cheering for the yankees is like going for the house in vegas: they're supposed to win. they have the best players, they spend more than all the other teams.
you know the idea of revenue sharing, which is hardly a capitalist idea, is for the teams that get it (Pirates, Royals etc) to use it on the team and creating a team that people will want to spend money on seeing and creating more revenue for these teams. It's actually kind of sad that more corporations don't follow the Yankees' priniciples of investing in good employees, since a good product in any idea industry will make people want to spend money on the company.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
MINNEAPOLIS – The best pitch ever notched four more kill shots Wednesday night. Mariano Rivera(notes) throws a cut fastball that at its 55th foot takes a hairpin turn into the fists of left-handed batters, and their feeble attempts to hit it end up reinforcing a long-held certitude: The only thing more dangerous to lumber than wood-boring beetles is the New York Yankees’ closer.
The impressiveness of Rivera’s four-out, four-broken-bat save during the Yankees’ thievery of home-field advantage from the Minnesota Twins in a 6-4 victory in Game 1 of the American League Division Series wasn’t because he set some record. He once cracked five bats in an outing. Nor did he earn extra credit for turning baseballs into buzzsaws. An out is an out, shrapnel or not.
What’s mystifying – what has mystified for more than a decade now and will continue to mystify until Rivera retires, which, even after his 40th birthday, remains a long way off – is that he throws a single pitch, a dirty bomb of a pitch, yes, but just one nonetheless. Not only can hitters damn near never make solid contact, they fare so poorly that the lone weapon at their disposal often turns into a useless recyclable.
“He could build a log cabin with all the bats he’s broken,” Yankees outfielder Nick Swisher said.
Instead, the wounded wood ends up in the hands of batboys who bring it back to the dugout gingerly, the fear of splinters evermore palpable following a meeting with a cutter. The bat goes one of three places: in the trash can, a charity auction or a trophy case, affixed with the label: Mo got me, too.
He’s been breaking bats, after all, since the 1997 day when the cutter mysteriously appeared. Rivera credits it as a gift from God. Hitters have prayed to deities since he learned it. And though Sandy Koufax’s curveball and Steve Carlton’s slider and Nolan Ryan’s fastball and Pedro Martinez’s changeup may argue, Rivera’s cutter is the best because it stands alone – nothing to complement it, nothing to throw hitters off its scent, no mystery, no compromise. Here it is. You cannot touch it. If you manage to, give your bat its last rites.
“If you ask anyone else, they get excited when they take a bat,” Yankees reliever Joba Chamberlain said. “I know I do, because I don’t take too many. But it’s just another bat to him.
“He’s taking someone’s gamer that they’ve had a couple hits in. He makes sure there are no more hits left in that thing.”
Exactly how many bats Rivera has slain is unknown. The New York Times kept a tally during the 2001 season and counted 44, including the five-spot against Toronto. Over 80 2/3 innings, that comes out to more than a half-bat per inning, and extrapolating that figure over Rivera’s regular season and postseason innings, he has broken approximately 700. At about $100 a bat, Rivera has caused around $70,000 in wood damage. Termites would be proud.
Per postseason custom, the Yankees summoned Rivera for a four-out save Wednesday. With runners on second and third and the two-run lead precarious, Rivera threw three consecutive balls to Denard Span before forcing the count full. Span’s swing on the 3-2 pitch ended routinely: a nothing ground ball to shortstop Derek Jeter, and a fleck of Span’s bat separating from the rest. When Mariano’s on,” Yankees catcher Jorge Posada said, “he does that.”
Orlando Hudson led off the ninth inning. He fought off cutter after cutter – high and inside, then low and inside, then low and outside, then high and outside. Finally, he got what looked like a hittable pitch. His bat crumbled like balsa.
“That’s why he’s the best closer in baseball,” Hudson said. “That’s the reason he’s still out there. He’s still throwing that.”
Standing inside the batter’s box and watching Rivera’s cutter – it’s an experience almost beyond description, Hudson said, and when he tried to do so, his most effective communication came via an onomatopoeia: “Vooooom!”
Rivera voomed two cutters at Joe Mauer, the second hitter in the ninth and the reigning AL MVP, and his bat cracked near the handle on a soft line drive to first base.
“That cutter is sharp,” Yankees starter CC Sabathia said. “When it’s barreling in, you really have no chance. Every time out, he’s got a chance to break all of them.”
And he didn’t quite do that. Delmon Young lined a ball to right field that Greg Golson caught for what should’ve been the game-ending out. Only the umpiring crew missed the call and gave Rivera an opportunity to rekindle some broken-bat glory.
