At what point?

FiveB247x
FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
edited November 2009 in A Moving Train
At what point?

At what point will we look around and be so fed up with the nation around us that we are serious about fixing the problems that continually haunt us? Our society merely picks sides and cares more about silly antics and side-note tabloid type foolishness than the future outcome of our nation and world. Our education system is awful, our healthcare is terrible, our social security is failing, our government is corrupt and politicians are run by big business, yet everyone is too wrapped up in their own little worlds of consumerism and greed they don't care enough to fix anything. Media, entertainment and public relations have so warped our society; people can't function or are too easily trained to have the attention span of a spastic dog and ability to think for themselves even less. There's no way around it. What will the final straw be before our society wakes up? Another terrorist attack? Another economic collapse followed by another heist of tax funds? Seriously, the depth of our society's tolerance and ignorance is astounding. In the long term, you reap what you sow. It may not be an overnight catastrophe, but in the end, this nation will falter because of its greed and grasp for world power while being led by a small group of elite as the masses march in line under the guise of patriotism and justice. We won't be invaded and taken over like in some world war movie plot, in my opinion; we will slowly lose control of what brought us together, federalism, and as a result slowly splinter off into small areas of loosely connected places similar to the original colonies. Except this time, we won't be collectively coming together under the guise of freedom and a new way; we'll be separating in a failed experiment. And maybe years later there will be another group of people who wonder - at what point should we try again, but many will cry out, at what point did the last experiment fail? And the universal reply will be that the same reasons it began, it came to an end. Many like to say that mankind is so flawed it is inherently impossible to adjust, but perhaps it is just mankind’s loss of rational thought and wisdom which led to their downfall. In the Age of Enlightenment, people dreamt of a future without war, poverty and a world full of equality and goodness. At what point do you scratch your head and seriously wonder what kind of future the world will be in store for us? It’s not a pretty picture.
CONservative governMENt

Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    We will look around and do something when this EMPIRE collapses like ALL other empires. I just hope some of us will still be around.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Even worse is the thought of nuclear world war.
    g under p wrote:
    We will look around and do something when this EMPIRE collapses like ALL other empires. I just hope some of us will still be around.

    Peace
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    its easy to get bitter.






    but i still hope. i believe that the good in people will outwiegh their greed and selfishness, that the world won't always be as its been. that empire and war are games played the rich, at the expense of the many, and that eventually the many will realize this. managers and merchants can't have their way forever. an individual is more important than a company. the people are more important than the empire.
  • BG44858
    BG44858 Posts: 25
    "the more ( the Empire) tightens your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers)"
  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    I totally feel what your saying but could your signature line "CONservative governMENt" represent part of the "taking sides" game you spoke out against?
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    FiveB247x wrote:
    At what point?

    At what point will we look around and be so fed up with the nation around us that we are serious about fixing the problems that continually haunt us? Our society merely picks sides and cares more about silly antics and side-note tabloid type foolishness than the future outcome of our nation and world. Our education system is awful, our healthcare is terrible, our social security is failing, our government is corrupt and politicians are run by big business, yet everyone is too wrapped up in their own little worlds of consumerism and greed they don't care enough to fix anything. Media, entertainment and public relations have so warped our society; people can't function or are too easily trained to have the attention span of a spastic dog and ability to think for themselves even less. There's no way around it. What will the final straw be before our society wakes up? Another terrorist attack? Another economic collapse followed by another heist of tax funds? Seriously, the depth of our society's tolerance and ignorance is astounding. In the long term, you reap what you sow. It may not be an overnight catastrophe, but in the end, this nation will falter because of its greed and grasp for world power while being led by a small group of elite as the masses march in line under the guise of patriotism and justice. We won't be invaded and taken over like in some world war movie plot, in my opinion; we will slowly lose control of what brought us together, federalism, and as a result slowly splinter off into small areas of loosely connected places similar to the original colonies. Except this time, we won't be collectively coming together under the guise of freedom and a new way; we'll be separating in a failed experiment. And maybe years later there will be another group of people who wonder - at what point should we try again, but many will cry out, at what point did the last experiment fail? And the universal reply will be that the same reasons it began, it came to an end. Many like to say that mankind is so flawed it is inherently impossible to adjust, but perhaps it is just mankind’s loss of rational thought and wisdom which led to their downfall. In the Age of Enlightenment, people dreamt of a future without war, poverty and a world full of equality and goodness. At what point do you scratch your head and seriously wonder what kind of future the world will be in store for us? It’s not a pretty picture.

