in Milwaukee, it will be the ultimate proof that Kidd is a real, true point guard whisperer. Or that the Sixers have no idea what they’re doing and are actively holding players back. Maybe both.)
hinkieThe mad scientist in Philadelphia may just be a mad genius. Yes, it was fashionable to make fun of the young and strange GM as he was taking out the dynamite while also spending money like he was LeBron James doling out tips to restaurant staff. Hinkie built a team that was designed to tank, and in the meantime he picked up Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid, flipped Jrue Holiday for a No. 1 pick and installed a replacement, Michael Carter-Williams, who won Rookie of the Year. Both of those guys are now gone, and the draft lottery is now all about Philly.
Hinkie on Thursday found a way to get two additional first-round picks (he might have two of the top 6 selections this June) and an additional first-round draft pick, Oklahoma City’s, as a reward for taking McGee’s onerous contract off of the Denver Nuggets’ hands and sacrificing Carter-Williams.
One day, they will put his statue up there with Rocky’s. Be patient Philadelphia. Your starting five in two years could be Jahlil Okafor/Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, D’Angelo Russell and Emmanual Mudiay.
It is common for everyone to declare winners and losers after trade deadline day. I have made my decision. The winner is Sam Hinkie. Second place goes to Sam Presti. Third place goes to John Hammond.
Check out the Sixers’ draft pick future:
2015 _ Their own No. 1 pick, Lakers’ No. 1 pick (top 5 protected); Heat’s No. 1 pick (top 10 protected); Thunder’s No. 1 pick (top 18 protected), Second-round picks originally belonging to the Magic, Pelicans, Rockets and Warriors. Heck, Hinkie might pick No. 1 overall and No. 60 overall. And that’s just this year. 2016 _ Sixers’ own No. 1 pick. The Nuggets’ No. 2 pick. 2017 _ Sixers’ own No. 1 pick, y nada mas. But give Hinkie time. 2018 _ Sixers’ own No. 1 pick. The better of Brooklyn or Cleveland’s second-round pick; the better of the Knicks’ or Clippers’ second-round pick. 2019 _ Sixers own No. 1 pick. The Knicks’ second-round pick. The better of the Bucks’ or the Kings’ second-round pick. 2020 _ Sixers own No. 1 pick. The Nets’ second-round pick.
Sixers acquire JaVale McGee from Nuggets along with Oklahoma City’s first-round pick (Top 16 protected) and the draft rights to F Chukwudiebere Maduabum for the draft rights to Cenk Akyol.
Somebody has to pay McGee, and the Sixers have to pay somebody. They are doing it this year with Jason Richardson and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. If they get this pick, they will have three of the top 17 picks, plus they’ll own the second round. And in case you are wondering, no, I have never met or spoken to Sam Hinkie. But I should negotiate his next contract.
Milwaukee acquires Michael Carter-Williams, Miles Plumlee and Tyler Ennis from Phoenix in a three-team deal sending Brandon Knight to the Suns and the Lakers’ No. 1 draft pick (top 5 protected in 2015) to the Sixers.
Every year there is a deal that goes down at the last minute that makes you scream “Damn” out loud, and this one did it this year. The Bucks were a very nice team with Knight, but he will be a restricted free agent at the end of the season, and they’ve swapped him out for a guy who has been flirting with triple-doubles nearly every night for the wretched Sixers. They also get Plumlee, who can replace Larry Sanders, and a Ennis was a pretty highly touted PG coming out of Syracuse before he became the fourth wheel in Phoenix behind Eric Bledsoe and the now-departed Isaiah Thomas and Goran Dragic. The Suns are now going to have to max out Knight for four years, and frankly I liked them better before. The big winner here is in the short term is Milwaukee. Long term, it is Philly.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
what's the point of continuing to get draft picks if you are going to just trade the guys you draft anyway? at some point you actually have to play the guys you draft right? can't wait until they draft another big guy this year. guess next year is another terrible season to look forward to.
ever think that the picks you acquire could result in better players than the players you trade away? I love how people act like MCW was chris paul. MCW isn't good. KJ McDaniels was a fun player to have around, but he's nothing special. I love the moves...gets them closer to landing premier talent in the draft
absolutely you can land better players but at some point you actually have to start the process of building the team that you are going forward with. they basically are now back in the same position they were a year ago. so you've wasted another year. push back competing at a high level from 2021 to 2022 now.
I also think Hinkie is driving Brett Brown out. Brown has proven he can coach. he is not going to stay here with the continual roster turn-around he has put up with this year. he can't be a happy camper today. he has 2 years oh his deal after this year. we shall see.
Larry Brown is whiny sniveling back-stabbing sob...but all he does is win. everywhere he has been wins.
Are you Angelo Cataldi? You sound just as out of touch as that guy and the Marcus Hayeses of the world.
If anything you've sped things up because you realized you were not going anywhere with a point guard who can't shoot and turns the ball over too much (just like he did at Syracuse). Might as well cut your losses and cash in on a better than anticipated return of your investment. What do you like so much about MCW?
