good post vinny. i have a lot of respect for you and your posts. now if maybe 3 or 4 more people on your side were this articulate we might be able to have a serious worthwhile debate.
Oh so what just because Im not as articulate as some one im not worth listening to, Im not worthy of having an opinion ? You got some nerve.. :x
wow arent we feeling important? it was not directed at you specifically, but you can imply what you want from it, i do not really care anymore.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
Are you saying people disagreeing about disagreeing is a bad thing? You make me sick you commy, facist, socialistic fuck
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
Are you saying people disagreeing about disagreeing is a bad thing? You make me sick you commy, facist, socialistic fuck
LMAO....this is funny.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
Are you saying people disagreeing about disagreeing is a bad thing? You make me sick you commy, facist, socialistic fuck
So perfect and aerial...if this is a grassroots American non-partisan uprising...why did it take off after January 2009? Where were these people with Medicare Part D, turning the largest surplus into the largest defitcit, and the trampling the Bush administration did on the Constitution you all love to carry in your pockets? Where were you then? Where were you when the Bush admin bailed out the banks on Wall Street. There were no massive protests there. There were no signs claiming expanding Medicare to Nazi Germany. Don't say it's been brewing for a while, we both know that is bullshit. Why did it all change in January of 2009?
I have tried to explain this before and will not answer the "where were you when Bush was President?" again.....if this movement started then would understand it better?
if so, why?......all I will say to that question for now on is "better late than never"!
yes, i would. becos then i would have some reason to believe this is about the issues, not just a cloak to present the same old bullshit republican policies this country rejected in 08 and return to business as usual. all you want to see is obama gone. palin could be elected tomorrow and adopt every majoy position obama has now and you would all disappear and stop talking about socialism and praise palin for thinking about the common man. this isnt about the issues, it's about gaining validation for the redneck version of republicanism.
I want ALL the liars (ALL politicians) in Washington to do the job they were elected to do and Stop acting as if Americans are stupid. I may not be the most articulate ( I not only envy you that are I respect you) person but I do have standards. I am not a republican or a racist and I do not hate Obama. Your post is not True.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Dude, just answer why no one was this fired up in December 2008? Fast forward 30 days and it's all the rave? Just answer that.
nobody can answer that other than saying "it was a groundswell of a silent majority that is now becoming loud and making a tidal wave" or something like that.
these people were arrogant enough to think that mccain was going to be swept into office. they did not think that about 8 million more people would block that from happening.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
no ... simply that we share more common beliefs than we have differences ... our gov'ts should govern openly and honestly for the people ... the simple fact of the matter is that they do not ... they split people up to discuss secondary topics to create a divide during which they continue to take everyone for what their worth ...
soo ... while they create this left vs. right, republican vs. democrat dichotomy ... the reality is they are playing both sides of the fence ... in the end they manipulate the system to benefit the few at the expense of the many ...
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
no ... simply that we share more common beliefs than we have differences ... our gov'ts should govern openly and honestly for the people ... the simple fact of the matter is that they do not ... they split people up to discuss secondary topics to create a divide during which they continue to take everyone for what their worth ...
soo ... while they create this left vs. right, republican vs. democrat dichotomy ... the reality is they are playing both sides of the fence ... in the end they manipulate the system to benefit the few at the expense of the many ...
of course folks have common beliefs and goals, it's just a matter of how we get there...that's where the problems start...
personally I'm glad we have at least two distinct sides...and I'd be happy if a third, fourth and fifth party joined the fray...we do I feel this way...? because not everyone is going to agree about everything...every problem has lots and lots and lots of solutions....so it takes time to pick one or six...that's what democracy is...folks have a say...and folks can complain, moan, protest, yell, and so on...it's part of the process...and unless we go to one party one ruler, things aren't going to change...