    There is a movement trying to help keep America together and get back on track. The Tea Party is a movement with a simple back to the basics (honesty, integrity, patriotism, accountability etc.) agenda that includes ALL AMERICANS that want to join. This is not a racist or hate filled organization.
    Let Washington know you ARE paying attention.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,826
    FiveB247x wrote:
    At what point?

    At what point will we look around and be so fed up with the nation around us that we are serious about fixing the problems that continually haunt us?

    I don't know about anyone else, but I'm there.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    aerial wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    At what point?

    At what point will we look around and be so fed up with the nation around us that we are serious about fixing the problems that continually haunt us? Our society merely picks sides and cares more about silly antics and side-note tabloid type foolishness than the future outcome of our nation and world. Our education system is awful, our healthcare is terrible, our social security is failing, our government is corrupt and politicians are run by big business, yet everyone is too wrapped up in their own little worlds of consumerism and greed they don't care enough to fix anything. Media, entertainment and public relations have so warped our society; people can't function or are too easily trained to have the attention span of a spastic dog and ability to think for themselves even less. There's no way around it. What will the final straw be before our society wakes up? Another terrorist attack? Another economic collapse followed by another heist of tax funds? Seriously, the depth of our society's tolerance and ignorance is astounding. In the long term, you reap what you sow. It may not be an overnight catastrophe, but in the end, this nation will falter because of its greed and grasp for world power while being led by a small group of elite as the masses march in line under the guise of patriotism and justice. We won't be invaded and taken over like in some world war movie plot, in my opinion; we will slowly lose control of what brought us together, federalism, and as a result slowly splinter off into small areas of loosely connected places similar to the original colonies. Except this time, we won't be collectively coming together under the guise of freedom and a new way; we'll be separating in a failed experiment. And maybe years later there will be another group of people who wonder - at what point should we try again, but many will cry out, at what point did the last experiment fail? And the universal reply will be that the same reasons it began, it came to an end. Many like to say that mankind is so flawed it is inherently impossible to adjust, but perhaps it is just mankind’s loss of rational thought and wisdom which led to their downfall. In the Age of Enlightenment, people dreamt of a future without war, poverty and a world full of equality and goodness. At what point do you scratch your head and seriously wonder what kind of future the world will be in store for us? It’s not a pretty picture.

    There is a movement trying to help keep America together and get back on track. The Tea Party is a movement with a simple back to the basics (honesty, integrity, patriotism, accountability etc.) agenda that includes ALL AMERICANS that want to join. This is not a racist or hate filled organization.
    Let Washington know you ARE paying attention.
    stop feeding us this "non-racist or hate filled" crap! did you SEE the signs that were are michelle bachmann's "press conference" yesterday? there were signs featuring a photo of a pile of emaciated dead bodies take from the dachau concentration camp in 1945 with the heading "national socialist health care, dachau 1945" and multiple multiple racist sign held up. you tell me how that is not "hate filled"!! when you have the republican leadership, people elected by the people standing in font of large groups telling people we need a revolution, that is treason against the government, not just a litle protest. the tea bag movement and the gop are alienating the rest of the nation, and even the moderate wing of the GOP and they are showing their true colors as a bunch of marginalized, redneck, racist, STUPID, hate filed, racist, simpletons...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    At what point?

    At what point will we look around and be so fed up with the nation around us that we are serious about fixing the problems that continually haunt us? Our society merely picks sides and cares more about silly antics and side-note tabloid type foolishness than the future outcome of our nation and world. Our education system is awful, our healthcare is terrible, our social security is failing, our government is corrupt and politicians are run by big business, yet everyone is too wrapped up in their own little worlds of consumerism and greed they don't care enough to fix anything. Media, entertainment and public relations have so warped our society; people can't function or are too easily trained to have the attention span of a spastic dog and ability to think for themselves even less. There's no way around it. What will the final straw be before our society wakes up? Another terrorist attack? Another economic collapse followed by another heist of tax funds? Seriously, the depth of our society's tolerance and ignorance is astounding. In the long term, you reap what you sow. It may not be an overnight catastrophe, but in the end, this nation will falter because of its greed and grasp for world power while being led by a small group of elite as the masses march in line under the guise of patriotism and justice. We won't be invaded and taken over like in some world war movie plot, in my opinion; we will slowly lose control of what brought us together, federalism, and as a result slowly splinter off into small areas of loosely connected places similar to the original colonies. Except this time, we won't be collectively coming together under the guise of freedom and a new way; we'll be separating in a failed experiment. And maybe years later there will be another group of people who wonder - at what point should we try again, but many will cry out, at what point did the last experiment fail? And the universal reply will be that the same reasons it began, it came to an end. Many like to say that mankind is so flawed it is inherently impossible to adjust, but perhaps it is just mankind’s loss of rational thought and wisdom which led to their downfall. In the Age of Enlightenment, people dreamt of a future without war, poverty and a world full of equality and goodness. At what point do you scratch your head and seriously wonder what kind of future the world will be in store for us? It’s not a pretty picture.