And Bret Brown knew exactly what he signed up for. He is not going anywhere.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
what's the point of continuing to get draft picks if you are going to just trade the guys you draft anyway? at some point you actually have to play the guys you draft right? can't wait until they draft another big guy this year. guess next year is another terrible season to look forward to.
ever think that the picks you acquire could result in better players than the players you trade away? I love how people act like MCW was chris paul. MCW isn't good. KJ McDaniels was a fun player to have around, but he's nothing special. I love the moves...gets them closer to landing premier talent in the draft
absolutely you can land better players but at some point you actually have to start the process of building the team that you are going forward with. they basically are now back in the same position they were a year ago. so you've wasted another year. push back competing at a high level from 2021 to 2022 now.
I also think Hinkie is driving Brett Brown out. Brown has proven he can coach. he is not going to stay here with the continual roster turn-around he has put up with this year. he can't be a happy camper today. he has 2 years oh his deal after this year. we shall see.
Larry Brown is whiny sniveling back-stabbing sob...but all he does is win. everywhere he has been wins.
Are you Angelo Cataldi? You sound just as out of touch as that guy and the Marcus Hayeses of the world.
If anything you've sped things up because you realized you were not going anywhere with a point guard who can't shoot and turns the ball over too much (just like he did at Syracuse). Might as well cut your losses and cash in on a better than anticipated return of your investment. What do you like so much about MCW?
And Bret Brown knew exactly what he signed up for. He is not going anywhere.
you wanna make a bet on Brett Brown being here in 3,4 or 5 years from now? he is gone sooner than later. I don't see him re-upping here. he will get a much better gig than this bs.
and the game is a perimeter game these days. we just traded our top 2 or top 2 out of 3 perimeter players.
at some point the architect has to stop making new drawings and bricks have to be start being laid down. you can't keep pushing the plan off year-to-year. that is my issue.
can you guys tell me when I can start to think the Sixers are even a playoff contender again? hell at this point the Phillies will be in the playoffs and a contender again before the Sixers. 5 years minimum and some people are buying it lock stock and barrel. Hinkie is a genius for convincing a portion of the fan base that completely sucking for 4-5 years is the right move. greatest marketing by a team executive ever in this town.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
edited February 2015
pj hawks --you've said in the past that you haven't paid attention to the sixers since the larry brown/iverson days.....it shows.
5 years from now for brett brown? the average length of time for an nba coach in one place is 2.5 years. his contract is for 4 years. i absolutely think he will finish out his contract. 5 more years from now? so 6 or 7 years all together (something that rarely happens in any sport, let alone the nba)? that's not a smart bet for coaches on winning teams, let alone this one.
of course it is a perimeter game...but these are two TERRIBLE perimeter shooters. out of the perimeter guys who are still on the team and take more than 7 shots a game kj is 3rd and mcw 6th--so they are not even the best on an historically terrible shooting team. i'm not sure what you're talking about.
mcw is shooting 38% from the floor. worse than last year. he is shooting 28% from outside of 3ft from the basket. out of all qualified point guards in the nba, do you where where that 38% ranks him? i'll give you a minute...............annnnd time----he ranks 26th out of 27 point guards in shooting percent. he's just about the worst shooting point guard in the league and you are complaining about the sixers losing his perimeter game? what in sam's hell are you talking about? seriously man, that's the worst critique of this trade i have seen.
and oh yes, this "year to year" the sixers keep "pushing the plan off" that all these casual fans keep saying....again, what are you talking about? this is the hinkie's 2nd year as general manager. number 2. rome was not built in a day and i'm not the one calling him a genius, but in these two years he has cleared cap space and acquired quite a few decent young players and tons of assets to either build around or use as trade bait to acquire better players, as evidenced by the trading of the highly inefficient mcw. i think people may be surprised by how quickly they become a better team over the next 2-3 years. time will tell but you can't blame the guy for giving himself as many chances as possible to build a winning team.
in the last 30 years, this team has made it out of the first round of the playoffs 7 times. so yeah, you can see why so many people are willing to wait an extra year or two for them to finally right this ship.
you'd really do yourself a service by reading some of the articles that have been posted in here the last couple days.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
edited February 2015
i forgot to mention mcw shoots 25% from 3pt land. 25% from your pg in a game that is more reliable on the 3 ball than ever before!
pjhawks trying to argue that the sixers gave up a good perimeter shooter in mcw...
what's the point of continuing to get draft picks if you are going to just trade the guys you draft anyway? at some point you actually have to play the guys you draft right? can't wait until they draft another big guy this year. guess next year is another terrible season to look forward to.
ever think that the picks you acquire could result in better players than the players you trade away? I love how people act like MCW was chris paul. MCW isn't good. KJ McDaniels was a fun player to have around, but he's nothing special. I love the moves...gets them closer to landing premier talent in the draft
absolutely you can land better players but at some point you actually have to start the process of building the team that you are going forward with. they basically are now back in the same position they were a year ago. so you've wasted another year. push back competing at a high level from 2021 to 2022 now.