Up stepped Jim Thome, the fourth left-hander Rivera would face. In his previous 26 plate appearances against Rivera, Thome had swung at the first pitch twice, the last time nearly 12 years to the day, Oct. 7, 1998, in Game 2 of the AL Championship Series. The lumberjack’s hack Thome took ended with the distinct thud of fractured timber, and the ball soon thereafter settled into Alex Rodriguez’s glove for the final out.
The deed was done. Four outs. Four broken bats.
“I don’t keep track of that,” Rivera said.
Because he knows that not all dead wood is equal. One time, he fractured three bats in one inning. All three swings fell for hits, including one of the most famous ever. Even on the worst night of his career, Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, Rivera was breaking bats.
That he continues to do so truly is a marvel. Jeter is showing the signs of aging. Andy Pettitte, the Yankees’ starter in Game 2, had difficulty staying healthy this season. Posada’s defensive skills are nonexistent, and the wear of the position limited him to 78 starts there this season, two fewer than Francisco Cervelli.
Meanwhile, Rivera chugs on, the one-pitch express, the ageless wonder, the bat-breaking genius. Hitters will rejoice when he leaves baseball, tickled that they no longer have to wonder why they can’t figure out what should be so conquerable. Though they’ll be far from the most excited.
That night, there will be one hell of a party on bat racks everywhere.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
I wrote this in the ESPN board. Looking for thoughts if I seem correct.
I just read a few comments about the pitch that was a strike, but TBS just showed the pitch sequence and people seem to overlook the first pitch was called a strike and it was outside. That is the way the umpire is calling the game, but yeah it's a conspiracy.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I wrote this in the ESPN board. Looking for thoughts if I seem correct.
I just read a few comments about the pitch that was a strike, but TBS just showed the pitch sequence and people seem to overlook the first pitch was called a strike and it was outside. That is the way the umpire is calling the game, but yeah it's a conspiracy.
Pavano was living 4 inches or so off the outside corner to lefties all day and this one pitch is getting so much attention.
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
Hughes looking verycomfortable and the Bombers bats are brimming over thge top with confidence.
Bring on The Rangers and then the Phillies.
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
cheering for the yankees is like going for the house in vegas: they're supposed to win. they have the best players, they spend more than all the other teams.
you know the idea of revenue sharing, which is hardly a capitalist idea, is for the teams that get it (Pirates, Royals etc) to use it on the team and creating a team that people will want to spend money on seeing and creating more revenue for these teams. It's actually kind of sad that more corporations don't follow the Yankees' priniciples of investing in good employees, since a good product in any idea industry will make people want to spend money on the company.
The Yankees are 10-6 in the Division Series and that includes winning it in 1981 over the Brewers during the strike season. The Yankees also are 14-7 in a best-of-five series as well as 216-141 in the postseason. This was their 13th playoff series sweep (four in the LDS, one in the ALCS and eight in the World Series).
The nine straight postseason wins over the Twins is the third-most by one team over another in postseason history (Boston 11 straight over the Angels 1986-2008; Oakland 10 straight over Boston 1988-2003).
Yankee pitchers held the Twins to a .222 (2-for-18) batting average with runners in scoring position.
Phil Hughes is the third Yankee in the last 30 years under 25 to make a postseason start (Andy Pettitte and Dave Righetti).
Hughes also is the third Yankee to pitch seven scoreless innings in his first playoff start. The others were Orlando Hernandez in Game Four of the 1998 ALCS against the Indians and Waite Hoyt in Game Two of the 1921 World Series against the New York Giants.
Marcus Thames' home run snapped a 13 at-bat postseason hitless streak dating to the 2006 postseason. He is the 10th Yankee since 1981 to make his first postseason hit as a Yankee a home run. Lance Berkman was the ninth when he did it in Game Two.
Derek Jeter has hit safely in 18 of his last 19 playoff games, going .337 (28-for-83) in that span. He also stole his first postseason base since Game One of the 2005 ALDS.
Over his last 20 postseason appearances, Mariano Rivera has allowed one run. In 12 postseason appearances against the Twins, Rivera has allowed eight hits, struck out 14 and walked one in 16 2/3 scoreless innings.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
The Yankees are 10-6 in the Division Series and that includes winning it in 1981 over the Brewers during the strike season. The Yankees also are 14-7 in a best-of-five series as well as 216-141 in the postseason. This was their 13th playoff series sweep (four in the LDS, one in the ALCS and eight in the World Series).
The nine straight postseason wins over the Twins is the third-most by one team over another in postseason history (Boston 11 straight over the Angels 1986-2008; Oakland 10 straight over Boston 1988-2003).
Yankee pitchers held the Twins to a .222 (2-for-18) batting average with runners in scoring position.
Phil Hughes is the third Yankee in the last 30 years under 25 to make a postseason start (Andy Pettitte and Dave Righetti).
