Let's talk war!!

OnTheEdge

Just wondering what some peoples out takes are on the war. I find it kind of sad you don't see much news on it. Death toll is very high and the number of civilian deaths is at an all time high. Not sure what to make of it. We can't just leave, because then they win, and the taliban will see that as vulnerable and attack us again....if they don't again anyways. What do people think? All the news lately is on health care and economy while we have americans fighting for there lives over sea. From what I hear they're kicking our asses in the mountains.

keeponrockin

I don't buy the 'if we leave they win' argument. If leaving means saving lives, I'll take the loss. I think either way, the taliban will come back, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Just my $0.02.

Evil Merlin Part Deux

My thoughts on any war is that I can't believe for supposedly being the smartest beings on the planet, and we're set apart by the ability to reason, that we've still yet to come to the reason that war should never happen.

As for these current wars, all I can do is hope and wish that this will resolve soon. I have two cousins over there(1 in Iraq, 1 in Afghanistan) right now, one who just left from his R&R from his fourth trip this week(we partied like hell all weekend!) and my close buddy is leaving tomorrow. I've heard far more than I've wanted the last seven years and seriously, it's pretty sickening to watch 'experts' play around with this like it's a game. Those in charge are away from the human element which makes decisions much easier for them to continue on.

I guess you're right as for it not being apart of the hot topics currently being reported. Maybe it's just been beat into many peoples heads and those not connected don't care, and those that are connected get it elsewhere anyway so there's not much demand for it? I'm not sure.

Lets just end it and start building houses and schools. Here and there. Shit. We have the ablity to help, so quit holding it back.

OffHeGoes29

Winning or loosing isn't really the question, its the loss of life now or in the long run. Its something that has to be weighed out by the people who send us to war, whether to expose the lives of soldiers and civilians to harm now or do nothing and risk something more harmful in the future to not only us, but the rest of the world.

When it comes to war people have very narrow view points. Its one side or another, no inbetween, and thats why people have a hard time understanding it because the nature of it isn't black and white. Its a tricky thing to define.....

Backing out of A-stan is the worst thing we can do right now. Iraq has shown great improvement and is on a path for eventual peace, even though plently of people wanted to see it fail. No one said this was going to be a short conflict.

keeponrockin

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Winning or loosing isn't really the question, its the loss of life now or in the long run. Its something that has to be weighed out by the people who send us to war, whether to expose the lives of soldiers and civilians to harm now or do nothing and risk something more harmful in the future to not only us, but the rest of the world.

When it comes to war people have very narrow view points. Its one side or another, no inbetween, and thats why people have a hard time understanding it because the nature of it isn't black and white. Its a tricky thing to define.....

Backing out of A-stan is the worst thing we can do right now. Iraq has shown great improvement and is on a path for eventual peace, even though plently of people wanted to see it fail. No one said this was going to be a short conflict.

Cosmo

Maybe we need to consider history regarding Afghanistan.
Some pretty big names have gotten in... and ran out if that place. Genghis Khan did that... so did Alexander The Great... big fucking military names. More recently, The British and in current history, the mighty Soviet Union. There is no 'backing out' occupied nations... only running out. Like we had to do in Viet Nam, the Soviets had to do in Afghanistan and the Israelis had to do in Lebennon.
I used to support the war in Afghanistan... but after 7 years of neglect, it has digressed into a real fucking mess. It's time to re-assess the pros and cons of that war and decide. I say, time has expired and we will eventually repeat the mistakes made by great military leaders... so, instead of more of our guys dying over there... let's bring them home.

musicismylife78

I think its a shame personally, and a sham. I find it pretty disgusting that health care and the economy are and have been front page news for several years now. Its understandable but its sad.

I find it sad, that everything I thought about Obama came true. I didnt vote for him, based largely on the fact he had no plan to pull out troops from either Iraq or Afghanistan and in fact wanted to amp up and escalate the wars. This has come true 100 percent.

I find it disgusting how there is no difference, no difference whatsoever between the democrats and republicans in this war. Both sides are bloodthirsty and the democrats continue, under Obama to cow tow to every single bill that asks for more money and more troops. Its gross.