I also think Hinkie is driving Brett Brown out. Brown has proven he can coach. he is not going to stay here with the continual roster turn-around he has put up with this year. he can't be a happy camper today. he has 2 years oh his deal after this year. we shall see.
Larry Brown is whiny sniveling back-stabbing sob...but all he does is win. everywhere he has been wins.
Are you Angelo Cataldi? You sound just as out of touch as that guy and the Marcus Hayeses of the world.
If anything you've sped things up because you realized you were not going anywhere with a point guard who can't shoot and turns the ball over too much (just like he did at Syracuse). Might as well cut your losses and cash in on a better than anticipated return of your investment. What do you like so much about MCW?
And Bret Brown knew exactly what he signed up for. He is not going anywhere.
you wanna make a bet on Brett Brown being here in 3,4 or 5 years from now? he is gone sooner than later. I don't see him re-upping here. he will get a much better gig than this bs.
and the game is a perimeter game these days. we just traded our top 2 or top 2 out of 3 perimeter players.
at some point the architect has to stop making new drawings and bricks have to be start being laid down. you can't keep pushing the plan off year-to-year. that is my issue.
can you guys tell me when I can start to think the Sixers are even a playoff contender again? hell at this point the Phillies will be in the playoffs and a contender again before the Sixers. 5 years minimum and some people are buying it lock stock and barrel. Hinkie is a genius for convincing a portion of the fan base that completely sucking for 4-5 years is the right move. greatest marketing by a team executive ever in this town.
serious question...how old are you?
It is a perimeter game. which is why you don't want guys who can't shoot.
As far as when sixers are going to be good again, I don't think it matters. They aren't rushing the rebuild, they are doing it correctly. As a fan it's refreshing
I know a lot of people are upset/down on the mcdaniels trade. I read that the sixers are higher on grant (who many feel like has outplayed mcdaniels) long term. Then there's the ancillary bs with kj's contract and stupid mom.
like juggler said, draft night (for the next two years) is going to be awesome
what's the point of continuing to get draft picks if you are going to just trade the guys you draft anyway? at some point you actually have to play the guys you draft right? can't wait until they draft another big guy this year. guess next year is another terrible season to look forward to.
ever think that the picks you acquire could result in better players than the players you trade away? I love how people act like MCW was chris paul. MCW isn't good. KJ McDaniels was a fun player to have around, but he's nothing special. I love the moves...gets them closer to landing premier talent in the draft
absolutely you can land better players but at some point you actually have to start the process of building the team that you are going forward with. they basically are now back in the same position they were a year ago. so you've wasted another year. push back competing at a high level from 2021 to 2022 now.
I also think Hinkie is driving Brett Brown out. Brown has proven he can coach. he is not going to stay here with the continual roster turn-around he has put up with this year. he can't be a happy camper today. he has 2 years oh his deal after this year. we shall see.
Larry Brown is whiny sniveling back-stabbing sob...but all he does is win. everywhere he has been wins.
Are you Angelo Cataldi? You sound just as out of touch as that guy and the Marcus Hayeses of the world.
If anything you've sped things up because you realized you were not going anywhere with a point guard who can't shoot and turns the ball over too much (just like he did at Syracuse). Might as well cut your losses and cash in on a better than anticipated return of your investment. What do you like so much about MCW?
And Bret Brown knew exactly what he signed up for. He is not going anywhere.
you wanna make a bet on Brett Brown being here in 3,4 or 5 years from now? he is gone sooner than later. I don't see him re-upping here. he will get a much better gig than this bs.
and the game is a perimeter game these days. we just traded our top 2 or top 2 out of 3 perimeter players.
at some point the architect has to stop making new drawings and bricks have to be start being laid down. you can't keep pushing the plan off year-to-year. that is my issue.
can you guys tell me when I can start to think the Sixers are even a playoff contender again? hell at this point the Phillies will be in the playoffs and a contender again before the Sixers. 5 years minimum and some people are buying it lock stock and barrel. Hinkie is a genius for convincing a portion of the fan base that completely sucking for 4-5 years is the right move. greatest marketing by a team executive ever in this town.
serious question...how old are you?
It is a perimeter game. which is why you don't want guys who can't shoot.
As far as when sixers are going to be good again, I don't think it matters. They aren't rushing the rebuild, they are doing it correctly. As a fan it's refreshing
what happened to Hinkie's brilliant analytics. I thought all his analytics stuff would have figured out MCW wasn't a great shooter. I guess he spilled his coffee on those pages 2 years ago.
as for MCW not being able to shoot most guard and specifically point guards do not come into the league and shoot high percentages especially from three in their first few years. it doesn't happen except for guys that are knock down shooters. look at the percentages of some of the guys below in the beginning of their careers. I think everyone here would gladly take the careers of those guys from a point guard too.