    There is a movement trying to help keep America together and get back on track. The Tea Party is a movement with a simple back to the basics (honesty, integrity, patriotism, accountability etc.) agenda that includes ALL AMERICANS that want to join. This is not a racist or hate filled organization.
    Let Washington know you ARE paying attention.
    stop feeding us this "non-racist or hate filled" crap! did you SEE the signs that were are michelle bachmann's "press conference" yesterday? there were signs featuring a photo of a pile of emaciated dead bodies take from the dachau concentration camp in 1945 with the heading "national socialist health care, dachau 1945" and multiple multiple racist sign held up. you tell me how that is not "hate filled"!! when you have the republican leadership, people elected by the people standing in font of large groups telling people we need a revolution, that is treason against the government, not just a litle protest. the tea bag movement and the gop are alienating the rest of the nation, and even the moderate wing of the GOP and they are showing their true colors as a bunch of marginalized, redneck, racist, STUPID, hate filed, racist, simpletons...
    They have and are ruining what started out as a good thing. Its almost impossible to trust anything anymore.
    Wait in God I trust.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,826
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    when you have the republican leadership, people elected by the people standing in font of large groups telling people we need a revolution, that is treason against the government, not just a litle protest.
    When does a "little" protest ever solve anything?
    Also it's government officials that commit treason when they ignore their oath of office when they sell us out to special interests, and send us off to unjust wars. The founders wrote in the Delcaration of Independence that it is actually our DUTY to abolish government, and institute new government that recognizes the rights of man if necessary:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

    I will give you this, if GOP leadership is actually calling for revolution, they had best be careful what they wished for, they are just as guilty of bringing us to where we are right now as any Democrat.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    You nailed it Vinney.
    Spoken like a true patriot!!
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    In my opinion, our government (both Dems and Reps) are Con men. They are one in the same - both protecting the status quo, their power and business interests. That is Conservatism in it's most natural form. People who walk around saying their Republicans/ Conservatives - they're just labels which don't hold water to their actual textbook definition.
    markin ball wrote:
    I totally feel what your saying but could your signature line "CONservative governMENt" represent part of the "taking sides" game you spoke out against?



    Commy, it's nice to think the good will outweight and outlast the bad, but these same problems have been going on for a long long time. Whether it's something simple like a few apples spoil the bunch or just bureacracy and organization loses the messages, things just don't get fixed. Our world is only deteriating more and more over time, and will more polarized populations and poorer education, it only grows into hatred, bigotry and excuses to justify economic separation and suffering.
    Commy wrote:
    its easy to get bitter.






    but i still hope. i believe that the good in people will outwiegh their greed and selfishness, that the world won't always be as its been. that empire and war are games played the rich, at the expense of the many, and that eventually the many will realize this. managers and merchants can't have their way forever. an individual is more important than a company. the people are more important than the empire.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,826
    edited November 2009
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Commy, it's nice to think the good will outweight and outlast the bad, but these same problems have been going on for a long long time. Whether it's something simple like a few apples spoil the bunch or just bureacracy and organization loses the messages, things just don't get fixed. Our world is only deteriating more and more over time, and will more polarized populations and poorer education, it only grows into hatred, bigotry and excuses to justify economic separation and suffering.