For me, I will never truely comprehend the mentality, and by the way this is a mentality both Bush and Obama share, that wars, or terrorism specifically can be eradicated through the use of brute military force. The prevailing "wisdom" professed by Obama is that, terrorism can be stopped and that this war can be won, which of course is as mad a delusion as Bush ever had.

I will never comprehend the totality of millions of Iraqi cilivilians who have died in this war as a direct result of our bombing and our war.

I will never comprehend the fact that the troops that are lucky enough to come home alive, are our age, 18, 20's, early 30's. And they are missing arms, legs. They are paralyzed. They have trouble sleeping.

Rolling Stone profiled a returning vet, 25 years old, and he said, he wishes he was dead already, that its hard for him to sleep, or to go out in public, because every little sound, reminds them of the war.

And I will never understand the mentality of every politician in washington Obama included, who has kids, yet, without a care, without a thought, needlessly sends other parents kids off to die in a foreign land, all so the U.S. can shore up some oil interest? I mean really?

Obama, would never let Sasha and Malia sign up, yet other peoples kids, thats fine with him.

I feel it now, more than I ever have felt it ever. This was is wrong. We lost it, and it can never be won. And the troops, all of them, need to come home, yesterday.

musicismylife78

there is no military strategy under obama. None. Whats the goal? When will troops come home? When we find definitive proof of the alive or deadness of Osama? When we capture every single Taliban leader?

What constitutes the eradication of terrorism in the middle east?

And isnt the so called enemy now ordinary citizens?

If soldiers came to your home, spoke in a different language, were waving guns and bombs, and behaved in the way those soldiers did at Haditha and Abu Gharaib, wouldnt you become an insurgent?

The mindlessness of those who are in control, amazes me to no end.

musicismylife78

the "If we leave, they win" argument has been used by prowar folks since the beginning to time to justify prolonging wars. Or at least has happened in every single war, from Vietnam on.

At a certain point, the troops need to come home. What surprises me, is the lack of spine of many of our elected officials, who have done nothing, or have actively aided in the prolonging of the war, either for personal/greed issues or for fear of being branded antiamerican or antitroop.

Bush has blood on his hands, no doubt, but so does every single democrat in office, who refused, and continues to refuse to jack squat about the war and bring the damn troops home.

musicismylife78

mb262200 wrote:

Just wondering what some peoples out takes are on the war. I find it kind of sad you don't see much news on it. Death toll is very high and the number of civilian deaths is at an all time high. Not sure what to make of it. We can't just leave, because then they win, and the taliban will see that as vulnerable and attack us again....if they don't again anyways. What do people think? All the news lately is on health care and economy while we have americans fighting for there lives over sea. From what I hear they're kicking our asses in the mountains.

To be honest, I have never understood this argument. If you mb are serving thats one thing, If not, you are suggesting other people, other people our age, die in the longest war in American history, all because we wont admit a mistake and wont bring the troops home.

For me, as a radical anti war some time activist, I have noticed, in many cases those who are pro war, who are our age, and of drafting and fighting and enlisting age, most support the war, and never sign up and enlist.

If you are going to support a war, I say, if you are of age, and physically healthy, I say sign uo. It really hurts your cause if you are supporting something with words, but not deeds

Smellyman

Cosmo wrote:

Maybe we need to consider history regarding Afghanistan.
Some pretty big names have gotten in... and ran out if that place. Genghis Khan did that... so did Alexander The Great... big fucking military names. More recently, The British and in current history, the mighty Soviet Union. There is no 'backing out' occupied nations... only running out. Like we had to do in Viet Nam, the Soviets had to do in Afghanistan and the Israelis had to do in Lebennon.
I used to support the war in Afghanistan... but after 7 years of neglect, it has digressed into a real fucking mess. It's time to re-assess the pros and cons of that war and decide. I say, time has expired and we will eventually repeat the mistakes made by great military leaders... so, instead of more of our guys dying over there... let's bring them home.

round of applause....