Tony Parker - 32%, 34%, 31% 1st three years Chris Paul - 28%, 35% first two years Rajon Rondo - 21%, 26%,31% first three years Russell Westbrook - 27%. 22%, 33% first three years Kyle Lowry - 37%, 26%, 28% first three years John Wall - 29%, .071% (yes 071), 27% first three years
if you guys need any other help understanding basketball I'm here for you. feel free to ask.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
edited February 2015
jeez. uh, he was the 11th pick in the draft and won rookie of the year. then was flipped at a time when his value would never be higher for a (most likely) high lottery draft pick. that is a fantastic value.
so yesterday you complained about the sixers trading mcw because he was "one of their best perimeter shooters". now today you say he is not "able to shoot." you are all over the place, my friend. which one is it?
mcw shot 40% from the floor last year and has dropped to 38% this year. (2nd to last in league among point guards). here is what the 6 guys you mentioned did in the same time frame:
tony parker: 42% first year, improved to 46% 2nd year chris paul: 43% first year, improved to 43.7% 2nd year rajon rondo: shot 41% first year, improved to 49% 2nd year r westbrook: shot 40% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year kyle lowry: shot 37% first year, improved to 43% 2nd year john wall: shot 41% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year
there's a reason mcw started out lower and dropped even lower than all the guys you mentioned (the only one not to improve)....it is because he is a TERRIBLE shooter just like he was in college. speaking of college here the players mentioned above college fg%:
mcw- 39% ....3pt- 30% parker- 48% (europe)....3pt-45% paul- 47%...3pt- 47% rondo- 49%...3pt- 28% westbrook- 46%...3pt- 35% lowry- 45%...3pt- 33% (44% his last year at nova) wall- 46%...3pt- 33%
why show the college stats? because it's indicative of the types of shooters they are and it means, even if they started out slow, especially from 3pt range in the nba, that they have a past that says it will probably come in time (rondo's never been known as a good shooter for his career, but his improvement to 49% in his 2nd year shows how even he is superior to mcw)....except for mr carter williams.
also, the fact that you would compare mcw to the best point guards in the league is quite baffling.
this is a perfect paragraph for the doubters...Hinkie is the best
Point is, we're looking at a team that should be able to add steady streams of talent every year for the foreseeable future, at a point where most rebuilding teams have already cashed in all their chips and are simply sitting around waiting for things to start getting better. Maybe when the time is right, we package a couple of those considerable future assets together and go get ourselves the next Kevin Garnett or James Harden. Maybe when the time is right, we add him through free agency. Help is on the way for the Sixers, and a lot of it, and for a long time to come. The team was already starting to play like a legitimate NBA squad this season, and the eventual four best players on the 2016-17 Sixers might not even be on the active roster yet. Good times lie ahead.
jeez. uh, he was the 11th pick in the draft and won rookie of the year. then was flipped at a time when his value would never be higher for a (most likely) high lottery draft pick. that is a fantastic value.
so yesterday you complained about the sixers trading mcw because he was "one of their best perimeter shooters". now today you say he is not "able to shoot." you are all over the place, my friend. which one is it?
mcw shot 40% from the floor last year and has dropped to 38% this year. (2nd to last in league among point guards). here is what the 6 guys you mentioned did in the same time frame:
tony parker: 42% first year, improved to 46% 2nd year chris paul: 43% first year, improved to 43.7% 2nd year rajon rondo: shot 41% first year, improved to 49% 2nd year r westbrook: shot 40% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year kyle lowry: shot 37% first year, improved to 43% 2nd year john wall: shot 41% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year
there's a reason mcw started out lower and dropped even lower than all the guys you mentioned (the only one not to improve)....it is because he is a TERRIBLE shooter just like he was in college. speaking of college here the players mentioned above college fg%:
mcw- 39% ....3pt- 30% parker- 48% (europe)....3pt-45% paul- 47%...3pt- 47% rondo- 49%...3pt- 28% westbrook- 46%...3pt- 35% lowry- 45%...3pt- 33% (44% his last year at nova) wall- 46%...3pt- 33%
why show the college stats? because it's indicative of the types of shooters they are and it means, even if they started out slow, especially from 3pt range in the nba, that they have a past that says it will probably come in time (rondo's never been known as a good shooter for his career, but his improvement to 49% in his 2nd year shows how even he is superior to mcw)....except for mr carter williams.
also, the fact that you would compare mcw to the best point guards in the league is quite baffling.
stick to st joes
apparently reading comprehension is not a strength. never said he was one of their best perimeter SHOOTERS. I said perimeter PLAYERS. it's not this fucking hard guys.
I just want to understand the absolutely unwavering support for Hinkie. It's an even bigger mystery than the Chip Kelly love fest. I mean at least Chip had success at the college level. Hinkie has never held this job before and came from a franchise that in every year he was there their record got worse than the previous year. and looking like the same might occur this year for this franchise. I don't get it.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
edited February 2015
Haha...on Friday he laments trading MCW because he is one of our best perimeter players. He expounds on that yesterday by comparing his 3 point shooting with the best point guards in the game. Today he seems to be making the argument that shooting plays a minor factor into making a good perimeter player. WTF?