    There is no respect for the rule of law. It is not enforced equally among anyone. This is precisely why the law should be simple, and easy to interpret. It would be that much more helpful in holding politicians and corporations to the same standard by which the rest of us are held. Special laws and regulations grant these people immunity, and play with a completely different set of rules than the rest of us. That needs to change.
    Post edited by VINNY GOOMBA on
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the empire WILL NOT FALL ... previous empires were rooted in geography and nationalistic goals ... this empire is global - it's the uber-elite ... you can't operate like these bastards without consent from others ...
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    It's depends how you describe the US empire - is it merely military might? Or economic stout through things like the IMF, WB and US dollar being the standard? Since the end of the Cold War, it's gone to a unilateral setup with the US being the world leader, yet as time passes, it's becoming clearer that the US can't continue in the same manner and breathe. We now see many powers becoming more vocal and making decisions which counter the US power and leans more towards a world in which no one nation will determine the fate of all of them. Whether it's Russia, China, the EU or similar, we have and are becoming a much more diverse world in terms of economic standing, power and abilities. But without some sort of generic set of rules and laws, it merely means there's more wrong-doing and more of a power grab at stake. The 20th century dream of the world consensus for a better tomorrow through diplomacy, no war and equality has fallen to the way-side because of everyone's self-interest. People love to complain about the UN, but in fact, the only thing that's wrong with it is it's members - not the institution or its ideals it's based upon. Very sad indeed.
    polaris_x wrote:
    the empire WILL NOT FALL ... previous empires were rooted in geography and nationalistic goals ... this empire is global - it's the uber-elite ... you can't operate like these bastards without consent from others ...
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    FiveB247x wrote:
    It's depends how you describe the US empire - is it merely military might? Or economic stout through things like the IMF, WB and US dollar being the standard? Since the end of the Cold War, it's gone to a unilateral setup with the US being the world leader, yet as time passes, it's becoming clearer that the US can't continue in the same manner and breathe. We now see many powers becoming more vocal and making decisions which counter the US power and leans more towards a world in which no one nation will determine the fate of all of them. Whether it's Russia, China, the EU or similar, we have and are becoming a much more diverse world in terms of economic standing, power and abilities. But without some sort of generic set of rules and laws, it merely means there's more wrong-doing and more of a power grab at stake. The 20th century dream of the world consensus for a better tomorrow through diplomacy, no war and equality has fallen to the way-side because of everyone's self-interest. People love to complain about the UN, but in fact, the only thing that's wrong with it is it's members - not the institution or its ideals it's based upon. Very sad indeed.

    the military is simply a side corporation which operates at very high margins ... it is not about a US empire - a US empire would denote the goal of actually obtaining gains for americans - that is not the case ... the american people are just as exploited ... it's about creating conditions to favour the super-powerful and to take all they can ...
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I agree - so basically what you're deeming is the sum total of American power - economic and underpinnings of international development, global economy and the banking system all which benefit the rich of the world. The New World Order so to speak. There has been a little talk about alternatives to the IMF and WB in specific regions like Asia and the Americas which would greatly benefit their own development with less impact of exploitation by foreign influences. Certainly a nice thing to see, but I don't think it's so promising that it would make me consider the empire as crumbling just yet.

    Here's a great podcast by Planet Money about foreign aid and development and a new way of thinking to help Africa : http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/11/ ... or_af.html
    polaris_x wrote:
    the military is simply a side corporation which operates at very high margins ... it is not about a US empire - a US empire would denote the goal of actually obtaining gains for americans - that is not the case ... the american people are just as exploited ... it's about creating conditions to favour the super-powerful and to take all they can ...
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I agree - so basically what you're deeming is the sum total of American power - economic and underpinnings of international development, global economy and the banking system all which benefit the rich of the world. The New World Order so to speak. There has been a little talk about alternatives to the IMF and WB in specific regions like Asia and the Americas which would greatly benefit their own development with less impact of exploitation by foreign influences. Certainly a nice thing to see, but I don't think it's so promising that it would make me consider the empire as crumbling just yet.

    Here's a great podcast by Planet Money about foreign aid and development and a new way of thinking to help Africa : http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/11/ ... or_af.html

    yes ... the US gov't has been corrupted already so - it seems that it is a US based initiative but rather it's just that other countries are much harder to influence ... i know i will get flack for this but basically - the people of america have been duped for a long time now and now these people have control of the most influential country in the world ...
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Once again I completely agree - sadly, protest and uprisings (if any) are not where they need to be. Hopefully it will keep spreading and people will wake up.
    polaris_x wrote:
    yes ... the US gov't has been corrupted already so - it seems that it is a US based initiative but rather it's just that other countries are much harder to influence ... i know i will get flack for this but basically - the people of america have been duped for a long time now and now these people have control of the most influential country in the world ...
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    when you have the republican leadership, people elected by the people standing in font of large groups telling people we need a revolution, that is treason against the government, not just a litle protest.
    When does a "little" protest ever solve anything?
    Also it's government officials that commit treason when they ignore their oath of office when they sell us out to special interests, and send us off to unjust wars. The founders wrote in the Delcaration of Independence that it is actually our DUTY to abolish government, and institute new government that recognizes the rights of man if necessary:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

    I will give you this, if GOP leadership is actually calling for revolution, they had best be careful what they wished for, they are just as guilty of bringing us to where we are right now as any Democrat.

    did you see how the dumbass john boehner read from what he called "the preamble of the constitution yesterday?" that idiot does not even know that there is no preamble to the constitution and what he read was part of what you posted from the declaration of independence. when the minority leader of the house can not even keep from confusing these two distinctly different documents, and nobody in attendance caught it, it says a lot about the intelligence of the people involved with this "movement"...i will try to find the video and post it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."

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