OffHeGoes29

keeponrockin wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Winning or loosing isn't really the question, its the loss of life now or in the long run. Its something that has to be weighed out by the people who send us to war, whether to expose the lives of soldiers and civilians to harm now or do nothing and risk something more harmful in the future to not only us, but the rest of the world.

When it comes to war people have very narrow view points. Its one side or another, no inbetween, and thats why people have a hard time understanding it because the nature of it isn't black and white. Its a tricky thing to define.....

Backing out of A-stan is the worst thing we can do right now. Iraq has shown great improvement and is on a path for eventual peace, even though plently of people wanted to see it fail. No one said this was going to be a short conflict.

Oh come on....you can do better then that. :roll:

catefrances

why do some guys(who think theyre in control) think pulling out is a sign of weakness? why must they stay in and put everything at risk?

TriumphantAngel

Cosmo wrote:

Maybe we need to consider history regarding Afghanistan.
Some pretty big names have gotten in... and ran out if that place. Genghis Khan did that... so did Alexander The Great... big fucking military names. More recently, The British and in current history, the mighty Soviet Union. There is no 'backing out' occupied nations... only running out. Like we had to do in Viet Nam, the Soviets had to do in Afghanistan and the Israelis had to do in Lebennon.
I used to support the war in Afghanistan... but after 7 years of neglect, it has digressed into a real fucking mess. It's time to re-assess the pros and cons of that war and decide. I say, time has expired and we will eventually repeat the mistakes made by great military leaders... so, instead of more of our guys dying over there... let's bring them home.

^^^^^^^^
cosmo nailed it.

keeponrockin

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Winning or loosing isn't really the question, its the loss of life now or in the long run. Its something that has to be weighed out by the people who send us to war, whether to expose the lives of soldiers and civilians to harm now or do nothing and risk something more harmful in the future to not only us, but the rest of the world.

When it comes to war people have very narrow view points. Its one side or another, no inbetween, and thats why people have a hard time understanding it because the nature of it isn't black and white. Its a tricky thing to define.....

Backing out of A-stan is the worst thing we can do right now. Iraq has shown great improvement and is on a path for eventual peace, even though plently of people wanted to see it fail. No one said this was going to be a short conflict.

Oh come on....you can do better then that. :roll:

Kind of weak, I admit.

catefrances

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Winning or loosing isn't really the question, its the loss of life now or in the long run. Its something that has to be weighed out by the people who send us to war, whether to expose the lives of soldiers and civilians to harm now or do nothing and risk something more harmful in the future to not only us, but the rest of the world.

When it comes to war people have very narrow view points. Its one side or another, no inbetween, and thats why people have a hard time understanding it because the nature of it isn't black and white. Its a tricky thing to define.....

Backing out of A-stan is the worst thing we can do right now. Iraq has shown great improvement and is on a path for eventual peace, even though plently of people wanted to see it fail. No one said this was going to be a short conflict.

but milllions said neither should have been a conflict at all. but in our democracies the people were lied to, made to feel fearful and then ignored. and for what???

and if you want to go the saddam is evil and had to be removed route in regards to iraq then i will say he could have been removed without an all out invasion.

Cosmo

keeponrockin wrote:

Kind of weak, I admit.

...
But, it was a FUCKING GREAT Photo Op...
IF...
the war had gone as originally scripted.
Greeted as liberators... insurgency crushed in its final throes... troops come home... ticker tape parade in new York... solemn speach at Ground Zero.
...
Too bad those fucking Iraqis blew their lines and shot the whole thing to Hell.

Byrnzie

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Iraq has shown great improvement and is on a path for eventual peace, even though plently of people wanted to see it fail

It's not surprising that things have quietened down a bit after you've murdered over 1 million civilians, and driven 5 million of them out of the country.

OffHeGoes29

Say all you want, but you know we aren't leaving anytime soon.

catefrances

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Say all you want, but you know we aren't leaving anytime soon.

yeah we know and mores the pity.

soulsinging

war? what is it good for? absolutely nothing!

that's what.