Not sure I agree bout that, but I do agree it's a great example about how we can't even have rational debate in this nation without media driven generalizations and silly catch phrases taking over. The dumbing down of society is so strong and widespread, you can't have an open discussion without it deterating into a mud throwing contest where both sides use half-truthes and say or do anything to make some point in order to win some bs arguement which ends up being about nothing or a sidenote to the actual issue or topic.
this thread is a great example of how the powers that be have managed to pit side against side - sorry FiveB ... the empire will not crumble until people start seeing the same things for what they are ...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
of course folks have common beliefs and goals, it's just a matter of how we get there...that's where the problems start...
personally I'm glad we have at least two distinct sides...and I'd be happy if a third, fourth and fifth party joined the fray...we do I feel this way...? because not everyone is going to agree about everything...every problem has lots and lots and lots of solutions....so it takes time to pick one or six...that's what democracy is...folks have a say...and folks can complain, moan, protest, yell, and so on...it's part of the process...and unless we go to one party one ruler, things aren't going to change...
the problem is that everyone is distracted with these "solutions" that no one is actually addressing the main problem: Open and Honest Gov't. I would gladly vote for a conservative even tho i am a socialist at this stage if i knew they would govern in the interests of the people ... that is not happening now whether you have a D or R beside their name ... so, while the general public yip and yap about how much tax is good ... they are basically playing the same game ...
yes, i would. becos then i would have some reason to believe this is about the issues, not just a cloak to present the same old bullshit republican policies this country rejected in 08 and return to business as usual. all you want to see is obama gone. palin could be elected tomorrow and adopt every majoy position obama has now and you would all disappear and stop talking about socialism and praise palin for thinking about the common man. this isnt about the issues, it's about gaining validation for the redneck version of republicanism.
I want ALL the liars (ALL politicians) in Washington to do the job they were elected to do and Stop acting as if Americans are stupid. I may not be the most articulate ( I not only envy you that are I respect you) person but I do have standards. I am not a republican or a racist and I do not hate Obama. Your post is not True.
I appreciate your compliment, but I'm still not convinced. The same stuff was going on long before Obama took office, and there was not a peep from anyone on the right. There was no tea party, no protests. Then, the second he takes office, suddenly all of these non-partisan people are up in arms over his policies that aren't much different from the last guy's? Where there's smoke, there's usually fire... It happened too quick and too well-coordinated to not have been planned well in advance by the Karl Rove's of the right. They timed these things, got the foxnews talking heads to fall in line, and now you all think you're part of a silent majority movement. I'm sorry, but you've been had by the same people that sold you out during the Bush presidency.
of course folks have common beliefs and goals, it's just a matter of how we get there...that's where the problems start...
personally I'm glad we have at least two distinct sides...and I'd be happy if a third, fourth and fifth party joined the fray...we do I feel this way...? because not everyone is going to agree about everything...every problem has lots and lots and lots of solutions....so it takes time to pick one or six...that's what democracy is...folks have a say...and folks can complain, moan, protest, yell, and so on...it's part of the process...and unless we go to one party one ruler, things aren't going to change...
the problem is that everyone is distracted with these "solutions" that no one is actually addressing the main problem: Open and Honest Gov't. I would gladly vote for a conservative even tho i am a socialist at this stage if i knew they would govern in the interests of the people ... that is not happening now whether you have a D or R beside their name ... so, while the general public yip and yap about how much tax is good ... they are basically playing the same game ...
so what's your solution...do we not have political parties...? you speak of interests of the people, well people have differing interests....
you mention taxes...well, hate to break to you, as long as there are taxes people are going to yip and yap...
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
so what's your solution...do we not have political parties...? you speak of interests of the people, well people have differing interests....
you mention taxes...well, hate to break to you, as long as there are taxes people are going to yip and yap...
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
it's one of the few areas i admire the right more than the left. at least the right openly acknowledges that they know most people dont agree with them but they just dont care and are going to pursue it anyway becos they know what's best for everyone. the left always acts like everyone deep down is a hie hard liberal and they're just in denial or ignorant and all they need to to be shown the light. the delusion is kinda hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.
so what's your solution...do we not have political parties...? you speak of interests of the people, well people have differing interests....
you mention taxes...well, hate to break to you, as long as there are taxes people are going to yip and yap...
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
it's one of the few areas i admire the right more than the left. at least the right openly acknowledges that they know most people dont agree with them but they just dont care and are going to pursue it anyway becos they know what's best for everyone. the left always acts like everyone deep down is a hie hard liberal and they're just in denial or ignorant and all they need to to be shown the light. the delusion is kinda hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.
People can't openly discuss an issue without generalizing some side point or side note about the other half. Everything deteriates into finger pointing and arguements over nothing, while the problems just continue to mount and go unresolved. The American public is more of a problem than the government - how bout we all think and discuss that for a moment?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
so what's your solution...do we not have political parties...? you speak of interests of the people, well people have differing interests....
you mention taxes...well, hate to break to you, as long as there are taxes people are going to yip and yap...