Shooting ability is the number one attribute of a good perimeter player and MCW is the 2nd worst shooting point guard in the entire NBA.
Hawks---just give it up. You're embarrassing yourself.
Post edited by The Juggler on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
The Lakers are probably a LOCK to be in the bottom 5. In fact, i won't be surprised if NY & LA get the first & second picks in this year's draft.
You're probably right. Hinkie admitted as much and I think he's looking at it as a top pick next year......or an extremely enticing trade chip this year. We shall see!
jeez. uh, he was the 11th pick in the draft and won rookie of the year. then was flipped at a time when his value would never be higher for a (most likely) high lottery draft pick. that is a fantastic value.
so yesterday you complained about the sixers trading mcw because he was "one of their best perimeter shooters". now today you say he is not "able to shoot." you are all over the place, my friend. which one is it?
mcw shot 40% from the floor last year and has dropped to 38% this year. (2nd to last in league among point guards). here is what the 6 guys you mentioned did in the same time frame:
tony parker: 42% first year, improved to 46% 2nd year chris paul: 43% first year, improved to 43.7% 2nd year rajon rondo: shot 41% first year, improved to 49% 2nd year r westbrook: shot 40% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year kyle lowry: shot 37% first year, improved to 43% 2nd year john wall: shot 41% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year
there's a reason mcw started out lower and dropped even lower than all the guys you mentioned (the only one not to improve)....it is because he is a TERRIBLE shooter just like he was in college. speaking of college here the players mentioned above college fg%:
mcw- 39% ....3pt- 30% parker- 48% (europe)....3pt-45% paul- 47%...3pt- 47% rondo- 49%...3pt- 28% westbrook- 46%...3pt- 35% lowry- 45%...3pt- 33% (44% his last year at nova) wall- 46%...3pt- 33%
why show the college stats? because it's indicative of the types of shooters they are and it means, even if they started out slow, especially from 3pt range in the nba, that they have a past that says it will probably come in time (rondo's never been known as a good shooter for his career, but his improvement to 49% in his 2nd year shows how even he is superior to mcw)....except for mr carter williams.
also, the fact that you would compare mcw to the best point guards in the league is quite baffling.
stick to st joes
apparently reading comprehension is not a strength. never said he was one of their best perimeter SHOOTERS. I said perimeter PLAYERS. it's not this fucking hard guys.
I just want to understand the absolutely unwavering support for Hinkie. It's an even bigger mystery than the Chip Kelly love fest. I mean at least Chip had success at the college level. Hinkie has never held this job before and came from a franchise that in every year he was there their record got worse than the previous year. and looking like the same might occur this year for this franchise. I don't get it.
What's NOT to like about hinkie?? Their record the last two years is irrelevant (next year will be the same). You can start judging this team by wins and losses starting in the '17-'18 season, when they should be LOADED with talent.
chip kelly is a loser
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,357
Comments
Just have to wait till the ping pong balls are picked...
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
I might have to get a season ticket package next year. The future is bright
Just look at this....two years ago the incoming/outgoing graph looked like the complete opposite. Hinkie is a genius...he's completely turned this thing around in less than two years, which is nothing short of amazing.
http://www.sixerswiki.com/wiki/Future_Draft_Picks
Wish we can fast forward to June
I also think Hinkie is driving Brett Brown out. Brown has proven he can coach. he is not going to stay here with the continual roster turn-around he has put up with this year. he can't be a happy camper today. he has 2 years oh his deal after this year. we shall see.
Larry Brown is whiny sniveling back-stabbing sob...but all he does is win. everywhere he has been wins.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
They got rid of two guys who each shot 40% from the field. People need to stop acting like they traded away anything they're going to miss. Yesterday's trades were the correct moves.
espn insider
Winners
Philadelphia 76ers
This was simply Business 101 for the Philadelphia 76ers. The 76ers took Michael Carter-Williams, the 11th pick in a weak 2013 NBA draft, boosted his trade value by playing at an outrageous pace and letting him play through mistakes, then flipped him for a likely high lottery pick in a potentially stronger 2015 draft. Carter-Williams could be a fine player one day, but his numbers are mostly hollow. His minus-1.64 real plus-minus ranks 50th among point guards. Not in the entire NBA. Fiftieth at his position.
So Sam Hinkie somehow parlayed Carter-Williams into one of the most golden assets in the league, the Lakers' top-five protected 2015 first-rounder via Phoenix. According to ESPN's BPI model, the most likely pick slot that the Lakers generate this season is the sixth pick (17.2 percent chance), in which case the Sixers get it. On top of their own pick. If the Sixers don't get it this season, it moves to the 2016 draft where it is a top-three protected pick. That's a heist for one of the least impactful point guards in the league.