Hughes also is the third Yankee to pitch seven scoreless innings in his first playoff start. The others were Orlando Hernandez in Game Four of the 1998 ALCS against the Indians and Waite Hoyt in Game Two of the 1921 World Series against the New York Giants.
Marcus Thames' home run snapped a 13 at-bat postseason hitless streak dating to the 2006 postseason. He is the 10th Yankee since 1981 to make his first postseason hit as a Yankee a home run. Lance Berkman was the ninth when he did it in Game Two.
Derek Jeter has hit safely in 18 of his last 19 playoff games, going .337 (28-for-83) in that span. He also stole his first postseason base since Game One of the 2005 ALDS.
Over his last 20 postseason appearances, Mariano Rivera has allowed one run. In 12 postseason appearances against the Twins, Rivera has allowed eight hits, struck out 14 and walked one in 16 2/3 scoreless innings.
So that was really the first division series (1981) until they established it in 1995?
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
in all seiousness i hope gardenhire wins one b4 he retires
classy guy
Definitely. He deserves it.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Comments
you know the idea of revenue sharing, which is hardly a capitalist idea, is for the teams that get it (Pirates, Royals etc) to use it on the team and creating a team that people will want to spend money on seeing and creating more revenue for these teams. It's actually kind of sad that more corporations don't follow the Yankees' priniciples of investing in good employees, since a good product in any idea industry will make people want to spend money on the company.
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j ... lumn100710
Rivera’s broken bats are a broken record
MINNEAPOLIS – The best pitch ever notched four more kill shots Wednesday night. Mariano Rivera(notes) throws a cut fastball that at its 55th foot takes a hairpin turn into the fists of left-handed batters, and their feeble attempts to hit it end up reinforcing a long-held certitude: The only thing more dangerous to lumber than wood-boring beetles is the New York Yankees’ closer.
The impressiveness of Rivera’s four-out, four-broken-bat save during the Yankees’ thievery of home-field advantage from the Minnesota Twins in a 6-4 victory in Game 1 of the American League Division Series wasn’t because he set some record. He once cracked five bats in an outing. Nor did he earn extra credit for turning baseballs into buzzsaws. An out is an out, shrapnel or not.
What’s mystifying – what has mystified for more than a decade now and will continue to mystify until Rivera retires, which, even after his 40th birthday, remains a long way off – is that he throws a single pitch, a dirty bomb of a pitch, yes, but just one nonetheless. Not only can hitters damn near never make solid contact, they fare so poorly that the lone weapon at their disposal often turns into a useless recyclable.
“He could build a log cabin with all the bats he’s broken,” Yankees outfielder Nick Swisher said.
Instead, the wounded wood ends up in the hands of batboys who bring it back to the dugout gingerly, the fear of splinters evermore palpable following a meeting with a cutter. The bat goes one of three places: in the trash can, a charity auction or a trophy case, affixed with the label: Mo got me, too.
He’s been breaking bats, after all, since the 1997 day when the cutter mysteriously appeared. Rivera credits it as a gift from God. Hitters have prayed to deities since he learned it. And though Sandy Koufax’s curveball and Steve Carlton’s slider and Nolan Ryan’s fastball and Pedro Martinez’s changeup may argue, Rivera’s cutter is the best because it stands alone – nothing to complement it, nothing to throw hitters off its scent, no mystery, no compromise. Here it is. You cannot touch it. If you manage to, give your bat its last rites.
“If you ask anyone else, they get excited when they take a bat,” Yankees reliever Joba Chamberlain said. “I know I do, because I don’t take too many. But it’s just another bat to him.
“He’s taking someone’s gamer that they’ve had a couple hits in. He makes sure there are no more hits left in that thing.”
Exactly how many bats Rivera has slain is unknown. The New York Times kept a tally during the 2001 season and counted 44, including the five-spot against Toronto. Over 80 2/3 innings, that comes out to more than a half-bat per inning, and extrapolating that figure over Rivera’s regular season and postseason innings, he has broken approximately 700. At about $100 a bat, Rivera has caused around $70,000 in wood damage. Termites would be proud.
Per postseason custom, the Yankees summoned Rivera for a four-out save Wednesday. With runners on second and third and the two-run lead precarious, Rivera threw three consecutive balls to Denard Span before forcing the count full. Span’s swing on the 3-2 pitch ended routinely: a nothing ground ball to shortstop Derek Jeter, and a fleck of Span’s bat separating from the rest. When Mariano’s on,” Yankees catcher Jorge Posada said, “he does that.”
Orlando Hudson led off the ninth inning. He fought off cutter after cutter – high and inside, then low and inside, then low and outside, then high and outside. Finally, he got what looked like a hittable pitch. His bat crumbled like balsa.
“That’s why he’s the best closer in baseball,” Hudson said. “That’s the reason he’s still out there. He’s still throwing that.”