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
i think you are missing my point ... i understand that people have different interests and priorities ... all i'm saying is that gov't should be open and honest ... right now - regardless of who is in power - they are only serving special interests ... the solution is to awaken people to this simple fact ... people are either distracted or asleep at the wheel ...
People can't openly discuss an issue without generalizing some side point or side note about the other half. Everything deteriates into finger pointing and arguements over nothing, while the problems just continue to mount and go unresolved. The American public is more of a problem than the government - how bout we all think and discuss that for a moment?
great...what's your solution to the ills of the world...?
so what's your solution...do we not have political parties...? you speak of interests of the people, well people have differing interests....
you mention taxes...well, hate to break to you, as long as there are taxes people are going to yip and yap...
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
i think you are missing my point ... i understand that people have different interests and priorities ... all i'm saying is that gov't should be open and honest ... right now - regardless of who is in power - they are only serving special interests ... the solution is to awaken people to this simple fact ... people are either distracted or asleep at the wheel ...
well, you say gov't should be open and honest...then you go on to say they only serve special interests...well, it seems that you have an idea what gov't is doing, but you happen to not like it...
and folks happen to know the simple fact you speak of...and they go on living there lives...
maybe if you give specific examples and solutions, we can go from there...as it stands we are just talking catchphrases and generalities....
Dude, just answer why no one was this fired up in December 2008? Fast forward 30 days and it's all the rave? Just answer that.
See my last post.
There was no railing against the lamest of lame ducks in history. In comes a president promising change, and with something to prove. I wasn't looking forward to him or McCain, but I will say that the guy got an A+ from yours truly (for what that's worth--- nothing) on his first day in office for speaking out on Guantanamo and promising to close it, and for de-staffing some former lobbyists. That was his best day in office. I often wonder if one of his bigger campaign contributors tapped him on the shoulder after a day like that, and told him to slow it down a little bit
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
Right. Doesn't guaranteeing the protection of liberty across the board assure that the most number of people are given the best chance at pursing that perfect world?
well, you say gov't should be open and honest...then you go on to say they only serve special interests...well, it seems that you have an idea what gov't is doing, but you happen to not like it...
and folks happen to know the simple fact you speak of...and they go on living there lives...
maybe if you give specific examples and solutions, we can go from there...as it stands we are just talking catchphrases and generalities....
i do not know all the ins and outs of gov't dealings ... it's impossible to know everything but it's fairly clear that ventures into Iraq have nothing to do with the interests of the american public ...
folks DO NOT know of this simple fact - that is the problem ... many believe that the letter they stand beside does right by them ...
example: voting for anyone who supports this corporately run gov't solution: voting for people who do not support it
i feel sorry that many feel you have to vote for obama because he is the lesser of two evils rather than the person you most want ... that is ultimately how they want you to act ...
The first solution in any problem is to correcting diagnosis it and look in the mirror. The American public wines about everything yet does nothing to change anything. If we want to see substancial change, people need to educate themselves on the ways of the world and be involved constantly - not just show up occasionally at the voting booth. Secondly, grass roots organizing for the removal of the lobbying system which impedes the citizens getting what they need from business interests ruling the roost. If we could do those 2 things over the long term, most of our problems would solve themselves. Now with that all said, I do no think the American people care enough or have enough insight, education or morals to follow through on anything significant or long lasting. So to sum it up, I have little or no faith in my nation getting back on the "right path".
People can't openly discuss an issue without generalizing some side point or side note about the other half. Everything deteriates into finger pointing and arguements over nothing, while the problems just continue to mount and go unresolved. The American public is more of a problem than the government - how bout we all think and discuss that for a moment?
great...what's your solution to the ills of the world...?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
Right. Doesn't guaranteeing the protection of liberty across the board assure that the most number of people are given the best chance at pursing that perfect world?