Trading freak athlete K.J. McDaniels to Houston for Isaiah Canaan and a second-rounder puts a dent in their strong day, but getting that Lakers pick and another first-rounder for taking JaVale McGee's contract (more on this later) trumps that McDaniels blemish easily. Especially if they had no intention of matching McDaniels' salary when he becomes a coveted restricted free agent this summer.
Losers
Denver Nuggets
This is why you don't hastily try to make the playoffs in a loaded Western Conference after losing 2012-13 Executive of the Year Masai Ujiri and 2012-13 Coach of the Year George Karl. Nuggets general manager Tim Connelly tried to make a splash in his first couple of seasons on the job by adding significant long-term payroll in the form of J.J. Hickson, Kenneth Faried and bizarrely trading for multiyear contracts owed to Jameer Nelson, Randy Foye and Arron Afflalo. Just a whole bunch of head-scratching moves that set the franchise back.
And then the McGee salary dump happened. Shedding the rest of McGee's $12 million is an odd priority in the first place, considering he is still 29 and can help bolster their frontcourt depth if healthy. At worst, he sits on the bench, doesn't play and seeks a buyout. Instead, the Nuggets panicked and sent a first-rounder to Philly to take him off their hands.
The 76ers had almost no leverage in these talks and they pried out a prized asset from the Nuggets. A second-rounder wouldn't do? Hinkie ran circles around Connelly in this one. Sure, the Nuggets netted a similar first-round pick for Afflalo, but I'd rather have intriguing 22-year-old Evan Fournier, whom the Nuggets traded to Orlando to take on Afflalo's contract this summer. Maybe getting rid of the McGee contract was a mandate from ownership, but I still don't know who the Nuggets are trying to be.
Then I saw this line in another article, which I thought was great...
Hinkie would sign a dude from ISIS as long as he came with draft picks.
Winners
Sam Hinkie
Parsing the logic of what Hinkie and the Sixers are doing requires a longer conversation than a blurb in a quick winners-and-losers column. But within the framework of what the Sixers are doing, Thursday was a massive win. They got rid of Carter-Williams — a player who wasn’t as good as his reputation — and in return they brought back what should turn into an excellent Lakers lottery pick either this year or next year.
It’s funny, because we just lived through a month of Sixers cult members lashing out at everyone for mocking the 12-41 Sixers. “Do you even watch this team? Update your jokes, bro, the team is fun this year!” And apparently that was too good for Hinkie! Things are looking up? Time to gut the team one more time.
The criticisms write themselves. The problem with the criticisms is that MCW wasn’t actually good. Long term, it didn’t make sense to invest in him as the centerpiece of the offense. Flipping him for anything would have been reasonable, but getting that Lakers pick back is an act of evil genius. And now they’re well positioned to get tankeriffic down the stretch and land another top-three pick of their own.
If you can’t stand what the Sixers are doing and want them to fail, that’s reasonable. But if you want the Sixers to fail, Thursday was not a good day.
Losers
Bucks
Speaking of bright futures that got more complicated on Thursday … The Bucks are still in great shape for the future. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jabari Parker, Khris Middleton, and John Henson ensure that the future is bright. And trading Knight is probably better than paying Knight. Point guard talent is two or three times deeper than every other position in the NBA, and when everyone’s great, it makes no sense to commit a ton of money to someone who’s only decent. The Bucks will still have room to make deals down the line if they decide they want a great point guard.
Michael Carter-Williams is not that point guard. He can’t shoot, he’s not a great passer, and he’s not even a very good ball handler. For a team that already had spacing issues, he will likely make things worse. He’s one of those players who is better in theory than reality. And now the Bucks will probably take another 18 months to realize that they need to look elsewhere. Or maybe Tyler Ennis will surprise people and fill that role.
MCW is great on defense, and his length will make the Bucks miserable to score against, but that was never the problem with this team. They need offense, and MCW probably won’t help there. If the Bucks were going to trade Knight to the Suns, why couldn’t they have done it over the summer? As it stands, they would have been much better off keeping Knight through the end of this year and then doing their best to steal Ty Lawson this summer.
(If MCW works in Milwaukee, it will be the ultimate proof that Kidd is a real, true point guard whisperer. Or that the Sixers have no idea what they’re doing and are actively holding players back. Maybe both.)
February 19, 2015 by Chris Sheridan
Sheridan I have written this before but I haven’t written it in quite some time.
When all is said and done on the Sam Hinkie Era, the Philadelphia 76ers will be counting up their multiple titles. Yes, multiple.
But no, I do not expect JaVale McGee to be a part of any of that. Emmanuel Mudiay? Yes. Jahlil Okafor or Joel Embiid? Yep.
image: http://i0.wp.com/www.sheridanhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/hinkie-e1368615969645.png?zoom=2&resize=289,297
hinkieThe mad scientist in Philadelphia may just be a mad genius. Yes, it was fashionable to make fun of the young and strange GM as he was taking out the dynamite while also spending money like he was LeBron James doling out tips to restaurant staff. Hinkie built a team that was designed to tank, and in the meantime he picked up Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid, flipped Jrue Holiday for a No. 1 pick and installed a replacement, Michael Carter-Williams, who won Rookie of the Year. Both of those guys are now gone, and the draft lottery is now all about Philly.