Standing inside the batter’s box and watching Rivera’s cutter – it’s an experience almost beyond description, Hudson said, and when he tried to do so, his most effective communication came via an onomatopoeia: “Vooooom!”
Rivera voomed two cutters at Joe Mauer, the second hitter in the ninth and the reigning AL MVP, and his bat cracked near the handle on a soft line drive to first base.
“That cutter is sharp,” Yankees starter CC Sabathia said. “When it’s barreling in, you really have no chance. Every time out, he’s got a chance to break all of them.”
And he didn’t quite do that. Delmon Young lined a ball to right field that Greg Golson caught for what should’ve been the game-ending out. Only the umpiring crew missed the call and gave Rivera an opportunity to rekindle some broken-bat glory.
Up stepped Jim Thome, the fourth left-hander Rivera would face. In his previous 26 plate appearances against Rivera, Thome had swung at the first pitch twice, the last time nearly 12 years to the day, Oct. 7, 1998, in Game 2 of the AL Championship Series. The lumberjack’s hack Thome took ended with the distinct thud of fractured timber, and the ball soon thereafter settled into Alex Rodriguez’s glove for the final out.
The deed was done. Four outs. Four broken bats.
“I don’t keep track of that,” Rivera said.
Because he knows that not all dead wood is equal. One time, he fractured three bats in one inning. All three swings fell for hits, including one of the most famous ever. Even on the worst night of his career, Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, Rivera was breaking bats.
That he continues to do so truly is a marvel. Jeter is showing the signs of aging. Andy Pettitte, the Yankees’ starter in Game 2, had difficulty staying healthy this season. Posada’s defensive skills are nonexistent, and the wear of the position limited him to 78 starts there this season, two fewer than Francisco Cervelli.
Meanwhile, Rivera chugs on, the one-pitch express, the ageless wonder, the bat-breaking genius. Hitters will rejoice when he leaves baseball, tickled that they no longer have to wonder why they can’t figure out what should be so conquerable. Though they’ll be far from the most excited.
That night, there will be one hell of a party on bat racks everywhere.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
tampa is probably wishing they did
I just read a few comments about the pitch that was a strike, but TBS just showed the pitch sequence and people seem to overlook the first pitch was called a strike and it was outside. That is the way the umpire is calling the game, but yeah it's a conspiracy.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Pavano was living 4 inches or so off the outside corner to lefties all day and this one pitch is getting so much attention.
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
Bring on The Rangers and then the Phillies.
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
i was gonna start a Hughes is throwing a perfect game thread when he got the first 9 outs. But decided against it.
3 OUTS
My threads bring championships.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
perfect series kids
very business-like
friday night it really begins
nice to collect our breath this week
it's been awhile
huuuuuuuuuuuuuuughes
mon and tues home
didnt see rest of sched
classy guy
I love Gardenhire. & the Twins. & Thome. maybe another year, fellas.
very well said, nothing to add
The Yankees are 10-6 in the Division Series and that includes winning it in 1981 over the Brewers during the strike season. The Yankees also are 14-7 in a best-of-five series as well as 216-141 in the postseason. This was their 13th playoff series sweep (four in the LDS, one in the ALCS and eight in the World Series).
The nine straight postseason wins over the Twins is the third-most by one team over another in postseason history (Boston 11 straight over the Angels 1986-2008; Oakland 10 straight over Boston 1988-2003).
Yankee pitchers held the Twins to a .222 (2-for-18) batting average with runners in scoring position.
Phil Hughes is the third Yankee in the last 30 years under 25 to make a postseason start (Andy Pettitte and Dave Righetti).
Hughes also is the third Yankee to pitch seven scoreless innings in his first playoff start. The others were Orlando Hernandez in Game Four of the 1998 ALCS against the Indians and Waite Hoyt in Game Two of the 1921 World Series against the New York Giants.
Marcus Thames' home run snapped a 13 at-bat postseason hitless streak dating to the 2006 postseason. He is the 10th Yankee since 1981 to make his first postseason hit as a Yankee a home run. Lance Berkman was the ninth when he did it in Game Two.
Derek Jeter has hit safely in 18 of his last 19 playoff games, going .337 (28-for-83) in that span. He also stole his first postseason base since Game One of the 2005 ALDS.
Over his last 20 postseason appearances, Mariano Rivera has allowed one run. In 12 postseason appearances against the Twins, Rivera has allowed eight hits, struck out 14 and walked one in 16 2/3 scoreless innings.
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
So that was really the first division series (1981) until they established it in 1995?
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Definitely. He deserves it.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
the schedule for the entire postseason has been on mlb.com for quite some time now.
ok and i saw this on the postgame and threw it up quick
thanks though