I suppose, if you happen believe that a perfect world is attainable...
this word "liberty" a.k.a. freedom is a wonderful thing...and a very abstract notion...one mans freedom can be seen as another mans ball and chain...
don't get me wrong, I'm all about freedom...I also understand there are basic norms, laws, and rules that are in place that keep a society from turning into Somalia....
well, you say gov't should be open and honest...then you go on to say they only serve special interests...well, it seems that you have an idea what gov't is doing, but you happen to not like it...
and folks happen to know the simple fact you speak of...and they go on living there lives...
maybe if you give specific examples and solutions, we can go from there...as it stands we are just talking catchphrases and generalities....
i do not know all the ins and outs of gov't dealings ... it's impossible to know everything but it's fairly clear that ventures into Iraq have nothing to do with the interests of the american public ...
folks DO NOT know of this simple fact - that is the problem ... many believe that the letter they stand beside does right by them ...
example: voting for anyone who supports this corporately run gov't solution: voting for people who do not support it
i feel sorry that many feel you have to vote for obama because he is the lesser of two evils rather than the person you most want ... that is ultimately how they want you to act ...
no need to feel sorry for anyone...people freely went to the polls and cast their vote...a beautiful thing imo...
Iraq...we have less troops there and violence is down...would I love it we could pack up shop and leave yesterday, I sure would...do I understand there is more to it...yes...do I agree with the US being there, nope...but I understand things take time...
hey, if you have a plan to get the US out of Iraq yesterday, by all means, share it...
The first solution in any problem is to correcting diagnosis it and look in the mirror. The American public wines about everything yet does nothing to change anything. If we want to see substancial change,
that's a big 'if' and that's my point. you're assuming most people do want substantial change. i'd say you're wrong about that. even with our problems today, we have it pretty easy. nobody in america wants too much upheaval becos we've got it pretty good overall.
The first solution in any problem is to correcting diagnosis it and look in the mirror. The American public wines about everything yet does nothing to change anything. If we want to see substancial change, people need to educate themselves on the ways of the world and be involved constantly - not just show up occasionally at the voting booth. Secondly, grass roots organizing for the removal of the lobbying system which impedes the citizens getting what they need from business interests ruling the roost. If we could do those 2 things over the long term, most of our problems would solve themselves. Now with that all said, I do no think the American people care enough or have enough insight, education or morals to follow through on anything significant or long lasting. So to sum it up, I have little or no faith in my nation getting back on the "right path".
People can't openly discuss an issue without generalizing some side point or side note about the other half. Everything deteriates into finger pointing and arguements over nothing, while the problems just continue to mount and go unresolved. The American public is more of a problem than the government - how bout we all think and discuss that for a moment?
great...what's your solution to the ills of the world...?
yikes...sucks to be you....
seriously...these sort of discussions have been happening since the dawn of time...everyone has a better idea and they think everyone should join them in their fight....
please know, I don't disagree with your stance...I just don't think it's as bad as you think...I have plenty of faith that everything will be just fine...and if it turns out, I'm wrong...so be it, I'll adapt...
Comments
wow arent we feeling important? it was not directed at you specifically, but you can imply what you want from it, i do not really care anymore.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
are you saying people disagreeing is a bad thing....?
Are you saying people disagreeing about disagreeing is a bad thing? You make me sick you commy, facist, socialistic fuck
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
nice...!!!!
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
these people were arrogant enough to think that mccain was going to be swept into office. they did not think that about 8 million more people would block that from happening.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
no ... simply that we share more common beliefs than we have differences ... our gov'ts should govern openly and honestly for the people ... the simple fact of the matter is that they do not ... they split people up to discuss secondary topics to create a divide during which they continue to take everyone for what their worth ...
soo ... while they create this left vs. right, republican vs. democrat dichotomy ... the reality is they are playing both sides of the fence ... in the end they manipulate the system to benefit the few at the expense of the many ...
I AM A SOCIALIST!!!
Well, enjoy hell. Because that's where you go when you don't enjoy freedom.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
of course folks have common beliefs and goals, it's just a matter of how we get there...that's where the problems start...
personally I'm glad we have at least two distinct sides...and I'd be happy if a third, fourth and fifth party joined the fray...we do I feel this way...? because not everyone is going to agree about everything...every problem has lots and lots and lots of solutions....so it takes time to pick one or six...that's what democracy is...folks have a say...and folks can complain, moan, protest, yell, and so on...it's part of the process...and unless we go to one party one ruler, things aren't going to change...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
the problem is that everyone is distracted with these "solutions" that no one is actually addressing the main problem: Open and Honest Gov't. I would gladly vote for a conservative even tho i am a socialist at this stage if i knew they would govern in the interests of the people ... that is not happening now whether you have a D or R beside their name ... so, while the general public yip and yap about how much tax is good ... they are basically playing the same game ...