Hinkie on Thursday found a way to get two additional first-round picks (he might have two of the top 6 selections this June) and an additional first-round draft pick, Oklahoma City’s, as a reward for taking McGee’s onerous contract off of the Denver Nuggets’ hands and sacrificing Carter-Williams.
One day, they will put his statue up there with Rocky’s. Be patient Philadelphia. Your starting five in two years could be Jahlil Okafor/Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, D’Angelo Russell and Emmanual Mudiay.
It is common for everyone to declare winners and losers after trade deadline day. I have made my decision. The winner is Sam Hinkie. Second place goes to Sam Presti. Third place goes to John Hammond.
Check out the Sixers’ draft pick future:
2015 _ Their own No. 1 pick, Lakers’ No. 1 pick (top 5 protected); Heat’s No. 1 pick (top 10 protected); Thunder’s No. 1 pick (top 18 protected), Second-round picks originally belonging to the Magic, Pelicans, Rockets and Warriors. Heck, Hinkie might pick No. 1 overall and No. 60 overall. And that’s just this year.
2016 _ Sixers’ own No. 1 pick. The Nuggets’ No. 2 pick.
2017 _ Sixers’ own No. 1 pick, y nada mas. But give Hinkie time.
2018 _ Sixers’ own No. 1 pick. The better of Brooklyn or Cleveland’s second-round pick; the better of the Knicks’ or Clippers’ second-round pick.
2019 _ Sixers own No. 1 pick. The Knicks’ second-round pick. The better of the Bucks’ or the Kings’ second-round pick.
2020 _ Sixers own No. 1 pick. The Nets’ second-round pick.
Sixers acquire JaVale McGee from Nuggets along with Oklahoma City’s first-round pick (Top 16 protected) and the draft rights to F Chukwudiebere Maduabum for the draft rights to Cenk Akyol.
Somebody has to pay McGee, and the Sixers have to pay somebody. They are doing it this year with Jason Richardson and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. If they get this pick, they will have three of the top 17 picks, plus they’ll own the second round. And in case you are wondering, no, I have never met or spoken to Sam Hinkie. But I should negotiate his next contract.
Milwaukee acquires Michael Carter-Williams, Miles Plumlee and Tyler Ennis from Phoenix in a three-team deal sending Brandon Knight to the Suns and the Lakers’ No. 1 draft pick (top 5 protected in 2015) to the Sixers.
Every year there is a deal that goes down at the last minute that makes you scream “Damn” out loud, and this one did it this year. The Bucks were a very nice team with Knight, but he will be a restricted free agent at the end of the season, and they’ve swapped him out for a guy who has been flirting with triple-doubles nearly every night for the wretched Sixers. They also get Plumlee, who can replace Larry Sanders, and a Ennis was a pretty highly touted PG coming out of Syracuse before he became the fourth wheel in Phoenix behind Eric Bledsoe and the now-departed Isaiah Thomas and Goran Dragic. The Suns are now going to have to max out Knight for four years, and frankly I liked them better before. The big winner here is in the short term is Milwaukee. Long term, it is Philly.
If anything you've sped things up because you realized you were not going anywhere with a point guard who can't shoot and turns the ball over too much (just like he did at Syracuse). Might as well cut your losses and cash in on a better than anticipated return of your investment. What do you like so much about MCW?
And Bret Brown knew exactly what he signed up for. He is not going anywhere.
and the game is a perimeter game these days. we just traded our top 2 or top 2 out of 3 perimeter players.
at some point the architect has to stop making new drawings and bricks have to be start being laid down. you can't keep pushing the plan off year-to-year. that is my issue.
can you guys tell me when I can start to think the Sixers are even a playoff contender again? hell at this point the Phillies will be in the playoffs and a contender again before the Sixers. 5 years minimum and some people are buying it lock stock and barrel. Hinkie is a genius for convincing a portion of the fan base that completely sucking for 4-5 years is the right move. greatest marketing by a team executive ever in this town.
5 years from now for brett brown? the average length of time for an nba coach in one place is 2.5 years. his contract is for 4 years. i absolutely think he will finish out his contract. 5 more years from now? so 6 or 7 years all together (something that rarely happens in any sport, let alone the nba)? that's not a smart bet for coaches on winning teams, let alone this one.
of course it is a perimeter game...but these are two TERRIBLE perimeter shooters. out of the perimeter guys who are still on the team and take more than 7 shots a game kj is 3rd and mcw 6th--so they are not even the best on an historically terrible shooting team. i'm not sure what you're talking about.
mcw is shooting 38% from the floor. worse than last year. he is shooting 28% from outside of 3ft from the basket. out of all qualified point guards in the nba, do you where where that 38% ranks him? i'll give you a minute...............annnnd time----he ranks 26th out of 27 point guards in shooting percent. he's just about the worst shooting point guard in the league and you are complaining about the sixers losing his perimeter game? what in sam's hell are you talking about? seriously man, that's the worst critique of this trade i have seen.