I appreciate your compliment, but I'm still not convinced. The same stuff was going on long before Obama took office, and there was not a peep from anyone on the right. There was no tea party, no protests. Then, the second he takes office, suddenly all of these non-partisan people are up in arms over his policies that aren't much different from the last guy's? Where there's smoke, there's usually fire... It happened too quick and too well-coordinated to not have been planned well in advance by the Karl Rove's of the right. They timed these things, got the foxnews talking heads to fall in line, and now you all think you're part of a silent majority movement. I'm sorry, but you've been had by the same people that sold you out during the Bush presidency.
so what's your solution...do we not have political parties...? you speak of interests of the people, well people have differing interests....
you mention taxes...well, hate to break to you, as long as there are taxes people are going to yip and yap...
I think folks get this notion of a perfect world in there head and then forget that others have there own notion of a perfect world in their head...and sometimes they are not the same...
it's one of the few areas i admire the right more than the left. at least the right openly acknowledges that they know most people dont agree with them but they just dont care and are going to pursue it anyway becos they know what's best for everyone. the left always acts like everyone deep down is a hie hard liberal and they're just in denial or ignorant and all they need to to be shown the light. the delusion is kinda hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.
sad but true....
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i think you are missing my point ... i understand that people have different interests and priorities ... all i'm saying is that gov't should be open and honest ... right now - regardless of who is in power - they are only serving special interests ... the solution is to awaken people to this simple fact ... people are either distracted or asleep at the wheel ...
great...what's your solution to the ills of the world...?
well, you say gov't should be open and honest...then you go on to say they only serve special interests...well, it seems that you have an idea what gov't is doing, but you happen to not like it...
and folks happen to know the simple fact you speak of...and they go on living there lives...
maybe if you give specific examples and solutions, we can go from there...as it stands we are just talking catchphrases and generalities....
There was no railing against the lamest of lame ducks in history. In comes a president promising change, and with something to prove. I wasn't looking forward to him or McCain, but I will say that the guy got an A+ from yours truly (for what that's worth--- nothing) on his first day in office for speaking out on Guantanamo and promising to close it, and for de-staffing some former lobbyists. That was his best day in office. I often wonder if one of his bigger campaign contributors tapped him on the shoulder after a day like that, and told him to slow it down a little bit
Right. Doesn't guaranteeing the protection of liberty across the board assure that the most number of people are given the best chance at pursing that perfect world?
i do not know all the ins and outs of gov't dealings ... it's impossible to know everything but it's fairly clear that ventures into Iraq have nothing to do with the interests of the american public ...
folks DO NOT know of this simple fact - that is the problem ... many believe that the letter they stand beside does right by them ...
example: voting for anyone who supports this corporately run gov't solution: voting for people who do not support it
i feel sorry that many feel you have to vote for obama because he is the lesser of two evils rather than the person you most want ... that is ultimately how they want you to act ...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I suppose, if you happen believe that a perfect world is attainable...
this word "liberty" a.k.a. freedom is a wonderful thing...and a very abstract notion...one mans freedom can be seen as another mans ball and chain...
don't get me wrong, I'm all about freedom...I also understand there are basic norms, laws, and rules that are in place that keep a society from turning into Somalia....
no need to feel sorry for anyone...people freely went to the polls and cast their vote...a beautiful thing imo...
Iraq...we have less troops there and violence is down...would I love it we could pack up shop and leave yesterday, I sure would...do I understand there is more to it...yes...do I agree with the US being there, nope...but I understand things take time...
hey, if you have a plan to get the US out of Iraq yesterday, by all means, share it...
that's a big 'if' and that's my point. you're assuming most people do want substantial change. i'd say you're wrong about that. even with our problems today, we have it pretty easy. nobody in america wants too much upheaval becos we've got it pretty good overall.
yikes...sucks to be you....
seriously...these sort of discussions have been happening since the dawn of time...everyone has a better idea and they think everyone should join them in their fight....
please know, I don't disagree with your stance...I just don't think it's as bad as you think...I have plenty of faith that everything will be just fine...and if it turns out, I'm wrong...so be it, I'll adapt...