and oh yes, this "year to year" the sixers keep "pushing the plan off" that all these casual fans keep saying....again, what are you talking about? this is the hinkie's 2nd year as general manager. number 2. rome was not built in a day and i'm not the one calling him a genius, but in these two years he has cleared cap space and acquired quite a few decent young players and tons of assets to either build around or use as trade bait to acquire better players, as evidenced by the trading of the highly inefficient mcw. i think people may be surprised by how quickly they become a better team over the next 2-3 years. time will tell but you can't blame the guy for giving himself as many chances as possible to build a winning team.
in the last 30 years, this team has made it out of the first round of the playoffs 7 times. so yeah, you can see why so many people are willing to wait an extra year or two for them to finally right this ship.
you'd really do yourself a service by reading some of the articles that have been posted in here the last couple days.
pjhawks trying to argue that the sixers gave up a good perimeter shooter in mcw...
It is a perimeter game. which is why you don't want guys who can't shoot.
As far as when sixers are going to be good again, I don't think it matters. They aren't rushing the rebuild, they are doing it correctly. As a fan it's refreshing
like juggler said, draft night (for the next two years) is going to be awesome
Wonder which player been on the team the longest now?
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
what happened to Hinkie's brilliant analytics. I thought all his analytics stuff would have figured out MCW wasn't a great shooter. I guess he spilled his coffee on those pages 2 years ago.
as for MCW not being able to shoot most guard and specifically point guards do not come into the league and shoot high percentages especially from three in their first few years. it doesn't happen except for guys that are knock down shooters. look at the percentages of some of the guys below in the beginning of their careers. I think everyone here would gladly take the careers of those guys from a point guard too.
Tony Parker - 32%, 34%, 31% 1st three years
Chris Paul - 28%, 35% first two years
Rajon Rondo - 21%, 26%,31% first three years
Russell Westbrook - 27%. 22%, 33% first three years
Kyle Lowry - 37%, 26%, 28% first three years
John Wall - 29%, .071% (yes 071), 27% first three years
if you guys need any other help understanding basketball I'm here for you. feel free to ask.
so yesterday you complained about the sixers trading mcw because he was "one of their best perimeter shooters". now today you say he is not "able to shoot." you are all over the place, my friend. which one is it?
mcw shot 40% from the floor last year and has dropped to 38% this year. (2nd to last in league among point guards). here is what the 6 guys you mentioned did in the same time frame:
tony parker: 42% first year, improved to 46% 2nd year
chris paul: 43% first year, improved to 43.7% 2nd year
rajon rondo: shot 41% first year, improved to 49% 2nd year
r westbrook: shot 40% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year
kyle lowry: shot 37% first year, improved to 43% 2nd year
john wall: shot 41% first year, improved to 42% 2nd year
there's a reason mcw started out lower and dropped even lower than all the guys you mentioned (the only one not to improve)....it is because he is a TERRIBLE shooter just like he was in college. speaking of college here the players mentioned above college fg%:
mcw- 39% ....3pt- 30%
parker- 48% (europe)....3pt-45%
paul- 47%...3pt- 47%
rondo- 49%...3pt- 28%
westbrook- 46%...3pt- 35%
lowry- 45%...3pt- 33% (44% his last year at nova)
wall- 46%...3pt- 33%
why show the college stats? because it's indicative of the types of shooters they are and it means, even if they started out slow, especially from 3pt range in the nba, that they have a past that says it will probably come in time (rondo's never been known as a good shooter for his career, but his improvement to 49% in his 2nd year shows how even he is superior to mcw)....except for mr carter williams.
also, the fact that you would compare mcw to the best point guards in the league is quite baffling.
stick to st joes
some things never change
Point is, we're looking at a team that should be able to add steady streams of talent every year for the foreseeable future, at a point where most rebuilding teams have already cashed in all their chips and are simply sitting around waiting for things to start getting better. Maybe when the time is right, we package a couple of those considerable future assets together and go get ourselves the next Kevin Garnett or James Harden. Maybe when the time is right, we add him through free agency. Help is on the way for the Sixers, and a lot of it, and for a long time to come. The team was already starting to play like a legitimate NBA squad this season, and the eventual four best players on the 2016-17 Sixers might not even be on the active roster yet. Good times lie ahead.
I just want to understand the absolutely unwavering support for Hinkie. It's an even bigger mystery than the Chip Kelly love fest. I mean at least Chip had success at the college level. Hinkie has never held this job before and came from a franchise that in every year he was there their record got worse than the previous year. and looking like the same might occur this year for this franchise. I don't get it.
Shooting ability is the number one attribute of a good perimeter player and MCW is the 2nd worst shooting point guard in the entire NBA.
Hawks---just give it up. You're embarrassing yourself.
chip kelly is a loser